Wife been made bankrupt in Thailand

[wedge1]

Ok guys here's a scenario..

My Thai wife divorced her ex-husband in 2001. It was a quickie divorce with no solicitors involved, the two children were divided one each. They had a property which was in my wifes name, her ex-husband and his sister. My wife decided to give the property to her ex-husband as she had made no financial contribution to the bank repayments. Unfortunately my wife only made a verbal agreement about this (stupid I know).

In 2002 she married myself and we have lived in the u.k ever since. Today my wife received a phone call out of the blue from her ex- husband to say that he was now bankrupt and hadn't been paying repayments on the house for a long time. The case had already been to court and all three owners of the property had been made bankrupt.

My wife has now been informed from an unreliable source that at worst she could face arrest in Thailand for failing to attend the court hearing, or be refused entry or problems when leaving Thailand. The sum owed is approx. 800,000thb and we have no way of paying this. Anybody have any experience like this? For those of you with a thai wife who has been married before here's a warning!!

Thanks in advance for your input

Edited January 10, 2014 by wedge1

[rgs2001uk]

In whose name is the mortgae and who is the guarantor?

Sounds like the sister of the ex husband was the guarantor.

Ignore it, not your problem, not your wifes problem.

My Thai wife divorced her ex-husband in 2001. It was a quickie divorce with no solicitors involved

Was your wife ever officially married, eg registered at the amphor or was it a village wedding (not officially married)?

They had a property which was in my wifes name, her ex-husband and his sister.

They didnt have any property, they had a loan.

In whose name/names were the loan?

[wedge1]

Thanks for your reply. My wife said there were three names on the loan and she thinks ( not sute) nobody guaranteed it. She originally married at a bangkok registery office.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[donniereadit]

Don't respond to the ex-husband, and don't reveal any info, addresses, email etc to him or anyone that calls. People try this to get proof for the court that you know about the problem.

You can deal with it directly with the court if they ever find you. Keep all assets in your name and out of Thailand.

Edited January 10, 2014 by donniereadit

[wedge1]

One other thing to mention is that my wife will be travelling to Thailand with a british passport. My wife is worried that even though she has a british passport she could still have problems at passport control because of the bankruptcy.

[rgs2001uk]

Today my wife received a phone call out of the blue from her ex- husband

How would the ex husband even know her contact details?

Without seeing the original loan document all we can do is speculate.

As an ex wife she is no longer responsible for her former husbands debts.

Tell the ex to send any correspondace to a lawyer.

2001 'til now is 13 years, a bank wouldnt have allowed the loan to go unpaid for that long.

Sounds like the ex is skint and is clutching at straws.

[FiftyTwo]

she cant own property, bank account or vehicle in thailand for 10 years.

they will write a letter to her tabian baan address each year asking for the money.

the three peope affected are husband, wife, garantor for loan.

thats it, no other problems.

my misses was in the same boat

not sure about leaving the country, as my wife never tried.

my wife was approved for a new home loan, 3 months after the ten years ran out.

never paid a baht back on the original debt for which she was garantor.

arrest for loan not attempted

Edited January 10, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[FiftyTwo]

other points rgs brought up.

home loan can last 30 years, if he stopped paying two years ago, timing is right.

the whole 800k wont be outstanding, house will be sold eventually.

children may have kept in contact

wife may have kept in contact with kid or former

wife is most certainly liable for joint home loan.

[wedge1]

Thanks for the input guys. As we have no immediate plans to live in Thailand it's just the passport control bit she is worried about. Will she be allowed to exit Thailand? My wife does have contact with her ex-husband as he is the father of her two children from that marriage.

[Beetlejuice]

Thanks for the input guys. As we have no immediate plans to live in Thailand it's just the passport control bit she is worried about. Will she be allowed to exit Thailand? My wife does have contact with her ex-husband as he is the father of her two children from that marriage.

I do not understand what you mean that your wife has been made bankrupt?

It makes no difference as to your wife`s marital situation. As she did not make a legal agreement to transfer the loan completely over to her ex-husband, sister in law or both of them, than the fact is her name is still on the loan agreement with the two other parties, meaning she is legally responsible for a third of the loan of whatever is her percentage of the said loan she agreed to pay and therefore owes the balance due of her share for the amounts of the accrued arrears, regardless whether she lived in the property or not.

But being in debt is not a criminal offence, the most the bank can do is obtain a court judgement and repossess the property if your wife and the other parties involved can prove they have no financial means to pay. The ex husband and his sister may try to lay blame on your wife, claiming that they did not make a verbal agreement regarding the loan repayments, she left them high and dry and that your wife left the country in order to avoid paying her share of the loan, which means she had no intentions of paying back her loan with intent, and that`s criminal. As her husband your assets, savings and earnings can also be taken into account by the court as a means to pay back the loan.

What this amounts to is that your wife has made a cock up and now you have 2 choices: first your wife could contact the loan company or bank and make an offer to pay off the loan arrears by monthly instalments, the amounts can be negotiated with the loan company, or ignore the situation and hope for the best, which you do at your own risk and discretion. Whatever, your wife legally owes that money and now it`s up to you.

[sustento]

Thanks for the input guys. As we have no immediate plans to live in Thailand it's just the passport control bit she is worried about. Will she be allowed to exit Thailand? My wife does have contact with her ex-husband as he is the father of her two children from that marriage.

I do not understand what you mean that your wife has been made bankrupt?

It makes no difference as to your wife`s marital situation. As she did not make a legal agreement to transfer the loan completely over to her ex-husband, sister in law or both of them, than the fact is her name is still on the loan agreement with the two other parties, meaning she is legally responsible for a third of the loan of whatever is her percentage of the said loan she agreed to pay and therefore owes the balance due of her share for the amounts of the accrued arrears, regardless whether she lived in the property or not.

Depends on the loan agreement. If it was a 'joint and several' agreement all borrowers are responsible for all of the loan. The lender can pursue any one of them for the full amount.

[Beetlejuice]

Thanks for the input guys. As we have no immediate plans to live in Thailand it's just the passport control bit she is worried about. Will she be allowed to exit Thailand? My wife does have contact with her ex-husband as he is the father of her two children from that marriage.

I do not understand what you mean that your wife has been made bankrupt?

It makes no difference as to your wife`s marital situation. As she did not make a legal agreement to transfer the loan completely over to her ex-husband, sister in law or both of them, than the fact is her name is still on the loan agreement with the two other parties, meaning she is legally responsible for a third of the loan of whatever is her percentage of the said loan she agreed to pay and therefore owes the balance due of her share for the amounts of the accrued arrears, regardless whether she lived in the property or not.

Depends on the loan agreement. If it was a 'joint and several' agreement all borrowers are responsible for all of the loan. The lender can pursue any one of them for the full amount.

Yes, of course it all depends what is exactly written in the loan agreement and also what was decided in the court judgement. But nevertheless, I would not want to have something like this hanging over me and best to get the situation sorted rather than ignore it.

But as I said previously, how the OP and his wife go about this is up to their own risk and discretion. Good luck to all who sail in her.

[FiftyTwo]

Alll are liable for the whole amount.

Note to op

Just to point out, as the debt was accumulated after you marriage, you are also 100% liable too.

The repayments were missed after your marriage, so you cant own anything in thailand either.

Would have been differert if court order issued and payments missed before you were married.

Edited January 11, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[beachproperty]

No expert on Thai law.....but I believe "bankrupt" is the wrong word.

The property was "foreclosed"...ie. the real estate was seized by the lender according to law. Depending on if Thailand has a anti-defiencency law (ie if lender forecloses that is their only recourse! They get the land and that's it. Can't sue for the loan, the difference, nothing ...just get the property for which they can sell and take a loss or profit).

If no anti-defiencency law.....they could possibly get a judgement for the difference between the loan and what the property sells for (if and when property sells...not easy selling property in Thailand)....and NOT a judgement for the WHOLE loan

Bottom line ....a lot of bunk being advised above....

Talk to a Thai lawyer (Not TV).....Yeah it might cost you a little but knowing the TRUE situation which will give you some peace one way or the other is worth it.

Edited January 11, 2014 by beachproperty

[briboy]

mate just be careful of what you write on here as the ex is most likely a member and is watching very very closely at what is being said by you, I personally would close the topic, but as they say "up to you"

[meatboy]

this sounds like a clear case of thai finds a farang,thai divorces thai husband,runs off with the farang but lets her ex.stay in the home plus her sister-in-law,moves to the uk.and takes no responsibility for any debt she's left in thailand.farang doesnt know about all this untill the ex wants her to pay off the mortgage if there is one,or he wants to borrow her atm card.as she has left one of her kids in thailand this does sound like dont worry i will provide i have farang husband.but she now finds out farang has no money to help her,so now she is off to thailand by plane i supose not cheap,will she come back that is the question the op.needs to be alert and not get tango'd.good luck.

[wym]

My advice - if you're not planning on returning to live here, doing business, buying assets etc in Thailand, then in practice you can just ignore it.

If you are planning the above, and/or want to be safer, it won't cost you much to get advice from a decent lawyer in Thailand. The hardest part is finding one that is trustworthy that doesn't charge international rates.

Best would be if your wife could pursue contacts through her friends and family back here without the lawyer knowing about you or the fact she's living overseas. Difficult perhaps but probably worth if if you do decide to pursue things and accumulate dozens/hundreds of billable hours.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it at all, but them I"m pretty skint.

[wym]

Yes of course it could be the wife scamming her mate, but from my reading I reckon the odds of that are low.

[simple1]

OP: have a look at a similar topic at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/390816-foreclosure-laws/

[beachproperty]

As pointed out by Simple1 the other thread points to

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code; Title XII, Mortgage; Chapter IV, Enforcement of Mortgage

Section 733. If the estimated value of the property, in case of foreclosure, is or the net proceeds, in case of auction, are less than the amount due, the debtor of the obligation is not liable for the difference.

Basicly its and anti-defeciecency law as pointed out earlier

Soooo .....no money owed!

Edited January 11, 2014 by beachproperty

[muratremix]

If you buy a home with mortgage and fail to pay 3 months installments consequently, bank takeovers your home and kicks you out. Same goes for car, you buy something with downpayment, you miss 3 payments in a row, they take over your car and give you nothing.

Perhaps you are being scammed?

[CraigSchuler]

So I assume your wife is now a citizen of the UK correct?

[Jeffrey346]

I don't know if this is accurate as my wife has a similar situation. The bank foreclosed and sold the property for B500,000 less than what was due.

Since my wife works for the Government, the bank came after her and not her X as she has a verified income. The bank got a court order stating she is responsible for the difference in what the bank is due [b500,000] from the original mortgage and threatened to force her into bankruptcy if she refuses to pay.

Thai law states that if a Govt Employee goes bankrupt, they will be fired and lose all accumulated Gov benefits including her pension.

If this law [733] is being interpreted properly, why would the court side with the bank and order her to pay?

[tetleythedog]

In whose name is the mortgae and who is the guarantor?

Sounds like the sister of the ex husband was the guarantor.

Ignore it, not your problem, not your wifes problem.

My Thai wife divorced her ex-husband in 2001. It was a quickie divorce with no solicitors involved

Was your wife ever officially married, eg registered at the amphor or was it a village wedding (not officially married)?

They had a property which was in my wifes name, her ex-husband and his sister.

They didnt have any property, they had a loan.

In whose name/names were the loan?

The best advice mate is ............don't believe ANYTHING they tell you, it's ALWAYS wrong. They couldn't organise the proverbial "piss-up in a brewery" !!!

[jacko45k]

Today my wife received a phone call out of the blue from her ex- husband

How would the ex husband even know her contact details?

Without seeing the original loan document all we can do is speculate.

As an ex wife she is no longer responsible for her former husbands debts.

Tell the ex to send any correspondace to a lawyer.

2001 'til now is 13 years, a bank wouldnt have allowed the loan to go unpaid for that long.

Sounds like the ex is skint and is clutching at straws.

Well since she has been taking care of one of his children and vice versa that is not beyond belief.

You would be surprised how many older loan default properties are held by banks and even have renting tenants in them.

[mokwit]

No expert on Thai law.....but I believe "bankrupt" is the wrong word.

The property was "foreclosed"...ie. the real estate was seized by the lender according to law. Depending on if Thailand has a anti-defiencency law (ie if lender forecloses that is their only recourse! They get the land and that's it. Can't sue for the loan, the difference, nothing ...just get the property for which they can sell and take a loss or profit).

If no anti-defiencency law.....they could possibly get a judgement for the difference between the loan and what the property sells for (if and when property sells...not easy selling property in Thailand)....and NOT a judgement for the WHOLE loan

Bottom line ....a lot of bunk being advised above....

Talk to a Thai lawyer (Not TV).....Yeah it might cost you a little but knowing the TRUE situation which will give you some peace one way or the other is worth it.

Does this apply to auto loans as well? i.e. if finance company reposesses car can they still go after the borrower for the difference between subsequent sale price of reposessed car and outstanding loan or as per your property example above. do they just get the car and that is it - no further recourse?

[oogster8]

I don't know if this is accurate as my wife has a similar situation. The bank foreclosed and sold the property for B500,000 less than what was due.

Since my wife works for the Government, the bank came after her and not her X as she has a verified income. The bank got a court order stating she is responsible for the difference in what the bank is due [b500,000] from the original mortgage and threatened to force her into bankruptcy if she refuses to pay.

Thai law states that if a Govt Employee goes bankrupt, they will be fired and lose all accumulated Gov benefits including her pension.

If this law [733] is being interpreted properly, why would the court side with the bank and order her to pay?

this is a good law....................lol. force people to be responsible. wonder if it works though?

[brianP]

Don't open any emails that could get legal proceedings started too.

[beachproperty]

No expert on Thai law.....but I believe "bankrupt" is the wrong word.

The property was "foreclosed"...ie. the real estate was seized by the lender according to law. Depending on if Thailand has a anti-defiencency law (ie if lender forecloses that is their only recourse! They get the land and that's it. Can't sue for the loan, the difference, nothing ...just get the property for which they can sell and take a loss or profit).

If no anti-defiencency law.....they could possibly get a judgement for the difference between the loan and what the property sells for (if and when property sells...not easy selling property in Thailand)....and NOT a judgement for the WHOLE loan

Bottom line ....a lot of bunk being advised above....

Talk to a Thai lawyer (Not TV).....Yeah it might cost you a little but knowing the TRUE situation which will give you some peace one way or the other is worth it.

Does this apply to auto loans as well? i.e. if finance company reposesses car can they still go after the borrower for the difference between subsequent sale price of reposessed car and outstanding loan or as per your property example above. do they just get the car and that is it - no further recourse?

As I said ....I am no expert on Thai law...

Usually though ...the law with respect to Real Property (land) and personal property (car for example)...are different and same rules do not apply.

Simple answer though....I don't know...but I don't believe the same rules apply to cars

[Toscano]

My guess is the Ex husband has run out of money . He and his sister have not been paying off the loan

The house and land is foreclosed , so must be sold , banks are very capable of doing that themselves .

Play it cool , I doubt your wife will be refused exit on her return to Britain .

Stay well clear of ex husband and above all do NOT send or give him any money .