Red wave set to swamp Bangkok

[kikoman]

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

Again you post fooliness,at a time that the people that care about Thailand and "all" of its people, Should clearly advocate the peaceful solution to the present crises.

Thailand does not need war because the rights of the voting majority is cast away again by a military coup or the corrupt court system, all who care about Thailand pray that cooler heads should prevail and make a settlement that conforms to the Thai Constitution and the rule of law for the benefit of the total nation.

The article is a clear warning to the elite and the military, do not mess with the will of the majority, as expressed in an free and open election!

Cheers

Thaksin Shinawatra is NOT a majority he is not even a THAI CITIZEN since he was impeached for corruption

After Thaksin has been out of office and Thailand since 2006, this election is not about him it is Suthep and the Democrats grab for power, there are more changes pending in the Constitutional court for corruption against Abhisit and the Democrats, then there is against Yingluck, PTP made a major miscalculation and pushed through the Amnesty bill.

Suthep saw an opening he could wedge himself into, Your great Dear Leader was a member of the house for 34 years, and in 2008 the Democrats were in power and could have addressed the Corruption issues at that time, Why did they not, revise the laws when they were in power. PM Yingluck only crime that she was in office when the Democrats made that grab for power! They did not have enough dirt on her so they dragged her brother into the fray, but she has been kicking their butts in every battle.

Much like all of us Farangs we are not a majority and were not Thai citizens, only many of us enjoy ,peeing into the wind, a word of caution, do not talk during the process!

Cheers

[mikemac]

If those do come to Bangkok ... I'll recommend to the gf that there is an untapped market maybe selling ageless face-cream to our friends from the north ...

They just look old from working hard to keep the rich BKK elite in the lifestyle they demand.

Seems you have that completely ass backwards since the entire rice scheme was paid for by tax payers money and ipso facto the rich 'elite' you reds keep bleating on about( actually more likely the middle classes as the rich can manipulate their monies to avoid tax )....The 'elite's tax money has been keeping the reds in the lifestyle they are demanding for the last 2 years till the caretakers stopped paying 6 months ago.

Yea I agree the rich elite charge them to go through their garbage bins. What a load of crap and nonsense most of the farms are now owned by the rich elite and these people lease them to scrape out a small living of scraps. It is the elite in BKK who are making the money not the farmers. Many of the wharehouses also own the farms and those that own the wharehouses are living in BKK and reaping all the rewards dinning and living off the work of the rural folk.

The same happens in Australia, China owns huge amounts of rural/agricultural property and the profits go to china. America owns the majority of beef properties the work done by aussies and the profits to the U.S.

Same in Thailand the elite own the land the farmers do the work and the elite reap 99% of the profits.

Chooka, you do realize of course that a lot of these "rich elites" you keep crapping on about are members of or supporters of PTP, don't you ?

Or are you silly enough to believe they are all yellow flag wavers ? And all the PTP people drive old Toyotas pickups and live in bamboo shacks.

They say if you throw enough red mud some of it will stick, well it sounds like you are covered in it mate.

[LevelHead]

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

Yes Taksin did some bad things, everybody knows all about them.

But he should have been voted out !!

Not thrown out through a coup and ignore the voice of the masses.

Three times already !

Everybody calls them dumb and ignorant but wonders why they are fed up with it.

Taksin plays a dirty game using these people, i fully agree, but the old elite plays a dumb game ignoring them.

And this is the result.

As said before, i feel very sorry for this beautiful country !!

Before I said it is a choice between bad (dems) and superbad (shinas). The shinas raised corruption to an exceptional level. Allowing them to go on would mean many more billions thrown away in the rice scam and the go ahead for the 2.2 TRILLION loan. That would mean an incredible national debt that would haunt the taxpayers for decades.

If chose the dems then they can be much easier replaced when something better comes into politics. And that for sure will happen. If chose the shinas, the cancer will spread more and more beyond cure. Corruption will spread deeper and deeper.

I share your regret for the country. But Thailand and Thai people remain beautiful and resourceful. They deserve better than now and in the past. And they will get it. The country will be back on top of the world as a rice selling country and in many other ways standards will go up too. But keeping the shinas would be disastrous. Trace where the taxpayer's money went and perhaps billions can be brought back.

Have long have you been here ?

Corruption was at its very worst long before Thaksin. Massive massive corruption.

The reason the whole country in effect voted in TRT and Thaksin was to reduce corruption. They thought he was already massively rich and he would therefore distribute money to all the people, not just keep filling the pockets of the Bangkok elite.

He did that, people all over the country benefited. The health care scheme, money being spent on new roads and airports all over the country. Bangkok finally after about 40 years of corruption got its new airport built.

Corruption fell under TRT and things actually started to get done, Thailand boomed............

But this made him a very popular man in Thailand. TOO POPULAR.

And what happens to popular people who threaten "old money" is they get taken out, they get disgraced with fake charges, they have massive propaganda against them and get killed or exiled. Its happened in many countries all over the world throughout time.

If you had been in Thailand in the 1970's and 1980's you would know the real meaning of corruption on a massive scale.

All of course, in my opinion.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory, off topic and nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

[Showbags]

Tell that to my Thai wife parents who took a loan from the great Taskin Loan scheme

and 3 years later when the could not pay it back the government threw them out onto the street and took there homes

Yes taskin was great for issan, maybe in your dreams

Perhaps they should not have taken the loan if they could not afford to pay it back...duh

You should have quit while you where ahead, your comments show you have now knowledge of Taksins corruption

So a quick lesson for you

when Taskin was coming to power he got all the village head men together and offered million Baht loans to the people

These people where farmers and had no idea about these government loans, in fact they where told these loans where from the government to help them farm better, they had no idea it had to be paid back

and when the loans where needed to be paid back many farmer had no idea what they had signed

My thai wife tells me all the time many Issan girls have no idea that the have to pay back monies on credit cards in 2013

they all believe a present is a gift, why they must pay back

This is Thailand the country I love, not the country that makes sense

One day you will understand like most intelligent Expats do

Make a loan to a Thai and you will never see the money again

Onya Tezza...so they all believe in fairies raining down cash onto them...good one.

By the way, have loaned out cash before and have got it back.

I see you have very little experience with Thai people

I wonder how many others have been as lucky as you

Please write a book on how you did this

it will make you a small fortune

will be a top seller

I would say your wife mixes in rather low circles if all of them think like that.

[Trembly]

A Short history.

Once upon a time there was a country called Thailand.

The people lived in 3 regions: North East (Thai Isaan) North ( Thai Lanna) and south ( Thai Bangkok Phuket)

Like the former Yugoslavia these diverse groups got on quite well for a very long time.

But then a major commercial dispute arose which led to blood on the streets of Bangkok.

The leader of the nation came from Thai Lanna ( Thaksin) The Bangkok Phuket Thai took him to the courts on the basis of the fact that he was practising corruption as leader whereas the Thai Bangkok Phuket argued they had had the copyright rights on corruption since before Thaksin was even born.

These legal procedings went on for several years and people started to hate each other South to North. Then the hatred spread, Foreign expats who had married southern ladies started to hate foreign men who had married into Thai Isaan families.

Sadly the hatred spread and spread because no one in Thailand at that time had read the words of Nelson Mandela: "If I hate, I am no longer a free man"

In the meantime Thaksin was sentenced to jail for breach of the corruption copyright laws.

But he developed a cunning plan in leaving the country before the lock could be turned.

He never returned, he was no simpleton and had studied the history of the Philippines and knew when the highly charismatic Benigno Aquino returned from exile he was shot getting off the plane. to make sure he was really dead they shot him again. Thaksin knew all this. So he asked his sister to act as his agent.

Then a great leader arose in the south. He decided that the Thai Lanna and the Thai Isaan should not be allowed to vote.The reasons were that it would waste their time which should be better spent tending the rice crop. There was also a suggestion that he would command them to plough up the ricefield and plant palm trees.

Finally the people of Thai Isaan and Thai Lanna became bored, frustrated and angry. Rather than listen to speeches against them and their former leader they packed their bags and decided to start their own country. It was hard work at first but they thought it better to work hard than spend the time shooting at their neighbours. However luck was to arrive in the form of peace treaties and trade agreements with China which by then had become the world's economic superpower. Touriism, agriculture, casinos and industry flourished, seeing all this the Shan State of Mynamar seceded and together with the country of Laos formed the United States of North Thailand. The people were unified, prosperous and happy.

Prof,

1. Thaksin isn't Lanna. He's Thai-Chinese and can hardly speak a word of Kam-Mueang.

2. Bangkok is part of the Central region, not the South.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Trembly

[HaleySabai]

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

....so is that really THE issue?..... there is no shortage of farang who,like a small frog at the bottom of a well look up and think the blue sky they see is all there is. How is it possible to factually understand what is going on in a political spectrum when the only people you can communicate with are bar-girls??? its all guess work at best.

[Cricketnut]

Heres the last wave of red democracy - this is how Shinawatras protect their bank accounts - and they say its for democracy!!!!!!!!!

nice photo from a gallery... Didn't you note the moderaters message re flaming...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[HaleySabai]

Corruption was at its very worst long before Thaksin. Massive massive corruption.

The reason the whole country in effect voted in TRT and Thaksin was to reduce corruption. They thought he was already massively rich and he would therefore distribute money to all the people, not just keep filling the pockets of the Bangkok elite.

He did that, people all over the country benefited. The health care scheme, money being spent on new roads and airports all over the country. Bangkok finally after about 40 years of corruption got its new airport built.

Corruption fell under TRT and things actually started to get done, Thailand boomed............

But this made him a very popular man in Thailand. TOO POPULAR.

And what happens to popular people who threaten "old money" is they get taken out, they get disgraced with fake charges, they have massive propaganda against them and get killed or exiled. Its happened in many countries all over the world throughout time.

If you had been in Thailand in the 1970's and 1980's you would know the real meaning of corruption on a massive scale.

....finally someone who does have a clue.

[Cricketnut]

I'm not sure that this is the point. They had been neglected for so long since 1932. Bangkokians have enjoyed far better services and living standards its not funny. I don't see this in red or yellow. We need to understand what only Thaksin did for the people of the north and northeast to realise this. 17 times the amount of government services in and around Bangkok compared to the North.. And now people trying to stop them and others from voting. This is not Democratic. I think we can lay the blame at successive governments who have spurned the people who are at fault. This is not so much about Thaksin but rather a semblance of democracy that I think the people desire. Not the elite of Bangkok infringing upon their rights. Be he good bad or ugly for all of Thaksins faults he did connect with the people. The Democrat's have not and cannot until they participate in the democratic process. In short Thailand needs to usher in a constitution that benefits all the people even the minority. Maybe they could take a leaf out of Australian or New Zealand democracy and copy this. But until both sides stop wanting power and money, it will be the people who revolt as we are seeing today and especially in the last 10 years. Marginalisation is Thailand's biggest problem as is the Ammarts, police, military and the judicial system. Their will be no real peace for any Thai until these items can be addressed. The revolution will continue until an equal balance of power and reform has been achieved. A rough road lies ahead.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I definitely can agree with your point. I have traveled extensively, lived and worked in many various countries with various cultures and religions. Elitism is looking down on others in all cultures; Western countries, in the Arab world and Asian/SEasian region.

I like your point made that Taksin (no matter how bad he can/could be) seems a people person. He connected to the rural areas and that is today clearly seeing in the support for him and his family. I would wish that other politicians (not only in Thailand) would have the same ability.

Regarding corruption, this is a difficult and endless subject. The world has for the past several hundred of years tried to abolish it - to no avail. When I speak to Thais who support Suthep, I hear sayings like: "we are all corrupt, Suthep would take 30% and give 70 to the people but Thaksin takes 70 and gives 30 to the people". Or, "I am a business man and I am also corrupt. Would I not being, I could not pay salaries or feed my family".

So I am confused on the purpose of the demonstrations. I think the demonstrators are mixing with the wrong elements that creates a non reliable view. Because;

-- you ride the wave with the devil

-- you are corrupt yourself

-- you demand to abolish corruption

Something is wrong in this. You can't ask for something that you yourself are not clean with. Also you can't have or follow a leader who is what you claim you want to fight. This makes the whole thing a farce and gives an unreliable picture. And just because I am not Thai and seem (according to Thais) "not to understand" Thai politics does not make my point go away. Because of this I am not trusting anything will change should the Government step down. Especially I don't trust Suthep who I consider to be a typical arrogant politician (just look at his body language alone - it tells books).

In all my professional life, I have never paid money. That is why my friends complain that I am "not successful" and rich.

I am of an older Generation. I have seen the '68, the '70s up to this modern time. All demonstrations I can remember who where violent turned bad for the Demonstrators - they lost it at the end. Unfortunately, modern times is giving us en even more troubled picture of what could happen. Syria is in ruins and Egypt is back to square one because the elected president had a religious (power grab) agenda and was unable to admit a secular politic for all.

Further I am a strong believer in Non-Violence. I wont get tired of telling this to everyone. This is why I believe that the only option to finding a solution is:

-- [1] sit down at the round table and TALK

-- [2] open the ballot box and VOTE.

It is maybe not the easiest way as all have to interact, all have to make concessions, all have to drop the mentality of "I take it all", all have to think as a team. We have lost the ability to sit and talk (Discuss, Debate, Dispute). This is why all seems stuck and no one is willing to move away from old positions.

Breathe of fresh air(s) of thinking blowing out the foul air of the impudent, Lord of the Flies, I failed critical thinking in school, foreigner crowd. Thank you.

Further, only to add one of my favorite triads wished for improving Thailand's political future "Adopt, Adapt, Improve".

Oh I like this "Adopt, Adapt, Improve" view. That reminds me of the early push of Japans economy through innovation. The Japanese went to every single exhibition equipped with Notepad and cameras. They looked at every little item of a new product. Back home, they made that product (adopted), they adjusted it for the new market (adapted) and today we see all those high tech gadgets leading the market (improved).

It would be really good if Thailand and Thais would adopt other options - not only in business but also in politics, education, attitude. First of all to start with is in the usage of other Languages. -- Ok that is way of from the topic.

Thanks I travel now, putting as simply as possible, the majority of Thais are OK with a little graft, the problem seems to be that Thaksin swallowed the whole mango tree and left no fruit for the other elitists to nibble from, thus creating many enemies in Bangkok amongst the Ammarts and the military. It is the elitist influence that needs to be stripped to the bone and years of education that may at last let true democracy rise in Thailand. Until then, the powers that be on all sides want their money and it is that simple.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[LevelHead]

Corruption was at its very worst long before Thaksin. Massive massive corruption.

The reason the whole country in effect voted in TRT and Thaksin was to reduce corruption. They thought he was already massively rich and he would therefore distribute money to all the people, not just keep filling the pockets of the Bangkok elite.

He did that, people all over the country benefited. The health care scheme, money being spent on new roads and airports all over the country. Bangkok finally after about 40 years of corruption got its new airport built.

Corruption fell under TRT and things actually started to get done, Thailand boomed............

But this made him a very popular man in Thailand. TOO POPULAR.

And what happens to popular people who threaten "old money" is they get taken out, they get disgraced with fake charges, they have massive propaganda against them and get killed or exiled. Its happened in many countries all over the world throughout time.

If you had been in Thailand in the 1970's and 1980's you would know the real meaning of corruption on a massive scale.

....finally someone who does have a clue.

Haley, and most people in the North and North East are fully aware......... which is why their votes are not bought with money, its respect of Thaksin and what he has done for them that keeps people voting PTP today.

One of the standing jokes in Thailand in the 80's was if you want to measure corruption then look at the old (before extension) Don Muang airport expressway, measure how many kilometers its stopped short of the airport and that was the level of corruption at the time. Remember getting the expressway and having to go down on to the jams of Vibhavdi Rangsit road long before you reached the airport.

Thanks to Thaksins parties new expressways got built and finally the "corruption shortened" Don Muang tollway reached the airport, as it is today.

But I guess many people have not been in Thailand long enough to know the real corruption of the 1970's and 1980's before the whole country voted in TRT and Thaksin to stop the massive corruption, which it certainly did.

So getting back to red shirts, yes, they know full well all the story and they are prepared, it seems, this time to finally fight for it, if needed. It is that threat which is stopping a bunch of would be traitors from launching a coup against the Constitution of Thailand.

All in my opinion of course.

[icare999]

Corruption was at its very worst long before Thaksin. Massive massive corruption.

The reason the whole country in effect voted in TRT and Thaksin was to reduce corruption. They thought he was already massively rich and he would therefore distribute money to all the people, not just keep filling the pockets of the Bangkok elite.

He did that, people all over the country benefited. The health care scheme, money being spent on new roads and airports all over the country. Bangkok finally after about 40 years of corruption got its new airport built.

Corruption fell under TRT and things actually started to get done, Thailand boomed............

But this made him a very popular man in Thailand. TOO POPULAR.

And what happens to popular people who threaten "old money" is they get taken out, they get disgraced with fake charges, they have massive propaganda against them and get killed or exiled. Its happened in many countries all over the world throughout time.

If you had been in Thailand in the 1970's and 1980's you would know the real meaning of corruption on a massive scale.

....finally someone who does have a clue.

bs I've been here 30+ years and its never been as bad as under taksin regime

[potters]

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

Yes Taksin did some bad things, everybody knows all about them.

But he should have been voted out !!

Not thrown out through a coup and ignore the voice of the masses.

Three times already !

Everybody calls them dumb and ignorant but wonders why they are fed up with it.

Taksin plays a dirty game using these people, i fully agree, but the old elite plays a dumb game ignoring them.

And this is the result.

As said before, i feel very sorry for this beautiful country !!

Before I said it is a choice between bad (dems) and superbad (shinas). The shinas raised corruption to an exceptional level. Allowing them to go on would mean many more billions thrown away in the rice scam and the go ahead for the 2.2 TRILLION loan. That would mean an incredible national debt that would haunt the taxpayers for decades.

If chose the dems then they can be much easier replaced when something better comes into politics. And that for sure will happen. If chose the shinas, the cancer will spread more and more beyond cure. Corruption will spread deeper and deeper.

I share your regret for the country. But Thailand and Thai people remain beautiful and resourceful. They deserve better than now and in the past. And they will get it. The country will be back on top of the world as a rice selling country and in many other ways standards will go up too. But keeping the shinas would be disastrous. Trace where the taxpayer's money went and perhaps billions can be brought back.

I agree with you and im sure many do.

However no one seems to come up with alternatives.

What way is now the right way.

I for one believe that the Thai people are being led up the garden path yet again with the peoples council idea.

Why are they not asking the leaders to outline them first so they can see what they are fighting for.

Draw up a list of the proposed members of the Peoples Council

Complete transparency HIDE NOTHING (but secretly they believe you are all stupid as you wont question them).

Those are questions i would be asking before i followed them anywhere.

Plus if they dont give the people in the North and the N.East voices on the council as he has said.

Then the BS just carries on.

We all know the definition of Insanity

We can all have an opinion that does not make you Red or Yellow

At the end of the day im sure it is the country we live in and love that we care about.

Just wish they could all stop being so childish and sort it out.

[thaigold]

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

Berg ... You are not a Thai. Mind your own business.

[thaigold]

If those do come to Bangkok ... I'll recommend to the gf that there is an untapped market maybe selling ageless face-cream to our friends from the north ...

They just look old from working hard to keep the rich BKK elite in the lifestyle they demand.

Seems you have that completely ass backwards since the entire rice scheme was paid for by tax payers money and ipso facto the rich 'elite' you reds keep bleating on about( actually more likely the middle classes as the rich can manipulate their monies to avoid tax )....The 'elite's tax money has been keeping the reds in the lifestyle they are demanding for the last 2 years till the caretakers stopped paying 6 months ago.

Hey TingTong ... The United States spends billions of dollars every year on farm subsidies - it's called democracy and civilization. Back to school for you.

[The Deerhunter]

you mentioned abot getting rid of the Chinese Thai elite, good lets start with the rebel rouser first -the one that is still today causing thee problem--The big Chinese Thai himself Thaksin.

Thaksin in his Machiavellian style power play started for real the political awareness among poor northern Thais. He probably never intended it to become such a large political force, he just wanted the top spot in Thai government by using them.

Anyway, he and his sister will some day be voted out of power but the awareness and political influence by voting are here to stay. If the Bangkok yellow elite tries to deny the northerners from voting, it could turn very ugly.

I think if one was to give some credit to Thaksin it is that he did give Isaarn a voice that now cannot be ignored. That is good.

But the rest of him is pure garbage plus the notion that he is a businessman is also pure garbage.

The northerners will get their vote. It will be the vacuum in the aftermath and action from the courts over the next few months that will see Thaksin and his Pheau Thai band of lawless undemocratic thieves removed. The north should start learning that democracy also includes abiding by the law and the constitution.

God, but I only hope you are right. Almost every other poss8ible outcome is disaster in the making....

[SABloke]

If those do come to Bangkok ... I'll recommend to the gf that there is an untapped market maybe selling ageless face-cream to our friends from the north ...

They just look old from working hard to keep the rich BKK elite in the lifestyle they demand.

Seems you have that completely ass backwards since the entire rice scheme was paid for by tax payers money and ipso facto the rich 'elite' you reds keep bleating on about( actually more likely the middle classes as the rich can manipulate their monies to avoid tax )....The 'elite's tax money has been keeping the reds in the lifestyle they are demanding for the last 2 years till the caretakers stopped paying 6 months ago.

Hey TingTong ... The United States spends billions of dollars every year on farm subsidies - it's called democracy and civilization. Back to school for you.

Yes on SUBSIDIES. Dem scheme: Farmers sell their rice to buyers at market price - Governmetn then subsidises the farmers by paying them some money to increase their income. Buyers input = x, Government input = y, Total money received by farmers = z (x + y = z) Cost to taxpayer = z - x ie y.

Rice Scheme: Government buys the rice for market price + subsidy amount (x + y) Cost to taxpayer is (x + y) less revenue from sales. As we are currently sitting on a stockpile of 10 million tonnes of rice that can't be sold it means that the cost to taxpayer is still x + y: This is not how subsidies work!!!

Even Jonathan Head in the interview the other day (and I appluad him for "drilling" the Deputy minister) missed an oppourtunity when the Minister said "We're only spending 20% more than the Dems did" Bullsh*t!! Since they are the sole buyer, they're spending almost 80% more. I'm no gonna give you a "Back yo school for you" comment as I am not 4 years old. Just asking that you take in the whole picture.

[rixalex]

Have long have you been here ?

Corruption was at its very worst long before Thaksin. Massive massive corruption.

The reason the whole country in effect voted in TRT and Thaksin was to reduce corruption. They thought he was already massively rich and he would therefore distribute money to all the people, not just keep filling the pockets of the Bangkok elite.

He did that, people all over the country benefited. The health care scheme, money being spent on new roads and airports all over the country. Bangkok finally after about 40 years of corruption got its new airport built.

Corruption fell under TRT and things actually started to get done, Thailand boomed............

But this made him a very popular man in Thailand. TOO POPULAR.

And what happens to popular people who threaten "old money" is they get taken out, they get disgraced with fake charges, they have massive propaganda against them and get killed or exiled. Its happened in many countries all over the world throughout time.

If you had been in Thailand in the 1970's and 1980's you would know the real meaning of corruption on a massive scale.

All of course, in my opinion.

For the last ten years and more, Thaksin has, in one political party incarnation or another, been in power for the majority of it. The period which you and other Thaksin sympathizers always selectively drone on about, is the time of the TRT party, when the entire world was enjoying an economic boom, and when almost all of the South-East Asian nations were, just like Thailand, developing at an increased rate.

If Thaksin was the economic guru and great leader that you paint him as, Thailand wouldn't have just developed more rapidly during a world economic boom, it would have developed at all the other times he has been in power. It hasn't. Just take the last two years as one example. Where was the boom? Thaksin thinks, Puea Thai acts was the slogan when they got elected. So why hasn't he waved his magic wand and done all those impressive things that you allege he did during the TRT years? The answer is obvious. The boom that Thailand enjoyed in the early 2000s had very little to do with Thaksin or the government of the day, and almost everything to do with fortunate timing. That's it. Without that, without a world economic boom to help him, he's been no more effective or successful in terms of developing Thailand, than any other Thai leader of the last few decades.

[EricBerg]

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

Yes Taksin did some bad things, everybody knows all about them.

But he should have been voted out !!

Not thrown out through a coup and ignore the voice of the masses.

Three times already !

Everybody calls them dumb and ignorant but wonders why they are fed up with it.

Taksin plays a dirty game using these people, i fully agree, but the old elite plays a dumb game ignoring them.

And this is the result.

As said before, i feel very sorry for this beautiful country !!

Before I said it is a choice between bad (dems) and superbad (shinas). The shinas raised corruption to an exceptional level. Allowing them to go on would mean many more billions thrown away in the rice scam and the go ahead for the 2.2 TRILLION loan. That would mean an incredible national debt that would haunt the taxpayers for decades.

If chose the dems then they can be much easier replaced when something better comes into politics. And that for sure will happen. If chose the shinas, the cancer will spread more and more beyond cure. Corruption will spread deeper and deeper.

I share your regret for the country. But Thailand and Thai people remain beautiful and resourceful. They deserve better than now and in the past. And they will get it. The country will be back on top of the world as a rice selling country and in many other ways standards will go up too. But keeping the shinas would be disastrous. Trace where the taxpayer's money went and perhaps billions can be brought back.

I agree with you and im sure many do.

However no one seems to come up with alternatives.

What way is now the right way.

I for one believe that the Thai people are being led up the garden path yet again with the peoples council idea.

Why are they not asking the leaders to outline them first so they can see what they are fighting for.

Draw up a list of the proposed members of the Peoples Council

Complete transparency HIDE NOTHING (but secretly they believe you are all stupid as you wont question them).

Those are questions i would be asking before i followed them anywhere.

Plus if they dont give the people in the North and the N.East voices on the council as he has said.

Then the BS just carries on.

We all know the definition of Insanity

We can all have an opinion that does not make you Red or Yellow

At the end of the day im sure it is the country we live in and love that we care about.

Just wish they could all stop being so childish and sort it out.

The people up north can never be ignored anymore. Simply because they are the biggest group in the electorate. So any party that wants to win elections in a normal, democratic way must go there and convince them. Convince them why the rice scam is selfdestruct. And why Thailand is not number one riceseller anymore. If the dems want to be that party they have to work very hard for it. Their sheet is far from clean.

IMO the most important is to prevent financial/economic disaster by letting the shinaclan hang on to power.

That people's councel idea appeals to me in sofar that the crooks must be kicked out first and never return to politics. But before agreeing to it, it must be made clear who will be in it and what timepath will be followed.

Although I sympathise with the protesters I think Suthep must do as he promised: retire from politics when the present situation is over.

[tilac2]

Have long have you been here ?

Corruption was at its very worst long before Thaksin. Massive massive corruption.

The reason the whole country in effect voted in TRT and Thaksin was to reduce corruption. They thought he was already massively rich and he would therefore distribute money to all the people, not just keep filling the pockets of the Bangkok elite.

He did that, people all over the country benefited. The health care scheme, money being spent on new roads and airports all over the country. Bangkok finally after about 40 years of corruption got its new airport built.

Corruption fell under TRT and things actually started to get done, Thailand boomed............

But this made him a very popular man in Thailand. TOO POPULAR.

And what happens to popular people who threaten "old money" is they get taken out, they get disgraced with fake charges, they have massive propaganda against them and get killed or exiled. Its happened in many countries all over the world throughout time.

If you had been in Thailand in the 1970's and 1980's you would know the real meaning of corruption on a massive scale.

All of course, in my opinion.

For the last ten years and more, Thaksin has, in one political party incarnation or another, been in power for the majority of it. The period which you and other Thaksin sympathizers always selectively drone on about, is the time of the TRT party, when the entire world was enjoying an economic boom, and when almost all of the South-East Asian nations were, just like Thailand, developing at an increased rate.

If Thaksin was the economic guru and great leader that you paint him as, Thailand wouldn't have just developed more rapidly during a world economic boom, it would have developed at all the other times he has been in power. It hasn't. Just take the last two years as one example. Where was the boom? Thaksin thinks, Puea Thai acts was the slogan when they got elected. So why hasn't he waved his magic wand and done all those impressive things that you allege he did during the TRT years? The answer is obvious. The boom that Thailand enjoyed in the early 2000s had very little to do with Thaksin or the government of the day, and almost everything to do with fortunate timing. That's it. Without that, without a world economic boom to help him, he's been no more effective or successful in terms of developing Thailand, than any other Thai leader of the last few decades.

Actually Thailand did pretty well with economic growth in 2012, and even in 2013 it was around 4%. In 2011 the growth rate was low due to the floods. In 2001 to 2006 (Thaksin's period) the boom was as good as in comparable countries.

But I don't think people claim that Thaksin ahieved an economic miracle, I think they say he was competent economically. They would add, as LevelHead says, that one of his most impressive achievements was to benefit regional people; also decreasing inequality. I've seen no evidence to indicate that he was more corrupt than other PMs. He probably antagonised many people through his drive and singlemindedness, but he should have been allowed to complete his term and the electors should have been given the chance to vote his party out if they wanted. Instead, there was the coup and then as LevelHead says, the fake charges and propaganda.

Thaksin's removal has been followed by a continuing pattern of disputing election results and insulting rural voters, which is threatening to tear the country apart.

[Cricketnut]

I'm not sure that this is the point. They had been neglected for so long since 1932. Bangkokians have enjoyed far better services and living standards its not funny. I don't see this in red or yellow. We need to understand what only Thaksin did for the people of the north and northeast to realise this. 17 times the amount of government services in and around Bangkok compared to the North.. And now people trying to stop them and others from voting. This is not Democratic. I think we can lay the blame at successive governments who have spurned the people who are at fault. This is not so much about Thaksin but rather a semblance of democracy that I think the people desire. Not the elite of Bangkok infringing upon their rights. Be he good bad or ugly for all of Thaksins faults he did connect with the people. The Democrat's have not and cannot until they participate in the democratic process. In short Thailand needs to usher in a constitution that benefits all the people even the minority. Maybe they could take a leaf out of Australian or New Zealand democracy and copy this. But until both sides stop wanting power and money, it will be the people who revolt as we are seeing today and especially in the last 10 years. Marginalisation is Thailand's biggest problem as is the Ammarts, police, military and the judicial system. Their will be no real peace for any Thai until these items can be addressed. The revolution will continue until an equal balance of power and reform has been achieved. A rough road lies ahead.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

.an equal amount of money in each Shinawatra bank account?.......................

Did the coffee inspire such insight

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[LadPhrao123]

It seems that the army has somewhat been brought "under control" because the generals realize that a coup would not be accepted anymore.

Any coup from the army would lead to a general uprising in the populated north.

On the other side, the courts still can be seen by many as an "independent" body not scared to involve itself with the minority trying to gain power over the majority.

As long as the courts cannot be seen as impartial by the majority of people it's difficult to blame the reds when they want to fight to protect the people's basic rights.

Let's hope that there will be no need for the reds to go at war to defend democracy... and that all those trying to overthrow democracy by any means (criminal, coup, court rulings, ...) pay for their crimes.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I dont like what you say - but I think your right - this Government will be returned to carry on corruption and bring in another amnesty bill to bring "Captain corruption" back from Dubai!! His plan cannot continue until another event happens!! This is Thailands sad future - anything else will be met with an M79 and a red riot!! - We know this but I as a Thai am proud that Thai people stood up in the street and said - "this is not democracy!!". Also did you know Thaksins neice is married to Hun Sens son? and his other neice to Myanmars leaders family? Thaksins lust for power will spill out ofThailand next time - especially now he believes he is untouchable!!

Unfortunately your posts love1012, if you are Thai, are as empty of factual information as the know-nothing foreigners in these threads that love to write about the favorite whipping boy and how much they hate Thaksin Shinawatra and use all the catchy little phrases about dictator, dubai, corruption, stole money and how he's a convicted criminal and should never been let into the country again but never come up with the goods and make a compelling, informed case against Thaksin Shinawatra and his family. Just the same cut and paste opinions and tired rants. And apparently Thaksin so dominates Thailand that no one other person or party can lead the Thai people in another direction. Shocking that Thailand cannot come up with a smart, savvy, successful leader to outmatch Thaksin if that's what's really necessary. Otherwise let him come back to Thailand and lead. Looks like he knew how to deal with the powerful and how to motivate the masses and how to make money. From what I see everyone else is ready to let it be torn down, fighting amongst themselves and following a clown that can't think two steps past "I hate the Shinawatras".

[rixalex]

Actually Thailand did pretty well with economic growth in 2012, and even in 2013 it was around 4%. In 2011 the growth rate was low due to the floods. In 2001 to 2006 (Thaksin's period) the boom was as good as in comparable countries.

But I don't think people claim that Thaksin ahieved an economic miracle, I think they say he was competent economically.

Who is "they", because if it's the people i'm thinking of, the people i am always hearing, it's never spoken in those sorts of sobering tones. It's always spoken with much fanfare and never with any mention of the world boom that was going on, just all about the miracle that Thaksin achieved.

They would add, as LevelHead says, that one of his most impressive achievements was to benefit regional people; also decreasing inequality.

In general, the benefits he made to those regional people were short term and haven't really put much of a dent in the wealth divide.

I've seen no evidence to indicate that he was more corrupt than other PMs. He probably antagonised many people through his drive and singlemindedness, but he should have been allowed to complete his term and the electors should have been given the chance to vote his party out if they wanted.

No, what should have happened is that when he blatantly "hid" his assets in the names of random staff members of his, right at the beginning of his tenure, the judges should not have been pressured by his popularity into letting him off, and instead should have found him guilty as we all know he was. Then he would have been banned for five years, not that that would have been the end of his political career i'm sure, but he would have known that there were limits to what he could get away with, and he would have acted with more restraint when it came to his abuses. He wasn't and he didn't, and so what we ended up with, was the absurdity of him having certain laws conveniently changed days before the tax free selling of his business to foreigners. That was the one step to far that drove people to the streets, and ultimately brought about the coup.

Instead, there was the coup and then as LevelHead says, the fake charges and propaganda.

Fake charges?! Give me a break. He was convicted whilst his own party was in power, he has never actually denied anything for which he was convicted, let alone provide any evidence to show that, he merely bleats on about how unfair it was... not only for someone of his standing to have been convicted, but for someone to dare turn down a very generous lunch box shaped bribe he had offered. That act alone and in itself, especially with it being a former Prime Minister, would in any properly functioning and just justice system, lead to a long stretch behind bars... and furthermore, it wouldn't matter if every single citizen wanted to elect that person to lead the country, the constitution would prevent it because the criteria for what makes someone eligible and what makes someone ineligible, to stand for office, is not something that can simply be ignored if enough people like that person. Edited February 2, 2014 by rixalex

[krabimike]

I don't post to often on these forms. I am an American and I live in homes from Krabi to Surin to Condo in Bangkok. I am amazed at the heartlessness of some of the stupid snide remarks that are mad about Thailand's crawl to Democracy. Every person in this country deserves the right to have a vote! Anyone that tries or suggest that be taken away. abolishes any good that they say they seek to do.

Congratulations on your numerous homes. However not really sure of the relevance

of that information to the thread...... Do some research on Thaksin, and his famous

statement that "democracy is not his goal".. Democracy is a sham here designed

to soothe western investors and the foreign press. When Thaksin " led" Thailand, he would

wake up in the morning with some wild idea, and by the afternoon it would be

implemented. Does that sound like democracy to you ???/

The point is ,. That I live in the south, north and bkk year around I see and live with all three demographics. and because you have the ground to call thaskin bad as are most every rich politicians in the world you are an idiot to compromise someone else's right to cast there vote! just because you think that you are richer and smarter. surely it does not take to many brains to figure that out.

[LadPhrao123]

Who is "they", because if it's the people i'm thinking of, the people i am always hearing, it's never spoken in those sorts of sobering tones. It's always spoken with much fanfare and never with any mention of the world boom that was going on, just all about the miracle that Thaksin achieved.

In general, the benefits he made to those regional people were short term and haven't really put much of a dent in the wealth divide.

I've seen no evidence to indicate that he was more corrupt than other PMs. He probably antagonised many people through his drive and singlemindedness, but he should have been allowed to complete his term and the electors should have been given the chance to vote his party out if they wanted.

No, what should have happened is that when he blatantly "hid" his assets in the names of random staff members of his, right at the beginning of his tenure, the judges should not have been pressured by his popularity into letting him off, and instead should have found him guilty as we all know he was. Then he would have been banned for five years, not that that would have been the end of his political career i'm sure, but he would have known that there were limits to what he could get away with, and he would have acted with more restraint when it came to his abuses. He wasn't and he didn't, and so what we ended up with, was the absurdity of him having certain laws conveniently changed days before the tax free selling of his business to foreigners. That was the one step to far that drove people to the streets, and ultimately brought about the coup.

Instead, there was the coup and then as LevelHead says, the fake charges and propaganda.

Fake charges?! Give me a break. He was convicted whilst his own party was in power, he has never actually denied anything for which he was convicted, let alone provide any evidence to show that, he merely bleats on about how unfair it was... not only for someone of his standing to have been convicted, but for someone to dare turn down a very generous lunch box shaped bribe he had offered. That act alone and in itself, especially with it being a former Prime Minister, would in any properly functioning and just justice system, lead to a long stretch behind bars.

More facts, less opinion. Interesting to read someone who has some knowledge of history, references to unbiased writings would be welcome, but sorry to say this all reads like selective "facts" and opinions to prop up a personal conclusion and opinion.

[Equalizer]

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

I thought you was talking about Suthep and his 8 billion Baht Pine oil scam for a min, until i read the return to Thailand bit.

[robblok]

It seems that the army has somewhat been brought "under control" because the generals realize that a coup would not be accepted anymore.

Any coup from the army would lead to a general uprising in the populated north.

On the other side, the courts still can be seen by many as an "independent" body not scared to involve itself with the minority trying to gain power over the majority.

As long as the courts cannot be seen as impartial by the majority of people it's difficult to blame the reds when they want to fight to protect the people's basic rights.

Let's hope that there will be no need for the reds to go at war to defend democracy... and that all those trying to overthrow democracy by any means (criminal, coup, court rulings, ...) pay for their crimes.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I dont like what you say - but I think your right - this Government will be returned to carry on corruption and bring in another amnesty bill to bring "Captain corruption" back from Dubai!! His plan cannot continue until another event happens!! This is Thailands sad future - anything else will be met with an M79 and a red riot!! - We know this but I as a Thai am proud that Thai people stood up in the street and said - "this is not democracy!!". Also did you know Thaksins neice is married to Hun Sens son? and his other neice to Myanmars leaders family? Thaksins lust for power will spill out ofThailand next time - especially now he believes he is untouchable!!

Unfortunately your posts love1012, if you are Thai, are as empty of factual information as the know-nothing foreigners in these threads that love to write about the favorite whipping boy and how much they hate Thaksin Shinawatra and use all the catchy little phrases about dictator, dubai, corruption, stole money and how he's a convicted criminal and should never been let into the country again but never come up with the goods and make a compelling, informed case against Thaksin Shinawatra and his family. Just the same cut and paste opinions and tired rants. And apparently Thaksin so dominates Thailand that no one other person or party can lead the Thai people in another direction. Shocking that Thailand cannot come up with a smart, savvy, successful leader to outmatch Thaksin if that's what's really necessary. Otherwise let him come back to Thailand and lead. Looks like he knew how to deal with the powerful and how to motivate the masses and how to make money. From what I see everyone else is ready to let it be torn down, fighting amongst themselves and following a clown that can't think two steps past "I hate the Shinawatras".

Fact,

He is a convicted criminal. Fact he is corrupt probably more as others. All corruption should be stopped and corrupt officials should be punished. Why would you allow corruption and not be for ellimination of corruption. It seems most reds know how corrupt he was but want to forgive it because he did some good things. That is like saying a rapist can go because he saved someones live. It makes no sense.

So all you can come up with others are corrupt too.. boo hooo.

I say get all the corrupt officials and punish them seems a far better way to do things then to allow. But then again I do feel I am superior to the average red shirt. Especially if i see a thought process like that.

[glenmohr]

It is well known that the Thais invented corruption.

It is the duty of every Thai leader to feed as much of the ill gotten gains to his family and followers as he/she has the chance to do..

To think that corruption can be reduced here ( or punished) is pissing into the wind, hope you have your mouth closed.

I hate it , but local rules are local rules anywhere we choose to go..

Edited February 3, 2014 by metisdead
Font

[tingtongteesood]

If those do come to Bangkok ... I'll recommend to the gf that there is an untapped market maybe selling ageless face-cream to our friends from the north ...

They just look old from working hard to keep the rich BKK elite in the lifestyle they demand.

Seems you have that completely ass backwards since the entire rice scheme was paid for by tax payers money and ipso facto the rich 'elite' you reds keep bleating on about( actually more likely the middle classes as the rich can manipulate their monies to avoid tax )....The 'elite's tax money has been keeping the reds in the lifestyle they are demanding for the last 2 years till the caretakers stopped paying 6 months ago.

Hey TingTong ... The United States spends billions of dollars every year on farm subsidies - it's called democracy and civilization. Back to school for you.

Uh yeah, I know that and it has absolutely nothing to do with my comment or the comment I was replying to, but thanks for your pointless drivel anyway. Back to school for you me thinks and learn to read the quote as well as the reply...

[max72]

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

One really has to be a blind fool to write such rubbish. So you are against democracy?! Go back to your home country, Thailand does not need your kinds of expats!

You know the great majority of expats here are almost as racists as the Bangkok elite.

They think the dozens of millions of northern Thais WHO FEED ALL THAIS AND FARANGS here , are worse than animals, they think they should work day and night to produce all food for the whole country and half of the world (Thailand is N.1 exporter of rice, the staple of the half of the world population) and shut up, without any right to say anything.

This is the real disgrace, the Bangkok elite has built an apartheid country ,keeping millions in a quasi-slavery and building a kind of amusing park in Bangkok for the rich farangs, asians and arabs.

The northern Thais should just work and/or sell their bodies and that;s it.

This can't last forever. Thaksin is probably a son of a b..., but he has just exploited this situation, a very unfair situation which has been going on for generations.

Just look at the people who really work hard even in Bangkok or in the South: most of them are from the North.

Without them, Bangkokians and Southeners would starve to death. It's time to give the respect they deserve to these people.

The real uneducated, materialist, lazy and heartless people are those of the capital, not from the North.

Every time we eat we should say thanks to Essan and Northern Thais for the food they bring us. This is the truth. I don't really care about Thaksin. I just want a fair Thailand . At the moment, he had been the "least worse" amogst the bads.