Thai govt told to urgently sell stockpiled rice

[Why ask]

But the big boss said we will set the market price. What went wrong???

If Thai farmers are only 45% efficient as there Vietnamese opposition in the rice trade, then A Government neefs to look at that problem.

Maybe adopting farlang farming methods may help!!!!

5555555 but we know that will happen !!!!! Soon !!!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Fariang farming methods can only be used on large corporate farms. Planting rice with a machine would put the average rice farmer into a cost they can not afford. The ROI would not justify the expense. Spreading fertilizer pesticides and herbicides with an air plane, how much does that cost.

The present rice pledging could cause the average farmer to lose his land because of non performing loans. There by corrupt politicians could take the land and set up large corporate farms. They would need some help from their friends in the UAE.

Planting rice with a machine would put the average rice farmer into a cost they can not afford. ????

Do you not think they hire harvesters, as a community, and it's all done with scythes still? I know for a fact my elder family communally hire harvesters, or even individually!

They don't know what ASEAN is, so I'm sure they don't know what a mechanical rice planter is.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Mangalore/mechanised-transplantation-of-paddy-improves-productivity/article4353123.ece

The above article is a small indication of how even poorer farmers of India are reaping benefits.

Who talked about airplanes? Now that's really extreme, in contrast to not permitting or suggesting mechanised planting.

[mightyatom]

Govt told to urgently sell stockpiled rice

That's the way.

Just totally wreck the next 10 years of the industry to the point the paddy will be worth less than what it costs to grow.

Great ideas coming from so called clever people.

They release all 18 million tonnes at once and they may as well just shoot every rice family in Thailand.

[scorecard]

And the government sells the stockpiled rice at a price undercutting the international rice prices, and 10 - 1 on, the dems would complain and file a court case for malfeasance or similar............

Ahh, your daily joke, but not very funny.

[edwinchester]

But the big boss said we will set the market price. What went wrong???

If Thai farmers are only 45% efficient as there Vietnamese opposition in the rice trade, then A Government neefs to look at that problem.

Maybe adopting farlang farming methods may help!!!!

5555555 but we know that will happen !!!!! Soon !!!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Fariang farming methods can only be used on large corporate farms. Planting rice with a machine would put the average rice farmer into a cost they can not afford. The ROI would not justify the expense. Spreading fertilizer pesticides and herbicides with an air plane, how much does that cost.

The present rice pledging could cause the average farmer to lose his land because of non performing loans. There by corrupt politicians could take the land and set up large corporate farms. They would need some help from their friends in the UAE.

Some farmers where I live have recently started using rice planting machines on just a few rai of paddy. If it weren't profitable they wouldn't be doing it.

[HannahD]

How about a value added project? Convert the rice to beer and sell the beer. The best beers are usually made with rice. Or convert the rice to pork or chicken which can be frozen and released to market gradually. Something has to be done and fairly soon. Edible rice has a limited silo life.

Edited February 8, 2014 by HannahD

[speedtripler]

someone didnt study much mathmathics before writing this crap ,since when was 450kg / from 1000kg a third ?

Ekscuu me. Thai math not same farang math

No that´s actually correct math for the rice scam,

a third from 1000 is 333. The writer only added the standard corruption factor of about 40% for the middle men.

you must have studied maths in thailand too

i get 29.5%?

[loong]

Throughout this fiasco it has been maintained that Thai rice, being of higher quality will attract buyers at a higher price than other countries' rice.

This didn't happen.

If Thai rice is such high quality, why not sell some of it on the domestic market.

Despite rice being double the price that it was 5 or 6 years ago, the rice that i buy is getting lower and lower, quality wise.

This is a great idea for the government. They will be able to claim that selling the stockpile at lower than market price is the only option left to them as all other avenues to raise the money to pay the farmers have been blocked. Ie We were forced to sell at a loss because it was the only way to raise the money and it was important that we pay the farmers what they were owed.

They will conveniently overlook the fact that they should have had the funding in place before paying the farmers became a problem!

[Gil]

Urgently sell stock piled lice...duh

Yes ulgenly

[Robby nz]

Throughout this fiasco it has been maintained that Thai rice, being of higher quality will attract buyers at a higher price than other countries' rice.

This didn't happen.

If Thai rice is such high quality, why not sell some of it on the domestic market.

Despite rice being double the price that it was 5 or 6 years ago, the rice that i buy is getting lower and lower, quality wise.

This is a great idea for the government. They will be able to claim that selling the stockpile at lower than market price is the only option left to them as all other avenues to raise the money to pay the farmers have been blocked. Ie We were forced to sell at a loss because it was the only way to raise the money and it was important that we pay the farmers what they were owed.

They will conveniently overlook the fact that they should have had the funding in place before paying the farmers became a problem!

As far as quality goes Cambodia has recently won the contest for the best rice in the world for the second year running.

[northernjohn]

Wow, someone came up with an idea....

Do you think Chalerm

[klauskunkel]

Chalerm: "Don't sell the rice! Give me 7 days and I will turn it into sake! (Then I can go swim in a sake-lake every day, oh happiness!)"

[northernjohn]

Even if this can be done, how would such a policy be viewed by the World Trade Organization (never mind Vietnam and India)? Wouldn't it be classified as "dumping"? And if it was dumping, how would this affect the Thai government under international law?

Good question.

Also would Thailand care?

They told the international court on the Cambodian issuwe they didn't care they were going to do their own thing no matter what it said. They told their own constitutional court they would not ciomply with their ruling.

What do they care about any thing that is not Thaksin approved.

On another note could they not sell it as fodder for animal's?

[northernjohn]

And the government sells the stockpiled rice at a price undercutting the international rice prices, and 10 - 1 on, the dems would complain and file a court case for malfeasance or similar............

simple question

Would they be right or wrong.

Yes or No.

[northernjohn]

Govt told to urgently sell stockpiled rice

That's the way.

Just totally wreck the next 10 years of the industry to the point the paddy will be worth less than what it costs to grow.

Great ideas coming from so called clever people.

They release all 18 million tonnes at once and they may as well just shoot every rice family in Thailand.

Well that is one way.

Or they can continue to fool people while the rice farmers starve to death and commit suicide. How ever the fools are becoming a dying breed.

[GAZZPA]

Even if this can be done, how would such a policy be viewed by the World Trade Organization (never mind Vietnam and India)? Wouldn't it be classified as "dumping"? And if it was dumping, how would this affect the Thai government under international law?

I think you are right. As the rice would be sold at a loss and lower then the market rate I am sure that would be considered dumping (sounds like the very definition of dumping to me) This would effect global rice prices and cause a big problem for Vietnam. Don't see how this would be fair to them and I can imagine this would be a big problem for the International community and International trade law.

But I also have to say what else can they do? They cannot sell it at the price they bought it no matter what they do. No one is going to suddenly buy a load of Thai rice at market prices because everyone will be suspicious of the state and quality after a lengthy storage period.

Also, as the sock pile is estimated to a years worth of demand so what happens to the farmers in Thailand and the next crop whilst they sell it?

I think they need to do anything and everything to solve this,, sell it, use it for any manner of things but whatever they decide to do they need to start now.

[hawker9000]

Aren't they starving in Africa. Sell it to the UN (at a loss, whatever) for their food programs. Oh, wait a minute, I think the UN only accepts $$$ donations -- can't buy off VIPs, ministers, etc., etc., etc., with rice, now can you?

[northernjohn]

Throughout this fiasco it has been maintained that Thai rice, being of higher quality will attract buyers at a higher price than other countries' rice.

This didn't happen.

If Thai rice is such high quality, why not sell some of it on the domestic market.

Despite rice being double the price that it was 5 or 6 years ago, the rice that i buy is getting lower and lower, quality wise.

This is a great idea for the government. They will be able to claim that selling the stockpile at lower than market price is the only option left to them as all other avenues to raise the money to pay the farmers have been blocked. Ie We were forced to sell at a loss because it was the only way to raise the money and it was important that we pay the farmers what they were owed.

They will conveniently overlook the fact that they should have had the funding in place before paying the farmers became a problem!

As I see it the ones who do want to pay it only want to pay it to get the farmers of their back.

The government should be looking for ways to pay the rice farmers off. Not for ways for the tax payers to be paying the bills.

I am not clear on what the law says but if the democrats did not vote is that not just cutting off any possibility for them to run in the next election. Of course they could serve in other positions. At least that is my understanding of the present law.

[blokker]

Thailand Elite Rice Card: All you can eat rice. Lifetime membership.

That should get the stockpiles down quickly.

Ps: perhaps throw in a free lifetime fitness club membership as well, for those who over-eat

Edited February 8, 2014 by blokker

[mogo51]

Of course this is the sensible decision, but we are talking 'sense' not 'cents'. When they are in the state that they are in financially, who cares what the rest of the world thinks. The poor farmers need money to survive, game over!!

[SamMunich]

Selling rice at a lower price assumes, that anybody would be interesting in that old, second class rice. And dumping it on the world market can have grave consequences. What would India or Vietnam do, if Thailand sells several million tons of rice below market price? They might counter with trade restrictions in other areas, e.g. penalty tariffs and then in no time you have a trade war. Might help some farmers in the short run, but hurt many more people in the longer run.

The first thing I would do is have the courts lock down the bank accounts of all the top level persons involved in that scheme, including their families accounts'. Let them have 500 Baht a day to buy food and gasoline, but that's it. Then urgently proceed with the court cases and if found guilty, take the money to distribute among the farmers... What will Nuttawut S. think about loosing his new fortunes?

In the end, they have to get rid of the rice in some way, but there is no way to expect to sell it fast to disemburse farmers...

[shrimpythailand]

When over half a budget is spent on a programme that has no solvency built in and guarantees an escalating debt, that delegates graft through the administering of it, that is masked in subterfuge, that has no public transparency, that is full of backroom deals, and on top of that, only administers 18 % to the poorest farmers - it is time to stop it, sell the rice at a loss, pay the farmers, and resign.

Scamper as usual - hit the nail right on the head... this is about the only way out - unless some UN body calls it dumping for some reason...this has the potential to either kill thailand on money or maybe get out of the scam and heaven forbid "loose face" but now no face left to loose at half the thailand budget money going to the "scheme/scam" and now it is WAY out of the closet 5 5 5 but yes try to sell it off cheap... maybe even donate a few hundred tons as "humanitarian" along with a big order.... or even give some away free to Africa... that will be the day right? I think normal years were 10 million tons exported.. now try to dump 18+Million tons on the global market for one big payday to pay the farmers off in how long? I think lots of countries have already spent their money buying rice for the next months but who knows...we are talking dumping 6-7 Billion $ of rice to get money back in a month or 3.... we will see... or keep sitting on 20-35 million tons and see how long it can take for it to go bad...5 year life and 10% gone a year and it's already been sitting for 1-2 years... somebody better come up with a plan - seems this guy is about right but does anyone in the actual PTB here have the gumption to really do it?

[Mudcrab]

Besides the idea to sell the rice before it rots, it would be a good idea to try to get back the money (or parts thereof),

which are lost only by corruption and nepotism.

In addition I guess between 200 - 300 Billion Baht corruption has cost.

I'm sure if they would trace the flow of money they could win more than 130 Billion Baht back,

but this government does not disclose the facts, the figures and the receivers.

Why?

I know many know the answer.

The money is there to pay the farmers, but it is now in dubious pockets!

Furthermore, why are the production costs increased so dramatically?

Simple,

many farmers have to rent their farmland.

The large land owners (they are elite too) have until now, every year increased the land rents, always to the threshold of pain.

Many many farmers sitting now in the debt trap.

The damage from this senseless scheme is so gigantic that Thailand has lost its competitiveness for years to come.

If all these landless farmers come with their pitchforks to Bangkok, then good night Thailand.

Any links to the large landowners, elite? Around these parts it's family farms. Where are the large land owners operating?

[Mudcrab]

All that is assuming;

A, that there is 18 million tons there.

B that it all in saleable condition

C, that someone would be willing to buy it.

The dumping question aside, there is at present a global glut with new exporters like Brazil and Argentina coming into the market.

The quality would certainly be in question as Ivory Coast and Iran will no longer buy Thai rice and the US returned a shipment, then there is the supposed deal with China that would raise other questions with prospective buyers.

They haven't had much joy with selling by the last auctions with less than half being sold.

Add to that the new seasons crop which is coming on (some being harvested now) would be in direct competition and would be much more desirable than stored crop.

The traders will now have the opportunity to buy the new crop directly from the farmers as they wont trust the Govt anymore, this means the traders can get the rice even cheaper than that from the Govt as the farmers have been forced into a debt situation by non payment and will be desperate for money.

The farmers will still have the interest on the loans they have been forced to take out to pay off and with being forced to accept low prices will be screwed from all directions.

Go Yingluck champion of the poor farmers.

Add to that the new seasons crop which is coming on (some being harvested now) would be in direct competition and would be much more desirable than stored crop.

It's all ok. They can mix it. Nobody will ever know.

All the rice was harvested around here in November/December? Where do you live?

[Mudcrab]

But the big boss said we will set the market price. What went wrong???

If Thai farmers are only 45% efficient as there Vietnamese opposition in the rice trade, then A Government neefs to look at that problem.

Maybe adopting farlang farming methods may help!!!!

5555555 but we know that will happen !!!!! Soon !!!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Fariang farming methods can only be used on large corporate farms. Planting rice with a machine would put the average rice farmer into a cost they can not afford. The ROI would not justify the expense. Spreading fertilizer pesticides and herbicides with an air plane, how much does that cost.

The present rice pledging could cause the average farmer to lose his land because of non performing loans. There by corrupt politicians could take the land and set up large corporate farms. They would need some help from their friends in the UAE.

Plenty of mechanical rice planters and harvesters here in deepest darkest Isaan. Farmers aren't idiots regardless of what the expat barstool brigade like to think. They know efficiencies more than most. Some have the money to advance, some don't.

And a lot of money is being owed by the farmers who can't pay the harvester because they aren't being paid by the Government. Everyone has notes stating the value of them. They take them to the bank and, guess what, no money forthcoming.

Read a sad story about a farmer who took his own life.

His wife borrowed money for his funeral but couldn't pay it back. She also committed suicide. The daughter has her motorbike for sale to pay for Mum's funeral. And still no money coming in.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Mudcrab

[Mudcrab]

How about a value added project? Convert the rice to beer and sell the beer. The best beers are usually made with rice. Or convert the rice to pork or chicken which can be frozen and released to market gradually. Something has to be done and fairly soon. Edible rice has a limited silo life.

Why not convert the rice to gold. Everyone will be rich. Thaksins promises come to fruition. Win-win situation.

[Showbags]

All that is assuming;

A, that there is 18 million tons there.

B that it all in saleable condition

C, that someone would be willing to buy it.

The dumping question aside, there is at present a global glut with new exporters like Brazil and Argentina coming into the market.

The quality would certainly be in question as Ivory Coast and Iran will no longer buy Thai rice and the US returned a shipment, then there is the supposed deal with China that would raise other questions with prospective buyers.

They haven't had much joy with selling by the last auctions with less than half being sold.

Add to that the new seasons crop which is coming on (some being harvested now) would be in direct competition and would be much more desirable than stored crop.

The traders will now have the opportunity to buy the new crop directly from the farmers as they wont trust the Govt anymore, this means the traders can get the rice even cheaper than that from the Govt as the farmers have been forced into a debt situation by non payment and will be desperate for money.

The farmers will still have the interest on the loans they have been forced to take out to pay off and with being forced to accept low prices will be screwed from all directions.

Go Yingluck champion of the poor farmers.

Add to that the new seasons crop which is coming on (some being harvested now) would be in direct competition and would be much more desirable than stored crop.

It's all ok. They can mix it. Nobody will ever know.

If the farmers sell this new crop to the same people...well, god help them....the farmers, not the buyers.

[allan michaud]

OK, but who is going to buy it when so many customers have gone elsewhere? Everyone knows Thailand has too much rice and is desperate to sell, all very predictable. And with so much bad press over dodgy deals, rotten rice being delivered to at least 2 nations, it's hard to see a rush to buy Thailand's rotting stockpile. Also, what happens if Thailand decides to dramatically under price their rice, surely the other rice producing nations will complain to the WTO?

Thaksin has screwed every part of the rice industry in Thailand for years to come. One of the main reasons the global price of rice is so low is that there is so much stockpiled... with Thailand leading the way. The genius Thaksin's plans to control supply and demand have completely and very predictably, backfired.

[mikemac]

Throughout this fiasco it has been maintained that Thai rice, being of higher quality will attract buyers at a higher price than other countries' rice.

This didn't happen.

If Thai rice is such high quality, why not sell some of it on the domestic market.

Despite rice being double the price that it was 5 or 6 years ago, the rice that i buy is getting lower and lower, quality wise.

This is a great idea for the government. They will be able to claim that selling the stockpile at lower than market price is the only option left to them as all other avenues to raise the money to pay the farmers have been blocked. Ie We were forced to sell at a loss because it was the only way to raise the money and it was important that we pay the farmers what they were owed.

They will conveniently overlook the fact that they should have had the funding in place before paying the farmers became a problem!

As far as quality goes Cambodia has recently won the contest for the best rice in the world for the second year running.

Call me biased, but the rice my wife's family grows in Surin is the best I have ever tasted. Tried some fresh rice when they harvested last year, could not believe the flavor.

[tomacht8]

Besides the idea to sell the rice before it rots, it would be a good idea to try to get back the money (or parts thereof),

which are lost only by corruption and nepotism.

In addition I guess between 200 - 300 Billion Baht corruption has cost.

I'm sure if they would trace the flow of money they could win more than 130 Billion Baht back,

but this government does not disclose the facts, the figures and the receivers.

Why?

I know many know the answer.

The money is there to pay the farmers, but it is now in dubious pockets!

Furthermore, why are the production costs increased so dramatically?

Simple,

many farmers have to rent their farmland.

The large land owners (they are elite too) have until now, every year increased the land rents, always to the threshold of pain.

Many many farmers sitting now in the debt trap.

The damage from this senseless scheme is so gigantic that Thailand has lost its competitiveness for years to come.

If all these landless farmers come with their pitchforks to Bangkok, then good night Thailand.

Any links to the large landowners, elite? Around these parts it's family farms. Where are the large land owners operating?

http://farmlandgrab.org/post/view/20882

A survey conducted in the Central region by The Nation showed that most of the farmland was owned by Thai landlords who leased plots of up to 10 rai (1.6 hectares) to small-scale farmers. Yet over the past few years, those in the rice business have been claiming that foreigners, particularly investors from the Middle East, have been buying up farmland via nominees.

As per The Nation survey, Thailand has 60 million rai devoted to rice farming and 60 per cent of this is owned by farmers, while the rest is handled by landlords and businesspeople, and some foreigners.

- See more at: http://farmlandgrab.org/post/view/20882#sthash.28cNX7iV.dpuf

And many small-scale farmers are now in debt up to there ears.

Edited February 8, 2014 by tomacht8

[Mudcrab]

Selling rice at a lower price assumes, that anybody would be interesting in that old, second class rice. And dumping it on the world market can have grave consequences. What would India or Vietnam do, if Thailand sells several million tons of rice below market price? They might counter with trade restrictions in other areas, e.g. penalty tariffs and then in no time you have a trade war. Might help some farmers in the short run, but hurt many more people in the longer run.

The first thing I would do is have the courts lock down the bank accounts of all the top level persons involved in that scheme, including their families accounts'. Let them have 500 Baht a day to buy food and gasoline, but that's it. Then urgently proceed with the court cases and if found guilty, take the money to distribute among the farmers... What will Nuttawut S. think about loosing his new fortunes?

In the end, they have to get rid of the rice in some way, but there is no way to expect to sell it fast to disemburse farmers...

The market would determine the price for the rice. There would be no dumping as such. It would certainly be sold at a lesser cost than the Government paid for it, but not lower than the cost of production which I understand defines "dumping". I doubt that the price for top quality rice rice would be affected at all. This assumes that it can even be sold at all.