Aeon Bank now charge 150 B ATM fee

[SurfRider]

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A few months ago, I traveled a fair distance to pull some cash from one of only two AEON ATMs in Pattaya. The ATM was out of service, so I went to the SCB branch nearby. I had my SCB bank book and and passport and told the teller that I needed to deposit funds, but the AEON ATM was broken, so I wanted to do a counter withdrawal. She said that they couldn't do it and asked me to use their ATM. I told her that I needed 30,000 and the ATM only allowed 20,000. She got her supervisor who told me to do two ATM transactions. I told her that was unacceptable because of their 150 Baht fee and I certainly didn't want to pay it twice.

She took my bank book and Visa Debit Card and disappeared. When she came back, she again asked if I would use the ATM. I refused and asked why she would not do a counter transaction. She finally agreed. I had to sign a form and a copy of my passport. They made a phone call to authorize the transaction. I finally got the cash, which was deposited immediately into my SCB account, but the ordeal took 45 minutes.

A month later, the same scenario - AEON ATM out of service. I went to SCB and they again told me that they could not do a counter withdrawal. I asked why and she said the SCB office in Bangkok that they have to call for authorization closes at 5pm and it was 6pm at that time. So, anyone wanting venture into the SCB counter transaction jungle might be well advised to do it well before 5pm and only on a weekday.
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[joealx]

Yes it's a debit card

[Pib]

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A few months ago, I traveled a fair distance to pull some cash from one of only two AEON ATMs in Pattaya. The ATM was out of service, so I went to the SCB branch nearby. I had my SCB bank book and and passport and told the teller that I needed to deposit funds, but the AEON ATM was broken, so I wanted to do a counter withdrawal. She said that they couldn't do it and asked me to use their ATM. I told her that I needed 30,000 and the ATM only allowed 20,000. She got her supervisor who told me to do two ATM transactions. I told her that was unacceptable because of their 150 Baht fee and I certainly didn't want to pay it twice.

She took my bank book and Visa Debit Card and disappeared. When she came back, she again asked if I would use the ATM. I refused and asked why she would not do a counter transaction. She finally agreed. I had to sign a form and a copy of my passport. They made a phone call to authorize the transaction. I finally got the cash, which was deposited immediately into my SCB account, but the ordeal took 45 minutes.

A month later, the same scenario - AEON ATM out of service. I went to SCB and they again told me that they could not do a counter withdrawal. I asked why and she said the SCB office in Bangkok that they have to call for authorization closes at 5pm and it was 6pm at that time. So, anyone wanting venture into the SCB counter transaction jungle might be well advised to do it well before 5pm and only on a weekday.

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Based on your experience at the SCB branch and my experience at the Bangkok Bank branch today I think it just a bank corporate/headquarters policy and how tough or relaxed in enforcing the policy depends on the details of the policy (whatever it may be) with discretion left up to each branch on how to handle such transactions. My gut is telling me today from my experience the Bangkok Bank branch and other posts I've seen they could have indeed processed an over the counter withdrawal but to do so would have resulted in no fee for them.

So, they just point a person to their ATM where the fee will be applied and you can still get your money...the bank is happy they collected a fee and although you got your money from the ATM your joy is greatly reduced due to the Bt150/Bt180 foreign card fee charged by Thai banks and now AEON.

[granuaile]

that is bad news. Now AEON can watch a significant drop in ATM usage from farang's taking money out as there is no incentive anymore

Yes, I found this out yesterday.... At the end of last month there was no charge but my last visit there was... Without it I really have no incentive to use them, I can use the ATM in my apartment building and not be restricted to 1000 baht increments. Think it's time to just set up a Bangkok Bank account... I used Aeon's ATMs on principle, because I just resented the fee charged by other banks here. A friend did tell me UoB does not charge but I have never tried it...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I could have flipped out one my credit cards and continued with the withdrawal but I would have had to be in serious need of money or didn't care about credit card cash advance fees that usually run around 3%....or I had a credit card that didn't apply a cash advance fee (they are out there...I know of one I could get).

Pib, sorry you didn't get your satisfaction today... But as member reports here over time have indicated, the willingless of Thai banks to do counter withdrawals seems to be a hit and miss affairs -- not all that different from their ragtag rules/policies for new account openings.

But, re your notion of a U.S. credit card that doesn't have any cash advance fees (and certainly no foreign currency fees as well), I certainly know of one at least, and there probably are others.

Penfed's Promise VISA credit card:

https://www.penfed.org/Penfed-Promise/?WT.ac=1246

• No annual fee
• No foreign transaction fee
• No balance transfer fee
• No cash advance fee
• No late fee
• No over credit limit fee
• No penalty APR

The Promise VISA does have a 9.99% APR rate on cash advances. But with Penfed's online banking, once you'd done the cash advance, I'm assuming you could pay down the balance to zero in the same day or next. I'm assuming that, I should stress, because I've never tried that approach to know for sure.

Just an example though, if you were to cash advance $1,000 U.S. using the Penfed Promise credit card, and ended up having interest assessed for a month, at that rate it would run $8.32.

That said, I do have the sense from reading the various member reports here over time that various folks have in fact posted about doing counter withdrawals with DEBIT cards as opposed to credit cards. So, in your case and in general, I think it's more just a matter of finding an accommodating branch.

[Pib]

Yeap, that is the one I was beating around the bush about. And I could have switched to that card back in Sep 13 when I was having an issue with my PenFed Cash Reward credit card which pays 5% (five) cash-back for gas purchases at-the-pump. That is, where you can slide your card into the gas pump to make payment at self serve stations...but in Thailand they don't have such a thing as they fill your vehicle and process your credit card using the standard POS transaction machine just like in stores...maybe in the future Thailand will start using pay-at-pump machines and I can then earn 5% cash back....but knowing its Thailand they'll probably set the pump machines up to charge a Bt150 foreign card fee.

The problem in finding an accommodating bank/branch is indeed true...I fully expect such branches will be the exception versus the norm. I miss Lady AEON ATM.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A friend did tell me UoB does not charge but I have never tried it...

UOB may not charge a fee for some cards issued in other/Asian countries. But they certainly do charge for U.S.-based cards.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The problem in finding an accommodating bank/branch is indeed true...I fully expect such branches will be the exception versus the norm. I miss Lady AEON ATM.

Well, I'm certainly interested in and would like to find other options -- now that AEON has died in a manner of speaking.

The cash advance approach with a card like the Penfed Promise one is interesting... maybe someone can give a try at that and report.

For others, I suspect it's just a matter of taking the time and trouble to find an accommodating branch for debit card counter withdrawals. Before, that was more of a niche business. Now, I suspect we'll start getting more member reports here of just how much it's possible or not.

For me, I've always tried to handle most of my routine expenses via my U.S. no-fee debit cards and avoid needing to pull a lot of Thai cash. But like you, I also have several debit cards that are both no-fee combined with the feature of reimbursing other banks' ATM fees, including those outside the U.S.

So, my plan for the moment -- while I watch and see how things evolve -- is to do one pull at the beginning of the month with one of my ATM-fee reimbursing accounts -- enough to cover my rent and expected cash needs for the month. And then simply have one ATM fee reimbursement credited to that account per month.

Before, I would have just taken out the rent money, and left the other cash in my account, only withdrawing a bit here and there as needed in multiple pulls (since they were all no-fee anyway with AEON). Now, I'll make the point of taking out the extra cash at the beginning of the money along with my rent and just keeping it at home to use as needed. And if not used, put toward next month's rent.

I may even alternate between a couple different of my ATM fee reimbursing accounts, so I'll end up having only one ATM fee reimbursement for each every other month.

I'm a perfectly sociable soul, but I really hate having to go hat in hand and hassle with dim-witted bank tellers who don't even know their own policies and have to go check with a supervisor anytime anyone wants to do anything slightly out of the ordinary such as a debit card counter withdrawal.

I hope others here will post and report on their successes and failures, so we can begin to get a better sense of how to operate in this new NO-AEON world.

[SurfRider]

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TallGuy,

Back in the days before Debit Cards, when I was going to be away on a trip and miss making the monthly Credit Card payment- I would overpay the previous payment by a sum that would cover the future payment that I was going to miss, thus avoiding the charges for not paying as agreed. I wonder if something like that could be done with the Penfield card? - essentially turning it from a Credit Card into a Debit Card. Coupled with on-line banking/deposits it seems that scenario would be quite worthwhile for Expats.

Some U.S. Expat friends here tout the Capitol One MasterCard as being one of the best for Expats - I haven't looked into it personally.
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[JimGant]

She took my bank book and Visa Debit Card and disappeared. When she came back, she again asked if I would use the ATM. I refused and asked why she would not do a counter transaction. She finally agreed. I had to sign a form and a copy of my passport. They made a phone call to authorize the transaction. I finally got the cash, which was deposited immediately into my SCB account, but the ordeal took 45 minutes.

Was this a pin operation, or a "swipe and sign" operation?

I suspect pin, but in any event the transaction was encoded as "ATM" and the bank realized its measly 40 cents or so (so-called reverse interchange fee). Which, of course, is 5 bucks less than had you used their ATM machine. Suspect if you were a regular customer, they might have been more forthcoming with their less profitable (but customer friendly) over the counter procedure.

Reverse interchange fees (sourced from the networks and their card issuing financial institutions) have been falling of late, with the emphasis that ATM owners should no longer expect these reimbursement fees to cover their costs, let alone support a profit center. Thus, the addition of fees by ATM owners. (MasterCard has been the biggest culprit in reducing fees to ATM owners, thus we see the 180 baht fee vs. 150 baht for Visa.)

I'm not even sure what non-bank Aeon's business is, but I suspect it wouldn't be highly impacted if they shiite canned all their ATM machines (unlike a bank, where ATM machines actually do pay for themselves by replacing relatively expensive tellers). Maybe at one time Aeon's ATM machines were profit centers. Then, just a convenience for their customers. Now, with all these farangs wearing out their machinery, they first went to 20,000 max per pull (thus doubling the flat fee interchange reimbursement for the 40,000 per pull crowd). Now it's the 150 baht fee.

Farangs now go elsewhere? Why would Aeon care? As said, these machines haven't, at least of late, been a profit center -- just a convenience to their steady customers. Less farangs now means less wear and tear (thus cost) on the machines. And for the farangs that remain? 150 baht towards maintenance costs. Aeon's steady (Thai) customers will still have the convenience of the ATM machines -- with Aeon no longer eating that cost.

Good to see Japanese business back in the Deming mold.

[JimGant]

when I was going to be away on a trip and miss making the monthly Credit Card payment- I would overpay the previous payment by a sum that would cover the future payment that I was going to miss, thus avoiding the charges for not paying as agreed.

Hard to front load your credit card balances these days, at least with many credit card companies. This used to be a nice trick to skirt cash advance fees, since there, effectively, was no cash advance when you carried a credit balance. Here's a snippet from Capitol One:

You have posted or pending payments greater than 110% of your current balance. You can only pay when you have a positive balance.

This a rejoinder on limits to pre-payment.

Some U.S. Expat friends here tout the Capitol One MasterCard as being one of the best for Expats - I haven't looked into it personally.

Yes, indeed. Although their current best deal (Quicksilver, 1.5% cash back, no foreign transaction fee) comes in two flavors: Visa, for excellent credit rating; MasterCard for less than excellent.

[paz]

Some U.S. Expat friends here tout the Capitol One MasterCard as being one of the best for Expats - I haven't looked into it personally..

Capital One doesn't ship cards outside the US, while the rest, from my expereince, is good enough.

[MrWorldwide]

The over-the-counter experiences here seem to reflect the usual 'TiT' inconsistencies in bureaucratic practices from one site to another - I guess it will come down to one's willingness to persist, either from one branch to another or simply insisting that one is not willing to pay ATM fees to get anything over 20K out of an ATM. If Thai banks are anything like Oz banks, their employees are exempted from many fees - add the fact that you are a foreigner with your money in another bank and I can see why they might be less than helpful in processing over-the-counter withdrawals. Even the process of exchanging notes seems to take on a whole new level inside a bank branch, IME.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hard to front load your credit card balances these days, at least with many credit card companies. This used to be a nice trick to skirt cash advance fees, since there, effectively, was no cash advance when you carried a credit balance.

I was thinking over an approach to this that might work with no cash advance / no foreign currency fee credit cards like Penfed's Promise. See if anyone can find any holes in this...

Check the dates of your account cycle, and go to the Thai bank to do a counter cash advance say one day before the end of your statement cycle. Get your cash, and the next day, your cycle ends and your statement is posted within a day or so showing the amount owed. At that point, you can pay back the amount of your cash advance via transfer from whatever account you want via the credit card's online payment facility.

At worst, maybe you've incurred two or three days of interest, which at 9.99% APR, should come in at less than $1.

How's that???

If some of the Thai banks want to say... only counter cash advance with credit cards... I might well be able to oblige them.

[Gillyflower]

I'd like to reply to Langsuan Man and Tall Guy John

Firstly I would like to thank everyone for telling me that I can withdraw more than 10 000 at a time.

I have a Mastercard instant debit card and I always used it for withdrawals here in SEA. My bank charged me 6 euros and 2% which later melted into 8 euros +. About 5 or so years ago the ATMs (in CM at least) only gave out 10000 at a time. I gave up trying and have always assumed it was still the same. For 3 withdrawals it was costing me over 1000 a month instead of 352 baht.

Coincidentally at the same time I was given a sales talk for getting an Amex. The big advantage was that I paid no bank charges- only the 2% fee. And it has always been the case. When this forum came up - I checked my account and it was still like that. However - as the French would say - I have a flea in my ear.

In the past years any withdrawals went though my bank account within 2 days (3 if there was a weekend). This time here it takes anything from 10-15 days to get through. I though that rather strange so started checking.. Everything in January correct with a few centimes different BUT I see that in February it is a good 3 euros more than I can make out.

Apart from the fact that it costs a few euros more than an instant debit card . I can't see any way that they are making me pay. So I seem to be making a "profit" of 150 baht.

By the way I don't know whether it makes any difference but my card is issued by Am Express in France. I never use it for ATMs there because I pay a bank fee. Work that one out!!!!!!

Something that perhaps has nothing to do with this subject. But if I use (in this case) my Mastercard in an ATM that is not my bank more than 4 times in a calendar month I have to pay 1 euro each time.

I'll check on this biz when I get home in late March.

[Ticketmaster]

I think I'll wait until the baht gets back near 33:$1, if it does, then take my TMB and BKK bank books and go to TMB first. Tell them I want a US Schwab VISA debit card counter transaction with no fees for one million baht to be deposited into my account, or, showing them my BKK book, would they rather I go over there. I can call Schwab (toll free) and get a temporary daily limit increase on the card to any amount I specify.

And, of course, trying to sending me to the ATM for a million baht at 20K per pull (50 pulls!) would be ludicrous and not an option for them.

If they do it once, I'll save the papers and use them for precedent for all future attempts for lesser amounts.

[Ticketmaster]

when I was going to be away on a trip and miss making the monthly Credit Card payment- I would overpay the previous payment by a sum that would cover the future payment that I was going to miss, thus avoiding the charges for not paying as agreed.

Hard to front load your credit card balances these days, at least with many credit card companies. This used to be a nice trick to skirt cash advance fees, since there, effectively, was no cash advance when you carried a credit balance. Here's a snippet from Capitol One:

You have posted or pending payments greater than 110% of your current balance. You can only pay when you have a positive balance.

This a rejoinder on limits to pre-payment.

Some U.S. Expat friends here tout the Capitol One MasterCard as being one of the best for Expats - I haven't looked into it personally.

Yes, indeed. Although their current best deal (Quicksilver, 1.5% cash back, no foreign transaction fee) comes in two flavors: Visa, for excellent credit rating; MasterCard for less than excellent.

You tried to front load your card using an online payment and were solidly blocked by a computer algorithm that forced you to go back and "get it right." But suppose you had a payment due and you mailed them an old fashioned check for 110% of the balance. They could not refuse the check, and cause a late payment fee. They also can't bifurcate the check. I think they would have to take it, much to their chagrin.

I'd try it, but have sworn off credit cards completely. I no longer own one. I have a bill payment service with Schwab, which I access by computer and they actually send out a paper check.

[Pib]

I'm not sure but I think once you have a positve balance on you U.S. credit card account for 90 days the bank is required to mail you a refund of that balance...or it just may be individual bank policy. That has happened to me a couple of times on one or two credit cards I used infrequently just to keep them active but occasionally a positive balance developed on my account due to refunds, cash back rewards program....and I had the cash back rewards setup only to issue a cash reward payment upon my request. Just within the last 6 months or so this happened to me on my infrequently used USAA credit card when a positive balance of less than $2 built up on my credit card account for around 3 months due to a Ebay buy partial refund.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You tried to front load your card using an online payment and were solidly blocked by a computer algorithm that forced you to go back and "get it right." But suppose you had a payment due and you mailed them an old fashioned check for 110% of the balance. They could not refuse the check, and cause a late payment fee. They also can't bifurcate the check. I think they would have to take it, much to their chagrin.

For those folks living in Thailand, I'd think it pretty unlikely people would want to be postal mailing in checks to pay off (or overpay) monthly debits on U.S. credit cards.

However, as I mentioned above, an easy solution, it seems to me, is to just wait until the day before your credit cards's monthly cycle is due to end as the time to do a credit card counter cash advance. Then, when your account statement posts in a day or two, just go online and pay back the cash advance you've taken on the credit card.

As long as the card has no foreign currency fee or cash advance fee, any incurred interest for a couple of days would be very minimal -- certainly far less than a 150 or 180 baht ATM fee.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Coincidentally at the same time I was given a sales talk for getting an Amex. The big advantage was that I paid no bank charges- only the 2% fee. And it has always been the case. When this forum came up - I checked my account and it was still like that. However - as the French would say - I have a flea in my ear.

In the past years any withdrawals went though my bank account within 2 days (3 if there was a weekend). This time here it takes anything from 10-15 days to get through. I though that rather strange so started checking.. Everything in January correct with a few centimes different BUT I see that in February it is a good 3 euros more than I can make out.

Apart from the fact that it costs a few euros more than an instant debit card . I can't see any way that they are making me pay. So I seem to be making a "profit" of 150 baht.

By the way I don't know whether it makes any difference but my card is issued by Am Express in France. I never use it for ATMs there because I pay a bank fee. Work that one out!!!!!!

Gilly, sorry, but I'm not quite following your message, but I'll also be the first to admit I have no familiarity with French bank card policies... Nonetheless...

--At one point above, you say you got the French Amex card because it would have no bank charges. But later below, you say you don't use the Amex card in France for ATM pulls because you'd pay a bank fee.

--You also talk about your Amex card and then start talking about your bank account and the time for processing charges. Credit cards normally aren't associated with bank accounts, and credit card charges normally aren't processed through or deducted from bank accounts.

So, I guess I should ask, when you use your Amex card for purchases, are the charges automatically deducted from some bank account, or do you get a bill at the end of the month from Amex with all your purchases that you then need to pay? The first approach is a debit card. The second approach is a credit card. Which do you have?

--Also, in all of your post, you don't seem to have answered the two basic questions I posed above:

1. Normally with credit cards, any time you take a cash advance, the card issuer (Amex in this case) begins charging you interest on the amount withdrawn as of that date. No month grace period to repay like with normal credit card purchases. Are you saying your card doesn't charge you interest when you use it for a cash advance.

2. Likewise, normally with credit cards, anytime you take a cash advance, the card issuer typically charges a fee for the privilege of allowing you to get a cash advance because it's like a loan from the card issuer... normally 3% or so, although Amex U.S. charges 2.7%. So, if you withdrew $1,000 U.S., they'd post a charge to your account for $1,027 (being the original $1000 plus $27 as the cash advance fee), plus whatever interest has accrued? Are you saying French Amex cards have no cash advance fee?

[Pib]

Yeap, that is the one I was beating around the bush about. And I could have switched to that card back in Sep 13 when I was having an issue with my PenFed Cash Reward credit card which pays 5% (five) cash-back for gas purchases at-the-pump. That is, where you can slide your card into the gas pump to make payment at self serve stations...but in Thailand they don't have such a thing as they fill your vehicle and process your credit card using the standard POS transaction machine just like in stores...maybe in the future Thailand will start using pay-at-pump machines and I can then earn 5% cash back....but knowing its Thailand they'll probably set the pump machines up to charge a Bt150 foreign card fee.

The problem in finding an accommodating bank/branch is indeed true...I fully expect such branches will be the exception versus the norm. I miss Lady AEON ATM.

Well heck fire...I just cheched the Terms & Conditions of my Penfed Cash Rewards credit card and it does not charge a cash advance fee..and as I already knew no foreign transaction fee either. Assuming I can make a payment in full the same day I get the cash advance I could possibbly then escape any interest fee also which I think is 9.99% APR. I'll do a little more research and maybe see if the account will take a positve balance/advance payment...and just may be going back to that Bangkok Bank branch very soon to give it another try...and see if the branch comes up with a new excuse not to do a cash advance.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That's a good catch, Pib... Indeed, the terms for both the Penfed Cash Rewards and Cash Reward Plus credit cards do indeed seem to have the same essential characteristics (for our purposes) as the Penfed Promise card. That is: no foreign currency fee, no cash advance fee, and 9.99% APRs.

Meanwhile, I do hope you, me and others can find Thai bank branches that will do counter withdrawals with regular debit cards. But I likewise hope your next ordeal trying to find one doesn't take another hour in the bank branch.

The standard card seems to have a $25 annual fee, whereas the plus card has no annual fee.

[ubonrthai]

I think I found a method that will help those of you who do regular withdrawals with a foreign debit card like I do. Someone mentioned this earlier in the thread so I spent the last few hours checking it out. I normally make two withdrawals at AEON ATM's every month. My card is a DEBIT card from a small local bank in the U.S. that charges no flat fees or percentage fees for foreign transactions. It has the MasterCard logo on it.

I went into a Bangkok Bank small branch office and I told them to do a "cash advance" using my DEBIT card. I used my passport for ID but they will also take a Thai driver's license. I took out 30,000b and there was zero fee. Checked my bank online and there is no fee there either. Not yet at least. I'll call tonight and double check. I got 32.51b for a USD exchange rate. At the time of transaction, Google showed 32.315b. For the last 5 years, every single time (around 120x) I've taken money out of AEON, I've checked Google at the time of transaction and every single time, the exchange rate was no more than 0.3b LESS than what Google showed. This is the first time ever that I've gotten an exchange rate better than what Google showed at the time of transaction. Either today is a coincidence or AEON has been screwing all of us for years with a bad exchange rate or hiding the fee. I think the other major banks are capable of doing this but you may have to go to the main branch office. For example, TMB said they could do a cash advance but I'd have to go to their main branch in another part of town. Considering my experience today, I'll be going into Bangkok Bank from now on for no fee. If you do a cash advance with your credit card, you will likely incur some major fees like a friend of mine did a few months ago and others have talked about in this thread. I did this "cash advance" today with my DEBIT card.

I forgot to ask Bangkok Bank what their limit is for a cash advance. You may also want to call your home bank and tell them to increase the amount you can withdraw in a 24 hour period. Since mine is a small local bank, they are willing to look at my situation and greatly increase my limit above the usual policy. Large banks won't be as flexible.

These were the fees the ATM gave me today using the DEBIT card mentioned above. The 2 banks without a fee I didn't try because I was afraid I wouldn't get a chance to cancel before the transaction.

TMB (blue) ATM 30,000b max and 150b fee

Bangkok Bank (dark blue)25,000b max and 150b fee

AEON (grey/purple) 20,000b max and 150b fee

Kasikorn (green) 20,000b max and 150b fee

SCB (purple) 20,000b max

Kruengthai (light blue) 20,000b max

Ayutthaya (yellow) 30,000b max and 180b fee

GSB (pink) 20,000b max and they claimed their fee was only 100b but their ATM's won't take my card.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Great report, Ubon... Thanks very much, especially for the comprehensive info on the per withdrawal limits at the various Thai bank companies.

Ayudhya had been mentiond previously here as a 30,000b bank, as had CIMB I believe. But I don't recall anyone mentioning TMB in that group. So, it's good to have choices in the 30,000 baht per withdrawal group.

As for Government Savings Bank, long ago at the beginning, they used to be fee free when most of the private Thai banks adopted the 150 baht fee. Then later, finally after many months, GSB went along with the rest and began charging 150b. I had been using them for a long time during their no-fee period, but stopped and went to AEON when GSB started charging the fee.

I do remember there was some compatibility problem with their ATMs and foreign cards at some point. On the ATMs, usually they have a list of the bank networks the ATM machine will support, just as the reverse of your bank card usually has the logos of what networks it will support. PLUS and Cirrus are among the most common for U.S. cards. But some Thai ATMs only support cards listed as being part of the "Thai ATM Pool," which U.S. cards aren't.

[Pib]

Ubon,

Good report. Since you said you got the MasterCard exchange rate from Google I expect your are just looking at some Forex rate...that wouldn't be the MasterCard exchange rate. I just looked at the MasterCard exchange rate page and the rate today is 32.3252 baht/USD. Although the page always shows yesterday's settlement date since the site is geared toward MasterCard logo credit card transactions/settlement date that is the exchange rate you would get "today/15 Feb" in Thailand when using a MasterCard "debit card" to the best of my knowledge and from what I've experienced with my MasterCard credit cards..and from other posts regarding use of no foreign transaction fee debit cards with the MasterCard logo. Just FYI.

Now, let me start writing up my post regarding my trip back to the same Bangkok Bank branch today with "PenFed Visa credit card in hand" (no foreign transaction fee or cash advance fee) this time to do an over the counter withdrawal/cash advance versus one of my no foreign transaction fee debit cards which resulted in failure yesterday at that branch...but today with "credit card" in hand it was a smooth and quick transaction...just like the bank reps told me yesterday..."can not do" a debit card for a cash advance with them but "can do" with a credit card.

Pib

[ubonrthai]

Since you said you got the MasterCard exchange rate from Google I expect your are just looking at some Forex rate...

I linked it above. I just use that as a baseline for comparing with what I've gotten in the past.

[Gillyflower]

Hi Tall Guy John. I will try to explain as clearly as possible. We are only talking about the ATM OK? I only took this card because there were no 6 euros (then) bank charges ABROAD. I receive a monthly statement for any purchases made and I have 30 days etc. However NO ATM business is shown on this statement.. It is completely apart. I don't know how it works but it shows up on my Credit Agricole bank statement as "payment made to Amex" 2-3 days later. No details no nothing.

Maybe in those few days Amex make me pay some interest but it is very small. Since this came up I have checked on the ATM but as I don't know at exactly what rate they have made their calculation I can't be sure. It can only be about 50 centimes i.e. 20 baht.

Why if I use this card in France I pay bank fees.........I am going to be very French.......throw my arms up in the air and say.....How the b f ing hell would I know. I tried to get some info about all of this but won't have much satisfaction until I get home. Two days ago it was 2% but it has gone up to 2.5. The other thing that puzzles me greatly is.....I told you that the transaction goes through into my bank account within 2-3 days.....but this time over it takes between 10-15. Methinks there is something rotten in the State of Denmark.

Thanks for your time.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks much for the explanation, Gilly...

The kind of arrangement you seem to have is unlike anything I've ever heard of before. But as I said, I know nothing about French banking.

However, your explanation above does seem to explain why you're not getting hit with interest charges on the Amex card when doing cash advances, and that seems to be the corresponding automatic debit from your Credit Agricole bank account to pay off Amex.

It's a big wonderful world of banking weirdness out there.

I can't say I can recall anyone ever posting here about trying to do an ATM cash advance with a U.S. Amex credit card, so I don't know whether the 150 baht Thai banks' fee would or wouldn't apply. But for U.S. AMEX cards doing cash advances abroad, I'm pretty certain both the Amex 2.7% foreign currency fee and the Amex 3% cash advance fee would both be applied.

[Pib]

Back in my post #208 above I described my attempt yesterday to use one of my U.S. no foreign transaction fee "debit" cards to do an over-the-counter withdrawal/cash advance. Same debit card I have used in AEON ATMs many, many times. In that post the Bangkok Bank branch would not do a counter withdrawal/cash advance for a debit card, but they said they would for a credit card. OK, I leave sad.

I knew my Pentagon Federal Credit Union (PenFed) Visa Cash Rewards Card Plus credit card did not charge a foreign transaction fee but not until this morning did I find out it also does not charge a cash advance fee...before my brain just didn't care about any cash advance fee since I had no plans to use the card for a cash advance; just purchase transactions in Thailand which I've done a few times using the card at Tesco Lotus. Now knowing there is no cash advance fee along with no foreign transaction fee I decided after checking a few things on my PenFed online account regarding adding money to a card balance which has no balance (i.e., putting it into a positive balance) I just may go back to the same branch and try the cash advance again.

I logged onto my PenFed and confirmed I could transfer money into my card balance to get a positive balance. I had zero balance and tried a transfer of $1 into it and it transferred no problem. OK, that means I would be able to front load the balance so to day to immediately offset any incoming cash advance. Although there is no cash advance fee, the clock on interest (9.99% APR for this card) does start running immediately upon getting the cash advance. But if I front load/pay the same day I get the cash advance I should be able to get away with no fees/interest or just a few bucks interest worst case.

OK, off to the bank branch I go. Get my queue number, get called in about 5 minutes, hand the teller my passport, passbook issued from another branch, my credit card, and a deposit slip. I say I want to do a 50,000 baht cash advance with the credit card and deposit all of it into my passbook saving account. The teller takes my passport and credit card, goes and makes a copy of the passport and I even ask if she wants to copy my Thai drivers license while she is still copying the passport (I thinking anything to make them feel more comfortable about the transaction). The teller then walks behind a walled area with the credit card/docs which was the same place the teller yesterday went behind but came out with a person in-tow who told me "can not" for a debit card. Anyway, today the teller came back out from behind the wall about 10 seconds later with no one in-tow and asked for my card PIN and then she went back behind the wall....about 30 seconds later she came back out with the credit card receipt and copied docs for me to sign.....no fee was reflected on the Bangkok Bank receipt. Then the teller did the transaction to deposit the cash advance into my bank account. I felt a little uneasy for a few seconds about giving the teller my PIN but apparently they process such transactions in this special area vs letting you punch in the PIN right at the teller window like we do in the U.S. But, I think I can trust the folks at the bank branch since this is how they process such credit card cash advance transactions...but, like all my bank and card accounts, I will continue to watch them closely. Success...I was interfacing with the teller for about 5 minutes to do all of this...add-in queue time of 5 minutes and it took 10 minutes total. Absolutely no resistance to doing a cash advance using a credit card. Awesome.

Came back home and checked the Visa exchange rate for today...it was 32.28/USD...I then checked the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming transfers just for comparison and it was 32.43. OK, Visa rate was a little less today, but as I've mentioned in many other posts sometimes the Visa rate is a little lower than the TT Buying Rate and sometimes it's a little higher...and usually (not always) it's better than the MasterCard exchange rate. In the past I would routinely check the Visa exchange rate "before" doing an AEON ATM withdrawal and compare to the TT Buying Rate to determine if I wanted to do the withdrawal that day because with a little effort I usually ended up selecting a withdrawal date where Visa had a higher rate than the TT Buying Rate. But today, I really didn't care as this was my "test" to see if I could use the credit card for a cash advance and since I already know from experience the Visa rate will be plus or minus a few stang of the TT Buying Rate. For future cash advances I will compare the Visa and TT rates in advance and make my decision on whether to withdraw today or not, especially since I will be able to make much larger withdrawals using my credit card compared to the $1000 daily limit on each of my debit cards. Anyway, at above mentioned 32.28 Visa rate a charge of $1548.80 should hit my PenFed credit card account.

When logged onto my PenFed account about an hour after doing the cash advance no charge has hit yet, but I was expecting that. Seems it takes a few days for such transactions to appear on my PenFed account...apparently they don't appear until actually "posted/settled" vs my CapOne credit card accounts where they show "pending transactions" which reflect immediately and "posted" transactions in another area. Regarding "posting/settlement" date, that is the date the exchange rate will actually be finalized at least for purchase transactions..."if" cash advance transaction work the same way I won't know the settled/final exchange rate for a few more days...but maybe cash advances are treated like debit card transactions and the settlement date is the day of the transaction although you may not see it posted for a few days....I will know that answer in a few days. On my PenFed account I initiated a $1560 ACH payment from one of my other banks to pay the incoming cash advance transaction. And then after reading some transfer notes it appears I’m probably going to have a few days of interest to pay since I did the cash advance on a Saturday (a non business day) but the interest starts racking up immediately regardless, but my transfer/payment won't be effective till the following business day which will be Monday. So, I'll probably pay a few dollars (a little less than $3 I figure) of interest on this cash advance...but a lot depends on what the final exchange rate and settlement date turns out to be for a credit card cash advance....in the future I will only do a cash advance and payment on business days (Mon-Fri) to avoid that "weekend" got-you...and just to pay it safe I may just do them on Tue, Wed, or Thu to take in account the date differential between the U.S. and Thailand and how the settlement process appears to work...I will know more once this cash advance and payment complete its cycle....this one is my test drive so to speak.

Assuming no surprises over the coming days as the cash advance posts and the payment arrives, it just may work out I will have a better way than before to get money in Thailand. I say better because with my two no fee debit cards I was using in the AEON ATMs I was limited to $2,000 per day both cards combined...then I would go to a Bangkok Bank Cash Deposit Machine in the same mall and deposit the funds to recharge my Bangkok Bank account. Using the PenFed credit card I can do all of that in one visit to the bank and get a larger amount....and my line of credit on my PenFed card is very healthy and "all" of it can be used for a cash advance where some credit cards only allow a portion of your credit line to be used for cash advances. I didn't ask the teller what Bangkok Bank's limit might be for cash advances...I know it's at least Bt50,000 baht based on my cash advance success today....I may attempt a cash advance for Bt100,000 next time with all of it to be deposited into my Bangkok Bank account with no debit card. I use this account to maintain most of my money and then do a free ibanking transfer as needed to my account with has a debit card which I don't keep a lot in....I figure this would help limit the damage from someone skimming my debit card account.

So, right now it's looking like my ability to use my PenFed Visa credit card for a cash advance and not incur any cash advance fee or interest with just a little planning/preloading the card may work out to be a better deal for me than the relationship I had with AEON ATMs. More feedback to come mid week after the cash advance and accompanying payment posts...then I will know all the financial details. Cheers.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Question, Pib... and thanks for the good report above.

You opted to do your first credit card trial with a 50,000b advance amount.

Do you have any idea, if you had opted for a smaller amount, say something less than BKK Bank's apparent 20,000b per withdrawal ATM limit, whether the bank staff might have pushed you to use the ATM with your credit card instead?

The same way they've previously been reported to do with attempted bank counter debit card cash advances in other reports here???

In other words, do we think the banks are going to be OK for bank counter credit card advances at any reasonable amounts? Or the key to a successful bank counter credit card advance is still asking for more than what their ATMs will dispense?

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BTW, I guess I should add to expand this discussion to those not familiar with Pentagon Federal...

PFCU is one of the largest credit unions in the U.S. and has very good financial status, as well as a long history of offering both very good CD rates and some very good credit card deals.

But the important thing for readers here to know is: Although PFCU has its roots in serving military-related members, PFCU membership is actually open to any U.S. citizens, even those with no military affiliation, via joining a veterans-related association. You don't need to live in a particular area or state in order to be eligible.

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So, if this little experiment with bank counter cash advances using PFCU's various credit cards, that have no cash advance fees and no foreign currency fees, is successful, then hopefully folks here will be able to identify some other NO FCF or Cash Advance Fee bank or credit union credit cards that also could be used in the same way.