Are you an Atheist/Believer?

[StreetCowboy]

 

I was reading this thread and thought boy, there a lot of dumb people posting here. So I thought up 4 questions that are common knowledge in Poughkeepsie, New York and I thought I'd ask them of you all.

What flag is flying over Parliament on the Canadian two dollar bill?

How long is a goldfish's memory span?

What is the longest English word typed with the left hand?

Does an Australian crocodile lick it's lips after eating an American?

<deleted>?

At least the "dumb posters" here can stay on topic.

The above are things you think intelligent people know or care about?

Well, maybe in New York it's considered intelligent.

Should a drunk New Yorker post on TV?

Another no brainer question for your list.

 

God could've helped you cope with such stupidity, if you'd let him.

[Nayet]

If we are talking about an intervening, caring God who created the universe with humanity in mind, then I am a 7 for all intents and purposes.

[thailauren]

Some readers may find darkmatter2525 an interesting channel on youtube

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[tingtongteesood]

Door number 7 for me.

[Neeranam]

Many people I know seem to be proud that they are an atheist and that God is for the weak. IN my experience it is the other way around.

Simply, I think that religion is for those who don't want to go to Hell but spirituality is for those who have already been there.

[OmegaRacer]

Another thing I'd like to add.

War don't stem from religions. It might look so on the surface, but if you look closer you'll find that the origin of all wars is fear. Fear of the unknown, the different, the 'other'.

People have been killed in the name of religions just as much as atheist governments did (i.e. Russia and China).

It's not the belief in the presence or the absence of a higher power in a society that brings peace. It's knowing yourself and thus knowing that in the end you're not different from all other people. The vast majority of people in the world have your same desires and needs.

[thailiketoo]

I was reading this thread and thought boy, there a lot of dumb people posting here. So I thought up 4 questions that are common knowledge in Poughkeepsie, New York and I thought I'd ask them of you all.

What flag is flying over Parliament on the Canadian two dollar bill?

How long is a goldfish's memory span?

What is the longest English word typed with the left hand?

Does an Australian crocodile lick it's lips after eating an American?

<deleted>?

At least the "dumb posters" here can stay on topic.

The above are things you think intelligent people know or care about?

Well, maybe in New York it's considered intelligent.

Should a drunk New Yorker post on TV?

Another no brainer question for your list.

Actually it was on topic in a Zen way. I posted questions that actually have answers.

I think it was Maxim, the guy who invented the machine gun, who wrote about his travels in China in the 1800's and mentioned the Chinese people he talked to were surprised to find Eupoeans could invent such modern marvels and still believe in ghosts.

My point was if a Chinese person read this thread he would say there are people who believe in Ghosts discussing with people who don't believe in ghosts; why. And one person posted questions that were stupid but actually had answers.

[hellodolly]

Interesting that the OP left the door open by giving a definition of a God that many might agree with or disagree with. I would have to have a broader definition than that to answer with in the seven choices given.

For that reason I prefer to call my self a Reborn again Pagan. It gives me lots of room to move my beliefs in. Kind of like a feeling of freedom to follow different trails with out surrendering to any one I am free to change my mind at the drop of the hat.

some times twice in a thread. Maybe three times.

[anon8]

if you are an atheist, you are a believer too.

Not really. Believing in god, something supernatural, is not a same thing as believing in proven scientific theories.

Most everything can be explained and understood using science. Believing in god is blind faith.

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

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Edited January 6, 2014 by valgehiir

[OmegaRacer]

if you are an atheist, you are a believer too.

Not really. Believing in god, something supernatural, is not a same thing as believing in proven scientific theories.

Most everything can be explained and understood using science. Believing in god is blind faith.

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

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Like I said in a previous post, if you want to shift from 'believing' in a Higher Power to 'knowing', there are several ways to do it. It's free, doesn't cost a thing apart from time and dedication and it's open to anyone who wants to find out if it's real or not. Greater men than all of us together have walked that path before and brought back information, writing down inner maps (some better and clearer than others).

It's up to you to find out. But I guess your mind is made up already and of course it's easier to dismiss something a priori.

When you say: There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

I would be very interested in seeing this overwhelming scientific evidence. I'm serious.

Edited January 6, 2014 by OmegaRacer

[manarak]

if you are an atheist, you are a believer too.

Not really. Believing in god, something supernatural, is not a same thing as believing in proven scientific theories.

Most everything can be explained and understood using science. Believing in god is blind faith.

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

I respect your beliefs, no problem ;-)

[thailiketoo]

if you are an atheist, you are a believer too.

Not really. Believing in god, something supernatural, is not a same thing as believing in proven scientific theories.

Most everything can be explained and understood using science. Believing in god is blind faith.

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Like I said in a previous post, if you want to shift from 'believing' in a Higher Power to 'knowing', there are several ways to do it. It's free, doesn't cost a thing apart from time and dedication and it's open to anyone who wants to find out if it's real or not. Greater men than all of us together have walked that path before and brought back information, writing down inner maps (some better and clearer than others).

It's up to you to find out. But I guess your mind is made up already and of course it's easier to dismiss something a priori.

When you say: There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

I would be very interested in seeing this overwhelming scientific evidence. I'm serious.

You are kidding right?

[Dimpys Dad]

if you are an atheist, you are a believer too.

Not really. Believing in god, something supernatural, is not a same thing as believing in proven scientific theories.

Most everything can be explained and understood using science. Believing in god is blind faith.

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

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valgehiir,

You are correct, most everything can be explained and understood using science. And you are also (partially right) that believing in God is blind faith. I say partially because most of those who believe are not blind. Our faith is based on writings and teachings of witnesses passed down through the Bible, on various accounts (both historical and modern) of those who have had spiritual experiences and through personal questioning and searching for the meanings of our existence.

But you are not correct that there is zero evidence there is a God. Apostle Paul was writing to the Roman converts, those who were living in the most modern civilization of the time, when he wrote, "For the invisible things of (God) since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity..."

The difference between those who believe in God and those who don't is that we believers see creation (the world that can be perceived through scientific evidence) as the result of a power beyond ourselves. We cannot see the invisible but we can see, study, analyse and enjoy the physical world using both scientific means and also our spiritual and mental capacities to think, reason, question and understand.

[canuckamuck]

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

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Where was I the day science proved there was no God. I missed that completely.

Was there any awards handed out?

[anon8]

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

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Where was I the day science proved there was no God. I missed that completely.

Was there any awards handed out?

No no. Please not twist my post. I said there is zero evidence, I did not say science proved there is no god.

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[Dimpys Dad]

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

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Where was I the day science proved there was no God. I missed that completely.

Was there any awards handed out?

No no. Please not twist my post. I said there is zero evidence, I did not say science proved there is no god.

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Good clarification.

[uptheos]

Some have stated that they can not believe that atheist get so worked up about something they do not believe exists.

What reasonable people get so worked up about is that something that does not exist has cause so much pain, suffering, suppression and death over the past 2000 years!

Remember the Inquisition?

Remember the Crusades?

A Pope who sent Missionaries to the "New World" with instructions to " kill whoever you can not convert"

and the list goes on and on.

Reasonable people ( atheist if you like) get worked up by the tragic things caused by superstitious people who believe in what does not exist.

Unforgettable!

[canuckamuck]

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Where was I the day science proved there was no God. I missed that completely.

Was there any awards handed out?

No no. Please not twist my post. I said there is zero evidence, I did not say science proved there is no god.

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You said "There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no God". But I guess you didn't mean there is proof.

Nevertheless, show us the evidence and let us be overwhelmed.

[anon8]

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Where was I the day science proved there was no God. I missed that completely.

Was there any awards handed out?

No no. Please not twist my post. I said there is zero evidence, I did not say science proved there is no god.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You said "There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no God". But I guess you didn't mean there is proof.

Nevertheless, show us the evidence and let us be overwhelmed.

What for thousands of years the faithful attributed to the supernatural such as the wrath of God, earthquakes, lighting strikes; draught; extreme weather, plague, have been explained by science.

The work of Satan, deformed births, two headed sheep, plague, all explained by science.

demonic possession/ witches", epilepsy, hysteria, catatonic states, have been shown by mans scientific awakening to be natural, explainable, even reproducible/ repeatable events, & processes.

Radiologic dating, consistency of fossil species evidence within geologic strata, which meet stringent scientific criteria , provide overwhelming evidence of Old Earth and Evolution, rendering Creationism and Young Earth fables just that...unsupportable mumbo jumbo, with no scientific basis.

Huge advances in medicine, showing black plague, cholera were not work of satan.

Uncurable diseases, widely believed prayer will cure, but never did, now treatable, thanks to advances in science.

Now its your turn, canuckamuck! Please show me evidence there is god, a single peace of evidence, please!

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Edited January 6, 2014 by valgehiir

[sirineou]

You said "There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no God". But I guess you didn't mean there is proof.

Nevertheless, show us the evidence and let us be overwhelmed.

What for thousands of years the faithful attributed to the supernatural such as the wrath of God, earthquakes, lighting strikes; draught; extreme weather, plague, have been explained by science.

The work of Satan, deformed births, two headed sheep, plague, all explained by science.

demonic possession/ witches", epilepsy, hysteria, catatonic states, have been shown by mans scientific awakening to be natural, explainable, even reproducible/ repeatable events, & processes.

Radiologic dating, consistency of fossil species evidence within geologic strata, which meet stringent scientific criteria , provide overwhelming evidence of Old Earth and Evolution, rendering Creationism and Young Earth fables just that...unsupportable mumbo jumbo, with no scientific basis.

Huge advances in medicine, showing black plague, cholera were not work of satan.

Uncurable diseases, widely believed prayer will cure, but never did, now treatable, thanks to advances in science.

Now its your turn, canuckamuck! Please show me evidence there is god, a single peace of evidence, please!

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These are all very reasonable arguments, but if religious people used reason in their examination of the evidence, they would not be religious. I am afraid you are wasting your breath

When confronted with arguments from a religious person your best course of action would be the same of that which you will use when a drunk wants to argue with you, Back away slowly while smiling all the way.

[anon8]

I know. Not here to enforce my beliefs, just chatting.

Everybody should be free to believe what they want.

Religeon becomes only an issue, when in some parts of the worl relgigeon makes living there difficult, and hazardous to your health, and life.

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[notmyself]

Being an atheist is not "not believing in God". It goes a step further than that in affirming the non-existence of God.

Good luck trying to back up that piece of illogic.

The biggest worry for me is that people who do not understand the concept could sit on a jury perhaps deciding someone's life. Theism (guilty), atheism (not guilty or aguilty if you like) What you have done in the quote above is included a question that has not been asked. Namely... innocent. Every juror should be asked to explain what the meaning is of 'guilty or not guilty' and if they don't, should not be able to serve.

Another example. I ask someone what their job is and they tell me they are a carpenter. They then ask me my job and I say I am not a carpenter (acarpenter). What out of that suggests I am a plumber, accountant etc? Nothing.

[canuckamuck]

Personally I believe the entire universe declares there is a God, but I didn't say I could prove it to you.

You did say I would be overwhelmed by your evidence and I am sorry to say that it did not occur.

Some of your choices were just things people said were caused by God (eg weather, and disease) Now we know that these things have natural causes. But we do not know anything more or less about God's existence because of them.

Scientific dating methods also have no bearing on whether or not there is a God. Scientists have many versions of radeologic dating. They have many because they get different results with different methods, so are keen to use the method that is likely to provide the answer they prefer. Of course they have no ancient baseline to confirm dating methods in the millions of years, so they use the fossil record and geologic layers. But quite often the dates were predetermined by palentologic evidence, which often gets it dates from radiologic methods and geology. So there is a circular logic involved and it isn't exactly the hard core science you think it is. And even thought they do a good job sorting out their story. it still does not tell us whether or not there is a God.

So all you have done is shown that man was wrong historically some times, but now man is right you say, but you aren't really taking us anywhere at all.

It doesn't matter what you say about God, it doesn't make it true.

[OmegaRacer]

Again, people asking for evidence for the existence of a higher power...

Be honest, you wouldn't believe the evidence if it were right in front of you (which it is), or inside of you (which it is).

When I list the ways to obtain such evidence (meditation, psychedelic substances if you're into that thing, or even just being in the presence of an enlightened person), I don't get any replies from the atheist lot.

Why?

Because it's just easier to beat around the bush with intellectual arguments that take you nowhere, than actually get off your ass and DO something that takes an effort and could change your whole worldview.

I'm not here to convert anybody. I don't follow any religion. I find it sad however that people choose to stay in the dark out of fear or laziness and never get to know their true self.

And with this I sign out. I will follow this thread but will try hard not to reply.

all the best

[sirineou]

I know. Not here to enforce my beliefs, just chatting.

Everybody should be free to believe what they want.

Religeon becomes only an issue, when in some parts of the worl relgigeon makes living there difficult, and hazardous to your health, and life.

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and hazardous to once life it is/was indeed,

all you need to do is read the news every day,

The dangers of religion are evident to any one who can read, unless of course you are religious in which case "God works in mysterious ways"

[notmyself]

Shamans used psychotropic plants and concoctions to look behind the veil, but there are other ways also. Sometimes a very strong trauma, a near death experience, meditation of course and yes, psychedelic substances can open the doors of perception.

Being off your nut can certainly alter your perception of reality.

[sirineou]

Some of your choices were just things people said were caused by God (eg weather, and disease) Now we know that these things have natural causes. But we do not know anything more or less about God's existence because of them.

are you then saying that you are agnostic? since you " do not know anything more or less about God's existence because of them."

or do you believe in the"God of the gaps"? ,an increasingly shrinking domain residing in what we don't know yet.

[Neeranam]

 

There is zero evidence there is a god. There is overwhelming scientific evidence there is no god.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Where was I the day science proved there was no God. I missed that completely.

Was there any awards handed out?

No no. Please not twist my post. I said there is zero evidence, I did not say science proved there is no god.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Radiologic dating, consistency of fossil species evidence within geologic strata, which meet stringent scientific criteria , provide overwhelming evidence of Old Earth and Evolution, rendering Cemonic possession/ witches", epilepsy, hysteria, catatonic states, have been shown by mans scientific awakening to be natural, explainable, even reproducible/ repeatable events, & processes.reationism and Young Earth fables just that...unsupportable mumbo jumbo, with no scientific basis.

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I resume you mean carbon dating. This is highly innaccurate with anything over a few thousand years old.

My personal belief is that time is cyclic and repeats itself every few thousand years.

[Ulysses G.]

Shamans used psychotropic plants and concoctions to look behind the veil, but there are other ways also. Sometimes a very strong trauma, a near death experience, meditation of course and yes, psychedelic substances can open the doors of perception.

Being off your nut can certainly alter your perception of reality.

I did a bunch of psychedelics and saw God one time. I have always operated under the assumption that it was a hallucination, but I did gain - what I think were - some valuable insights fron the experience.

[DualSportBiker]

I choose door 7; I am not a believer in anything that requires faith. I accept a significant volume of scientific theory on the grounds that had I the time, I could follow countless graduates in various scientific disciplines and learn to use the tools they teach to examine and posit my own more detailed opinion. I would stumble on the maths, but that is my cross to bear To that extent I would admit to having faith in the education process its assets (tools, technologies, and body of knowledge) to empower me to delve deeper. Most of your 'troubles' could also be addressed, if not solved, by further study. Your slightly facetious simplification of the processes that have created life seem to focus on purpose, a common mistake. The sequences you list were without purpose, which is what makes them statistically possible. If you retroactively apply a goal or purpose to the changes of primal ingredients to create life as we know it, the odds become fantastical for sure. There was no purpose, there remains no purpose; life just is. There will be plenty of examples of life as we can only theorise uncovered in the centuries to come. That you don't have the faith to believe the well-documented processes that created life can also be stated as "I have not studied enough to pass judgement myself." That is not a criticism in itself, few have - and that is the source of the problem and a route cause of faith; not knowing to a high degree of certainty. With regards to Dr. Krauss not discussing the origins of life; that is not his domain. I would be disingenuous to consider academic specialisation to be anything else.

I have trouble believing: I have trouble believing that the immensity of the universe came into being independently in nothingness. I have trouble believing there is nothing outside of time. I have trouble believing that order came out chaos, and when I say order I mean not only the galaxies, with complex orbital systems and planets, but matter itself organized into mutually beneficial particles which are mostly indescribable, but which cooperate together in predictable ways giving each other powers such as mass, gravity and charges. Which together can be combined to create entirely different elements which themselves can be combined over and over again, but the results can be predicted and are mathematical, and conform to laws. And from these amazing accidental particles, we have gotten the Earth and the Earth particles cooperated to create all the necessary building blocks of life, instead of the much easier task of creating no life. At some point the particles fantastically combined into amino acids. Which, although amazing, was nothing compared to the next act, which was to get multiple types of these amino acids (yes multiple types were necessary at the same time) to link up into long chains in the precise order to create proteins. Not only was this act as statistically impossible as matter coming from nothing. It was only a warm up to the next fantastic bit of cooperation. The proteins somehow began organize themselves (fortunately the right proteins were all there that day) to become an organism. And if this is not enough to blow your mind up; you will never believe what came next. The organism was so impressed with being an organism that it decided to do it all over again and figured out, all on its own, how to make another one just like itself. It must have suddenly invented consciousness. Fortunately the organism had the presence of mind that, when it created itself, it also made sure to write all of it down in a fantastically complicated code now called DNA. This ensured that the next organism didn't have to think so much and in fact left the future organisms the time to tinker with that code so they could have little mutations. And even though as we observe on Earth today that genetic mutations are almost always detrimental to the organism. It seems that original organisms had fantastic luck or were much better at mutating. Because they mutated their way into becoming possibly 10’s of millions of new fantastically complex organisms (we will never know how many because we have lost quite a few). And all of these organisms, with perhaps the exception of man, seem to have a perfect and ordered place in this ecosystem - that includes plants; which I left out for sake of brevity, but that tale includes an equally fascinating story which somehow amazingly includes DNA too. I suppose there was some cooperation (perhaps a summit) between the plants and animals to ensure their DNA was compliant, because these days, plant and animal DNA can be combined – wow. I find this whole chain of events very difficult to believe. But I think it is because I do not have the strong faith that most of you do.