Sinsod maybe the end

[brewsterbudgen]

If so many of the posters think the OP is a troll, why are they bothering to reply?

The OP has had his answer and can now do what he wants with his relationship and his money. Some people seem to find other people's happiness rather dispiriting!

[bander]

OMG

It's common knowledge to not pay sinsod if the lady already has a baby. They know this and they are trying to take advantage of you. Sinsod is to be paid only if virginity can be verified. You're providing a lot of monthly money to them and they are trying to squeeze more out of you. $1,500/month is a lot by Thai standards.

Cut them off for one month and see how they react. It's a card game and you've got all the Ace's.

Simple Simple Simple.

It's more like a fishing game where OP is already on the hook and ready to be landed. All Thais and most expats know there is no sinsod when a Thai woman has been married and have children. Sounds like you are just about to being scammed here Izbbroke. They probably only want you to keep on as a passive sponsor to this family. Remember 1500 US$ is 50.000 bath a month witch mean they have more income than a Thai factory salary five times.

Good luck with the wedding anyway

[notmyself]

It is unimaginable that the mother and daughter do not know that sinsod is not paid for a divorced single mother. The OP is being played by them both.

[little mary sunshine]

You're already being screwed by the mother and daugher....You just don't

know it yet !!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep sending that $1500 per month, they are having

the time of their life and laughing their ass off at you.

[bander]

I'm afraid I will have to disagree with most everyone that has responded. I myself am getting married tomorrow, before the holidays we went to Bangkok and were legally married. I didn't mention sinsot and neither did my wife. A traditional wedding or marriage is a whole different story. I like yourself support not only my wife and her daughter but one way or another I support the entire family, when we buy food to take and eat at home, we have to buy enough for the entire family, when someone gets sick to where a hospital visit is needed? They turn to me to help out with a "loan". I don't like it but that's the way it is, however, when I need something the family will bend over backwards to help me out. Point being I also wasn't happy about paying sinsot but as I understand it it is a face thing, my wife's aunt married a Thai man last year and he refused to pay sinsot, we'll guess what? He caught crap from her family and his. I negotiated with my mother in law, it wasn't much of a negotiation as I told her I would pay baht 45,000 and she said ok. Everyone's happy now but me, I'll get over it, I have the best woman that I've ever met and she treats me like a king so if it cost me a couple days pay to keep the peace I figure it's well worth it. Just my opinion but what do I know, I live out in the sticks with the country bumpkins but they are good people.

I kinda get the feeling that when ACT III starts this is the nic that will be the OP.

Supporting and lending out money (witch you never get back) to a whole thai family isn't why some of us came to Thailand in the first place.

If you are being generous to Thais they often mistaking you for being stupid and then take advantage of you. We all know about sick buffalo's, mother in hospital, car/motorbike accident you name it. Once you say enough is enough your wife is history and suddenly you are alone without any "family Thai friends". Thai people look at falang without money like a dog even if you have supported them with hundreds of thousand bath earlier

[Loptr]

I've read about half of this thread and came down with a serious case of deja vu. It's not like we haven't read or heard the same story 100s of times.

To the OP, your odds of success are roughly the same as in the west, perhaps a little worse. The fact that you are being hit up for support and sin sot worsens your odds. If the requests for money increase and attitudes decrease after marriage, then your odds are in the toilet.

I've not read this bit of sage advice from any of the old Thailand hands on this thread, but the rule of thumb is, never invest more in Thailand than you are willing to walk away from at a moments notice. In other words, don't put all your eggs in one basket and protect your assets. Although it reads like you are living pretty close to the bone with the extra support you are providing to your future family. So nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Donnie Brasco]

Personally I enjoy these trolls.

It's like a bar fight.

It's a lot easier to sell banner ads and to generate income in a website if you have lots of hits.

These types of stories are trolled for a profit.

Anybody ever consider that someone clever enough to have all this money might be impervious to demands for it ;-?

But these trolls seem to work for all concerned.

The troll gets rewarded.

The responder gets his end off.

The board gets some decent content.

And someone, somewhere out there, who is actually contemplating handing over a good whack of cash for NOTHING gets educated.

The only ones who lose are the scammers.

BTW, I assure you, the Thais who read these websites, laugh their @$$e$ off about the rubes who shell out this kind of money to anyone in what is effectively a front-ended deal.

[tsigane]

Many Thai parents expect sinsod from a farang irrespective of whether the bride has been married previously or has a baby. If this makes you angry or you think it's racist, then you run the risk of losing your bride to be. That may, or may not be, for the best - only you know how you feel.

Not everyone thinks that Thai culture, or Thais, is out to scam them, so if you can afford some sinsod speak to the MIL (or your fiance) and negotiate a suitable amount. You are no doubt considerably richer than her family, so why not make a nice show of it at the wedding? Of course, if you can't afford it don't pay it.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the comments from people who seem to have issues with some Thais' attitudes to foreigners.

By giving $1500 a month to MIL, OP has already demonstrated to them that he's a major walking ATM. Now they are just pushing to see where the limits are. In a place where most people work for 300-400 USD per month, a pimp-mother gets $1500 for her second-hand (or is it third-hand) goods!?!? This looks awfully like a troll.

OP is not running the risk of losing a bride. MIL is NEVER going to let $1500 a month slip out of her hands. OP would be lucky to escape his current predicament with only losses he incurred so far.

MIL in this story is NOT a decent person in any culture, not western, not Asian, not Thai. Her behavior is despicable and so is that of his "love."

It's not about Thai's attitudes to foreigners. MIL would quite happily collect $1500 a month from a Thai guy too (if she were to find even one in all of Thailand).

This is not Thai-culture unique either. I'm sure there would be plenty of MIL in the west who would be quite happy to collect such a nice monthly stipend (4-5 times lower monthly salary) if someone were stupid enough to offer it. Heck, most guys who can afford this have trophy wives already there. The difference is that they know the gold diggers they married are NOT into them but into their money.

Chances are the GF is only good at pretending to be "so madly in love" with the OP. All Thai children have respect for their parents, yet they have children outside marriage, marry against parent's will, do what parents don't like, etc. So the whole enchilada about GF being on mom's side because of respect is BS as well. She's after the money spewing catch.

May lord be merciful on OP...

[atyclb]

As a funny diversion, why do threads like these always get people speaing in "bar girlese"?

Tell wife business you no good

This month money not much

You no like I find new woman

It's an English language forum isn't it? Or a go-go bar.

But to some/many the entire country is a go-go bar

[BlueSkyCowboy]

To add I already booked flights there and back to be there for our wedding.

I read this story last week already. Slightly different, but the same entertaining love story. I think that the same person is yanking our chain and just has fun to make us old hands in thailand getting involved. I suggest that the good man keeps sending $1500 a month and everybody (almost everybody) will be happy

[peecee]

From what I read if she has been married before and has kids you should not have to pay anything.

For sure; second hand good's are only ever paid for by naive western foreigners blackmailed by greedy parents. If her mother isn't happy with what you spend on them now (& I bet she get's her share) it will only get more demanding and end in tears!

[Donnie Brasco]

As a funny diversion, why do threads like these always get people speaing in "bar girlese"?

Tell wife business you no good

This month money not much

You no like I find new woman

It's an English language forum isn't it? Or a go-go bar.

But to some/many the entire country is a go-go bar

Well ;-?

[kennypowers]

$1,500 a month! Wow, I'd say you've well and truly paid your sinsod. However, I strongly suggest you read this popular post before going any further: http://www.thethailandlife.com/sin-sod

Why would any 30 year old Thai woman be interested in a 45 year old foreigner. I hate to say it but the reason is money. I've said it before but what baffles me is that foreigners never question why Thais always date/marry someone of their own age yet all these young women are seeking a sugar daddy. My wife's parents are the same age, her grandparents the same age, her sister and husband the same age, and pretty much all partners in the moo baan the same age. Outside of that, all my Thai friends with Thai partners are within a couple of years of each other. The only exceptions are when a girl is being treated as a Mia Noi or gik and being "taken care of", think students from poorer families or gold diggers.

When foreigners come to Thailand and hang out with other foreigners who've married young women with a questionable history they think this is the norm in Thailand. But really, it isn't. Which is why Thai people call ageing foreigners "Baa gam"! (Pervert, sex pest, etc).

Follow the golden rule: Don't act in any way you wouldn't in your own country.

[khunPer]

Sin Sot and monthly support are always subjects that create big discussion, as it for many foreigners are against our culture. However 1500 US$ (some 45,000 baht) a month do sound as quite a bit, but all have individual demands. Often a Thai man will show that he can provide for a family by making regular monthly payments for a period, which can be a couple of years, before a wedding.

I will, as other posters, also recommend you read the book “Thailand Fever” (se more at thailandfever.com). Furthermore i suggest you read Phil Nicks’ book “Love Entrepreneurs” (Monsoon 978-981-05-9211-0).

Relationship based on money – combined with love – may work very fine; or may just be a scam, however difficult to see when blindfolded by love. Sin Sot is both a tradition and a make face in the local society – especially when the daughter’s husband to be is a farang. Sin Sot is based on a negotiation, but the money have to be shown at the local wedding party – it is often a major part of the ceremony to count the money (slowly) in public – sometimes it can be agreed, that the money, or part of the money, is returned after the ceremony. Anything less than 100,000 from a farang will be a “loose face”. Thai-Thai couples may show anything from around 100,000 and up to several millions, depending of social rank and status of the bride.

The village ceremony, which is cultural but not an official marriage unless certified at the Amphor (paperwork at District Office), are normally paid for by the groom – but that can vary and sometimes there will be two parties in both the bride’s and the groom’s home, where the party from the groom’s home will walk in procession to the bride. Guests at the party will either hand over an envelope with money or tie a band with a money note to the marriage couple’s wrists; that money is normally used as (partly) payment for the wedding party. I presume, that when the groom is a (rich) farang, that recieved money at the party may be minor. Traditional practice may vary from community to community, and also social rank.

What I am saying is based on my observations through the about 10 years I’ve been staying in Thailand. I attach a Sin Sot picture from one of the typical Thai-Thai weddings I’ve been invited to.

But do yourself a favour and read the two books, they may improve your understanding and be good help for a lucky Thai-relationship.

I wish you all the best for your future plans.

[nithisa78]

From what I read if she has been married before and has kids you should not have to pay anything.

That is correct but you really love her....you pay anyway . Or go on with your life.

[Donnie Brasco]

Looks like an almost seamless transition between the time-tested hit-generating old sin sot standby and a

(Ahem) . . . . . ."my many many my many Thai friends that I hang with and socialize with all the time who reveal to me the details of Thai manners and morals (like) *all the time*at the private family clubs we congregate in (like, routinely :-)) and with whom I am so close" type TROLL post.

S- s - s - okay, "TV godlettes"

Selling real estate is a tough gig in times like these.

Gotta pull out all the stops, chai mai ?

[David48]

$1,500 a month! Wow, I'd say you've well and truly paid your sinsod. However, I strongly suggest you read this popular post before going any further: http://www.thethailandlife.com/sin-sod

Why would any 30 year old Thai woman be interested in a 45 year old foreigner. I hate to say it but the reason is money. I've said it before but what baffles me is that foreigners never question why Thais always date/marry someone of their own age yet all these young women are seeking a sugar daddy. My wife's parents are the same age, her grandparents the same age, her sister and husband the same age, and pretty much all partners in the moo baan the same age. Outside of that, all my Thai friends with Thai partners are within a couple of years of each other. The only exceptions are when a girl is being treated as a Mia Noi or gik and being "taken care of", think students from poorer families or gold diggers.

When foreigners come to Thailand and hang out with other foreigners who've married young women with a questionable history they think this is the norm in Thailand. But really, it isn't. Which is why Thai people call ageing foreigners "Baa gam"! (Pervert, sex pest, etc).

Follow the golden rule: Don't act in any way you wouldn't in your own country.

I'm sure a well meaning post but ...

The concluding line of, "Follow the golden rule: Don't act in any way you wouldn't in your own country."

Is poor advice is tried to be applied universally.

There are many things I do in Thailand that I would never dream of doing in the country of my birth.

[rgs2001uk]

Sin Sot and monthly support are always subjects that create big discussion, as it for many foreigners are against our culture. However 1500 US$ (some 45,000 baht) a month do sound as quite a bit, but all have individual demands. Often a Thai man will show that he can provide for a family by making regular monthly payments for a period, which can be a couple of years, before a wedding.

I will, as other posters, also recommend you read the book “Thailand Fever” (se more at thailandfever.com). Furthermore i suggest you read Phil Nicks’ book “Love Entrepreneurs” (Monsoon 978-981-05-9211-0).

Relationship based on money – combined with love – may work very fine; or may just be a scam, however difficult to see when blindfolded by love. Sin Sot is both a tradition and a make face in the local society – especially when the daughter’s husband to be is a farang. Sin Sot is based on a negotiation, but the money have to be shown at the local wedding party – it is often a major part of the ceremony to count the money (slowly) in public – sometimes it can be agreed, that the money, or part of the money, is returned after the ceremony. Anything less than 100,000 from a farang will be a “loose face”. Thai-Thai couples may show anything from around 100,000 and up to several millions, depending of social rank and status of the bride.

The village ceremony, which is cultural but not an official marriage unless certified at the Amphor (paperwork at District Office), are normally paid for by the groom – but that can vary and sometimes there will be two parties in both the bride’s and the groom’s home, where the party from the groom’s home will walk in procession to the bride. Guests at the party will either hand over an envelope with money or tie a band with a money note to the marriage couple’s wrists; that money is normally used as (partly) payment for the wedding party. I presume, that when the groom is a (rich) farang, that recieved money at the party may be minor. Traditional practice may vary from community to community, and also social rank.

What I am saying is based on my observations through the about 10 years I’ve been staying in Thailand. I attach a Sin Sot picture from one of the typical Thai-Thai weddings I’ve been invited to.

But do yourself a favour and read the two books, they may improve your understanding and be good help for a lucky Thai-relationship.

I wish you all the best for your future plans.

Your photo shows nothing more than a pile of money on a tray.

Ok it was a Thai/Thai wedding, the Thais know the score, no Thai man lost face by marrying beneath his status.

No mention made of who paid for the wedding, no mention made of who kept the envelopes,no mention made of what the groom was given in return, no mention made of whether she was second hand goods or not.

Many of these upcountry bumpkins measure wealth in terms of how many rai and how many buffalo, the illiterate think only in terms of yellow pieces of metal and yellow pieces of paper.

Dont see too many of my Bkk Thai friends beating a path up to Surin to pay 300k baht for Little Lek with two kids in tow, please maybe some of our more longer Thai residents can explain why.

Tell you what OP.

Take a trip down to your local bar and tell your friends you met some girl on the net from Tijuana with a kid in tow and a failing business.

Now tell your friends you fell in love and now send $1500 per month.

Now report back here and tell us what your friends back home say.

Dont want to hear any of the, they dont understand they have never been there crap.

Yeah your girl is different, a surefire keeper, get in there quick before some HiSo Thai from Bkk snaps her up.

[Hugh Jarse]

From what I read if she has been married before and has kids you should not have to pay anything.

In my experience no bride price is payable (spoilt goods ,plus she has a child to support) Suspect that the family are in dire financial straits hence these demands. Have you considered employing a private detective to find out whether the family have serious debts? I would in this situation. Be ultra cautious. You dont want to be saddled with her famil's debts (if any). Plenty more fish in the sea!

[sniffdog]

For $1500 per month I would love you too, and I am not even gay!

[rgs2001uk]

For $1500 per month I would love you too, and I am not even gay!

My bangkaew would love him long time for $100 a month, and he aint gay either.

[KIWIBATCH]

Your being suckered big time. You are only a cash cow, man up! Sinsod is never paid for a divorcee with a child. Look it up. Any relationship that begins with money is not real. You are paying way too much monthly. That is the reason that they think they can milk you big time. Would you pay this to get a white women? You left your brains on the train. Another sucker comes to Thailand, why do educated normal white guys lose their brains when it comes to Thai girls? You are a future victim, I await your sad story in the future. Read Thailand Fever.

absolutely 100% correct........best advice yet.......

Read the above post 5 times then go and sit down somewhere quiet on your own.....and think about exactly the corner you are being/have got yourself jammed into....whilst in the corner commence reading Thailand Fever.

Sorry to say this but I also await a future read of your sad story

[Loptr]

Your being suckered big time. You are only a cash cow, man up! Sinsod is never paid for a divorcee with a child. Look it up. Any relationship that begins with money is not real. You are paying way too much monthly. That is the reason that they think they can milk you big time. Would you pay this to get a white women? You left your brains on the train. Another sucker comes to Thailand, why do educated normal white guys lose their brains when it comes to Thai girls? You are a future victim, I await your sad story in the future. Read Thailand Fever.

absolutely 100% correct........best advice yet.......

Read the above post 5 times then go and sit down somewhere quiet on your own.....and think about exactly the corner you are being/have got yourself jammed into....whilst in the corner commence reading Thailand Fever.

Sorry to say this but I also await a future read of your sad story

The OP is in lurve. No amount of reasoning will sway his decision, even after coming here asking for advice. We all search for re-enforcement of our beliefs, but on the same note, we often refuse to accept advice that is outside our preconceived notions, whatever they might be.

Love is a chemically induced behavior which causes people to become OCD and do things they normally would not do out of common sense or rationale.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/article352.html

[bunter2000]

IZBBROKE

You have to listen the advice that is given here, Don't be a woman and by ruled by the emotion of the situation. Think like a man and logically evaluate the good advice you are getting. When I first moved to Thailand I nearly become another statistic you are about to apparently come. But in my case it was more the girl I met, I got down to my last AU$1000 before waking up to being scammed.

In your case, its the Mum that is insisting on the payment and I don't believe you are going to get any of the SINSOT back at the end of the wedding as you have admitted that you have to save for the Thai wedding, Sinsot, your bills and a HUGE monthly payment to the mum. Wow, man just reading that send shivers down my spine. Have you got a target on your wallet or what????

I too married a Thai and will admit she is a wonderful person and I love her dearly and we have been married over 8 years now and still extremely happy and I paid non of this because she had a previous marriage and a child. Her family is the best and they ask for nothing but they get help because the family they are.

You have to think about yourself and your future wife and dig in and say enough is enough.

For what it is worth here is my advice, as I see it you have 2 choices;

1. Seeing as you are paying for the wedding then the Sinsot is out of the question.

2. If sinsot is important and your future wife and mum can save face which is equally important then you pay for the sinsot and mum pays for the wedding out of the sinsod as it should be.

Even though the future wife is not a virgin etc I really think you are stuck with the sindot and with respect to your future wife and it will release a lot of tension for them as well in the eyes of the village/town.

BUT DROP THE MONTHLY PAYMENTS THAT IS REDICULOUS 10K to 15K Baht a month is plenty.

Forget the mums failed business as it is not your responsibility anyway. Thai business is a joke anyway I have never met a Thai that considers running a business for profit just the short term money in the hand at point of sale.

Good Luck you are going to need it

[wooloomooloo]

Has anyone asked how much sin sod is expected for the glorious day? Seems to have been conveniently omitted.

[notmyself]

Even though the future wife is not a virgin etc I really think you are stuck with the sindot and with respect to your future wife and it will release a lot of tension for them as well in the eyes of the village/town.

I agree, everyone will think the OP is a mug. Not one person will respect him and the family will gain massive respect from everyone because they have managed to turn him over.

[mdmayes]

How much is this sinsod that the mother is asking? You have left that fact out of your story.

[belg]

sin sod, sin sod

did the OP actually say how much ?

i could not find it ...

[bigdod]

I get the distinct feeling it's in the millions as he's been asked a number of times now and he's not come through with the info. Could be that he's beginning to feel like a bit of a Richard Head...?

[sabaidimai]

I suggest you read this a couple of times before deciding what to do

http://www.thethailandlife.com/sin-sod