thai students rejected from US Unis' for cheating and lieing

[3NUMBAS]

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/02/17/higher-education-american-university-rejects-quarter-thai-students-applications

quote

When applying to universities that look for more than scores from multiple-choice tests, some Thai students have gone so far padding their applications that at least one Western university now regards all of them with suspicion.

During the 2013 application season, Daniel Grayson, an admissions official at Tufts University in Massachusetts, reveals he had to throw out a quarter of all applications from Thai students who were suspected of cheating or just making up wonderful stories to impress screeners.

unquote

[TerryLH]

Just the one university?

[namdocmai]

Do they also have to do an english language test for applying to an american university?

I know some Thai students that want to go study in the usa but they barely can speak english. I also know some who graduated in the USA and still barely can speak english.

[HeijoshinCool]

When I taught here, the director and head teacher (English Dept) told me I must allow cheating otherwise most of the students would not pass.

If you want to understand a society/culture, spend a year or two teaching in its schools. It all starts there.

[benalibina]

Do they also have to do an english language test for applying to an american university?

I know some Thai students that want to go study in the usa but they barely can speak english. I also know some who graduated in the USA and still barely can speak english.

But he must be able to speak Spanish at least, right ?

[geriatrickid]

Do they also have to do an english language test for applying to an american university?

I know some Thai students that want to go study in the usa but they barely can speak english. I also know some who graduated in the USA and still barely can speak english.

But he must be able to speak Spanish at least, right ?

Many graduate programs require a proficiency in a 2nd language. As Spanish is the most important regional languages in the Americas (after the Brazilian dialect of Portuguese), it makes sense to know Spanish.

Tufts is one of the better US universities and is renowned for its veterinary, medical, dental and bioengineering faculties. I would expect that one of the world's top universities would be careful with its admissions. There are legitimate ways to address a deficiency in language skills via the foreign students and affirmative action admission policies, i.e. there is no need to cheat.

[Jingthing]

Do they also have to do an english language test for applying to an american university?

I know some Thai students that want to go study in the usa but they barely can speak english. I also know some who graduated in the USA and still barely can speak english.

Including one very famous one!

[moe666]

Did they mention how many US kids were rejected for padding their resume.

[namdocmai]

Do they also have to do an english language test for applying to an american university?

I know some Thai students that want to go study in the usa but they barely can speak english. I also know some who graduated in the USA and still barely can speak english.

Including one very famous one!

I heard that famouse one went to the Kentucky Fried Chicken University

At least she can speak english although it is pretty bad. The ones that i know and graduated in the USA can't even speak 1 sentence to me properly and i really have no idea what they are trying to say.

In my homecountry the big university's also teach in english and there the students can speak it pretty well. So what goes wrong with the Thai students in the USA? I guess they don't mix with the native American students but that's just a guess. Then i wonder why they don't mix, are they to shy to make friends with the natives or is their cultural background to different to mix? I also know some Thai students been in the USA that speak fluent english, even better then me. Mainly the girls do speak better then the boys.

[h90]

Do they also have to do an english language test for applying to an american university?

I know some Thai students that want to go study in the usa but they barely can speak english. I also know some who graduated in the USA and still barely can speak english.

Including one very famous one!

I heard that famouse one went to the Kentucky Fried Chicken University

At least she can speak english although it is pretty bad. The ones that i know and graduated in the USA can't even speak 1 sentence to me properly and i really have no idea what they are trying to say.

In my homecountry the big university's also teach in english and there the students can speak it pretty well. So what goes wrong with the Thai students in the USA? I guess they don't mix with the native American students but that's just a guess. Then i wonder why they don't mix, are they to shy to make friends with the natives or is their cultural background to different to mix? I also know some Thai students been in the USA that speak fluent english, even better then me. Mainly the girls do speak better then the boys.

If you can't speak English , you shouldn't be able to pass any real university. All the scientific work is in English or translated to English....nothing beside a few famous things is translated to Thai, German, or Japanese.

Most important is to understand written text......

[sam sen]

hard to believe

[Tywais]

Do they also have to do an english language test for applying to an american university?

Many require a TOEFL or equivalent formal testing but not just the US. I often have to sign off on a student's English language skills that are going overseas for continuation of their PhD or Masters work.

[MrWorldwide]

Wait - they're throwing people out of universities simply because they couldn't spell the word 'lying' ? Poor devils ....

http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/articles/article/992333/8992.htm

[wym]

There are thousands of tertiary institutions in the US that aren't very demanding, neither to get into nor to graduate.

If you have the money to pay for papers to be written for you, join study groups that collate lecture notes etc you can get just about any type of degree you like without really learning much.

Just the top say 20% quality ones that actually care about education, most are just churning them out, and foreigners paying top dollar help subsidize the locals.

[NancyL]

There's a big difference between being able to carry on a conversation fluently in a language and having knowledge of the language necessary for academic success.

Before we married, my husband and I were grad students together in a engineering dept of a major U.S. university. A another grad student from Taiwan was part of our group. His spoken English was really bad, but we soon learned his reading and writing skills in English were great and (good for us, his ability to read German was much better than ours -- and he was willing to help us with our research). He was very shy but in time became our best friend and a real asset. The professors and staff assumed he didn't understand English and talked about all sorts of stuff when he was in the lab -- stuff they'd never say in front of us. He was a great spy!

They test more than just someone's ability to carry on a conversation in English when they assess English-language ability for academic success.

Edited February 18, 2014 by NancyL

[MrWorldwide]

I thought the internship program in the US was designed to sort the (college) wheat from the chaff ? That, or get people to work for you for nothing or close to it

One of the 'Wall St Traders' series shows people who have to work as waiters to support themselves while they try to get started in the trading world - little wonder that the people who do make it are so completely obsessed with money.

[dao16]

Well, they have to have a TOEFL iBT score or IELTS in some other places. Can't really cheat on that test easily as it is run by a separate company that pays attention to security (it's not just like asking a professor to sign off for you or something). As for overselling themselves and lying, I wouldn't doubt it. I had the same problem with some students from other countries in Asia. Of course, American kids do that, too. There is a lot of competition for a place like Tufts. It is far from a diploma mill, as some have suggested, and the people who evaluate applications have seen it all.

[Somtamnication]

I love the elephant motion detector thingy. Classic!!!

[namdocmai]

So the main focus is mainly on reading/writing english instead of speaking. That declares why the Thai barely can speak english after graduating in the USA.

But after graduating they have to work in an international environment and then it will be a problem if they can't speak proper english (i guess).

Also i read that many foreigners make a good living out of correcting thesis written in english by foreign students. So how will they be ever be good in their future jobs if they always need an english native to help them writing a report?

I have some Thai family-members who are proffessors in chirugy and visit seminars all over the world but i can't speak english with them. That's what is raising my eyebrows. They also cannot understand my english well and i speak pretty much Queen Elisabeth english which is hammered into my brains.

I never was a good student in english language but when i started travelling and had nobody around me to count on i had no other choice then try it. I am happy with that though because i learned a lot from it by shame and error. I can speak 4 languages now and a little thai so maybe that declares why my english is not perfect.

[JusMe]

I've been trying to get a copy of someone's master's degree i criminology for quite a long time. I'm curious about how strong the English is in it, considering the man can't put three words together coherently.

[Kitsune]

This university is showing lack of cultural adaptation and has evidently never been on ThaiVisa to learn its lesson .

If the students lie and cheat, it is to demonstrate their Thainess.

Don't they know it's a cultural way of life in Thailand ?

Poor Thai youngsters that are going to be deprived to an education just because they respect their culture.

It's so unfair.

[Robininbkk]

This university is showing lack of cultural adaptation and has evidently never been on ThaiVisa to learn its lesson .

If the students lie and cheat, it is to demonstrate their Thainess.

Don't they know it's a cultural way of life in Thailand ?

Poor Thai youngsters that are going to be deprived to an education just because they respect their culture.

It's so unfair.

This university just had a higher standard for the amount of bribery money (from the Thai student's parents) and did not accept the amount they offered. Or, they just have some righteous morals and principles, which are conflicting with the ''Thai morals and principles. I guess it was the latter.

[wym]

There is a lot of competition for a place like Tufts. It is far from a diploma mill, as some have suggested, and the people who evaluate applications have seen it all.

Not me, it's ranked at #28 in the US.

Out of 4,000+ up to 8000 depending how you count.

I actually got in there myself but went to another place better for political-economic philosophy.

[dao16]

There is a lot of competition for a place like Tufts. It is far from a diploma mill, as some have suggested, and the people who evaluate applications have seen it all.

Not me, it's ranked at #28 in the US.

Out of 4,000+ up to 8000 depending how you count.

I actually got in there myself but went to another place better for political-economic philosophy.

Not sure what you are referencing when you say "Not me." I was just pointing out that it isn't KFC university as someone said. I didn't go to Tufts as I got in somewhere else as well, but I know some people who did....they aren't passing out diplomas or even granting entrance to just anyone. That was my only point.

[a99az]

Do they also have to do an english language test for applying to an american university?

I know some Thai students that want to go study in the usa but they barely can speak english. I also know some who graduated in the USA and still barely can speak english.

There are many who have supposedly graduated US universities that are unable to string a sentence together in English, and there not Thai!

[namdocmai]

The joke about the KFC university in Kentucky USA came from the Thai around me. I had never heard about any university in Kentucky before but from now on i will always remember this person and her "english" as an example for students from that University. So i would never send my kids there.

This is an example of how it can also ruin the name of a (maybe higly recommended) university abroad. University's should make sure the graduated students can speak proper english to avoid situations like this.

[dao16]

The joke about the KFC university in Kentucky USA came from the Thai around me. I had never heard about any university in Kentucky before but from now on i will always remember this person and her "english" as an example for students from that University. So i would never send my kids there.

This is an example of how it can also ruin the name of a (maybe higly recommended) university abroad. University's should make sure the graduated students can speak proper english to avoid situations like this.

Yes, I get that. Never heard of the university where she-whom-cannot-be-named attended before coming to Thailand. Haven't looked into that place, but in theory she would have to pass the TOEFL, which is not so easy and I know many foreigners have trouble getting a perfect score. It covers speaking as well, but with good coaching they can mash together a score. Of course, a lot of Asian students do not mix with people of other nationalities, let alone the locals. Literally, the Chinese are by themselves, Koreans by themselves, Japanese by themselves, and so on.

That said, I knew people from other continents whose spoken English wasn't great, but they could write insightful essays in very good English (we had to peer review, so I actually read their writing). So, they actually may be able to function academically in English, if not speaking (bad, but...).

It reminds me of a friend I had in another part of Asia who showed me his book on IT (the guy is a specialist in IT....very well-known in those circles). His speaking was horrible, but he had written a massive, comprehensive book on IT. After hanging out with me for 6 months and me pushing him to speak with my foreign friends, he could speak....it was more about confidence than anything, as the grammar and words were already in his head. I assume that is the deal with many Thais as well, though not all.

Edited February 18, 2014 by dao16

[Basil B]

"When applying to universities that look for more than scores from multiple-choice tests, some Thai students have gone so far padding their applications that at least one Western university now regards all of them with suspicion"

Wounder if one of them Universities is "Kentucky State University"?

Edit:

Whoops, should have read all the posts before posting, there are a lot of like minded people who beet me to this one...

Edited February 18, 2014 by Basil B

[desertrat]

There are many cultures where cheating in all forms is admired, and seen as being smart. I am particularly intolerant of the soccer "simulators",

Why is it not called cheating.?

More to the point a friend in the USA showed me a letter from his son who was enrolled (First Year) at Indianapolis University. It was nearly incomprehensible in spelling, grammar and structure. As an amateur codebreaker I thought was being given something from a modified one ttime pad.

He first language was English.

Similar entrance qualifications for admission to a Draughtsman's Institute. I knew of, a sharp pencil and 5 Pounds..?

Edited February 18, 2014 by desertrat

[lomatopo]

How many Thais applied to Tufts? Sixteen? Four fudged. Doesn't seem like a huge story?