Thai Mentality towards Tragedy

[sustento]

The Thai Smiles List!

According to Working With The Thais: A Guide to Managing in Thailand, the ‘top 13’ identified Thai Smilesare:

1. Yim thang nam taa: The “I’m so happy I’m crying” smile.

2. Yim thak thaai: The “polite” smile for someone you barely know.

3. Yim cheun chom: The “I admire you” smile.

4. Fuen Yim: The stiff smile, also known as the “I should laugh at the joke though it’s not funny” Smile.

5. Yim mee lessanai: The smile which masks something wicked in your mind.

6. Yim yaw: The teasing, or “I told you so” smile.

7. Yim yae-yae: The “I know things look pretty bad but there’s no point in crying over spilt milk” smile.

8. Yim sao: The sad smile.

9. Yim haeng: The dry smile, also known as the “I know I owe you the money but I don’t have it” smile.

10. Yim thak thaan: The “I disagree with you” smile, also known as the “You can go ahead and propose it but your idea’s no good” smile.

11. Yim cheua-cheuan: The “I am the winner” smile, the smile given to a losing competitor.

12. Yim soo: “smiling in the face of an impossible struggle” smile.

13. Yim mai awk: The “I’m trying to smile but can’t” smile.

[bermondburi]

Not exactly the same but when we were flooded in the mega flood a few years back it was quite interesting for me to see how people dealt with what was without doubt a tragedy. Many people lost a lot of stuff and some everything

Anyway,walking through the water for hours it was good to see people happy. A lot of people taking pictures of each other etc. We got some with some strangers from the same moobahn and everyone was smiling.

A lot of laughing and joking going on.

My point is that if that was in the UK people would be crying and hysterical and it wasn't like that at all.

Sent from my HUAWEI P6-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mick220675]

On average i go to 8 to 10 funerals every year in Thailand i have only ever seen two people cry. one were a young girl died and one were a solder was blown up. Most Thais keep there sorrow to them selves, they just get pissed. Life goes on with you or with out you. It is difficult to understand many things happening hear.

[Somsrisonphimai]

Thais smile for more than being just happy. My wife smiles when I get another beer and she's really p'd off.

The Land of smiles is The Land of Lies...the greater the smile, the larger the lie. Figured this one out before learning any of the language. Never lose Face as long as you can get away with it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

In the west, they don't lie they just don't tell you.

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[bermondburi]

Not exactly the same but when we were flooded in the mega flood a few years back it was quite interesting for me to see how people dealt with what was without doubt a tragedy. Many people lost a lot of stuff and some everything

Anyway,walking through the water for hours it was good to see people happy. A lot of people taking pictures of each other etc. We got some with some strangers from the same moobahn and everyone was smiling.

A lot of laughing and joking going on.

My point is that if that was in the UK people would be crying and hysterical and it wasn't like that at all.

Sent from my HUAWEI P6-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

This was random strangers who were quite happy considering the circumstances.

My wife and son outside our front door, also in good spirits.

I quite like it really. Seeing how I'm in Saudi Arabia these days I miss these happy go lucky carefree Thai people. You never appreciate what you have until you don't see it every day.

Not sure about the women in the OP's post though. Sounds a bit like a self-obsessed, not bothered about anyone outside of her circle kind of person.

I'm alright Jack!

[benalibina]

Thais smile for more than being just happy. My wife smiles when I get another beer and she's really p'd off.

The Land of smiles is The Land of Lies...the greater the smile, the larger the lie. Figured this one out before learning any of the language. Never lose Face as long as you can get away with it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

In the west, they don't lie they just don't tell you.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Sometimes they follow the west...so to speak ....in thailand...

[wym]

I haven't read all the responses, but I think the first answer you got

"because it wasn't a member of her own family"

nailed it the first time. Note also to Thais the word "serious" means depressed, unnecessarily unhappy.

And she's completely right - why should we get upset about bad things happening to people we don't know?

Such tragedies are happening all the time, and the news media makes money broadcasting every little event out to everyone.

Are we supposed to walk around in mourning every minute of our lives?

Does doing so help the victims?

Life is short and brutish, whatever we can do to be happy and peaceful in our own lives, help those immediately around us as we can, that's enough.

If you're personally affected by the news, best thing to do is avoid watching it. Find sources that focus on things you need to know, don't dwell on the tragedies "out there" in the world, believe me as you get older you'll have enough in your own life to worry about.

[HeavyDrinker]

Thais smile for more than being just happy. My wife smiles when I get another beer and she's really p'd off.

The Land of smiles is The Land of Lies...the greater the smile, the larger the lie. Figured this one out before learning any of the language. Never lose Face as long as you can get away with it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

In the west, they don't lie they just don't tell you.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

They lie all the time only our entire culture, belief system isn't built on them.....

[Somsrisonphimai]

Thais smile for more than being just happy. My wife smiles when I get another beer and she's really p'd off.

The Land of smiles is The Land of Lies...the greater the smile, the larger the lie. Figured this one out before learning any of the language. Never lose Face as long as you can get away with it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

In the west, they don't lie they just don't tell you.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

They lie all the time only our entire culture, belief system isn't built on them.....

Don't ask don't tell.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited February 24, 2014 by Somsrisonphimai

[andyg75]

Not exactly the same but when we were flooded in the mega flood a few years back it was quite interesting for me to see how people dealt with what was without doubt a tragedy. Many people lost a lot of stuff and some everything

Anyway,walking through the water for hours it was good to see people happy. A lot of people taking pictures of each other etc. We got some with some strangers from the same moobahn and everyone was smiling.

A lot of laughing and joking going on.

My point is that if that was in the UK people would be crying and hysterical and it wasn't like that at all.

Sent from my HUAWEI P6-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile Parts of the

Parts of the south of England have been flooded since Christmas eve especialy Somerset and is still underwater now ,people have lost everything and its been on the news every day,and I,ve not seen any one going hysterical,so I dont know where you get the hysterical bit from.

[olddoc]

A friend of my wife was devastated by the recent terrorist killings of children.

The woman was reduced to tears and said to me "I do not understand what is happening to my Thailand".

For those who have taken pleasure in posting banal comment regarding Thai people I have this to say

Remember, Thais are human beings , they experience the same grief, sadness and despair in response to tragic occurrences as any other member of the human race.

To suggest anything else is disingenuous .

[bermondburi]

Not exactly the same but when we were flooded in the mega flood a few years back it was quite interesting for me to see how people dealt with what was without doubt a tragedy. Many people lost a lot of stuff and some everything

Anyway,walking through the water for hours it was good to see people happy. A lot of people taking pictures of each other etc. We got some with some strangers from the same moobahn and everyone was smiling.

A lot of laughing and joking going on.

My point is that if that was in the UK people would be crying and hysterical and it wasn't like that at all.

Sent from my HUAWEI P6-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile Parts of the

Parts of the south of England have been flooded since Christmas eve especialy Somerset and is still underwater now ,people have lost everything and its been on the news every day,and I,ve not seen any one going hysterical,so I dont know where you get the hysterical bit from.

The recent floods in the UK haven't exactly been on the same scale though have they. Guaranteed, if flooding was on the same scale as happened in BKK there would be hysterical people. Imagine how helpless everyone would have been as the army, police etc wouldn't have been able to do anything, as millions lost everything. Just looking at the maps of the flooding in Somerset, you can see that it is on a very minor scale in comparison.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-26157538

The affected people do have my sympathy though.

[kimbathewhitelion]

Thais smile for more than being just happy. My wife smiles when I get another beer and she's really p'd off.

The Land of smiles is The Land of Lies...the greater the smile, the larger the lie. Figured this one out before learning any of the language. Never lose Face as long as you can get away with it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

In the west, they don't lie they just don't tell you.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

you mean they do lie but don't leave a hint of said lie, which of course is true of all large democratic nations. Though question of that more so pertains to many posts - what is the West, would that be anywhere west of Thailand?

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[bina]

sevaral answers were probably correct, but also, why would u text a message to someone that u work with, unless u are close to her, why shoudl she care about u commiserating in her political thoughts? she probably just answerd with a smiley to say 'i got yoru message' ... and she didnt really know what u wanted her to respond with. what could she have responded with? start discussing her political beliefs in an sms?

2/ even during the tsunami, and also here, i find thais dont like to discuss 'bad' things. a friend of a friend of my husband's was killed in an agricultural accident so people discussed it a bit, and the close friends went off somewhere quiet to 'decompress' everyone else went about their business right next to the greenhouse where he got strangled (by plant support wire ).

a son of someone on our kibbutz was blown up in the army several years ago, and that someone's brother worked with the thais in the orchards, and they themselves knew the boy. we announced it, we went to the funeral, i tried discussing it a bit with them. no go. i got embarrassed smiles and the subject was switched.

i met with some thais that saw a friend get blown up by a GRAD missile near gaza; they were outwardly upset for a day, and then went back to work. outwardly they seemed the same. but from gossip, i learned that they were quite traumatized but just dont show any signs, that we , here are used to (us being israelis who are very very vocal and display emotions OTT.).

Ive tried to engage my (thai) husband in political discussions, he says 'mai son jai' (i dont pay attention). in other words, its not directly affecting him, his family here or there, so why bother.

[andyg75]

Not exactly the same but when we were flooded in the mega flood a few years back it was quite interesting for me to see how people dealt with what was without doubt a tragedy. Many people lost a lot of stuff and some everything

Anyway,walking through the water for hours it was good to see people happy. A lot of people taking pictures of each other etc. We got some with some strangers from the same moobahn and everyone was smiling.

A lot of laughing and joking going on.

My point is that if that was in the UK people would be crying and hysterical and it wasn't like that at all.

Sent from my HUAWEI P6-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile Parts of the

Parts of the south of England have been flooded since Christmas eve especialy Somerset and is still underwater now ,people have lost everything and its been on the news every day,and I,ve not seen any one going hysterical,so I dont know where you get the hysterical bit from.

The recent floods in the UK haven't exactly been on the same scale though have they. Guaranteed, if flooding was on the same scale as happened in BKK there would be hysterical people. Imagine how helpless everyone would have been as the army, police etc wouldn't have been able to do anything, as millions lost everything. Just looking at the maps of the flooding in Somerset, you can see that it is on a very minor scale in comparison.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-26157538

The affected people do have my sympathy though.

I dont think area has anything to do with it,even if Devon and Cornwall had be included I still dont think people would have been hysterical. Looking at your avatar i thought you was from SE London,but if so you would have known better.

[Kitsune]

Shocking video of Red Shirts cheering at the news of the savage attack in Trat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdblkvJ1eI0&feature=youtu.be …

[Thai at Heart]

Thais can be quite insensitive and blunt when it comes to tragic death but in this case the woman just sounds like a self obsessed idiot. It doesn't affect her life directly so she couldn't care any less.

Personally my girlfriend was outraged when she heard about the deaths as were most normal civilized people.

The Thai friends I have who are outraged are mostly embarrassed for the country's reputation, Thai society/culture in general, and for their own bleak prospects of a peaceful life in the near or far future--not necessarily for the specific victims in question.

But, when pushed to admit it, will never explain their embarrassment to a farang.

[Suradit69]

When she grows up and has some kids of her own her view might change..

How you could possibly know anything about her view of things?

Her reactions were not to the death of two children but to some unpopular foreign co-worker who appeared to be trying to pump her for some negative comments about the situation in Thailand.

I suppose if some Thai male was working in farang land, earning more than the locals and started messaging a woman in his office about some sensitive issue that was divisive in the community that he'd probably get a visit from a company HR officer asking why he was harassing her or trying to stir up emotions about something she didn't want to talk to him about.

Her apparent indifference and smiles were her polite attempt to tell him to stop pestering her about something she was uncomfortable talking about with him. She was diplomatically telling him to f__ off.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Suradit69

[Suradit69]

P.S. I find that most Thais do not like to discuss Thai politics/social issues with foreigners and that it is best not to initiate discussions of these. If a Thai initiates the discussion with you, fine, otherwise I find it best to steer clear of these topics. This has always been the case (I'm here >20 years) but is most especially true in the current very tense and polarized climate. Even when you think you are expressing a sentiment the persona will agree with, you may unwittingly cause offense. People are unusually on edge.

Also there is the loss of face issue. These events directly contradict many deeply cherished Thai beliefs about themselves and their country and thus from a Thai point of view the fact that there is such internal discord -- violent at that -- is an enormous loss of face for Thailand. Thai etiquette requires that potential losses of face be ignored and not referred to. For a foreigner to reference them may be especially embarrassing.

"P.S. I find that most Thais do not like to discuss Thai politics/social issues with foreigners"

I quite agree. But to some extent the same thing is true for people in any country. Can you imagine a foreign office worker trying to get a reaction out of people in the US following the killing of children in Newton? Of course people were shocked and outraged, but the issue was also tied to the political issue of gun control which was something that is very divisive amongst Americans. If some foreigner appeared overly eager to get a reaction from someone he could be ignored or put off ... or he could get a very nasty reaction as well.

The NRA’s simplistic response to Newtown: ‘Good guy with a gun’

By Editorial Board,

AFTER THE NEWTOWN, Conn., massacre, the National Rifle Association promised to “offer meaningful contributions to make sure this never happens again.” Friday, the gun owners and manufacturers lobby called for stationing an armed guard in every school in the country. “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” said the organization’s executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre. “Would you rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away or from a minute away?”

[Suradit69]

P.S. I find that most Thais do not like to discuss Thai politics/social issues with foreigners and that it is best not to initiate discussions of these. If a Thai initiates the discussion with you, fine, otherwise I find it best to steer clear of these topics. This has always been the case (I'm here >20 years) but is most especially true in the current very tense and polarized climate. Even when you think you are expressing a sentiment the persona will agree with, you may unwittingly cause offense. People are unusually on edge.

Also there is the loss of face issue. These events directly contradict many deeply cherished Thai beliefs about themselves and their country and thus from a Thai point of view the fact that there is such internal discord -- violent at that -- is an enormous loss of face for Thailand. Thai etiquette requires that potential losses of face be ignored and not referred to. For a foreigner to reference them may be especially embarrassing.

"P.S. I find that most Thais do not like to discuss Thai politics/social issues with foreigners"

I quite agree. But to some extent the same thing is true for people in any country. Can you imagine a foreign office worker trying to get a reaction out of people in the US following the killing of children in Newton? Of course people were shocked and outraged, but the issue was also tied to the political matter of gun control which is something that is very divisive amongst Americans. If some foreigner appeared overly eager to get a prod someone about it all, he could be ignored or put off ... or he could get a very nasty response as well. It would have nothing to do with the tragedy directly, but it would be a reaction to someone "not of the community" getting intrusive.

And as far as bizarre reactions to tragedy go, you may recall some people responded by alleging that the whole thing was staged or fabricated to win support for gun control!

The NRA’s simplistic response to Newtown: ‘Good guy with a gun’

By Editorial Board,

AFTER THE NEWTOWN, Conn., massacre, the National Rifle Association promised to “offer meaningful contributions to make sure this never happens again.” Friday, the gun owners and manufacturers lobby called for stationing an armed guard in every school in the country. “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” said the organization’s executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre. “Would you rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away or from a minute away?”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-nras-simplistic-response-to-newtown-good-guy-with-a-gun/2012/12/21/d22ccfe0-4bbc-11e2-9a42-d1ce6d0ed278_story.html

And I might add, I have a Thai friend whose wife just left him, taking their daughter and the dog. He's devastated and hoping to get his family back together. He told me some nights he sits at home alone crying. But sometimes when he talks about it all, he does giggle. It has nothing to do with humor. It's a stressful reaction.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Suradit69

[alex8912]

After reading your post a second time the co worker gave you a very honest reply "I'm not seriously stressed out about it" which really made me wonder what your exact text was?? Like even extremely fluent/ native speakers always misunderstand texts more than real conversation maybe your text came off as what a big drama queen you are and her response was spot on! You also admit to working less and getting paid more. In what country would that make you mister popular in the office? In mine it would make you for better words not very popular at all.

[unanimosity]

I think asking her would give you the answer you seek, you'll get nothing here but Thai bashing, most here don't even live in Thailand.

Ask Her !!!!

Fair enough. But I did ask her, and that's when I got the "I'm not serious about this" reaction. I've found it's best not to push Thais for an answer when they're faced with a question they seemingly don't want to answer.

This is why Thais say foreigners are too complicated. Why would you badger her to either agree with you or pat you on the back for your concern? Why not, if for some reason you must express feelings, express them in a statement without questioning the Thai? Thais can see when they are being patronized. They understand foreign mindsets whereas foreigners understand very little about the core, especially interrelationship, mindsets of Thais.

Your first clue should have been that supporting Suthep, she is a mindless follower and has no convictions of her own.

[laobali]

The Thai Smiles List!

According to Working With The Thais: A Guide to Managing in Thailand, the ‘top 13’ identified Thai Smilesare:

1. Yim thang nam taa: The “I’m so happy I’m crying” smile.

2. Yim thak thaai: The “polite” smile for someone you barely know.

3. Yim cheun chom: The “I admire you” smile.

4. Fuen Yim: The stiff smile, also known as the “I should laugh at the joke though it’s not funny” Smile.

5. Yim mee lessanai: The smile which masks something wicked in your mind.

6. Yim yaw: The teasing, or “I told you so” smile.

7. Yim yae-yae: The “I know things look pretty bad but there’s no point in crying over spilt milk” smile.

8. Yim sao: The sad smile.

9. Yim haeng: The dry smile, also known as the “I know I owe you the money but I don’t have it” smile.

10. Yim thak thaan: The “I disagree with you” smile, also known as the “You can go ahead and propose it but your idea’s no good” smile.

11. Yim cheua-cheuan: The “I am the winner” smile, the smile given to a losing competitor.

12. Yim soo: “smiling in the face of an impossible struggle” smile.

13. Yim mai awk: The “I’m trying to smile but can’t” smile.

That's pretty frightening, especially as there are Thai expressions to describe all these types (and more apparently).

I don't think I can face a 'Thai smile' again without going through the list and wondering.

Perhaps we should carry a copy (with the Thai characters) and ask which one he or she is using!

Does this apply ONLY to Thai and no other Asian culture?

Edited February 25, 2014 by laobali

[sam sen]

i've raised the high road death toll every songkran with many thai's and the vast majority response is that its 'sanook' and therefore somehow acceptable.

with so many dying every year it puzzles me why there isnt lobbying from the friends and families of those needlessly killed to promote road safety during the holiday.

[marko kok prong]

I think in general kon thai do not like discussing issues which are negative or contentious, i know my wife does not like talking about the current political situation,at least with me,this maybe why the girl smiled,to cover up in a situation she possibly felt uncomfortable discussing,i can understand a bit of thai and really i never here my wife and her friends talk about politics,or these tragic deaths,it is a situation which they simply find uncomfortable to discuss and maybe someone could lose face,so it is avoided, they are not great debaters of anything much i find,most talk is gossip,or sanuk,only my opinion of course, but Eldragon if i where you i would not let it worry you.

[silent]

I think asking her would give you the answer you seek, you'll get nothing here but Thai bashing, most here don't even live in Thailand.

Ask Her !!!!

Fair enough. But I did ask her, and that's when I got the "I'm not serious about this" reaction. I've found it's best not to push Thais for an answer when they're faced with a question they seemingly don't want to answer.

For what it's worth, the advice that I've been given from my devout Buddhist spouse on many occasions when faced with similar dilemmas and dimensias might help enlighten. Somehow it seems that meditation is the answer to overcoming what seems like psychopathy. Truthfully though, I've tried it and it hasn't really helped my opinion, but who knows. Maybe it's something like when in Rome act like Nero and learn to play a fiddle.

[Razer64]

I am atheist. So I am screwed pretty much anywhere I go in the world. That being said, religion poisons everything, minds in particular, matter of fact I have been married to a Thai and have lived here off and on for twelve years. I find the Thai people (and Asian people in general) incredibly superstitious, and more often than not incredibly cruel. I would imagine your friend is thanking Buddha the tragedy didn't happen to her or her family. Perhaps even thinking that it is the will of god, so be it. And of course, we all know what a murdering, bloody, inhuman monster god is. No matter which god you care to name. They're all the same to me.

My significant other, for example, is outraged at the parents of the dead children and curses them for even having them anywhere near the crowds, violence, and nonsensical stupidity. She blames the parents 100%. I agree with her. Some things are just common sense. You don't walk your children through a potential war zone and demand your right to be where you like and to do what you like. Get in the fight or get you and yours to safety and stay there. Use your brains.

[lucifer666]

My missus was really saddened to read about those deaths. So i guess it's not a general Thai mentality, maybe your co-worker is just a self centred excuse for a human.

[nicolas18]

OP:

I don't know where you're originally from, but let's imagine the following scenario:

You're working in the office in your home country days after a politically-motivated terrorist act occurred and you then receive an email from a (presumably) well-meaning Japanese colleague who has been in the country for a couple of months or maybe years and who is offering his own ideas on how to fix your own country.

Do you:

A ) Start a long argument which you know will be pointless?

B ) Reply with a smiley face to placate the well-meaning idiot?

Edited February 25, 2014 by nicolas18

[verywierd]

Inflicting you emotions on others is considered incredibly bad taste, and perhaps hypocrisy in most of Asia. So is demanding that someone else display their emotions to you. Emotions are personal things, significant things.

Their attitude is, if I sobbed and wailed upon hearing of the death of a stranger, then what value are my tears when my loved ones die? The degree of sadness is obviously incomparable, and the display of emotion should be equally scaled. In fact, most of the Asians I know would wonder if there was something wrong with a person who broke into tears every time he or she heard of something bad happening to a distant third party. You cannot honestly mourn everything.

Saying something to the effect that "I'm so glad it didn't happen to someone I know or love" or "Better them than us" is a perfectly logical social response if asked.