Am I just a farang bank to her?

[sdshaman]

Please only reply if you know facts about Thai. I already feel like a fool so you don't need to remind me

I am westerner that finds a caring sweet Thai lady on internet. We talk several times a day and Skype at least once a day every day for several months. We always are saying the right things to each other so I decide to come to Thailand to meet her. She is everything I imagined. She says she never have boyfriend before and I believe her because she is so innocent. Her family owns a prominent business in Chiang Mai. I spend much time with them so I get to know as much as I can about whole family. They really seam like honest sincere family. Dad works but is disabled from birth defect. Mom runs business and this girl is her main worker. They also have a small daughter that is maybe 6-7. The girl I am interested in (who I will call A) works with her mom for no pay, only to help pay house and car payment. They work 12 hrs a day 7 days a week. I hang out with them at their shop every day all day long. We talk and get to know each other and have many good times and laugh together. I think how can these people be anything but sincere. A and I go to town every day and spend an hour or more together getting to know each other. She is as every sweet as she was on Skype and shows me so much care I think I am very lucky. One day there was much traffic and we were on our way back in her uncles tuk tuk. She asks if I want to take boat ride up Ping River since she never has and always wanted to and there is so much traffic. I lets do it. 2 hours later we arrive back at moms shop. Mom is upset and leaves. A starts crying. I ask her whats wrong. She asks what do you think of me? She says that there is gossip and people think we already sleep together so we cannot go out together anymore. So we only hang out at shop and with her parents after they finish work. A few days later she says that if we engage that we can go everywhere together. I think I love this girl and she loves me so I say we should. She starts to talk to me about dowry but won't tell me an amount and cries and gets nervous when we talk about it. 2 days later while we were sitting in my hotel room she coughs out 5 million Baht. I laugh and say you cannot be serious. So the next day her father wants to talk to me and he says that we can work something out.

I went into this knowing about dowry and to have a thai gf you might end up taking care of family. A and I talk about how she wants dowry so her family is taken care of. I tell her that when we marry I will pay for house and car. She says that is 30,000 Baht. Later when I talk to her dad he says it is 20,000 Baht but she corrects him. Upon our engagement the house is 15,000 alone. (I only say these number because they might be sigificant to scam numbers)

So now I sit down for the 3rd time to negotiate dowry and such. They say I pay dowry of 100,000 for engagement and bigger dowry when we marry. I think that $3k US money is nothing to be with someone that cares about me so much. Anyway this is tradition right? The date we get engaged now becomes a factor and we were kind of rushed into it for various reasons that make sense from their description. I only have 6 weeks here so I want to move fast because I am falling in love with this girl. I can only get 80,000 Baht out in time for the engagement because of ATM restrictions. They accept that and say that the other 20k will go to A for more gold. So the day of engagement I go to buy her a ring and up her necklace. She says I need ring also for engagement.

So now I am at this ceremony at her parents shop with a couple of their friends. We present the 80K and the gold on a special tray and then are engaged. We go to her grandparents in Lampoon for new years. I am introduced to their family. Grand parents, great grandparents, friends, uncles you name it. They all tie white string on our wrists and everyone is joyous and happy, crying telling me to take good care of A.

We come back to CM and now never go anywhere together alone. She says "let go to the zoo" so I jump on the opp to be alone with her but then sister comes and mom really isn't busy today so now I am not alone with her and have a 2000 Baht zoo ticket payment to make. days pass and still we never have time togeter alone. Oh, yeah we did walk halfway to the shop from the Zoo, but I really do not consider that quality time together.

Yesterday she wants to go buy her gold from the remaining 20,000 Baht. I tell her no that we must talk first. Well, she is too busy and doesn't have time to talk (but had time to go buy gold???)

When I talk with her alone I feel she really cares about me but when she gets near her parents things change and I feel she is pressured into not being herself???

Yes now I feel like a fool but my question here is about tradition. The engagement we had, does that follow any tradition? What I read says not really. Me having an engagement ring... is that tradition? The dowry I paid, is dowry for engagement or wedding? Did we just have a wedding ceremony or was it just an engagement? PLease include any reference material if possible. Thank you

[noikrit]

If you spent some of your internet time researching Thailand Culture BEFORE you decided to go on a social network site to meet your Bride, you may have found yourself in a different position ..... Look before you leap !! .... ... CHOKDEE ... Now over to the synpathisers .....

[Ulysses G.]

HEY, that is my girlfriend and I met her on the Internet too. She loves me. Are you trying to steal her?

[chrisandsu]

If she is a decent bird from a decent family then thats not bad , dowry is only for show and normally goes back to the daughter/son in law, the families are normally quite close so get used to losing your private time , chokeddeeee oh can you ask her for my gold chain back? thanks

[chiang mai]

Most Thai girls are driven by a desire to help and support their parents, this help includes marrying for money. But just because they do marry for money doesn't mean to say the relationship they enter into isn't a strong and loving one that will endure. The cynics will be along shortly to tell us that the issues of love and money shouldn't be mixed, regrettably it is so here in Thailand and it's part of the culture in many families so you may as well accept that.

So really all that leaves is the question of your feelings and how much, as you are finding out the amount is negotiable and you can't really fault them for starting with a high number, what you finish with is another story however. The option of course is to say it's all nonsense, in which case your relationship is likely over and you will have to walk away, the choice is yours. From experience the engagement party is not common and the exchange of rings sounds like a cross between old Thai and modern farang cultures, bless them! It sounds to me like you had an engagement party and not a wedding, you would almost certainly know if it was the latter.

[wym]

If you consider it affordable, I'd say go for it.

Just because she and her family are trying to get as much money as possible from you, doesn't mean she won't make you a wonderful loving wife.

And just because she loves you to death doesn't mean she'd stay with you if you became totally broke.

The two issues are completely separate; don't let your back-home value system prevent you from enjoying the benefits of the completely different values here. Only complete idiots would let "love" get in the way of long-term financial security.

And realize that if you get a few good years out of the relationship you've gotten good value, ahead of the game compared to most.

Just make sure you are completely removing her from her family situation - other than reasonable visits home of course - so that you are in control and wear the pants in your own new family.

[Gsxrnz]

This should be an interesting thread, and as much as I'd love to sit here and watch the fun unfolding, the golf course beckons.

[i claudius]

My wife and i have been married for 20 years and we have a son in university ,originally we only married for money ,but unfortulatly with all the expenses ,she just cannot afford to give me as much as i need .

[Bikkii]

Troll !

[taff33]

Troll !

Proof !!!!!!!!

[GuestHouse]

Cut your losses and get out now.

80K plus a few zoo tickets is small money compared with what you will lose in the future if you continue along with this relationship.

There are plenty of less mercenary women about - why get involved with one that sees you as a meal ticket for her and her family.

As for getting no time alone - Hogwash.

She's very likely made a promise to a Thai boyfriend (that was introduced as a relative) that she will not do the naughty with this Farang.

[kingalfred]

Not a sympathisers ,90% .yes 90 % of Thai women who look for so called "relationship" with a farang man are looking for a relationship with his bank account.and dont let any Thai visa poster tell you any different

[smokie36]

My gf gave me 2000 Baht the other day and sent me off to have a few beers for a couple of days.

The money is fast running out though....what should I do?

[CharlieH]

Walking ATM, how does that song go...."another one bites the dust".....if the story is real, get out or do some straight talking, seems very much like a troll though.

[inzman]

Any research at all would show you this country trades fake love for money. If a relationship starts out this way it will only get worse. I wait for the "crying in my soup" post after he is broke and alone. Get out now, there are many girls in this country that will show you love for much less. Good luck, but I am a bit jaded after being here 10 years and witnessing all the Falang Kwais getting robbed.

[jackr]

Op, if you're having any doubts in your head or stomach, take great heed in that wonderful animal instinct. Look how the 'relationship' started and where it has gone.

[simon43]

Yes

Next

[chuang]

This is Thai culture....welcome to Thailand.

[suthansman]

When they tied the strings around both your wrists, that is marriage, not engagement - at least from what I have seen.

Have to admit this is another post from a noob who is either a troll or has done no research whatsoever.

op... A 'prominent business in Chiang Mai' where the daughter works for no wages? - (Not really a succesful businesss then, is it?)

op... 'They have a 6-7 year old daughter.' - Who does? Does the daughter call your g/f mama or the g/f's mother?

op... We come back to CM and now never go anywhere together alone. - Of course you don't. They have your money and now do not have to scrimp and scrape working in the shop for peanuts.- in this 'Prominent Business'.

op... 'She says that is 30,000 Baht. Later when I talk to her dad he says it is 20,000 Baht but she corrects him.' - Of course she does. The father is losing the plot and needs to be kept in line to get as many Baht as possible from this foreign sucker.

I am . What more can I say?

[HeavyDrinker]

Excellent! An "I'm a walking ATM thread...." Shame its on a Saturday as I've to take the missus fishing this afternoon.....

[falkan]

hahah she is taking you for a ride! there is so money other girls out there don't bother with this gold-diggggggger..

[falkan]

If you consider it affordable, I'd say go for it.

Just because she and her family are trying to get as much money as possible from you, doesn't mean she won't make you a wonderful loving wife.

And just because she loves you to death doesn't mean she'd stay with you if you became totally broke.

The two issues are completely separate; don't let your back-home value system prevent you from enjoying the benefits of the completely different values here. Only complete idiots would let "love" get in the way of long-term financial security.

And realize that if you get a few good years out of the relationship you've gotten good value, ahead of the game compared to most.

Just make sure you are completely removing her from her family situation - other than reasonable visits home of course - so that you are in control and wear the pants in your own new family.

5 millon bath and gold on that for a simple CM girl lol? hahah why should anyone pay a girl in this country, are you that ugly that you need to pay to find a girl to marry..

C'mon 2014!

[David48]

WOW .... I have no other words (yes, unusual, I know) ... WOW.

Awesome first post BTW ...

OH ... since you requested "Please only reply if you know facts about Thai." ... unfortunately I can not say more. Factual input is so 2013.

2014 is going to be a Fun year for me. Maximum Sanok!

.

[Somtamnication]

Tell her that you have a surprise for her. Ask her for the gold back and tell her you are going to the gold shop. Then leave!!!!!!!!!!

[chiang mai]

I do like balance in these things, so since the majority here are in favor of suggesting that the female in question is only after your money, let me paint an alternate picture, from personal experience:

I met my wife ten years ago, we lived together for a year before holding a forgiveness ceremony at the home of her parents, this was to apologize for living together outside of marriage - we were not engaged either, there was no financial aspect to this small ceremony other than to make a donation to the monks.

By the second year I'd decided the relationship was going to be long term and since I was flushed at the time I offered to build her parents a house, our self managed 80 sq metre build project cost about 500,000. Why did I do that? Because I wanted to give something back and if the relationship had finished the following week I would still have been OK with it all. And I also funded a shop they built in their garden, I spent 10,000 baht to stock the shop after it was built and they took it from there.

Today the family's quality of life is substantially improved over what it was when I first met them and I get a lot of satisfaction from that - they were dirt poor when we first met, seriously impoverished.

Around year four we decided to get married and this involved a ceremony at the family home and sin-sod - sin-sod in this case was a cheque for a million baht with the words INVALID written across it, it served it's purpose of show and face at the ceremony.

My financial commitment to the family (who are extremely poor) involve me paying their electric bill every month and this is typically under 1,000 baht, I voluntarily give them a further 4,000 baht and this is usually returned to us in some shape or form throughout the year, I don't keep track.

My wife works at an upmarket hotel and earns decent money, I pay for all living expenses and she self funds whatever her needs might be - infrequent exceptional items get discussed fully, sometimes they get funded, sometimes they don't. Family crisis occurs about twice a year and their remedy gets discussed and agreed also.

Last year my wife paid for our trip to Bali, this year I plan to buy her a new car, I trust my wife more than anyone else on the planet and the commitment has been tested (by circumstance) more ways than I care to think and she has always passed with flying colours.

So there we have it, I wonder how many of the posters thus far who advocate running a mile have actually experienced a relationship in Thailand that was financially negative or how much of popular opinion is borrowed from the next bar stool or urban myth. And of those that have endured failed relationships that caused financial loss, does that person admit to knowing the real reasons for it? It's easy to say that I lost all my money to a Thai woman because that's the way they are, money grabbing etc. It's harder to say the relationship failed because, I was promiscuous, lacked commitment to making the relationship work, was only present for ten per cent of the time with the remaining ninety per cent being spent at work and/or overseas with my wife, and so on and so on, the reasons for this are legion.

[zeichen]

First, you were introduced to parents, that is a sign of engagement. If she kept it secret from them, then you could have dated. It is common for group dating and not being alone to save reputation. However, if you didn't meet the family, she would have snuck out and spent time with you.

2nd, you are married in the eyes of the family especially if a monk is the one that wrapped the strings around you. If there wasn't a monk, then it was not a wedding. Getting the paper license is very easy and not always as important to a family.

Engagement rings are not traditional. Tell her flatly that the engagement ring especially a diamond ring is the Western equavalent of a dowry/ and you already gave sin sod. So it would be strange to give two times.

How old are you and how old is she? Her parents and neighbors probably are worried about her being with a foreigner because of reputation.

Sorry, 1 foreigner and 2 Thai tickets at the zoo is less than 300 Baht not 2k. Even if you take the bus around the whole place is stil less than 500.

Questions you need to ask yourself: Where would you live if you get officially married? What do you do for work and can you do it in Chiang Mai. Do you need to give your money to your wife for her family, or will she be responsible for that?

Sounds like you jumped into a marriage before thinking the big questions out.

This girl is not middle class, this girl is from a struggling family. Succesful businesses don't slave their children 12 hours a day, they don't need their children to give them money.

I doubt they are scamming you, but seriously think that you need to ask yourself and her some very big life questions.

As stated before wedding dowry is usually a lot more than 100k and is usually returned.

It might help to find some good mates in CM that are married to actual middle class profesional women and have them introduced to your girl friend. Then they can find out if this girl is for real or a pretender.

My initial reaction is for you to chalk it up to a loss and get out while you can.

You have 2 heads one that thinks and one that thinks that it thinks.

[chiang mai]

"You have 2 heads one that thinks and one that thinks that it thinks", how original.

[davyboy]

When they tied the strings around both your wrists, that is marriage, not engagement - at least from what I have seen.

Have to admit this is another post from a noob who is either a troll or has done no research whatsoever.

op... A 'prominent business in Chiang Mai' where the daughter works for no wages? - (Not really a succesful businesss then, is it?)

op... 'They have a 6-7 year old daughter.' - Who does? Does the daughter call your g/f mama or the g/f's mother?

op... We come back to CM and now never go anywhere together alone. - Of course you don't. They have your money and now do not have to scrimp and scrape working in the shop for peanuts.- in this 'Prominent Business'.

op... 'She says that is 30,000 Baht. Later when I talk to her dad he says it is 20,000 Baht but she corrects him.' - Of course she does. The father is losing the plot and needs to be kept in line to get as many Baht as possible from this foreign sucker.

I am . What more can I say?

Yes, I agree that the OP is married in the eyes of Thai people.

[GrantSmith]

Must... Resist... Temptation...

OP has there been any intimacy between the two of you?

[aTomsLife]

This is Thai culture....welcome to Thailand.

Sinsod is required for an engagement? I thought that was given at the wedding.

Anyway, here's to hoping the OP's a troll.