Rubber SHoes In Shower

[Spoonman]

So will a rubber mat from Homepro save from an electric shock?

Only if your wearing your tin foil hat.

[VocalNeal]

Can't drive for fear of being one of the 200 or so road death statistics and now can't have a shower. Have to ask why some people come here in the first place?

[mogandave]

WE do have a ground rod made of copper but it is only about 1m long. The shower also has some built in circuit breaker or something. Maybe I am paranoid but still don't feel totally relaxed in the hot shoer.

The ground rod is likely copper-clad steel, as copper is too soft to drive in.

Is it a point of use heater or a whole house heater? Regardless, assuming the rod is driven in all the way (and is tight) and the heater is properly grounded to the rod, you should be okay.

A rubber mat is to prevent slipping, not electrocution. Think about it, ceramic tile is likely a better insulator than a rubber mat or slippers.

The breaker does nothing to stop from being shocked, although if the shock is strong enough and long enough it could pop off.

[somchaismith]

I think that the Op has a valid point as many deaths, through electrocution, occur in poorly earthed Thailand showers.

One case in mind is,

A Swedish couple have died after apparently being electrocuted while taking a shower together in a hotel room in Thailand. The 23 year-old woman and the 25 year-old man were found dead on Saturday 2nd April by their friends from a neighbouring room, who rushed in after hearing a scream.

“One of the friends ran in, but found both of them dead. When she tried to revive her friend, she received an electric shock,” a family friend told the Aftonbladet newspaper.

http://www.icenews.is/2011/04/15/couple-die-in-shower-electrocution/

[kriswillems]

WE do have a ground rod made of copper but it is only about 1m long. The shower also has some built in circuit breaker or something. Maybe I am paranoid but still don't feel totally relaxed in the hot shoer.

If more than 10mA flows via your body to the ground the earth leak protection in the electric shower will switch off (if it's not broken or disabled). Normally you'll not die from this.

If you have a good ground rot, the earth leak protection will switch off even before the current can flow through your body (because the current will flow to the ground rot).

It's also important to have an earth-leak protection for your entire house, in case the one of your shower wouldn't work and to protect the rest of your house.

You should test your ground rot. 1m works in most cases, but not always. Testing requires equipment. It might be cheaper to add a second rot if you feel unsafe.

Shoes or mats will not help anything.

Edited December 31, 2013 by kriswillems

[cooked]

So , excuse me, what the hell is a ground rot?

Sent from my GT-S7500 using Tapatalk 2

[kriswillems]

So , excuse me, what the hell is a ground rot? Sent from my GT-S7500 using Tapatalk 2

sorry should be "Ground rod" (you can google it).

[kriswillems]

The problem may be when the water is running through the pipes and making a weak Ground/Earth connection, this was the case in a house I stayed at.

I'd try and find the fault when not using the shower with a voltmeter but everything seemed normal...

Only when I was in the shower and the water was running would I feel electrical tingles from the metal taps etc.

Water is a very poor conductor so the shocks were not serious, but the only way to end it once and for all was to run a proper electrical earth to ground, problem solved..

I don't think rubber shoes would have helped in my case.

What you describe here is very frightening. You should not feel any tingling feeling when you take a shower, with or without ground wire.

The problem might be an electrical leak to your water system, probably in the heater of your shower, or you or bad neighbors might use the water system as ground wire (like many Thai people do) - this is very dangerous.

Even if you would give me 1 million I wouldn't want to take a shower in your house.

Water may be not an excellent conductor, but as a conductor it's more than good enough to instantly kill you.

If you get 100mA through your body you get a serious, dangerous shock.

A small flow of water will easily let that 100mA pass (on 220V).

Edited December 31, 2013 by kriswillems

[kikoman]

We have three showers in our home each one of them with an individual ground rod also my freezer has its own ground rod and we built the house and installed a Square D circuit breaker, have not had any problems.

Cheers

[mogandave]

I have a whole-house heater grounded to a copper cold water pipe, no problem here either.

I think people getting killed in the shower is a result of exposed/defective wiring, not a little leakage.

[bonobo]

All my water heaters are ELB, and everything is individually grounded. Yet I still never get in the shower before turning on the water, and I always test it by bending my arm and sticking my elbow in the water first. If I were to get a shock, the motion cause by the electrical jolt should throw me out of the path of the water.

I don't remember who it was, but several years ago, one poster here on ThaiVisa posted that most deaths occur when a person is shocked, then falls down, unable to move while more and more electricity flows through him. I don't know if that is an absolute fact, but it makes sense to me.

[mogandave]

Why not get a gas-fired heater and be done with it?

[PeterSmiles]

I have a whole-house heater grounded to a copper cold water pipe, no problem here either.

I think people getting killed in the shower is a result of exposed/defective wiring, not a little leakage.

Excuse my ignorance, but you ground a waterheater to a water pipe that is direct or indirect connected to the waterheater.

So if you get a power leakage, the current it is send back into the heater.

[bonobo]

I have a whole-house heater grounded to a copper cold water pipe, no problem here either.

I think people getting killed in the shower is a result of exposed/defective wiring, not a little leakage.

Excuse my ignorance, but you ground a waterheater to a water pipe that is direct or indirect connected to the waterheater.

So if you get a power leakage, the current it is send back into the heater.

I am glad someone else asked that. I was wondering about the very same thing.

[mogandave]

I have a whole-house heater grounded to a copper cold water pipe, no problem here either.

I think people getting killed in the shower is a result of exposed/defective wiring, not a little leakage.

Excuse my ignorance, but you ground a waterheater to a water pipe that is direct or indirect connected to the waterheater.

So if you get a power leakage, the current it is send back into the heater.

It does seem odd, but to be clear, 40 meters of under-ground copper pipe provides a much better ground than one meter of copper-clad steel hammered in.

[PeterSmiles]

I have a whole-house heater grounded to a copper cold water pipe, no problem here either.

I think people getting killed in the shower is a result of exposed/defective wiring, not a little leakage.

Excuse my ignorance, but you ground a waterheater to a water pipe that is direct or indirect connected to the waterheater.

So if you get a power leakage, the current it is send back into the heater.

It does seem odd, but to be clear, 40 meters of under-ground copper pipe provides a much better ground than one meter of copper-clad steel hammered in.

I don't doubt that, but since electricity doesn't has a direction it takes the shortest way, which is back into the water heater .

[mogandave]

I have a whole-house heater grounded to a copper cold water pipe, no problem here either.

I think people getting killed in the shower is a result of exposed/defective wiring, not a little leakage.

Excuse my ignorance, but you ground a waterheater to a water pipe that is direct or indirect connected to the waterheater.

So if you get a power leakage, the current it is send back into the heater.

It does seem odd, but to be clear, 40 meters of under-ground copper pipe provides a much better ground than one meter of copper-clad steel hammered in.

I don't doubt that, but since electricity doesn't has a direction it takes the shortest way, which is back into the water heater .

What is the difference between connecting a wire from the heater to a ground rod and hooking the same wire to a cold water pipe?

[kriswillems]

In the scenario described, a 40 meters underground copper pipe, the pipe can work as a ground and the ELB will switch of in case of a leak.

You have to look it this way:

10A enters the ELB

10A-10mA goes to the electrical heating element, and flows through the NULL wire.

10mA flows via the copper tube to the ground because of a leak (and doesn't pass the NULL on his way back).

The current will not flow through your body because the resistance between the piping and the ground is very low.

The difference in current in the 2 wires passing (phase and NULL) the ELB is 10mA.

So the ELB will switch off.

Please understand that this is really exceptional case as most people don't have 40 meters underground copper piping.

So, the easiest flow of the current might be through your body to the ground.

Normally you should never use your water system as a ground.

Many Thai people do it and in most cases it is very dangerous.

The reason it is dangerous, is that all leaks of all devices in your house will end up in the water system.

So, if your fridge has an earth leak, you'll feel it in your shower!

Edited January 1, 2014 by kriswillems

[kriswillems]

We have three showers in our home each one of them with an individual ground rod also my freezer has its own ground rod and we built the house and installed a Square D circuit breaker, have not had any problems.

Cheers

Good, but you need an earth leak switch. Do you have one?

People underestimate the importance of am earth leak switch.

If it comes to saving lifes it's much more efficient than having (only) a ground wire.

With only a ground wire you need a very strong leak for your breaker to switch off.

A small leak can kill a human and your circuit breaker will not switch off.

Please note that if your house has a 3 phase electric system, there's a big chance you don't have an earth leak switch, because 3 phase earth leak switches are produced outside Thailand and are expensive.

Edited January 1, 2014 by kriswillems

[kriswillems]

Most cases where people die from electrocution at home are not because the shock is so strong, but it's because they can't move.

In the seconds after the shock your muscles are hard as a stone, you can't move, so you can't get out of the shower because there's a continuous flow of current. The hart will be the last muscle that stops working and you don't get oxygen to your brain - you die.

A big percentage of people getting electrocuted at home dies from drowning. They get a shock, can't move, fall into the water in their bath or the water on the street (in case of flood) and drown.

Edited January 1, 2014 by kriswillems

[MrGaoMungGawn]

The problem may be when the water is running through the pipes and making a weak Ground/Earth connection, this was the case in a house I stayed at.

I'd try and find the fault when not using the shower with a voltmeter but everything seemed normal...

Only when I was in the shower and the water was running would I feel electrical tingles from the metal taps etc.

Water is a very poor conductor so the shocks were not serious, but the only way to end it once and for all was to run a proper electrical earth to ground, problem solved..

I don't think rubber shoes would have helped in my case.

Yes, this was my experience too.

And it really is spooky.

I got rid of that unit.

Better to put in a hot water tank, which I did.

Or locate the hot water heater, the electric one, outside of the shower area with a long PVC pipe going to the shower head.

Would that not be safer?

Then you could make fine adjustments to the temperature by decreasing increasing water flow rate.

[kriswillems]

The distance between the water heater and the shower head, will not make any difference.

PS. You have to control the volume of flow of the (flow-through-type)water heater at the input side of the heater, if you would try control it at the output, the heater will explode and there's a high chance on an earth leak. So, when you move the heater away from the shower, you should be aware of this.

[Naam]

Rubber shower mat, Homepro.

The question was whether or not rubber would save from an electric shock.

no it does not. reason: water is conductive.

[MrGaoMungGawn]

Rubber shower mat, Homepro.

The question was whether or not rubber would save from an electric shock.

no it does not. reason: water is conductive.

Pure water is not conductive, any more than other non conducting materials.

[kriswillems]

Rubber shower mat, Homepro.

The question was whether or not rubber would save from an electric shock.

no it does not. reason: water is conductive.

Pure water is not conductive, any more than other non conducting materials.

True, but the water coming from your shower is not pure water, it's mixed with minerals and CO2. It's more than conductive enough to instantly kill you.

Pure water is hard to produce and very unstable, in contact with air, it would immediately change into "normal water". Also pure water is very corrosive, you would get burned by using it.

[Satcommlee]

A lot of debate here on the conductivity of water, which is pointless!

In my scenario the water conducted enough to give me worrying tingles when I touched the taps, enough for me to take action and get it Earthed properly.

Water and electricity don't mix.. simple as that!

Pure/distilled water is indeed a very bad conductor but we won't be coming across that in Thailand unfortunately.

[Kangawallafox]

Maybe,just don't use your hair dryer in the show,it can have dire consequences.

[Forethat]

A lot of debate here on the conductivity of water, which is pointless!

In my scenario the water conducted enough to give me worrying tingles when I touched the taps, enough for me to take action and get it Earthed properly.

Water and electricity don't mix.. simple as that!

Pure/distilled water is indeed a very bad conductor but we won't be coming across that in Thailand unfortunately.

The WATER conducted enough to give you worrying tingles when you touched the TAPS...?

[tjansen]

A lot of debate here on the conductivity of water, which is pointless!

In my scenario the water conducted enough to give me worrying tingles when I touched the taps, enough for me to take action and get it Earthed properly.

Water and electricity don't mix.. simple as that!

Pure/distilled water is indeed a very bad conductor but we won't be coming across that in Thailand unfortunately.

My experience was similar to Satcommlee's. I live in an apartment. I started feeling a slight tingle when I touched the tap, with water on. I reported it to the management. They knew exactly what I meant, and they had an electrician run a ground wire from the heater unit (inside the unit) back to the main electrical panel (the one that serves all of the apartments on my floor). I don't feel the tingle anymore.