Cost of Living?

[Offtothai]

Hi all. First post and very interested in hearing from expats living in Thailand-whether that be Bangkok,Chiang Mai, Pattaya etc (pro's and cons?). I'm seriously looking at retiring in Thailand and am travelling there later this year for a fact finder.I'm single. I've holidayed there three times,enjoy the place and yes would do a several month holiday before making a final decision.My situation is retiring on about 75000 baht(2500Aus) a month and what standard of living that would provide. Also whether buying or renting is the better option.I could afford to buy around 4.5mbaht (150kAus). Yes I'd probably rent the first 12 months before buying( if buying is the preferred option) just really interested in what expats who've experience there think? There are many posts here about the cost of certain things but not too many that relate to how much someone is spending per year and how much 'bang for their buck' they actually get.I've travelled extensively so pretty comfortable with relocating and would prefer to be living reasonably centrally though not necessarily 'smack in the middle'.I'm familiar with retirement visa's and the process of moving there just would really like to know what long term residents of Thailand have to say about how far my funds would go. Hope this all makes sense. Many thanks for any help you can give .

[FiftyTwo]

Country is on the brink of war.

Wait!

[Forethat]

Personally, I'd weigh the cost of renting against potential performance figures from investing the money that I'd spend buying. As someone points out, the country is a bit iffy at the moment, so factor that in and the choice should be easy....

You seem to have figured out the best option yourself, sign a 12-month rental agreement and you'll have time to get somewhat familiar with areas (easy to relocate if you rent) and living in Thailand (which should NOT be confused with going there as a tourist).

Providing you dont expect to maintain a western style luxurious life, 75.000/month is a buck that should get you a pretty dam_n decent bang (no pun intended)...

Enjoy your retirement!

Edited January 4, 2014 by Forethat

[mickjn]

You can rent a house I live well on half that amount

[Mosha]

You can rent a house I live well on half that amount

You might not live like a king, but you'll be ok

[Costas2008]

What about considering living not in a big city like BKK, Chiang Mai etc. and live in a town in Isaan, like Khon Kaen, Korat, Udon Thani etc.

Your 75k will be more than enough to have a very comfortable life and even allow you for frequent trips to Pattaya, Phuket where the excitement is!

Also your 4.5 m baht will allow you to purchase a descent condo.

Unfortunately prices have rocketed in the big cities.

Think of it and explore my suggestion when here in LOS.

Wish you Good Luck.

[wym]

75K won't be close to enough if you have more than 1-2 of the below to a large extent, or any one beyond moderation

Eating out in air-conditioned western-food restaurants

Fancy digs, especially in Bangkok or beach resort areas

Nice vehicle

Nightlife and "partying" whether alcohol/other drugs

Pretty young women, or even one if she's sharp

Better than adequate health insurance

Upscale travel in the region or trips home

Regular consumerism/upgrading of imported fashion/electronics

etc

I would advice multiple categories/layers of budgeting, so that you account for any of the above that stand out separately from your basic budget.

If any of the above are particularly addictive for you, then you'll most likely find yourself stealing from the basic budget to pay for your passions.

[wym]

PS don't even consider buying until you've lived here for at least five years, and by then you'll realize it's just not smart from a financial/legal POV, unless you're a professional RE investor willing to put a big percentage of your annual budget into lawyers - and finding trustworthy ones here is one of the most difficult challenges.

Whatever you do don't put property in the name of someone you've got a personal relationship with, unless you're willing to consider it an outright gift at the time of purchase (which in most cases it really is)

[kikoman]

That is more than enough money to live in Thailand, if you do spend a lot of money in the bars and on the women then you could run into a problem during the remainder of the month.

Make a realistic budget and stick to it and you should have no problem, I brought my vacation mad money with me when I first came to Thailand, when that money ran out I moved out of Pattaya to Sattahip and did not have any problems after that, you can budget in your drinking and women activities and that should do nicely if you have the will power to live according to your income!

Come live for say six months, and then make the decision if life in Thailand is for you, I found heaven here but there are many miserable expats that dislike it here, up to you!

Cheers

[David48]

Personally, I'd weigh the cost of renting against potential performance figures from investing the money that I'd spend buying. As someone points out, the country is a bit iffy at the moment, so factor that in and the choice should be easy....

You seem to have figured out the best option yourself, sign a 12-month rental agreement and you'll have time to get somewhat familiar with areas (easy to relocate if you rent) and living in Thailand (which should NOT be confused with going there as a tourist).

Providing you dont expect to maintain a western style luxurious life, 75.000/month is a buck that should get you a pretty dam_n decent bang (no pun intended)...

Enjoy your retirement!

...

Not much to argue with there ... some solid advice.

[Maestro]

Removed a screaming "LOL" post all in bold. (Didn't look like much to LOL about, anyway)

Also removed a flame and the reply to it.

[HardenedSoul]

Depends on what you define as "comfort"

Is it a few glasses of cheap Hong Thong anti-freeze whisky and a pack of moody Thai throat-burner cigarettes with the well-worn old boiler at the local beer booth

or

is it shaking a leg with a sultry, luk kreung actress/drive-time radio DJ while quaffing Grey Goose from the bottle at that very, very hush-hush establishment in Sathorn where the waitresses bring a sterling silver tray of high-purity Bolivian marching dust to your table within 5 minutes of your arrival.

75,000 won't cut the latter

Edited January 5, 2014 by HardenedSoul

[wamberal]

Firstly, do not burn any bridges in your home country. Do you have friends and family relationships that you will miss as time goes by? Are you willing to become a stranger in a strange land, forever? Are you expecting things in your life to change for the better, just because you are in a different environment? Face up to these issues, and answer them honestly, and allow for the fact that you will probably be disappointed. You might not be, some are, some are not.

Secondly, consider the long term effects of cost inflation and currency fluctuations, on your investment income.

Thirdly, think about what your life will be like when you are unable to look after yourself properly, that time will come for most of us.

In other words, go carefully through all the reasons why you should not relocate permanently. Consider all these points honestly and objectively. Do not expect to win life's lottery, most of us don't. Most of us have to make our own luck, it does not fall from the trees. Even mango trees!

Then, if in spite of the potential problems you still go ahead, do not buy property for five years, as others have said. (I would say, do not buy an apartment or a condominium ever, but that is just my opinion - worry about the inevitable wear and tear on communally owned buildings whose owners are not interested in paying for upkeep).

Do not fall into a relationship. Make some friends, genuine friends, if you can. You will need good friends.

Always have a Plan B. Plans C and D are worth thinking about, too.

Good luck, and take off your rose-coloured glasses. Finally, when somebody smiles at you, it can have a very different meaning (or no meaning at all) to what you are used to. In fact, it would be worth every newcomer doing a course in understanding Thai culture right from the start.

[craigt3365]

Don't forget health care. Either buy insurance when you get here, or make sure you've got a few million baht handy. An emergency here can easily set you back that much.

I know people who live here on 20,000B per month. It's not a good life, but they get by. I know others who barely make it on 10 times that amount (nice cars, nice home, int'l schools, etc). Just depends on how you want to live.

[mogandave]

Yeah, how you want to live will determine what you need to spend. I would recommend renting rather than buying, regardless of how long you’ve been here, unless you want to buy something for your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend or kid(s). All you can own yourself is a condo, and they are generally cheap and easy to rent.

Another option is buying something in your wife’s name and holding a long term lease on the property.

My regular monthly expenses run:

22K rent

5-8K electric

15-20K car

3K TV

1K internet

1K phone

So that’s 47K-55K a month without food, entertainment or travel.

[thonglorjimmy]

My regular monthly expenses run:

22K rent 30K, rent, maintenance and water - Sukhumvit Bangkok

5-8K electric 2K

15-20K car 2K, Gas and Insurance, usually use public transport

3K TV 3K

1K internet 1K

1K phone 1K

Supermarket 7K

So that’s 47K-55K a month without food, entertainment or travel. So in my case about 46K per month.

It really depends on your proposed lifestyle, I choose to live in a fairly expensive area, but I can still live well within my means, we all have different requirement, but I believe it's essential to budget to have to ensure that you have more money left at the end of the month rather than more month left at money.

I agree that it's probably better to rent than purchase, if you rent you keep a degree of flexibility, if you buy you could well be stuck.

You need to factor in the currency exchange trends, when I moved to Thailand I was getting 72 Baht to each of my British Pounds, at one stage I was getting barely 42, it's seen an improvement of late, but that improvement is likely to be reversed.

[GuestHouse]

You don't say how old you are, which if you are living on a fixed income is going to be an issue - the younger you are the longer you will be retired, the more impact inflation is going to have on your life style.

The other challenge you will have is keeping all your assets in your own name. It is almost inevitable that you'll get into a relationship in Thailand and while the imagined needs of a younger woman might have you looking forward to an endless stream of her satisfying your needs - it is her other needs, security, family, home……. that will almost certainly need to be supported by your income.

My advice, move to Thailand for a year, do as Kilkoman did and bring over some "vacation mad" money and spend that getting to know the lay of the land.

But remember and never forget - it you are drawing more money than your 'vacation mad' money in that first year you are eating into your long term future (in Thailand or back home)

Remember and never forget - as soon as you start getting into a serious relationship with a woman in Thailand - unless she's bring enough income to the table to keep herself - you will wind up keeping her and very likely a number of her family members.

Rent - Don't buy - Leave all your capital back home, live of income.

[chris2004]

Yeah, how you want to live will determine what you need to spend. I would recommend renting rather than buying, regardless of how long you’ve been here, unless you want to buy something for your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend or kid(s). All you can own yourself is a condo, and they are generally cheap and easy to rent.

Another option is buying something in your wife’s name and holding a long term lease on the property.

My regular monthly expenses run:

22K rent

5-8K electric

15-20K car

3K TV

1K internet

1K phone

So that’s 47K-55K a month without food, entertainment or travel.

Without entertainment ? For many of us "entertainment" is the biggest expense.

[yourauntbob]

75k a month is plenty. most westerns live on less. you will not be able to have a menajahtwa every night, but you will be more than comfortable.

rent, dont buy.......... at least until you have been here a few years.

[soomak]

Keep in mind that bkk and phuket are the most expensive places to live in Thailand.

I live in bkk, and my overall expenses in 2013 were 64,000 thb per month. That's without owning a car, and almost zero alcohol.

You can live fine for 75K baht per month even in bkk, but you will have to watch how you spend your money.

If you choose Chiang Mai or somewhere in Issan, your expenses will be perhaps 10-20% lower.

Regarding renting or buying, as others have said take your time and do not rush it.

Two things to consider:

1. Buying ties you up to one place, and one of the advantages of retirement is the ability to change your location easily.

2. If you buy and later on wish to rent your place out, it might not be easy; I have seen many empty condos in bkk.

[ttthailand]

When I was a party animal and going out to the bars, having fun with the ladies there, eating most of my meals in western restaurants and supporting a young babe I spent tons of money. Perhaps I am getting older or maybe smarter. Now I spend around your budget or perhaps a little less and I am more happy, go figure .... Hahaha

I stay in a small apt but it is very nice so I enjoy staying home. I have my pool, gym, cable TV and high speed internet so I get my exercise and entertainment and stick around the house more. I live near the BTS in Bkk so I can go almost anywhere in the city very easily and don't need to pay for a car. if i need a car for a trip I rent. As for ladies, I have discovered that there are tons of them out there looking for a nice guy to enjoy some time with. Most hope for a future but are willing to wait and see. Forget about these bar girls as they have been around the block too many times and in most cases they are just money pits and bad news. Avoid and you will have happy future !!! They are most guy's downfall. I like to cook and have an oven in my apt so I make many of my meals at home. I always eat breakfast and lunch at the apt and go out to eat dinner a few times a week, normally with a lady friend and then out for a little night life. I really enjoy this life !!!

Costs : rent & apt expenses = 20k, transportation = 4k, food beer etc = 20k, phone and Internet = 1k, visa health care other misc = 5k, party ladies entertainment = 15k, trip out of town 10k. So all about same you 75k .... Enjoy !!!

[wamberal]

AUD 2500 per month might well be THB 75000 today. But bear in mind that the AUD has been a lot lower in recent history. Again, make sure you factor the worst cases into your financial modelling. Also remember that if your income is fixed, it is being eroded every single year by the rise in the cost of living.

THB 75000 today could easily be the equivalent of THB 25000 in twenty years time, even less.

[mogandave]

Could be 200,000K as well

[wamberal]

Could be 200,000K as well

Why not 2 million? I suppose that's a possibility.

However, if the OP is making serious decisions, he needs to consider serious possibilities. The AUD/THB has been down to 14 in the not too distant past. The highest is upper 30s, from memory.

Then there is local cost inflation if the income is fixed.

[rct99q]

I think with the amounts you have listed you are most likely going to be living borderline squalor. You may be able to live in Isaan however you may need to take on a roommate or two.

In my experience you sound like the kind of person who would be better off living where you are. If say you could bring double that amount around 150,000 - 200,000 per month.....then you could possibly live a modest lifestyle. Not being cruel it's just see this a lot and people believe you can live here cheaply. You can, but you can also live in California cheaply too. Outside, no home, food banks, begging, living off of the charitable donations of those well off...etc.Same here.

Stay where you are, grow some tomatoes, join a seniors club to meet others like minded and enjoy what remaining years you have left.

[rct99q]

75k a month is plenty. most westerns live on less. you will not be able to have a menajahtwa every night, but you will be more than comfortable.

rent, dont buy.......... at least until you have been here a few years.

menajahtwa, this is the Thailand forum...not the Indian Food Forum.

Perhaps you meant Menage a Trois?

[Robby nz]

Heaps of money unless you want to live the rich lifestyle or take on a family.

As has been said BKK and some of the resort places are expensive but.

There is more to the country than BKK, CM, PTT, PKT Issan.

There is the whole central, southern and western part that are all worth considering and certainly in your first year looking at.

Depending on what your interests are and by retirement age you should have some, pick out a place that suites those interests.

First year plan to move around and see as much of the country as possible then work out where you want to live, city, small town, rural, you have plenty of choice.

One word that should never be in your vocabulary is marriage, don't even think about it.

At least in the first year don't buy a car and certainly not a motorcy, 78% of road deaths last year involved motorcy, use public transport, there are few places you cant get to on buses songtau train or whatever.

Learn a bit of Thai before you come and keep learning.

Make cast iron investments with your spare cash in OZ.

Have your income paid into an interest bearing OZ bank account then open a Thai bank account and arrange with your OZ bank to be able to make transfers when you need them, say $10K at a time.

That way you keep only what you in need TL and can transfer when you need it.

Rent don't buy, something you own can be taken from you or can become a millstone.

Do not get confrontational with anyone.

And in spite of what some will tell you, smile.

[hellodolly]

Single you can live very nicely on that budget.

I assume you are reasonable and not expecting some of the expensive things some have mentioned. I have more than that and live a good life. I of course have a Thai wife so that brings down the amount of money I have to spend.

I do put money into her family to help the mother and education for the young ones and one mentally challenged nephew. I know many frown on this but I am old school if I am going to buy in I will buy whole hog. It is rewarding to me to see them with degrees.

As for buying a condo or (house which would involve a Thai.) You might want to consider you are retired and it is a place to live in for the rest of your life. I realize you are not going to be jumping into it right away. But be sure to make that the number one thing in your choice. Don't try too base it on an investment opinion. You might never sell it. Just make sure it is what you really want where you want it and you are not planning on moving again. Take your time there is lots to see before you have to make your choice.

I have made my choice and rent. I am only 72 so I might decide at a later date to move to a new location. I like to leave my options open. Makes no difference to me what country I am in I will not buy some thing I can not walk away from.

Where ever you choose to settle I am sure with your attitude and previous experience you will be very happy.

[NCC1701A]

please totally and completely define what you mean by "living"?

I know many Thais who earn 15,000 to 30,000 a month on average. they are very happy living like a Thai.

some of them work for 7 days a week, 12 hours a day with three days off a month.

they don't own cars, condos or houses. they don't travel very far. they don't eat western food. they share their living space with three people.

one person can live on 45,000 per month living a "hybrid" Western/Thai life style.

So just give up most of your western ways.

[wamberal]

The effects of cost inflation on a fixed income can be scary. $30,000 per annum in today's money will be worth $22,000 per annum at an inflation rate of 3% after ten years, and $16,000 per annum after twenty years.

That is without factoring in exchange rate variations.