Half children!: Encounters with Thais/schools

[ABCer]

OP, I understand your concerns.

Thais are renown for their nationalistic sentiments both on the street and Gov't level.

Your kids will be discriminated against.

Being half cast or half breed can not be changed but you can turn this to their advantage.

Explain to them that they are different - that is better.

Politically incorrect. Psychologically saves them from hurting.

Sorry, but this is life. Since you cannot change Thais, - adjust and prepare the kids.

Or take them out of the country.

But if / when they come back they will develop the same attitude of superiority.

Your nephew should have thought about this before they were born. Your family is not racist. But Thais are. You can't change this.

Edited February 11, 2014 by ABCer

[Morakot]

Being half cast or half breed can not be changed.

We can start using a more neutral language that does not legitimise discrimination, by insinuating these are improper people.

[krisb]

Time to find a serious school, not a racist school.

Yes, but people also need to start with their own awareness and stop perpetuating racism by means of ill-defined language.

There are no "halves". We are dealing we dual citizens or children of two (or multiple) ethnic origins .

True Morakot. That head master deserved a verbal bashing he is crazy.

[HardenedSoul]

Time to find a serious school, not a racist school.

Yes, but people also need to start with their own awareness and stop perpetuating racism by means of ill-defined language.

There are no "halves". We are dealing we dual citizens or children of two (or multiple) ethnic origins .

True Morakot. That head master deserved a verbal bashing he is crazy.

Well not really.

How can people expect political correctness here?

Didn't we all know the score before arriving here and deciding to knock up the natives?

Didn't we all say how crappy the West had become because of PC?

Can someone clarify - are we for or against Political Correctness?

[Morakot]

Yes, but people also need to start with their own awareness and stop perpetuating racism by means of ill-defined language.

There are no "halves". We are dealing we dual citizens or children of two (or multiple) ethnic origins .

True Morakot. That head master deserved a verbal bashing he is crazy.

Thanks! It's disheartening to read about this, especially since the people who complain about the racism indirectly (and surely unknowingly) re-enforce the discrimination with their own words.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Morakot

[Thai at Heart]

So if this is the attitude with those who are half-Thai and bilingual (and it most certainly is, especially amongst the lesser educated Thai) isn't it stupefying how certain members who regularly post here claim, and truly believe, they are embraced as "one of us" by their neighbors and other Thais?

Chiang Mai is on target. The other parents will not like a "half breed" far outperforming their precious ones. Think of the disruption in English class, when, after twelve years of lessons, the other kids are saying, "Where you go?" while little Luke is saying, "Where are you going?"

Confusion!

Being genuinely accepted takes a very very long time. And then at the end, don't be surprised at what you learn even having been friends for decades.

Nationalism is a horrible thing.

[ABCer]

Being half cast or half breed can not be changed.

We can start using a more neutral language that does not legitimise discrimination, by insinuating these are improper people.

I agree with you completely.

Only used this terminology to emphasize the Thai problem.

It is not mine and not OP family problem, but it is here and very real.

[krisb]

Time to find a serious school, not a racist school.

Yes, but people also need to start with their own awareness and stop perpetuating racism by means of ill-defined language.

There are no "halves". We are dealing we dual citizens or children of two (or multiple) ethnic origins .

True Morakot. That head master deserved a verbal bashing he is crazy.

Well not really.

How can people expect political correctness here?

Didn't we all know the score before arriving here and deciding to knock up the natives?

Didn't we all say how crappy the West had become because of PC?

Can someone clarify - are we for or against Political Correctness?

It's more a case of common sense in the year 2014/2556. Especially coming from someone who deals with kids should have an understanding and show some heart. Quite disgusting.

[Morakot]

How can people expect political correctness here?

Didn't we all know the score before arriving here and deciding to knock up the natives?

This about the child. It has been here from day one (I guess). It is native as such, hence it's discrimination by some Thai people against another Thai people on the basis of something irrelevant (i.e. who is your day or what is the colour of your skin)

[Khon Thai Ben Khon Dee]

It must be utterly frightening for a Thai teacher to have a student that might actually ask questions, point out a mistake, give an opinion, think of alternative ways, think objectively, try to engage in a discussion.

[Robininbkk]

I understand the reactions and answers of the principals completely. They might have experienced or heard from others or it's a common generalization amongst Thais that, ''luk kruengs'' are a pain in the proverbal arse. Meaning, they will cause problems for the classes. They are not easy to brainwash, to control, and most likely to have an own opinion! Which is very unwanted in Thai schools, the teacher is master and all students must listen and agree to everything the teacher says. That;s how it goes in Thai schools.

Secondly, he might be too bright in comparison to the thai kids, this is not meaning that Thai kids are less intelligent, but if raised and influenced by a farang parent will give the luk krueng a permanent headstart in regard of knowledge and intellect.

Thirdly, can you imagine the English classes, where your kid speaks better and better English skills than the English teacher? Massive face lose for the poor teacher

So don't be offended by this, just look for a good private schools.

[Bender]

well you should read the sirchai's thread about his stepson. Same same but different...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/700779-what-do-thais-in-general-think-of-foreigners-who-married-a-woman-who-had-a-child/

People who choose to live in thailand, well that your life. But to raise your children in a such place, you have to be really egoist....

[Morakot]

Being half cast or half breed can not be changed.

We can start using a more neutral language that does not legitimise discrimination, by insinuating these are improper people.

I agree with you completely.

Only used this terminology to emphasize the Thai problem.

It is not mine and not OP family problem, but it is here and very real.

Good! By creating awareness people can make a difference.

So for example the headmaster should have immediately been told that the child is Thai, that it is like other children growing up this country, and that the colour of its skin and the nationality of its dad is not really important.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Morakot

[ABCer]

So if this is the attitude with those who are half-Thai and bilingual (and it most certainly is, especially amongst the lesser educated Thai) isn't it stupefying how certain members who regularly post here claim, and truly believe, they are embraced as "one of us" by their neighbors and other Thais?

Chiang Mai is on target. The other parents will not like a "half breed" far outperforming their precious ones. Think of the disruption in English class, when, after twelve years of lessons, the other kids are saying, "Where you go?" while little Luke is saying, "Where are you going?"

Confusion!

Being genuinely accepted takes a very very long time. And then at the end, don't be surprised at what you learn even having been friends for decades.

Nationalism is a horrible thing.

Agreed. But there are 3 different levels of nationalism.

Street level.

Gov't level.

'Face' level. (by this I mean appearance)

Unfortunately Thais have symptoms of all three and 'loving' it. One of their 'culture' things.

[mick220675]

My daughter goes to a school in a nearby town in rural Thailand, many of the kids have white fathers the school is happy to have them. We have never had a problem with any discrimination.

[Somtamnication]

My six year old daughter is the only half Thai, half white student in her school.

She is very well accepted and even loved by the students. They spoil her!

The teachers on the other hand are very rough on her and I think they actually discriminate against her because of her "mixed race".

She gets lower grades on her homework than Thai students when she does a better job then them. I have compared her homework with that of her friends and confirmed this.

At every school function awards are given out to at least 2/3 of the students for achievements, no matter how small.

All Thai children receive some awards.

In three years, my daughter has never received any awards, and she is a very good, well behaved student.

She spoke both English and Spanish before coming to Thailand and became fluent in Thai within a couple of months.

She speaks English better than the Thai English teacher, so, he ignores her in class.

They had the nerve to tell her they want her to represent the school in the yearly English speaking competition!

I told them that if she was good enough to represent the school, her grades would be as high as the Thai students!

Racist and discriminating?

Yes!

But Thais love to win!

Right now it is a financial struggle for us,

but I am trying to find a way to send her to a good private school without racist Thai teachers and administrators.

I feel for you. Buenas suerte (good luck).

[Khon Thai Ben Khon Dee]

Being half cast or half breed can not be changed.

We can start using a more neutral language that does not legitimise discrimination, by insinuating these are improper people.

I agree with you completely.

Only used this terminology to emphasize the Thai problem.

It is not mine and not OP family problem, but it is here and very real.

Half-caste (not half cast, btw) and half-child are not really that un-PC to be honest. I find the term African American more insulting, for someone who has never left America never mind been to Africa. Never mind that White South-Africans are not allowed to compete in some school's African American games in the States.

Eurasian sounds a bit crap.

Perhaps call them DC's. For Doubly-Cultured.

Though that would go against so many Westerners here not wanting their child to undergo any sort of Thai culturisms.

[ABCer]

Being half cast or half breed can not be changed.

We can start using a more neutral language that does not legitimise discrimination, by insinuating these are improper people.

I agree with you completely.

Only used this terminology to emphasize the Thai problem.

It is not mine and not OP family problem, but it is here and very real.

Good! By creating awareness people can make a difference.

So for example the headmaster should have immediately been told that the child is Thai, that it is like other children growing up this country, and that the colour of its skin and the nationality of its dad is not really important.

Dear Morakot, I agree with what you say. But I am a skeptic. You cannot re-educate existing Headmasters. Sorry.

[Khon Thai Ben Khon Dee]

If you think you're the harsh victim of racism here, try being a poor Burmese, Cambodian or Hilltribe kid.

[Morakot]

So for example the headmaster should have immediately been told that the child is Thai, that it is like other children growing up this country, and that the colour of its skin and the nationality of its dad is not really important.

Dear Morakot, I agree with what you say. But I am a skeptic. You cannot re-educate existing Headmasters. Sorry.

You are right! One person cannot do this. It's a collective effort, hence we all should do this (in of course a non-confrontational, face-saving manner).

[Showbags]

I prefer the term 'mongrel'

[Khon Thai Ben Khon Dee]

I've gotten used to 'Alien'.

[farang000999]

Not trying to mean, I am a father.

But every single thread on every single internet board in every single country about ay thing related to children is always the same thing

MY CHILD IS PERFECT. MY CHILD IS THE BEST.

In the thread just linked above, the guy goes on about how his step son beat the shit out of a bully even though the bully was much bigger than his step son...

Every thread is the same, everyone's child is perfect...

[Robininbkk]

I prefer the term 'mongrel'

In a (ancient) civilised world they call it ''bastard'' or ''pedigree bloodline mutt''. But you are not far from it.

I'm sure I'll be flamed for this post by the super sensitive and PC crowds, but at least I don't have high expectations

[BlackArtemis]

The Head Teacher is quite right to be concerned, the issue is disruption to the learning speed of the class. Why not tell him/her that you've given your child explicit instruction to learn at half his/her normal speed thus allowing the rest of the class to keep up.

Not just this, but they know that foreign parents are going to be more trouble when it comes to demanding quality education

for some reason the following grading scale is just not enough for them.

79.5-100 = 4.0

74.5-79 = 3.5

69.5-74 = 3.0

continue every 5 points...

I've hear about this BS from parents, friends, and kids I have tutored in the past about Montfort, PRC, Regina, and Sacred. I am sure the same crap happens at Yupparaj, Dara, Wichai, Sarasat, Wattano, Varee, and Rangsit or whatever that new one will be.

When faced with having kids in Thailand I realized I had two choices, make at least 150k a month or become a teacher at a decent international school for the free tuition. No kids yet though.

[wym]

When faced with having kids in Thailand I realized I had two choices, make at least 150k a month or become a teacher at a decent international school for the free tuition. No kids yet though.

Since the good international schools are at least 50K per month (some 70+) PER CHILD, you probably need to increase that income goal.

If you qualify to get hired as a teacher at a good one, make sure to actually get the job from overseas, at least double the income of a local-hire position given the extra benefits.

And you left out the more realistic option - once your kids get to an age where you want to empower them to get into a competitive elite university back home - TAKE THEM BACK to your home country to get a decent free education.

IMO remaining here if you can't afford the top international schools is irresponsible parenting.

[somchaimaidai]

When faced with having kids in Thailand I realized I had two choices, make at least 150k a month or become a teacher at a decent international school for the free tuition. No kids yet though.

Since the good international schools are at least 50K per month (some 70+) PER CHILD, you probably need to increase that income goal.

If you qualify to get hired as a teacher at a good one, make sure to actually get the job from overseas, at least double the income of a local-hire position given the extra benefits.

And you left out the more realistic option - once your kids get to an age where you want to empower them to get into a competitive elite university back home - TAKE THEM BACK to your home country to get a decent free education.

IMO remaining here if you can't afford the top international schools is irresponsible parenting.

Totally agree, I do not have children with a Thai national but have worked here for a private enterprise and more recently for an MNC and during that time I have seen/ been part of active discrimination of LK in the interview/application stages. I am not condoning it but as parents you have a responsibility to know it is there and sending your LK kids to a a standard school/ university in Thailand is (in my opinion) similar to knowingly inflicting them with a disability. Your kids deserve better than that.

[BlackArtemis]

When faced with having kids in Thailand I realized I had two choices, make at least 150k a month or become a teacher at a decent international school for the free tuition. No kids yet though.

Since the good international schools are at least 50K per month (some 70+) PER CHILD, you probably need to increase that income goal.

If you qualify to get hired as a teacher at a good one, make sure to actually get the job from overseas, at least double the income of a local-hire position given the extra benefits.

And you left out the more realistic option - once your kids get to an age where you want to empower them to get into a competitive elite university back home - TAKE THEM BACK to your home country to get a decent free education.

IMO remaining here if you can't afford the top international schools is irresponsible parenting.

Actually m3-m6 can run upwards of 100-300k a term. Meaning at around 300k a year, you can expect to shell out 25,000 a month in school fees. I live modestly, Older civic not a fortuner, smaller house, not a McMansion, a kawa not a Ducati :shrug: 150k is more than enough, I could do it on less.

I am a certified teacher in the US and do have a decent paying job here, however I am moving back to the US anyways for other reasons. When I get back to Thailand, it will be with a masters +5-8, giving me access to a competitive school.

As far as the irresponsible parent comment goes, I would disagree. As schooling in the US is based on your zip code, and thus paycheck, a teacher in the US is going to have to try hard (lower salary) to make sure they can get into a good public school district or shell out the $ for private school. Thus having the degrees and experience to teach at one of the better, not necessarily top schools, may be a better choice.

Hell, I know Thai's in the US who had less than stellar k-12 education, managed to get into a decent Uni over seas and have done quite well for themselves. Mostly because they had parents instilling strong work ethic, etc etc.

[wym]

Totally agree, I do not have children with a Thai national but have worked here for a private enterprise and more recently for an MNC and during that time I have seen/ been part of active discrimination of LK in the interview/application stages. I am not condoning it but as parents you have a responsibility to know it is there and sending your LK kids to a a standard school/ university in Thailand is (in my opinion) similar to knowingly inflicting them with a disability. Your kids deserve better than that.

The fundamental problem is the just plain poor quality of education across the board except for the top dozen or so true international schools in the Kingdom.

Any supposed discrimination against LK is IMO totally minor and besides the point.

Edited February 11, 2014 by wym

[wym]

Since the good international schools are at least 50K per month (some 70+) PER CHILD, you probably need to increase that income goal.

If you qualify to get hired as a teacher at a good one, make sure to actually get the job from overseas, at least double the income of a local-hire position given the extra benefits.

And you left out the more realistic option - once your kids get to an age where you want to empower them to get into a competitive elite university back home - TAKE THEM BACK to your home country to get a decent free education.

IMO remaining here if you can't afford the top international schools is irresponsible parenting.

Actually m3-m6 can run upwards of 100-300k a term. Meaning at around 300k a year, you can expect to shell out 25,000 a month in school fees. I live modestly, Older civic not a fortuner, smaller house, not a McMansion, a kawa not a Ducati :shrug: 150k is more than enough, I could do it on less.

My point is that there isn't a decent school in the Kingdom that cheap. The only schools I'd consider sending my kids don't have any Thais in a position of authority over any teachers, and the only Thai teachers are teaching Thai language and TAs under farang home room teachers.

I am a certified teacher in the US and do have a decent paying job here, however I am moving back to the US anyways for other reasons. When I get back to Thailand, it will be with a masters +5-8, giving me access to a competitive school.

That's great, make sure you bring your kids with you.

And make sure you get hired by one of the top international schools from their overseas recruiting efforts, do NOT apply directly as if you have any local connections. Getting the full expat package makes a HUGE difference, up to 100% better compensation overall.

As far as the irresponsible parent comment goes, I would disagree. As schooling in the US is based on your zip code, and thus paycheck, a teacher in the US is going to have to try hard (lower salary) to make sure they can get into a good public school district or shell out the $ for private school. Thus having the degrees and experience to teach at one of the better, not necessarily top schools, may be a better choice.

Hell, I know Thai's in the US who had less than stellar k-12 education, managed to get into a decent Uni over seas and have done quite well for themselves. Mostly because they had parents instilling strong work ethic, etc etc.

Sure and there are poor blacks that have pulled themselves out of the urban slums in the US by their bootstraps too. I'm talking about giving our kids - who are more likely to be ordinary humans rather than relying on them to be super-special no matter what we'd like to think - the best possible odds of succeeding in the ever-more-ruthless competitive global world.

WRT the zip code issue, obviously you choose where to live based on the quality of the school district.

I'm not talking about making a living as a teacher stateside, that's a whole other can of worms. I'm talking about getting your kids a good education - far better than they'd get for half a million apiece tuition here in Thailand - and fortunately there are many many places back home where you can get that for free even if you're waiting tables.

Plus all the "soft skills" and character traits that are better in farang culture than here. Just have to dodge high-crime locations, and the "sex and drugs and rock 'n roll" aspects of popular culture - but that's more of a parenting issue than formal education.