What does being called a Farang mean to you? Good or bad?

[rgs2001uk]

I'm thinking very few Asians are calling each other gooks.

Come down to Bkk and hear the terms used by Thais for other Thais, not exactly complimentary

I'm calling BS. I just asked the Thais in my household, then called a couple other more worldly ones, and NOT ONE had ever heard this word.

Maybe "your Thais" are well-educated English speakers? In which case your point has nothing to do with Thai culture, they've picked that up from watching Full Metal Jacket and Good Morning Vietnam.

then we can move onto the terms for Lao, Cambodian, and Burmese used by most Thais,just for starters.

I don't think anyone's trying to claim that Thais aren't horribly racist. However that has nothing to do with the linguistic discussion at hand wrt the word "farang".

Not quite; a racial term is a racial term; make up a new one and use it to refer to Thais; they wont like it I assure you

I dont like it when people are hypocrites; thats my point

We don't have to "make up a new one". We use the word "Thai" in English (not "kon Thai") to refer to Thais. Yes this is a racial term (to the extent people think Thais are a race, which of course Thais do). However - I sure hope you agree with this - the word "Thai" in English is a COMPLETELY NEUTRAL term, and is very very rarely used in a derogatory manner.

Now some NES think that Thailand is about nothing but the sex industry and kateuy, so it is POSSIBLE that they'd use the word "Thai" as a pejorative term. However you'd be able to tell from context, tone and body language that it was meant this way. Even if you lived within some subculture where such usage was relatively frequent, that would NOT make the term "Thai" itself into a derogatory word from a linguistic POV.

That is EXACTLY the situation with the word farang as used in the Thai language.

I'm calling BS. I just asked the Thais in my household, then called a couple other more worldly ones, and NOT ONE had ever heard this word.

What word would that be?

Please be more specific.

You live in Bkk I take it and have never hear such terms as, ee lao to refer to Issan people?

Maybe the Thais in your household are just to polite or embarrassed to tell you the racist undertones with which Thais refer to each other.

Ask the Thais, the more worldly ones about the terms used for Southern Thais, especially Muslims (ee dam).

May well be they are so embarrassed a farang actually knows these terms they would rather deny their existence.

Maybe "your Thais" are well-educated English speakers?

Far from it, in fact apart from a few none of them speak English.

[wym]

How the world works, it mainly works on violence and the threat of violence.

With almost every post, I'm constantly amazed at how exactly opposite our views are.

I will try to hold you in The Light, and pray you manage to have a decent life carrying that POV around, and that you die of old age, at peace with yourself surrounded by loving friends and family.

My belief system holds that you'll need to change that attitude in order to get that result.

[Jingthing]

I'm thinking very few Asians are calling each other gooks.

Come down to Bkk and hear the terms used by Thais for other Thais, not exactly complimentary

I'm calling BS. I just asked the Thais in my household, then called a couple other more worldly ones, and NOT ONE had ever heard this word.

Maybe "your Thais" are well-educated English speakers? In which case your point has nothing to do with Thai culture, they've picked that up from watching Full Metal Jacket and Good Morning Vietnam.

then we can move onto the terms for Lao, Cambodian, and Burmese used by most Thais,just for starters.

I don't think anyone's trying to claim that Thais aren't horribly racist. However that has nothing to do with the linguistic discussion at hand wrt the word "farang".

Not quite; a racial term is a racial term; make up a new one and use it to refer to Thais; they wont like it I assure you

I dont like it when people are hypocrites; thats my point

We don't have to "make up a new one". We use the word "Thai" in English (not "kon Thai") to refer to Thais. Yes this is a racial term (to the extent people think Thais are a race, which of course Thais do). However - I sure hope you agree with this - the word "Thai" in English is a COMPLETELY NEUTRAL term, and is very very rarely used in a derogatory manner.

Now some NES think that Thailand is about nothing but the sex industry and kateuy, so it is POSSIBLE that they'd use the word "Thai" as a pejorative term. However you'd be able to tell from context, tone and body language that it was meant this way. Even if you lived within some subculture where such usage was relatively frequent, that would NOT make the term "Thai" itself into a derogatory word from a linguistic POV.

That is EXACTLY the situation with the word farang as used in the Thai language.

Not even close! Thai would be equivalent to Malaysian both nation states with majority ethnic groups Thai and Malay respectively. The f word in question is not a nationality at all and refers to a wide range of ethnicities and nationals all over the world with only white skin in common.

The closest equivalent I know to the f word is the obsolete usage of the word ORIENTALS by Americans. The people being referred to with that term expressed objections to it and weren't stupid enough to use it themselves and the word is passe and people using it are suspect of ignorance and bigotry.

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Edited January 23, 2014 by Jingthing

[thailiketoo]

How the world works, it mainly works on violence and the threat of violence.

With almost every post, I'm constantly amazed at how exactly opposite our views are.

I will try to hold you in The Light, and pray you manage to have a decent life carrying that POV around, and that you die of old age, at peace with yourself surrounded by loving friends and family.

My belief system holds that you'll need to change that attitude in order to get that result.

Mr Fifty Two. Why do Quakers visit prisons? Hope you will pardon my asking below Wym because I agree with him.

[wym]

Not even close! Thai would be equivalent to Malaysian both nation states with majority ethnic groups Thai and Malay respectively. The f word in question is not a nationality at all and refers to a wide range of ethnicities and nationals all over the world with only white skin in common.

The closest equivalent I know to the f word is the obsolete usage of the word ORIENTALS by Americans. The people being referred to with that term expressed objections to it and weren't stupid enough to use it themselves and the word is passe and people using it are suspect of ignorance and bigotry.

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I did qualify with "for those who consider Thais a race" - which in fact the Thais do.

In reality the whole concept of "race" has no objective scientific meaning, it's just a social construct used for pigeonholing people in ways that make sense to that given language and (sub)culture.

The question of whether a term refers to nationality or "race" is irrelevant to the topic of discussion here which is "does that term have an inherent derogatory meaning?"

Oriental is a perfect example, thanks. The fact that it got phased out for "Asian" (same exact meaning just a different word) just because some do-gooder PC idiots thought it was offensive, is EXACTLY the western cultural idiocy I'm trying to show is behind the mistake so many make here about "farang".

Just because the group referred to gets "offended" by a word innocently used to classify them is NOT a reason to change the language.

It's the INTENTION that makes a word objectively offensive - "gook" being a good example.

There is some slight chance that the N-word at some point in US history, among some sub-cultures wasn't used perjoratively, but in fact in modern usage it became universally condemned because it was being used to denigrate people based on their race.

That is not the case here in Thailand wrt "farang", and in fact we are usually accorded much HIGHER status than most of us deserve, we benefit from Thai racism much more so than suffer from it.

Just get over yourselves honkeys, you're not all that!

[rgs2001uk]

Not even close! Thai would be equivalent to Malaysian both nation states with majority ethnic groups Thai and Malay respectively. The f word in question is not a nationality at all and refers to a wide range of ethnicities and nationals all over the world with only white skin in common.

The closest equivalent I know to the f word is the obsolete usage of the word ORIENTALS by Americans. The people being referred to with that term expressed objections to it and weren't stupid enough to use it themselves and the word is passe and people using it are suspect of ignorance and bigotry.

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I did qualify with "for those who consider Thais a race" - which in fact the Thais do.

In reality the whole concept of "race" has no objective scientific meaning, it's just a social construct used for pigeonholing people in ways that make sense to that given language and (sub)culture.

The question of whether a term refers to nationality or "race" is irrelevant to the topic of discussion here which is "does that term have an inherent derogatory meaning?"

Oriental is a perfect example, thanks. The fact that it got phased out for "Asian" (same exact meaning just a different word) just because some do-gooder PC idiots thought it was offensive, is EXACTLY the western cultural idiocy I'm trying to show is behind the mistake so many make here about "farang".

Just because the group referred to gets "offended" by a word innocently used to classify them is NOT a reason to change the language.

It's the INTENTION that makes a word objectively offensive - "gook" being a good example.

There is some slight chance that the N-word at some point in US history, among some sub-cultures wasn't used perjoratively, but in fact in modern usage it became universally condemned because it was being used to denigrate people based on their race.

That is not the case here in Thailand wrt "farang", and in fact we are usually accorded much HIGHER status than most of us deserve, we benefit from Thai racism much more so than suffer from it.

Just get over yourselves honkeys, you're not all that!

Oriental is a perfect example, thanks. The fact that it got phased out for "Asian" (same exact meaning just a different word) just because some do-gooder PC idiots thought it was offensive, is EXACTLY the western cultural idiocy

I was taught never to assume but to check, are you American?

Reason for asking, in the jolly old PC state that is now the UK, if my mrs was referred to as Asian she would be offended.

Simple reason , Asian would lump her in with those from the sub continent (gawd forbid anyone would think she was a kaek).

My mrs speaks bloody good English, in fact thanks to the Ozzies her English is better than it should be, she doesnt suffer fools or the bloody white middle class liberal academics than try to tell her her how she should think.

Last time we were in the Uk, warning for those of a PC mind PLEASE DONT READ, some Indian told her to "get out my way you stupid woman" the coloured dot on his head obviously made him think he was talking to some "untouchable", the mrs told him to eff you you P**i bastard, yes the mrs is well aware of the history of the two countries and said it deliberately to provoke this snob.

Others in the shop started laughing and pointing at the Indian racist/sexist, he soon left without so much as a by your leave, other women thanked the mrs for standing up to him.

We aint all from the good ole USSA.

[wym]

Yes, Yanks might lump Indians in with Asian, but more often would think middle-eastern like the Thais, and these days assume they're all terrorists.

I think the UK issue is just that you have such a large number of immigrants from the "west Asia" subcontinent, not as many from eastern Asia.

[Berkshire]

Yes, Yanks might lump Indians in with Asian, but more often would think middle-eastern like the Thais, and these days assume they're all terrorists.

I think the UK issue is just that you have such a large number of immigrants from the "west Asia" subcontinent, not as many from eastern Asia.

Yes, there is a big perception difference between the UK and US in this regard, something I was not aware of until I came to Thailand. In the US, Asians mean east Asians, e.g., Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc. Vietnamese, Thais, Filipinos are generally included, but not Indians and Pakistanis. The latter tends to be grouped with Arabs, as you say. I recall an Indian store clerk in Arizona who was mistaken for an Arab after 9/11 and got severely beat-up. Americans aren't perfect.

In the UK, it seems the term Asians refer to Indians and Pakistanis mostly. Not sure what they would call the Chinese, Japanese, etc.

[wym]

I'm sure Asian also includes the eastern countries as well in academic/journalism written usage, I believe the "only west Asia" usage is only a spoken trend. . .

If farang raises eyebrows I'm sure many would say racism's involved there too 8-)

[HardenedSoul]

Yes, Yanks might lump Indians in with Asian, but more often would think middle-eastern like the Thais, and these days assume they're all terrorists.

I think the UK issue is just that you have such a large number of immigrants from the "west Asia" subcontinent, not as many from eastern Asia.

Yes, there is a big perception difference between the UK and US in this regard, something I was not aware of until I came to Thailand. In the US, Asians mean east Asians, e.g., Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc. Vietnamese, Thais, Filipinos are generally included, but not Indians and Pakistanis. The latter tends to be grouped with Arabs, as you say. I recall an Indian store clerk in Arizona who was mistaken for an Arab after 9/11 and got severely beat-up. Americans aren't perfect.

In the UK, it seems the term Asians refer to Indians and Pakistanis mostly. Not sure what they would call the Chinese, Japanese, etc.

"Orientals" mostly

[Berkshire]

Yes, Yanks might lump Indians in with Asian, but more often would think middle-eastern like the Thais, and these days assume they're all terrorists.

I think the UK issue is just that you have such a large number of immigrants from the "west Asia" subcontinent, not as many from eastern Asia.

Yes, there is a big perception difference between the UK and US in this regard, something I was not aware of until I came to Thailand. In the US, Asians mean east Asians, e.g., Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc. Vietnamese, Thais, Filipinos are generally included, but not Indians and Pakistanis. The latter tends to be grouped with Arabs, as you say. I recall an Indian store clerk in Arizona who was mistaken for an Arab after 9/11 and got severely beat-up. Americans aren't perfect.

In the UK, it seems the term Asians refer to Indians and Pakistanis mostly. Not sure what they would call the Chinese, Japanese, etc.

"Orientals" mostly

Really? That term is considered outdated in the US, somewhat derogatory, but not hugely so. I also noticed that the English use the term "Jap" quite liberally. That term would be considered offensive in the US.

[IMA_FARANG]

If you are born in the U.S. they call you an American.

If you are born in the U.K. they call you English.

(That includes you Scots, Welsh, Irish, and so on also).

Aussie are just a variant of English.

If you are black, you are an African.

Then there is the Indians (can be from any country just as long as their skin is brown in color).

And of course an Arab is anyone who wears a robe or a headscarf if she is female.

And therefore, a light skinned European looking person in Thailand is a Farang or Falang

All those terms are just a catch-all you can throw people into that look outwardly the same without thinking to much about it.

Simpler that way, you don't have to bother to think to deeply about anything, just slot everyone into one of the preconceived slots and then go back to being "comfortably numb" as Pink Floyd said in one of their songs.

[Hedghog]

It is just a descriptive word for the fair skinned folk visiting this country.

At least you are not being hounded by people wearing hoods and bearing burning crosses,along with the hangman's noose.

You may talk to whoever you like,regardless of race.

You may travel on public transport,with many different races.

You don't walk in fear,of being attacked because of the colour of your skin.

The police don't beat you to death for no reason except the fact your a nxxxxr/cxxn.

You falang /Farang should get a grip on reality.

It is after all only a word.

Sticks and stones.

[Berkshire]

It is just a descriptive word for the fair skinned folk visiting this country.

At least you are not being hounded by people wearing hoods and bearing burning crosses,along with the hangman's noose.

You may talk to whoever you like,regardless of race.

You may travel on public transport,with many different races.

You don't walk in fear,of being attacked because of the colour of your skin.

The police don't beat you to death for no reason except the fact your a nxxxxr/cxxn.

You falang /Farang should get a grip on reality.

It is after all only a word.

Sticks and stones.

That's what I keep telling these guys. But they seem determined to be offended. Well, only the tiny minority on TV. In real life, it would be difficult to find a farang who's really bothered by this term. At least I haven't met any.

[transam]

It is just a descriptive word for the fair skinned folk visiting this country.

At least you are not being hounded by people wearing hoods and bearing burning crosses,along with the hangman's noose.

You may talk to whoever you like,regardless of race.

You may travel on public transport,with many different races.

You don't walk in fear,of being attacked because of the colour of your skin.

The police don't beat you to death for no reason except the fact your a nxxxxr/cxxn.

You falang /Farang should get a grip on reality.

It is after all only a word.

Sticks and stones.

That's what I keep telling these guys. But they seem determined to be offended. Well, only the tiny minority on TV. In real life, it would be difficult to find a farang who's really bothered by this term. At least I haven't met any.

Nor me. Folk who do have a problem in their angry gray cells.............

[tw25rw]

It's just a word. It's like being called white or Caucasian. It doesn't carry any other connotations unless the user adds them.

[Hedghog]

I wonder.

Over the years,the people offended by the word Falang have made deliberate racist remarks in their lifetime.

Relating to, Chinese,Japanese,Mexican,Vietnamese,German,people,the list goes on.

Now the boot is on the other foot.

They are offended,by an innocent descriptive word.

[wym]

All the UK media website sections about this part of the world - both west and east sides - use ./asia for that section.

[driedmango]

yes once at a market i wasn't happy to overhear falang when walking by, another time this guy and his GF said falang out of the blue walking by, they were pissed to see white people in their thai only area... racism, sure, i just thought of all the rednecks in my home town that say Asian and get mad about asians when they see them.. F them all...

[wym]

[thepanom]

The Thai people call us a farang.

The Thai government call us a alien!!!

I have more problem with being called a alien then a farang

[Jingthing]

yes once at a market i wasn't happy to overhear falang when walking by, another time this guy and his GF said falang out of the blue walking by, they were pissed to see white people in their thai only area... racism, sure, i just thought of all the rednecks in my home town that say Asian and get mad about asians when they see them.. F them all...

Yes that's menacing. A good example of a context that is less than neutral.

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[wym]

My first thought was he's being totally paranoid, quite likely he didn't actually observe any evidence of their attitude other than his assumption about the word.

From his other posts I'd guess his manner, body language, facial expression may well cause people to react to him negatively.

I've NEVER come across this attitude of "thai only" area, usually when I'm the only farang around they're extra friendly.

Brothels with underage girls are an exception, their BiB owner/partners don't allow it, they know welcoming farang customers will only bring trouble.

[thailiketoo]

yes once at a market i wasn't happy to overhear falang when walking by, another time this guy and his GF said falang out of the blue walking by, they were pissed to see white people in their thai only area... racism, sure, i just thought of all the rednecks in my home town that say Asian and get mad about asians when they see them.. F them all...

Yes that's menacing. A good example of a context that is less than neutral.

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I was on a crowded song tau and a tough looking student yelled at a smaller student get up and give your seat to the Farang. Is that also an example of less than neutral or would that be more than neutral?

[FiftyTwo]

The Thai people call us a farang.

The Thai government call us a alien!!!

I have more problem with being called a alien then a farang

I always thougt "alien" was a Thai/English translation mistake.

"con dtaag dow" with one accent on the "dow" is foreigner, a different accent on "dow" makes it "alien"

[Bantex]

Call me anything you want except early in the morning.

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[jonesthepost]

Farang is a great word only a bunch of P.C. wackos would think its racist

[wym]

The Thai people call us a farang.

The Thai government call us a alien!!!

I have more problem with being called a alien then a farang

I always thougt "alien" was a Thai/English translation mistake.

"con dtaag dow" with one accent on the "dow" is foreigner, a different accent on "dow" makes it "alien"

"Alien" is a perfectly normal everyday term of law in English

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(law)

I don't think these

Aliens Act 1905

British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914

were referring to extraterrestrials

[CryWolf]

Once called a black guy an African American... Turned out he was from Finland, and owned a tanning business

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[Jingthing]

Farang is a great word only a bunch of P.C. wackos would think its racist

Who said the word itself is racist? The point is in real life it's often used rudely, crudely, and sometimes hatefully. So the context matters.

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