Christians, Christians, Christians, Will You Ever Learn?

[Artisi]

What a waste of the time and money - meeting after meeting , review after review - all about what - obsolutely nothing - a non event and who cares - seems only the normal self-interest groups without anything better to do.

Why don't they put their energy into something constructive - like feed a few more homeless kids.

[Plus]

Every religion protects its followers from intentionally misleading presentations. True followers won't be swayed, true, but the majority simply are not that strong.

In case of Thailand there's another dimension - for most people it would be their first encounter with Christianity and its doctrines, and the first impression is always the strongest.

If Columbia's proposal is accepted it would be the best outcome for all.

[Griffin]

The Da Vinci code is a gripping yarn under the heading of FICTION. To attempt to ban it as it pokes fun at another work of fiction, the Bible, shows how out of touch the 'church' is. If they put as much effort into doing something worthwile I'd be less critical of Religion. It is easy to stamp and shout but not so easy to feed the hungry.

If someone belives in Jesus and blah blah blah then it's up to them if they wish to waste their time but don't tamper with my viewing pleasure.

I read this yesterday and am disgusted that they have got thier way.

As other posters have noted, can you imagine the carnage if this was about Mohammed. Goes to show where civilised people come from.

[cclub75]

Colombia Pictures appeals cut on "The Da Vinci Code"

Columbia Pictures in Thailand on Wednesday appealed a ruling by Thai censorship board to cut the final 10 minutes of ``The Da Vinci Code'' film, police said on Wednesday.

Now it's getting interesting. They want to fight back. Good !

And the "case" should go to justice. Because, this "ban" has absolutly no juridic ground and put a shame on the whole country.

It's just a discussion between 3 Somchai (one budhist, one christian, the other one well we don't know because he is a cop).

It goes like that.

-Sabai dee ?

-Sabai mai chai. This movie not good. I want you to ban it.

-Oh really ? OK khrap. No problem. You want 1 or 2 sugar in your cup of tea ? I've got an idea, we keep movie but we cut the end, so everybody is happy. Great isn't it ?

Anyway, they should postpone the movie, while make an appeal in a proper court, and launch some charges against the thai mind police.

Columbia Pictures is not the small outlet or company that you can intimidate by "decisions", totally groundless. This movie is big money... They will fight. I believe Somchai is going to eat his hat pretty quickly.

[marquess]

Colombia Pictures appeals cut on "The Da Vinci Code"

Columbia Pictures in Thailand on Wednesday appealed a ruling by Thai censorship board to cut the final 10 minutes of ``The Da Vinci Code'' film, police said on Wednesday.

Now it's getting interesting. They want to fight back. Good !

And the "case" should go to justice. Because, this "ban" has absolutly no juridic ground and put a shame on the whole country.

It's just a discussion between 3 Somchai (one budhist, one christian, the other one well we don't know because he is a cop).

It goes like that.

-Sabai dee ?

-Sabai mai chai. This movie not good. I want you to ban it.

-Oh really ? OK khrap. No problem. You want 1 or 2 sugar in your cup of tea ? I've got an idea, we keep movie but we cut the end, so everybody is happy. Great isn't it ?

Anyway, they should postpone the movie, while make an appeal in a proper court, and launch some charges against the thai mind police.

Columbia Pictures is not the small outlet or company that you can intimidate by "decisions", totally groundless. This movie is big money... They will fight. I believe Somchai is going to eat his hat pretty quickly.

If they lose the appeal, they should withdraw the film out of spite! So as to highlight the narrow mindedness of the Thai gov, and the general attitude towards censorship here, which seems to be getting worst and worst. Then perhaps it might make people sit up and think a bit more!

[penzman]

Colombia Pictures appeals cut on "The Da Vinci Code"

Columbia Pictures in Thailand on Wednesday appealed a ruling by Thai censorship board to cut the final 10 minutes of ``The Da Vinci Code'' film, police said on Wednesday.

The movie censors had ordered the cut following a meeting Tuesday with a coalition of Thai Christian groups protesting the content of the film.

"The (censorship) committee has ordered that final 10 minutes of the movie be cut, but the company appealed, so the committee is reconsidering again,'' Pol Lt Col Veera Dhethayu of the movie censor board told Associated Press.

Controversial Hollywood film "The Da Vinci Code" is scheduled to lauch on Thursday.

The decision by the Registration Division, which comes under the Police Department, was reached after a two-hour meeting at the division between officials from four Christian groups, a censorship committee under the division and officials from Columbia Pictures, which produced the film.

Chawana Phawakanant, a member of the censorship panel, said on Tuesday the final scenes in the film would be cut because they would have affected the faith of Christians. The panel also made a ruling on a number of conditions needed to be complied with by Columbia Pictures.

"A portion of the Thai subtitles deemed inappropriate would also be re-edited and there will be an explanation in Thai put on screen before the film begins telling viewers that the film is based on fiction," said Chawana, an academic in the mass journalism field.

Manoch Jaengmuk, chairman of the Evangelical Fellowship of Thailand, said certain scriptures in the Bible would also be displayed on screen both before the film begins and at the end.

The Christian groups will decide soon which scriptures will be chosen for the special screening.

AP and The Nation

A decision was reached after a two hour meeting? The average movie is an hour and a half long so this decision was taken lets say within half an hour IF they did screen the movie? It would make sense IF everything around us had been created in 7 days...

[jdinasia]

why would they screen the movie? They'd take it from the experts that it was objectionable and listen to the other side (Colunbia) and make a crappy decision

[PREM-R]

It will be on sale in Thailand, uncut, on DVD and VCD in a few days so who cares. If you want to see the movie, go and buy it in Patpong

[OlRedEyes]

I probably agree completely with suegha on this issue, and let me take off my moderator's dunce cap for this thread, since I've got an opinion.

1. This kind of thread, about Christianity, is a delight for the bashers of ALL organized religion, including the Buddhist religion. Go back and look at how some of these outrageously hateful posts are bashing Buddhism without saying so. In my not so humble opinion.

2. If you or your loved ones were raped by priests or fiddled by ministers, my heart goes out to you. If, however, you merely reached adulthood with a rabid, raging hatred for Christianity, I have no sympathies for your hatred. Some bashers of religion have their own super-evangelical cause of bashing all religion. In other words, your religion is to hate all the others, which makes your belief no better than those you criticize.

3. Christianity, and several other religions, have made countless inexcusable errors as organized religions. We make no efforts to excuse those errors; we condemn those errors, realizing that we, too, are sinners.

4. Billions of sane, rational, decent, more or less moral, reasonably educated people in the world follow religions that are 'organized.' Many of these believers are not devout, but so what? Most of these believers are not fervent spreaders of their faith. Most Christians who are evangelicals do very little personal evangelism. Evangelists are, in fact, a very small portion of the professional Christians.

5. Take the Bible, or leave it alone, or bash it if you wish. I have just as much 'right' to criticize your hatred of religious teachings, as you have to criticize religion. Non-Christian nations tend to attract expatriates who hate Christianity, and Thailand is generous to allow you here, so long as you don't specifically disparage Buddhism. Again, IMNSHO, I think some of the comments on this thread do so.

6. The "daVinci Code." I've not bothered to read it, and don't know if I'll bother to watch the movie (especially the censored one). I don't read much fiction, although I write a lot of it lately, including this post. It's just a movie, for goodness' sake. Am I concerned that it threatens my belief? No. Am I scared to see it, for fear that it will challenge my faith? No. My faith is challenged daily by participating in online forums, especially in Thailand.

7. Personally, I think the Thai Christian organizations over-reacted. However, they didn't ask for the recent movie based on the Chronicles of Narnia to be censored, did they? As if any child watching the Narnia movie would even understand it's a Christian allegory. The protestors have a point, that some Thais will watch the movie without reading the Bible, but that's not the fault of the non-Christian Thais. INMNSOpinion, evangelicals and missionaries in Thailand should present the message about the Prince of Peace in a better manner, including a manner that stresses that Jesus was a pacifist, and they need to denounce all bloodshed that was ever shed in the name of Jesus. In my overly arrogant opinion.

Okay, please carry on, bashing all you wish, although I seriously doubt that some of the comments do justice to the practice of Buddhism in this Kingdom. And, God bless you all.

The problem is that religion doesn't just 'do its own thing', it CONSTANTLY forces itself and its aims on everybody, in a multitude of ways. I have no hatred of religions, I am sick of it constricting and affecting my life, constantly and seriously.

Religion gets away with invading everybody's rights because it demands respect. If I say anything, I become a target. Free speech and free thought is not allowed.

I don't bash religions. If you wanna believe, enjoy. Just keep it to yourselves, and out of my life and out of my face. I will not respect your religion, how can I respect something that appears so absolutely stupid to me? I'll respect your right to believe whatever you want.

And I'll gracefully decline your gods blessing, thanks.

I am, as the expression from my part of the woods goes, simply 'gatvol'.

Edited May 17, 2006 by OlRedEyes

[Jai Dee]

Censors agree to cut ‘The Da Vinci Code’

Christian groups in the country failed to have the controversial Hollywood thriller The Da Vinci Code banned but managed yesterday to get the Censorship Committee to agree to cut the last scene.

Sony Pictures Thailand, the distributor of the film, is appealing the decision. The film was due to open here tomorrow but an unsuccessful appeal may lead to a delay.

At a press conference yesterday, Christian organizations denounced The Da Vinci Code as a film that “distorts the Holy Bible and [is] deceitful.”

Some well-known Thai-Christian personalities participated in the conference.

Christian groups said they wanted to separate fact from fiction before people headed to the theaters here, as the population is predominantly comprised of Buddhists with little knowledge of Christianity who could be misled by the movie.

The Da Vinci Code, based on Dan Brown’s international best-seller, speculates that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and that the bloodline continues to this day, a fact that the Catholic Church has been trying to conceal, according to the storyline.

The movie has triggered outrage among Christians worldwide who have been calling for a ban or boycott.

“We accept the movie as an entertainment product, but we do not accept the content,” said Thongchai Pradabchananutrat, a priest who heads the Bangkok-based Baptist Student Center. “The content is wrong from the beginning. It assumes that Jesus is not God anymore. It crosses the line.”

Thai-Christians who attended the press conference yesterday said that the producers had crossed the line when they promoted the movie as “the truth about Jesus Christ and Christianity.”

“We have to come out to protect our faith, [because] they said that God did not die for us, that he had a wife,” said Anchalee Jungchadeekij, the well-known singer who converted to Christianity 14 years ago.

“It’s up to people to decide, but the movie will have to pass censorship.”

Boyd Kosiyabhung, a famous music producer who decided to come because he heard that the film had distorted the facts, said he was afraid the campaign would backfire. “I think it might make people want to see the movie more.”

Sony Pictures had earlier agreed to change some Thai subtitles that were deemed offensive by Christian groups and added a message at the beginning of the movie stating that it was just a work of fiction.

The original version has a similar message at the end of the movie, said Arm Chareonsiri, marketing director for Sony Pictures Thailand.

“I am not sure what is going to happen, but I don’t think they [the Censorship Committee] are going to cut [the last scene],” he said.

“We are negotiating with the Christian groups...we will try to help them distribute books and brochures clarifying fact and fiction in the movie.”

Source: ThaiDay - 17 May 2006

[Plus]

Don't forget that this movie (and the book, of course) feeds on religion. If JC was a nobody it wouldn't sell a copy.

Dan Brown and Columbia didn't think twice about making money of somebody else's religion, but when Christians protests it suddenly becomes an issue of "invading everybody's rights".

[jdinasia]

HUH? I don't follow that Plus ......

the book COULD pissoff the right wing CATHOLICS ... but not anyone else .....

after all the HRCC and pus Dei are real ... they could get offended ....

the rest is just supposition .... it doesn't state that none of the concepts are impossible in the Bible ... so?

Edited May 17, 2006 by jdinasia

[rainman]

why didn't they go ahead and ban "Ice Age" and "Ice Age 2" as well? i mean, those movies were the first encounters for many thais with ice as well, so they should have cut the scenes where ice ages happen within 90 minutes and then dissapear again in 90 minutes as well...

and why not cut King Kong out, too ....

[Scott]

Does anybody know if there are any countries that are actually banning the movie?

[PREM-R]

(Thongchai Pradabchananutrat, a priest )"It (the film) assumes that Jesus is not God anymore. It crosses the line"

It's along time since I went to Sunday School but as I remember the story went that Jesus was never God, he was the Son of God but Thongchai is a Priest and I'm just a farang.

[lomatopo]

Does anybody know if there are any countries that are actually banning the movie?

The film is being shown in Singapore unedited/uncensored, although it is carrying a NC16 rating, so no one under the age of 16.

Has the book been published in Thai?

Edited to add:

In Singapore, the censorship board has cleared the movie for screening despite a church group's request for it to be banned, but gave the movie a NC16 rating _ those under 16 are not permitted to view it.

The Movie and Television Review and Classification Board in the Philippines approved the movie. ''I don't think it [showing the movie] will have any adverse affect on our religion,' said Condoliza La Guardia, chairman of the board.

Edited May 17, 2006 by lomatopo

[jdinasia]

yes it has ... I have the book in Thai

[Plus]

If Christianity was a Thai political party, they'd sue Columbia for label.

[NguuMuu]

Christian groups in the country failed to have the controversial Hollywood thriller The Da Vinci Code banned but managed yesterday to get the Censorship Committee to agree to cut the last scene.

Well, I was interested in seeing this movie in the theater, but if this goes through it looks like I'll just have to buy a bootleg off the street. I know a lot of imported movies are edited to meet Thai 'cultural standards', but it seems to me cutting off the final, 10 minute scene of a thriller movie would kind of ruin it...

I could be wrong, but I'd bet the Western countries with the highest population density of Christians are still showing the movie in it's original form. Here a minority of Christians somehow seem to have a lot of influence.

[jdinasia]

If Christianity was a Thai political party, they'd sue Columbia for label.

Liibel? ... no ... it is not Libelous ... it is fiction. The Opus Dei sect didn't even sue ... it made people that are Catholic and actually BELIEVE get interested enough to find out about them ... membership went UP!

Plus does this movie upset you? If so have you read the book or seen the movie? If not then WHY does it upset you?

<most people that react to this I wouldn't bother to ask ... but I actually respect Plus's political views

Edited May 17, 2006 by jdinasia

[Scott]

It's not about influence. It's more about stupid reactions. Someone requests it be banned because it is offensive and the board instead of banning it just plain ruins it for everyone.

[t.s]

Well I'm a Bible believing Christian who thinks we (Christians) should not be in the least bit bothered about something like this. It's fiction, I know it's fiction, it will only strengthen me in my faith.

Myth and fable being believed by many in the latter days is predicted in the bible, so this movie, and other things like it, is fulfilling bible prophesy! So why should any Christian be bothered?

Trying to ban something, whether it be a pop song or a movie, ensures its commercial sucess.

In these later days many people view religious literature such as the Bible, teachings of Buddha, and the Koran as myth and fable.

This is much the same as the fate of the Grecco-Roman Pantheon, which was once belived to exist with a devotion similar to if not more pronounced than that with which many embrace their faith today.

what i don't understand is that dan brown's is a poorly written fiction that actually gives the bible life as a great literary work based in "fact". The church should be grateful for any resurgence of interest in Christ that it causes. Buddha was a man, Christ was a man, Mohammed was a man, all three acheived a higher level of spiritual enlightenment.

What does it matter if an an American writer of bad thrillers claims Christ got laid along the way?

I would hope he did.

edited to capitalse the names that should be capitalised

Edited May 17, 2006 by t.s

[PeaceBlondie]

The movie would have been banned entirely if it was titled,

"The King of Kings and I."

[jdinasia]

Well I'm a Bible believing Christian who thinks we (Christians) should not be in the least bit bothered about something like this. It's fiction, I know it's fiction, it will only strengthen me in my faith.

Myth and fable being believed by many in the latter days is predicted in the bible, so this movie, and other things like it, is fulfilling bible prophesy! So why should any Christian be bothered?

Trying to ban something, whether it be a pop song or a movie, ensures its commercial sucess.

In these later days many people view religious literature such as the Bible, teachings of Buddha, and the Koran as myth and fable.

This is much the same as the fate of the Grecco-Roman Pantheon, which was once belived to exist with a devotion similar to if not more pronounced than that with which many embrace their faith today.

what i don't understand is that dan brown's is a poorly written fiction that actually gives the bible life as a great literary work based in "fact". The church should be grateful for any resurgence of interest in Christ that it causes. Buddha was a man, Christ was a man, Mohammed was a man, all three acheived a higher level of spiritual enlightenment.

What does it matter if an an American writer of bad thrillers claims Christ got laid along the way?

I would hope he did.

edited to capitalse the names that should be capitalised

t.s.

the "latter days" that suegha was referring to are the days claimed in revalations .... what uegha may not have known is that every generation since about 64ad has claimed that the world was in its last days

[Prasert]

Can you tell us some of the wars that have resulted from Buddhism?

To my knowledge: none.

That is one of the main reasons why I do respect Buddhists. Strictly speaking Buddhism might not be a religion, since there is no god, so it's more a way of life built on respect.

In the end, it all comes down to this:

A man and his faith are one and the same. The unknown exists. Each men projects on this emptyness his own vision, shaped to his own personal ideals and assumptions.

The faithful man who explains his religion, is basically explaining himself. If a fanatic is told or proven otherwise, he will feel threatened in his existence.

Countless religious leaders did exactly this, as was described by PeaceBlondie:

3. Christianity, and several other religions, have made countless inexcusable errors as organized religions. We make no efforts to excuse those errors; we condemn those errors, realizing that we, too, are sinners.

The next (inexcusable) error is happening now: trying to ban this movie because the christians feel it threatens their existence. They don't want you to judge for yourself.

If this movie was about Muhammed, the errors would be even more inexcusable. Just think of the riots and all the deads resulting from a caricature in a Danish newspaper. Several months later these caricatures finally made it to the middle east, accompanied by 3 other caricatures from outside Danmark.

Not a single muslim dared questioning the origins, they blindly trusted their reli-fanatic leaders. Result: violence. I don't think Christians will use violence, but Muslims can find numerous reasons in the koran to justify it. Just look at the south of Thailand.

If you truly believe in God, be honest to yourself and be just as critical on the Da Vinci Code as on the Bible. Don't just look at the Maria Magdalena and Sarah issue (as told by your religious leaders), but take a look at the whole message in the book, just like you look at the whole message in the Bible.

[PETERTHEEATER]

I now look forward to the Thai Christian group campaigning to ban the 'celebration' of Halloween in Thailand. Or is devil worship OK?

[Plus]

I haven't seen the movie, only the trailer, and it looks nothing like the book, more in MI3 genre. I think it will be apocriphal to any book fan. I quite enjoyed reading it, btw.

As for sensorship issue, I just don't think jumping on Christians here is fair. They are right in their demands to put a large disclaimer where the book deviates from the Bible version. It might be obvious in the West, but here you need to tell people that according to Christianity Jesus wasn't married, they might get wrong ideas.

If the local audience was as mature as in the West, Christians would probably thanked the movie for reviving the interest. Some catholics did, according to reports.

Libel, slander, fact, fiction - Thai politicos would sue Columbia anyway.

Interestingly, how many kids think that early humans, mammoths and dinosaurs lived at the same time after watching Ice Age?

There was an uproar in the US when some scientists presented a documentary on NBC that questioned evolution timeline.

[jdinasia]

I haven't seen the movie, only the trailer, and it looks nothing like the book, more in MI3 genre. I think it will be apocriphal to any book fan. I quite enjoyed reading it, btw.

As for sensorship issue, I just don't think jumping on Christians here is fair. They are right in their demands to put a large disclaimer where the book deviates from the Bible version. It might be obvious in the West, but here you need to tell people that according to Christianity Jesus wasn't married, they might get wrong ideas.

Thanks for responding! The jerks jumping on Christians are just wrong ... not issue with that ... a Disclaimer? ... no problem with that either!! .... As for Jesus being married or not ... the Bible didn't mention it one way or the other! There are about 30 years missing in the Bible about the life of Christ. He was born ... he appears once when he was about 12 for one story then there's the last 3 years of his life. Back then it would have been normal for a man to have been married for YEARS before he was 30. So yes it is "historical fiction but plausible ... it would be a good idea to say that in the disclaimer too huh

If the local audience was as mature as in the West, Christians would probably thanked the movie for reviving the interest. Some catholics did, according to reports.

I don't think that Thais are stupid OR babies ... so the censorship is stupid ...

Libel, slander, fact, fiction - Thai politicos would sue Columbia anyway.

Interestingly, how many kids think that early humans, mammoths and dinosaurs lived at the same time after watching Ice Age?

Ummm there are no Dinosaurs in Ice Age ... and Humans and Mammoths DID exist at the same time

There was an uproar in the US when some scientists presented a documentary on NBC that questioned evolution timeline.

Pretty much anyone with a BRAIN laughed at that ... though there are people STILL trying to promote the teaching of "Creation science" in public schools

[jdinasia]

I now look forward to the Thai Christian group campaigning to ban the 'celebration' of Halloween in Thailand. Or is devil worship OK?

Devil worship? on All Hallows Eve? better do a bit of research on that and All Saints Day .... <Pagan traditions subverted INTO Christianity? Yes ... Devil worship? No

Plus it is in Thai tradition ------ Loei

Everyone loves a good ghost story. The gruesome, the spiritual and the supernatural arouse an instinctive curiosity in all of us. In the west, ghostly fervor reaches a peak with Halloween on October 31. In Thailand, the spirit-world comes closest to us in June with the Phi Ta Khon festival, an event filled with fun, mischief and of course, a touch of the unknown.

The Phi Ta Khon Festival is quite unique to Thailand and unrivalled by any other ghost festival. Held in Dan Sai district of Loei province, about 450 km north of Bangkok, Phi Ta Khon is part of a Buddhist merit-making holiday known locally as 'Bun Pha Ves.' The precise origin of Phi Ta Khon is unclear. But it is believed that the roots of the festival revolve around an important tale of the Buddha's last life, before he reached nirvana.

According to Buddhist folklore, the Buddha-to-be was born as Prince Vessandorn, a generous man who gave freely to the people. One day, he gave away a white elephant, a royal creature, revered as a symbol of rain. The townspeople were so angry for fear of drought and famine, that they banished the prince into exile.

The prince left the village for a very long journey. Finally, the king and the people got over their anger and recalled him to the city. When he eventually returned, his people were overjoyed. They welcomed him back with a celebration so loud that even the dead were awakened from their slumbers to join in the festivities.

source .... Thailand dot com

I'll be there this year for the festival

Edited May 17, 2006 by jdinasia

[rainman]

lets face it, Dan Brown did write the novel as if it was a real story. but that's also what makes the book as good. true or not, i've read it and i think its one of the best books i've read in many years. but how after 2000+ years can we know for sure who Jesus was and what he really did? surely he didn't walk on water or have an endless supply of fish in his basket, stories get told and re-told over the years and everyone changes it a little and adds a bit here and there. why is it that we're only allowed to hear one side of the story and not someone else's point of view?