We want our rice back, plus compensation, angry Thai farmers say

[Tywais]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

As long as the rice is stored properly it will not rot and can last indefinitely.

I agree their demands do sound fair.

The rice does not last indefinitely ---it slowly deteriorates ---it wouldn't last indefinitely if it was cooked and deep frozen.

Like everything it has a storage life, IF it is stored properly. Do you think all these mountains of rice is stored properly ??? some are in warehouses in heaps, open to vermin, birds, damp you name it.

Not indefinitely of course but for quite a while, much longer than it currently has been stored. Lots of variables though such as storage temperature, moisture and amount of oxygen. Brown rice has a much shorter storage life than white though.

Storage Conditions. The best temperature to store grains, including rice, is 40°F or below; however, rice stored at a constant 70° F with oxygen absorbers will store well for up to 10 years. In cooler storage areas rice sealed in oxygen-free containers can be stored for up to 30 years. A B.Y.U. study sampling polished rice and parboiled rice stored from 1 to 30 years found that both types of rice will keep their nutrients and flavor up to 30 years.

Utah State University

[soalbundy]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

All well and good IF the government and the economy can support those subsidies.

Obviously that is not the case here.

There seems to be enough money available for an aircraft carrier that they can't use,submarines that they don't need and modern fighter aircraft. Thailand,although it sometimes behaves as if it is,is not a third world country.There is a lot of money dumped for all sorts of favourite projects,some worthy,some not, and if the rice subsidies were handled correctly (and here correctly is the operative word) i see no problem with it. The assured steady income of a large portion of the population can only help the economy not destroy it. The key to the success of such a scheme is of course minimal corruption (no i don't work for Walt Disney )

[ginjag]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

As long as the rice is stored properly it will not rot and can last indefinitely.

I agree their demands do sound fair.

The rice does not last indefinitely ---it slowly deteriorates ---it wouldn't last indefinitely if it was cooked and deep frozen.

Like everything it has a storage life, IF it is stored properly. Do you think all these mountains of rice is stored properly ??? some are in warehouses in heaps, open to vermin, birds, damp you name it.

Not indefinitely of course but for quite a while, much longer than it currently has been stored. Lots of variables though such as storage temperature, moisture and amount of oxygen. Brown rice has a much shorter storage life than white though.

Storage Conditions. The best temperature to store grains, including rice, is 40°F or below; however, rice stored at a constant 70° F with oxygen absorbers will store well for up to 10 years. In cooler storage areas rice sealed in oxygen-free containers can be stored for up to 30 years. A B.Y.U. study sampling polished rice and parboiled rice stored from 1 to 30 years found that both types of rice will keep their nutrients and flavor up to 30 years.

Utah State University

My point is -the government in majority of cases are NOT storing it properly under the conditions you state.

The info from Utah is useful to persons wanting to know how to store.

So why didn't PTP get this info from Utah the same as you. If they knew their job. But having a inexperienced PM -come defence minister, and chairperson on the rice committee what else can you expect.

You cannot expect Nigerians to know how to build an IGLOO.

[casualbiker]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

Can you tell us more about the Democrats rice guarantee scheme .. that seemed better planned. More like a subsidy scheme. Thanks

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MMarlow]

Sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. I didn't say anything about cooking and deep forzen, if it's uncooked it will last.

I worked in the rice industry for over 15 years in the engineering of storage, processing, conveying, packaging etc. As I stated if stored properly it can last indefinitely. I didn't say anything on how the govt is storing it was I making a comment that rice will not rot if stored properly.

Well that's nice by the text book, however the reality is that most if not all of it is not being stored properly and there have been many photos on this and other websites / TV news items etc etc showing that it's not being stored properly. End of story.

End of story? Maybe the end as far as your story is concerned, but Ericthai's point was valid.

[JJttttt1]

this rice pledging scheme is complete nonsense. Why should the government waste the money of other taxpayers to support ineffective farmers? If they can't make profit with present market prices they should sell there land to people who can organize more effective way of production.

why should, for example, factory workers pay there tax to support farmers? Who don't the government support factory workers too? I am sure they want a better life too!

[DLock]

Bla, bla, bla...stop talking about it and do something.

You aren't going to get paid. Stop making demands.

Rise up against the regime.

[MMarlow]

I count 8 farmer looking people in that photo and one very expensive white car, presumably the PR man writing this.

Toyota Corolla. You have a strange idea of very expensive.

[JRSoul]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

Besides your claim that EU farmers are subsidised, can you give me any valid reason why tax from efficient industries should be handed to you? Let's call it vote-buying and theft of government resources that could be much better spent.

[Gweiloman]

this rice pledging scheme is complete nonsense. Why should the government waste the money of other taxpayers to support ineffective farmers? If they can't make profit with present market prices they should sell there land to people who can organize more effective way of production.

why should, for example, factory workers pay there tax to support farmers? Who don't the government support factory workers too? I am sure they want a better life too!

All around the way, various govts have social programs in place to shore up inefficient and unprofitable but essential services, for the good of all.

Incidentally, the minimum wage scheme supports factory workers in the hope that they can have a better life too.

P/s: with your "humanitarian" approach, you do not deserve to use IK's picture as your avatar.

[TVGerry]

this rice pledging scheme is complete nonsense. Why should the government waste the money of other taxpayers to support ineffective farmers? If they can't make profit with present market prices they should sell there land to people who can organize more effective way of production.

why should, for example, factory workers pay there tax to support farmers? Who don't the government support factory workers too? I am sure they want a better life too!

All around the way, various govts have social programs in place to shore up inefficient and unprofitable but essential services, for the good of all.

Incidentally, the minimum wage scheme supports factory workers in the hope that they can have a better life too.

P/s: with your "humanitarian" approach, you do not deserve to use IK's picture as your avatar.

Yeah but 'various' governments don't actually steal from their own social programs and screw it up so bloody badly that they end up making the lives of the people they're supposedly helping worse. The PTP is soooooooo humanitarian!

[ginjag]

Sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. I didn't say anything about cooking and deep forzen, if it's uncooked it will last.

I worked in the rice industry for over 15 years in the engineering of storage, processing, conveying, packaging etc. As I stated if stored properly it can last indefinitely. I didn't say anything on how the govt is storing it was I making a comment that rice will not rot if stored properly.

Well that's nice by the text book, however the reality is that most if not all of it is not being stored properly and there have been many photos on this and other websites / TV news items etc etc showing that it's not being stored properly. End of story.

End of story? Maybe the end as far as your story is concerned, but Ericthai's point was valid.

It is the "end of story" The said rice on the whole is spoilt and is NOT stored properly.

I didn't disagree about how it should be stored, I pointed out how it is stored and who is responsible for that.

Again you jumped in with both feet-- WE know his point is valid GET IT.

Again I have asked you several times-on other topics also- to give your opinion why it is NOT stored properly, and who is responsible for doing this.

Then we can discuss. you do not discuss you come in and point this out and run.

[meand]

Meand, most agricultural products anywhere are paid for on a long term basis - after the product has been sold. The government is the seller here, but as we all know doesn't have a market for the rice and already lied about it. The main buyer - China just has to sit and wait until the price is cheap enough. India ,Vietnam and other countries must be laughing as they will be taking a large chunk of the market. Ongoing Thai exports are in trouble. Middlemen are not really the issue,

The farmers now saying they will take 9,000 baht are not bargaining - they are desperate as they have to pay the loans for the new kubotas - around 1.1million each, agrochemicals, pick ups, and all the other production costs. They haven't got the income. The next thing that will happen will be large scale loan defaults. Problem for the lenders - even if they repossess rice land they can't do anything with it,or sell it on, as only the farmers know how to use it. Farmers will soon take action in a big way against this government.

I have seen with my own eyes people take rice into a facility and leave with cash in hand, but perhaps most of the selling is done via the govt as you say, and they pay later. I guess I was confusing what i saw with all situations.

[Gweiloman]

this rice pledging scheme is complete nonsense. Why should the government waste the money of other taxpayers to support ineffective farmers? If they can't make profit with present market prices they should sell there land to people who can organize more effective way of production.

why should, for example, factory workers pay there tax to support farmers? Who don't the government support factory workers too? I am sure they want a better life too!

All around the way, various govts have social programs in place to shore up inefficient and unprofitable but essential services, for the good of all.

Incidentally, the minimum wage scheme supports factory workers in the hope that they can have a better life too.

P/s: with your "humanitarian" approach, you do not deserve to use IK's picture as your avatar.

Yeah but 'various' governments don't actually steal from their own social programs and screw it up so bloody badly that they end up making the lives of the people they're supposedly helping worse. The PTP is soooooooo humanitarian!

That's a different issue to what's being discussed here. Please try to stay on topic.

[TVGerry]

this rice pledging scheme is complete nonsense. Why should the government waste the money of other taxpayers to support ineffective farmers? If they can't make profit with present market prices they should sell there land to people who can organize more effective way of production.

why should, for example, factory workers pay there tax to support farmers? Who don't the government support factory workers too? I am sure they want a better life too!

All around the way, various govts have social programs in place to shore up inefficient and unprofitable but essential services, for the good of all.

Incidentally, the minimum wage scheme supports factory workers in the hope that they can have a better life too.

P/s: with your "humanitarian" approach, you do not deserve to use IK's picture as your avatar.

Yeah but 'various' governments don't actually steal from their own social programs and screw it up so bloody badly that they end up making the lives of the people they're supposedly helping worse. The PTP is soooooooo humanitarian!

That's a different issue to what's being discussed here. Please try to stay on topic.

It's not a different issue because the fact that the farmers are suffering like this is because the PTP government screwed up something that was supposed to make their lives better. Now things are worse for them. This with taxpayer money. Hundreds of billions of dollars gone. Number 1 producer of rice, now number 3. And still rice farmers are broke. Great job there, PTP!

[BlueNoseCodger]

It's not a different issue because the fact that the farmers are suffering like this is because the PTP government screwed up something that was supposed to make their lives better.

Yet if Suthep hadn't done his march the November 14th bond sale would have been a success and they would have been paid.

You can see from the low numbers in the protest photograph, the PR man photographed it, then wrote his story to submit to the press, The press don't send people up country for a 10 person turnout!

"Quick send the Helicopters and satellite news teams, 10 farmers have an opinion! Get our finest report on the task!".

See? Someone organized a protest, it got a crap turnout, only a few people fooled, PR man makes best of it, takes the photograph, writes the press release anyway, yellow newspapers try to make the best of it.

This with taxpayer money. Hundreds of billions of dollars gone. Number 1 producer of rice, now number 3. And still rice farmers are broke. Great job there, PTP!

Hundreds of billions of dollars done? Gone where? What hundred of billions of dollars?

Better to get elections over with then the EC blockade on payments ends, and the rescheduled bond issue (which happened in January) can be paid out to farmers.

Edited January 28, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[ironhorse10]

I think the rice farmers would be better off forming a co-op and sell their rice to the highest bidder, maybe they have already done that. I hope they get what they have coming to them. And extra money for the delay as promised. But what do I know.

[TVGerry]

It's not a different issue because the fact that the farmers are suffering like this is because the PTP government screwed up something that was supposed to make their lives better.

Yet if Suthep hadn't done his march the November 14th bond sale would have been a success and they would have been paid.

You can see from the low numbers in the protest photograph, the PR man photographed it, then wrote his story to submit to the press, The press don't send people up country for a 10 person turnout!

"Quick send the Helicopters and satellite news teams, 10 farmers have an opinion! Get our finest report on the task!".

See? Someone organized a protest, it got a crap turnout, only a few people fooled, PR man makes best of it, takes the photograph, writes the press release anyway, yellow newspapers try to make the best of it.

This with taxpayer money. Hundreds of billions of dollars gone. Number 1 producer of rice, now number 3. And still rice farmers are broke. Great job there, PTP!

Hundreds of billions of dollars done? Gone where? What hundred of billions of dollars?

Better to get elections over with then the EC blockade on payments ends, and the rescheduled bond issue (which happened in January) can be paid out to farmers.

Baht not dollars. Miswrite.

And the farmers were owed since October, even before the first protests started. It's typical of the PTP and their supporters to once again, blame others for their incompetance and failure.

[Mosha]

It's not a different issue because the fact that the farmers are suffering like this is because the PTP government screwed up something that was supposed to make their lives better.

Yet if Suthep hadn't done his march the November 14th bond sale would have been a success and they would have been paid.

You can see from the low numbers in the protest photograph, the PR man photographed it, then wrote his story to submit to the press, The press don't send people up country for a 10 person turnout!

"Quick send the Helicopters and satellite news teams, 10 farmers have an opinion! Get our finest report on the task!".

See? Someone organized a protest, it got a crap turnout, only a few people fooled, PR man makes best of it, takes the photograph, writes the press release anyway, yellow newspapers try to make the best of it.

This with taxpayer money. Hundreds of billions of dollars gone. Number 1 producer of rice, now number 3. And still rice farmers are broke. Great job there, PTP!

Hundreds of billions of dollars done? Gone where? What hundred of billions of dollars?

Better to get elections over with then the EC blockade on payments ends, and the rescheduled bond issue (which happened in January) can be paid out to farmers.

Then why did the idiots wait until they had no power to get the money? It has got sod all to do with Suthep!

[Mosha]

I think the rice farmers would be better off forming a co-op and sell their rice to the highest bidder, maybe they have already done that. I hope they get what they have coming to them. And extra money for the delay as promised. But what do I know.

At the very least they'll get a reality check. Or should that be cheque?

[kingalfred]

Its one almighty disaster and if the PM had any principles(other than the ones that we know about) should resign along with a few dozen others.but she hasn't and she/they wont

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[sam sen]

My question is, why did they give the rice without payment. I am not in this industry, but I thought the way this worked was you bring the rice in, they weigh it and pay you. Why give it without the payment?

Maybe they believed in what Yingluk promised them

some people dont have any rice, they never had any rice, they just have the paperwork that says they had some rice. thats how part of the scam works

[Gweiloman]

All around the way, various govts have social programs in place to shore up inefficient and unprofitable but essential services, for the good of all.

Incidentally, the minimum wage scheme supports factory workers in the hope that they can have a better life too.

P/s: with your "humanitarian" approach, you do not deserve to use IK's picture as your avatar.

Yeah but 'various' governments don't actually steal from their own social programs and screw it up so bloody badly that they end up making the lives of the people they're supposedly helping worse. The PTP is soooooooo humanitarian!

That's a different issue to what's being discussed here. Please try to stay on topic.

It's not a different issue because the fact that the farmers are suffering like this is because the PTP government screwed up something that was supposed to make their lives better. Now things are worse for them. This with taxpayer money. Hundreds of billions of dollars gone. Number 1 producer of rice, now number 3. And still rice farmers are broke. Great job there, PTP!

Was not going to bother to reply but having just finished my tam pu pla khao niaw lunch, I'm feeling more generous.

I was replying to the poster who said that the rice pledging scheme is nonsense and that the govt should also assist other sectors of the economy. I responded by saying that other govts also have programs in place that are non-profitable but essential for society. Neither his post nor mine touched on the incompetency of the PT govt to execute this scheme.

If you want, then engage in a debate on which policies are good / bad. Don't hijack every post just to score cheap points.

[tim armstrong]

There is no doubt that the rice pledging scheme was/is one huge disaster designed to get votes, by the government and civil servants who didn't have the faintest idea about rice farming, or agricultural economics. Thaksin maybe many things but he is not a farmer. But having lied and connived,the government is now stuck with a long term rice mountain, ( remember the butter mountain in Europe years ago), that they cannot shift.

The time had to come when farmers had to accept the 'real' world price for rice. Unfortunately, they borrowed on the idea of the gov't higher price and no production ceiling. So now they are in the shit. Maybe they should have seen this coming, but like farmers the world over - most of them probably have zero interest in where the rice goes, and who pays for it, as long as they are paid. The farmers were encouraged to get into debt and to just keep producing, and they bought the idea. Somewhere, somehow they will get paid, and magically, before 2 February, because the gov't will have got the money from the banks and other lenders. - the same lenders that have financed the farmers new kubotas! But farmers have long memories, and I doubt that they will support the government anymore.

[soalbundy]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

Can you tell us more about the Democrats rice guarantee scheme .. that seemed better planned. More like a subsidy scheme. Thanks

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes,the method used by the Democrats was much better in that it was sustainable and didn't bankrupt the

state.

We received 2000 Baht for every rai of land that we used for rice growing.The rice was sold by us to the millers as per usual so the Democrat method was a subsidy to make up for the often low price that the millers gave us. We rented out some land to other farmers in our village,in that case we only received 500 Baht per rai and the farmer renting received 1,500 Baht. The end result wasn't as much as we s h o u l d be getting now but we were satisfied, it was worthwhile planting rice.

Another positive aspect was that because we were selling to the millers they would pay the best price for good quality so everyone made an effort to produce quality rice,the Yingluck system was really only about quantity so of course the quality suffered.

[Thai at Heart]

I don't know if any of you have actually done any rice farming.I have,with the missus,and although she with my son, own over 200 rai which is far more than most farmers own,i can tell you its not a good earner. The outlay for plowing costs,combine harvester costs,buying fertilizer and pesticides is very high. Add to that the transportation costs to the barn from the fields and the hard work of drying the rice,without the rice pledging scheme it isn't worth it,especially when you consider the risks of a bad harvest (flooding or drought).

The farmers in Europe and America are subsidized, i see no reason why the farmers of Thailand shouldn't enjoy the same benefits. The fact that the system is open to corruption is not the fault of the farmers. Better controls are needed and a realization that the rice will be sold at a loss, call it an equaling out of the disparity between the living standards in Bangkok and Isan.

All well and good IF the government and the economy can support those subsidies.

Obviously that is not the case here.

Instead of buying the stuff at an inflated price and hoping to squeeze the market, they should simply have paid a per rai subsidy. however of course, no guarantee that would be much less corrupt than what happens now.

[TVGerry]

Was not going to bother to reply but having just finished my tam pu pla khao niaw lunch, I'm feeling more generous.

I was replying to the poster who said that the rice pledging scheme is nonsense and that the govt should also assist other sectors of the economy. I responded by saying that other govts also have programs in place that are non-profitable but essential for society. Neither his post nor mine touched on the incompetency of the PT govt to execute this scheme.

If you want, then engage in a debate on which policies are good / bad. Don't hijack every post just to score cheap points.

Touching on the incompetency of this government to carry out non profitable scheme is on point. Why bother wasting tax payer money on something to help society when it doesn't actually help society?

[rogerdee123]

The demands sound fair enough, provided the rice hasn't yet rotted away.

They want the new seasons rice back not the old stuff.

That will continue to rot away as nobody wants it.

yes at least ....

or they could ask for their exact rice ... not just the same amount from the stockpile

[Scamper]

The Yingluck administration has been deaf to protest from all sectors of Thai society. They have dragged their heels on reform, and they have dragged their heels on anything that punctures their many capers of corruption. But here - here this has their rapt attention. They are struggling at lightning speed to plunder 33 national banks in Thailand of 130 billion baht within the next few days. This Bonnie and Clyde plunder of the remaining monies under the public trust in governmental institutions is not happening without resistance. The EC says no - it is an infraction of election law. The NACC says no - they are investigating proceedings of impeachment against Yingluck and many others in the administration over this very issue. The banks themselves have vehemently said no. But Pheu Thai is plunging ahead anyway, propelled by the desire to secure as many votes as money can buy, and confident that the banks will relent in the end to governmental " persuasion " and the brazen confidence of a Bonnie and Clyde heist - and one in broad, broad daylight. Pheu Thai is desperately in a hurry to add just one more article of impeachment before this unprecedentedly empowered caretaker administration is thrown into perpetual caretaker status - to squeeze every ounce of cash that they can find - filling every sack available with bills - with only one purpose in mind. For the furtherance of democracy.

[SABloke]

The farmers clearly know where the blame lies.

Clearly they don't read the distortions of some within this marvellous forum

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No - this is clearly just a propaganda piece by the Nation. There are no angry farmers - everything peachy