The Shinawatras will not go down without a fight

[scorecard]

more garbage and propoganda from Thanong Khanthong and The Nation, the blatently pro yellow shirt newspaper.

Just your opinion.

I believe many many people would agree with this article, and of course you continue to try to

align all that's been happening in the protests to being a yellow activity. Wrong again and if you

don't know that it's more proof that your analysis is way off.

[Johnnie99]

How about this if Thaksin returns to Thailand to face his jail term. That should piss off Suthep. Thaksin would serve his two years in a 4 star jail have access to his people and just control this situation from within Thailand. The PTP will stay in power and once his term is up (out after 1 and half years for good behavior) he will be back free man. I love to see the face of Suthep if this happened.

Hope about Suthep organises an international press conference and makes such an announcement 'I will stand down when Thaksin returns to Thailand and goes to jail. There is no way Thaksin will ever see one day in jail. Suthep will not either.

However, most of us are no longer naïve enough to believe that the prison term of Taksin is the issue.

[Johnnie99]

How about this if Thaksin returns to Thailand to face his jail term. That should piss off Suthep. Thaksin would serve his two years in a 4 star jail have access to his people and just control this situation from within Thailand. The PTP will stay in power and once his term is up (out after 1 and half years for good behavior) he will be back free man. I love to see the face of Suthep if this happened.

Hope about Suthep organises an international press conference and makes such an announcement 'I will stand down when Thaksin returns to Thailand and goes to jail. There is no way Thaksin will ever see one day in jail. Suthep will not either.

However, most of us are no longer naïve enough to believe that the prison term of Taksin is the issue.

Can I ask why this post appeared TWICE?

[selftaopath]

They will be replaced by a different dynasty of crooks, again and again, until the essential reforms on power-diffusion and consensus-enhancement measures are enacted within Parliament, to prevent abuse of power by any group, and to enforce common-sense regulatory measures to all processes within Parliament. This family and others are just exploiting the unregulated nature of the system, it will continue until greater regulation is established.

Wisdom, indeed; if Thailand would only take heed.

[chainarong]

The Shinawtras are a long standing respected name in Thailand , I myself don't go out of my way to speak against the family, the family brings this on themselves, you see the big problem when it comes to Thai politics, it has not ventured very far from the Junta days, the Shinawatras are apart of this, rampant corruption, nepotism, thumbing the nose at courts and justice, riding rough shod over opponents, handling the truth carelessly, any opponents silenced or removed, TV , radio newspapers band or shut down, this is only the tip of the ice berg , the corrupt deal between Shincorp the Thai Gov and the Burma junta on electronic equipment, the shincorp making large profits, than before Thaskin was PM, like four times as much and don't forget our unpaid tax on a two billion dollar sale that caused the coup of 2006, the UN investigation into human rights violation by the Thaskin Shinawatra government , not everyone forgets the Shinawatras.

[LuckyLew]

IMO opinion he would rather cause of a civil war in Thailand than admit defeat

Really too bad he does not care at all about Thailand and its people

Hope the people up north see and realize this before it is too late

[Mystory]

Propoganda plain and simple - shame Thailand's media can't be independent.

Typical response.

When the Nation publishes an article that you like, you praIse it.

When it hits the nail on the head you deride it.

Which part of it do you disagree with?

Bitmaveric has not disagreed with the article, he stated that it is written in way of Propoganda, one sided, he has asked for the media to stay Neutral a fare comment as a lot of people believe what the media shows them. At the end of the day the media also decides the outcome for the people.

[icare999]

really you mean theirs ever been any chance Taksin would just do what is best for Thailand and go. Hes proved time and again he's willing to finance what can only be called mercenaries to cause mayhem. When will his supporters ever see he could not give a shit about anyone but himself and his clan and will do anything to take power.

For the good of Thailand he, his clan and cronies have to be totally defeated once and for all so Thailand can mover on.

However I expect Taksin to resort to any act however many are killed if it helps him get his goal.

IMO their is no way out of this except to defeat Taksin one way or another. IF he can he would prefer to cause a civil war instead of going peacefully.

IMO only army can save Thailand from turning into a Syria and I'm confident they will take over but only once it gets so bad they have no choice.

[pedro01]

there is only one outcome to all of this and it may be this year or in 10 years and that is Civil war.

Too many forigners commenting have absolutly no idea what they are talking about and really it is idiotic to read.

Everyone is entitled to comment here. Calling people idiots does nothing to give weight to your opinions.

Civil was is a possible outcome. I personally don't think it will come to that.

People are fickle. People's love for Thaksin could be wiped out fairly quickly given the right set of circumstances.

[scorecard]

While the brinksmanship is likely to continue between Shincorp and Suthep's merry band of fools eventually one side will have to retreat and lick their wounds.

At this point Suthep and the democrats have paint themselves into a corner they have turned a mild political conflict into a fight for their very political existence and relevancy. If Suthep backs down the Democrats will likely be a spent force in Thai politics unless a moderate like Korn can rescue them from their self imposed oblivion.

However if Suthep gets his coup the PTP and the red shirts have the option of biding their time and letting the current political problems blow up in the army's/Suthep's face. The rice mortgage scheme, the flood prevention plan, the 2 trillion baht infrastructure package are all ticking time bombs just waiting for someone stupid enough to get in their way.

For example.

The Rice mortgage scheme - If the new potential junta removes this policy the uproar will be enormous and it will likely cost the Democrats any chance at the rural vote when the next election finally comes around. However this policy is a catch 22, if you remove it you disenfranchise the farmers, if you don't you damage Thailand's economic credibility in the eyes of the world and more importantly the debt ratings agencies which could potentially inflate borrowing costs.

The flood prevention plan - If work is halted and there is another cataclysmic flood the army will be held responsible for any deaths and would have to deal with the PTP/Red shirt alliance howling for blood.

The 2 trillion baht infrastructure plan - This is possibly the biggest political time bomb of all, I know many foreign companies are relying on the projects slated to be paid for by this plan and if they don't eventuate investor confidence in Thailand will be decimated beyond their already depressed levels. Its bad enough for companies to deal with the excessive red tape and tea money to get anything done, however when a sitting governments word can't be taken on projects that are necessary for many companies continued/increased investment in the country all of Thailand will suffer.

You paint all of this to look like the suthep protests are the bad guys; suthep stopped the payments to the farmers, etc etc..

There is also clearly the possibility that a % of the public would expect / demand that these scams be stopped and probably replaced,

That doesn't mean that flood control measure should be scrapped. They are needed yes there could be flooding like 2 years ago, so

proper flood controls do need to be in place and fast.

But there is also a responsibility by whatever government to do it through agreed planning, proper consultation and public participation.

Another angle, if there was a major flood next season then whoever is in power could easily point their finger at the pt mob / blame the pt mob for:

- Their failure to do it without proper master and local planning

- Their attempts to circumvent / control public participation

- Do it without transparency

All causing needed delays to do it properly so that it has the best chance of being successful.

[GentlemanJim]

I put all this down to limited intelligence. If I had several billion dollars there would be no concern about me 'putting up a fight', I would have been long gone, probably would have commissioned the building of this.....

http://www.firebox.com/product/4893/Project-Utopia

fill it with hot women and lock myself away in my pleasure dome until i ran out of money or croaked it (the latter more likely to come first!!). Mind you with one of these Thaksin could really suit his image....the ultimate Bond Villain!

[Baerboxer]

How about this if Thaksin returns to Thailand to face his jail term. That should piss off Suthep. Thaksin would serve his two years in a 4 star jail have access to his people and just control this situation from within Thailand. The PTP will stay in power and once his term is up (out after 1 and half years for good behavior) he will be back free man. I love to see the face of Suthep if this happened.

DOH! What about his other little charges, like embezzling a billion baht, do you expect them to disappear?

Even if true, that would represent small change, a drop in the ocean, relative to the enormous wealth stolen from the Thai people by the very same groups and organizations seeking a return to power ( but led by "good people"). You are completely clueless when it comes to the realities of Thai politics and power over many decades. Not the vaguest idea other than simplistic and increasingly hysterical references to Thaksin. Why do foreigners become so obsessed with what is transitory and trivial and ignore the bigger picture of organized corruption on a mega-scale? Thaksin is not THE problem here. He is a thorn in the side of those who believe their time at the trough should continue unchallenged, almost by birthright

Oh well that's all ok then, Thaksin's just a petty criminal in your eyes. Slap him on the wrist, bring him home and let him continue with his thieving.

The answer is of course, as you say, that the country needs to reduce corruption and clean up the entire legal system. Do you think, for one second, that Thaksin or any of the Shin clan would be the people to do this? If so, then really, you have even less understanding of the reality here than many of your posts suggest.

[Tarric]

While the brinksmanship is likely to continue between Shincorp and Suthep's merry band of fools eventually one side will have to retreat and lick their wounds.

At this point Suthep and the democrats have paint themselves into a corner they have turned a mild political conflict into a fight for their very political existence and relevancy. If Suthep backs down the Democrats will likely be a spent force in Thai politics unless a moderate like Korn can rescue them from their self imposed oblivion.

However if Suthep gets his coup the PTP and the red shirts have the option of biding their time and letting the current political problems blow up in the army's/Suthep's face. The rice mortgage scheme, the flood prevention plan, the 2 trillion baht infrastructure package are all ticking time bombs just waiting for someone stupid enough to get in their way.

For example.

The Rice mortgage scheme - If the new potential junta removes this policy the uproar will be enormous and it will likely cost the Democrats any chance at the rural vote when the next election finally comes around. However this policy is a catch 22, if you remove it you disenfranchise the farmers, if you don't you damage Thailand's economic credibility in the eyes of the world and more importantly the debt ratings agencies which could potentially inflate borrowing costs.

The flood prevention plan - If work is halted and there is another cataclysmic flood the army will be held responsible for any deaths and would have to deal with the PTP/Red shirt alliance howling for blood.

The 2 trillion baht infrastructure plan - This is possibly the biggest political time bomb of all, I know many foreign companies are relying on the projects slated to be paid for by this plan and if they don't eventuate investor confidence in Thailand will be decimated beyond their already depressed levels. Its bad enough for companies to deal with the excessive red tape and tea money to get anything done, however when a sitting governments word can't be taken on projects that are necessary for many companies continued/increased investment in the country all of Thailand will suffer.

You paint all of this to look like the suthep protests are the bad guys; suthep stopped the payments to the farmers, etc etc..

There is also clearly the possibility that a % of the public would expect / demand that these scams be stopped and probably replaced,

That doesn't mean that flood control measure should be scrapped. They are needed yes there could be flooding like 2 years ago, so

proper flood controls do need to be in place and fast.

But there is also a responsibility by whatever government to do it through agreed planning, proper consultation and public participation.

Another angle, if there was a major flood next season then whoever is in power could easily point their finger at the pt mob / blame the pt mob for:

- Their failure to do it without proper master and local planning

- Their attempts to circumvent / control public participation

- Do it without transparency

All causing needed delays to do it properly so that it has the best chance of being successful.

Whoever is in power when bad things happen are the bad guys, if things blow up the way I described while the PTP are still in power then they will be the ones who will get the blame and face the backlash. A perfect example is the farmers who were protesting a few days ago about not being paid for their rice, they were protesting against the government not Suthep's mob despite them being directly responsible for the dissolution of parliarment.

However if the Suthep/The Army takes power they immediately become responsible for the country and all the ills that come up just like in any other nation.

Delays are politically unpopular, after all we're not talking about an ideal world and an entirely altruistic population here, we are talking about flawed selfish human beings who look out for themselves and their families first.

As surveys and polls have made clear most Thai's have very little interest in political issues as long as their lives aren't disrupted and they get what they believe is coming to them (this is true in countries all over the world not just Thailand) and if Suthep/The Army disrupts their lives they will ultimately pay for it when elections do happen again after any potential coup.

[noitom]

more garbage and propoganda from Thanong Khanthong and The Nation, the blatently pro yellow shirt newspaper.

But their desinee will be elected and the cycle will keep repeating.

[waza]

Thaksin is such a magnanimous character his empathy and charity is legendary, not. This is a guy who cares so much about himself that he happily has dragged his family down to his level of greed and corruption and he continues to align their fortune with his. He has given them no chance of escape they must either sink or swim with him. Any honourable man would have refused to put his family at risk, and bowed out of the public scene and let his sister run the government for the people instead of his risky agenda.

[Baerboxer]

Adul also admitted that the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers.

Well, "believed" is the operative word here, since there's no evidence they fired live bullets.

The problem is who to believe? Chalerm has already said the men on the roof of his own ministry building were Suthep's own 'agent provocateurs'! Not a far stretch of the imagination that there was the possibility one was taking potshots at protesters but as far as proof goes I for one doubt the truth will ever emerge.

Do some research on Chalerm and his family. Maybe that will help you decide on the likely truth in his comments.

[virtualtraveller]

Sounds like it's all over for the Shins, if you believe the Nation. For sure, their position is now severely weakened but they have plenty of money and vast Red shirt network, eventually there has to be an election and even if some rice farmers abandon them Peua Thai will return to power, they'll just find it increasingly difficult to get Thaksin home. Point being, Thaksin's personal goals have become baggage to the entire country, especially PT, the objective here is to show him just how destructive this all becomes in the name of Thaksin. When we reach virtual civil war, someone will manage to get him to back down. I'm guessing that the army won't go for a coup, they will sit back and watch it get messy until the 'most respected' guy in the nation has to get involved. There will be a caretaker govt, reform, exile for Suthep, an election, wings clipped, and eventually a promised pardon for Thaksin. Seems like a plan.

[kingstonkid]

------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- -------------------------------

Habs Just wondering are you beating a dead political horse or is that the futile attempt of the habs to be a hockey power again.

[geriatrickid]

Habs Just wondering are you beating a dead political horse or is that the futile attempt of the habs to be a hockey power again.

A team that has 8 players named to the Olympic roster suggests a force to be reckoned with.

Sort of like the Shinawatra clan. They have had their ups and downs, but only a fool would count them out.

The former PM Thaksin still has a few tricks up his sleeve. His has been uncharacteristically quiet for the last month.

[Nickymaster]

Thaksin is such a magnanimous character his empathy and charity is legendary, not. This is a guy who cares so much about himself that he happily has dragged his family down to his level of greed and corruption and he continues to align their fortune with his. He has given them no chance of escape they must either sink or swim with him. Any honourable man would have refused to put his family at risk, and bowed out of the public scene and let his sister run the government for the people instead of his risky agenda.

Correct, but don't forget that they all enjoy the wealth he gives them.

[jcb2001]

there is only one outcome to all of this and it may be this year or in 10 years and that is Civil war.

Too many forigners commenting have absolutly no idea what they are talking about and really it is idiotic to read.

I hate Thaksin for what he has done to immigration policys in Thailand ..this has damaged many familys for NO reason.

Thaksin is a meglomaniac plain and simple..what the hell does a man of almost 70 need more money or power for..answer he's sick

Clear all the Shinawatras out they are parasites living off the backs of decent Thais

Thai airways being privatized is his new little play thing..all to feed his buddys on Wall St as he did with Thai OIl

this post demonstrates the poorest understanding of Thailand and the issues facing it of all contributions, from red, yellow, neutral, clueless, over the past 3 months

Would you care to elaborate your understanding of who the Shinawatras really are? I guess you think Thaksin is actually good for the country.

[Nickymaster]

Habs Just wondering are you beating a dead political horse or is that the futile attempt of the habs to be a hockey power again.

A team that has 8 players named to the Olympic roster suggests a force to be reckoned with.

Sort of like the Shinawatra clan. They have had their ups and downs, but only a fool would count them out.

The former PM Thaksin still has a few tricks up his sleeve. His has been uncharacteristically quiet for the last month.

IMO, he has been very quiet because that is the only way he can still have a place to stay. If he opens his mouth, he might have to go live with his eternal friend and corrupt business buddy Hun Sen.

In general, countries don't like divisive people like Takki Shinegra to use them as a base to cause more division and hatred.

http://www.dahlina.com/news/thaksins-new-name-takki-shinegra.html

[Rob8891]

Adul also admitted that the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers.

Well, "believed" is the operative word here, since there's no evidence they fired live bullets.

The problem is who to believe? Chalerm has already said the men on the roof of his own ministry building were Suthep's own 'agent provocateurs'! Not a far stretch of the imagination that there was the possibility one was taking potshots at protesters but as far as proof goes I for one doubt the truth will ever emerge.

WHAAAAT???

The Labour Ministry was guarded by police, so it is most unlikely that protestors had just wandered in for a spot of roof-top mayhem, as claimed by Chalerm.

Adul had admitted that the MiB were actually some of his officers

.....and you have a problem with who to believe????????

Given Chalerm's propensity for violence, and his allegiance to Thaksin, given the admission by Adul and given the police guard around the Ministry, it should not be too hard for you to see where the laws of probability will lead you.

[dansan]

Propoganda plain and simple - shame Thailand's media can't be independent.

I have to disagree. I see no propaganda whatsoever in that article. I think your being a little unfair on the Nation.

Sure they are biased but this report basically tells it like it is. Even the Prayuth bit, anyone watching or reading the news would have noticed a significant change in his tone and messages.

Thaksin and his ilk massively over reached with the pushing through of that Charter Bill.

All commentators pretty much agree and most can't really work out why he could have been so dumb as to have walked into a trap like this.

From his desperate actions to push that through he has now set off a chain of events that will undoubtedly end up with those 308 MPs being banned plus the Senate bunch.

PURGED!

It's the easiest way for the powers that be to clear house. Hell it's the only way they have.

And no... I am not for either side, I find it all rather aggravating that these two sides are using the country and it's people as cannon fodder for their miserable end games.

[hansnl]

more garbage and propoganda from Thanong Khanthong and The Nation, the blatently pro yellow shirt newspaper.

I think it would be advisable for you to read the article again, and again, and again.

Maybe it might work better if you switch on your brain before attempting to read, understand and react.

The article states facts and does not express propaganda.

And indeed, Mr T will do anything, including destroying this country.

[Nickymaster]

Adul also admitted that the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers.

Well, "believed" is the operative word here, since there's no evidence they fired live bullets.

The problem is who to believe? Chalerm has already said the men on the roof of his own ministry building were Suthep's own 'agent provocateurs'! Not a far stretch of the imagination that there was the possibility one was taking potshots at protesters but as far as proof goes I for one doubt the truth will ever emerge.

You are really wrong edwin. Even though the police chief has already explained the situation you still believe that there is a possibility Chalerm was speaking the truth. Please inform yourself better before posting.

[animatic]

"...The Constitutional Court has blocked Pheu Thai's attempt to exert complete control over the Senate so that it might gain more influence over appointments to independent bodies..."

This was the final piece of the totalitarian control puzzle,

and this has just been yanked back from their grasping talons.

These moves from the bought and paid for parliament to then take over the checks and balances

would have been a death-nell for Thailand's freedoms.

But all the shills whine loudly like this is really about Suthep being some fascist,

as if we have not been in the grip of real fascists the last few years, trying to wrest full control,

and no oversight by anyone, from the people. Yes corruption is endemic, but less corruption is still less,

and preventing TOTAL take over without ANY recourse, is still better than letting them have their way.

[Emptyset]

Propoganda plain and simple - shame Thailand's media can't be independent.

I have to disagree. I see no propaganda whatsoever in that article. I think your being a little unfair on the Nation.

Sure they are biased but this report basically tells it like it is. Even the Prayuth bit, anyone watching or reading the news would have noticed a significant change in his tone and messages.

Thaksin and his ilk massively over reached with the pushing through of that Charter Bill.

All commentators pretty much agree and most can't really work out why he could have been so dumb as to have walked into a trap like this.

From his desperate actions to push that through he has now set off a chain of events that will undoubtedly end up with those 308 MPs being banned plus the Senate bunch.

PURGED!

It's the easiest way for the powers that be to clear house. Hell it's the only way they have.

And no... I am not for either side, I find it all rather aggravating that these two sides are using the country and it's people as cannon fodder for their miserable end games.

Well, Thanong says in the article: 'From the above, it is clear that Thaksin and Yingluck have lost the legal battle. There is no chance that their returning to political power, except via a coup.' Yet, even if the 308 MPs are banned, it doesn't result in a People's Council. My impression is they can still contest the election, but may be barred from taking their seats should NACC rule against them. Then you've got the Senate stage and court stage to go through to know whether they'll be banned. If they're barred from taking their seats, that will only result in more by-elections and parliament has 180 days to form government I believe (from memory).

So yes, it's still not clear how you get from court action to council without military intervention or article 7. But article 7 requires a vacuum and I believe Yingluck is obliged to stay on as caretaker by the constitution, until the next government is formed. So where's the vaccuum as long as the caretaker government remains?

And the idea that there could be a pro-Thaksin coup is just nuts. It's still the government who hold the cards unless the military are willing to intervene as far as I can see. For the court intervention, it surely only works if the Democrats were contesting the election, then they might be able to arrange something like they did in 2008.

[theslime]

Adul also admitted that the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers.

Well, "believed" is the operative word here, since there's no evidence they fired live bullets.

The problem is who to believe? Chalerm has already said the men on the roof of his own ministry building were Suthep's own 'agent provocateurs'! Not a far stretch of the imagination that there was the possibility one was taking potshots at protesters but as far as proof goes I for one doubt the truth will ever emerge.

Your head is cracked , sutheps followers just causually got on the roof of Chalerms Ministry , fired shots and calmly walked out, sounds like the twilight zone or maybe they had a transporter, like on the star ship enterprize, I doubt the truth will be forthcoming.especially if its from a pollie.

[Thait Spot]

Propoganda plain and simple - shame Thailand's media can't be independent.

Typical response.

When the Nation publishes an article that you like, you praIse it.

When it hits the nail on the head you deride it.

Which part of it do you disagree with?

Bitmaveric has not disagreed with the article, he stated that it is written in way of Propoganda, one sided, he has asked for the media to stay Neutral a fare comment as a lot of people believe what the media shows them. At the end of the day the media also decides the outcome for the people.

I shall assume that BM has delegated some form of authority for you to answer on his behalf!

I'm not convinced that propaganda is something that the English press is a particularly effective media for.......