A new day in Ukraine: Political uncertainty sweeps divided nation

[Basil B]

The Russian military has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 03:00 GMT to surrender or face an assault, Ukrainian defence sources have said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26424738

Is this not a declaration of war???

[nong38]

According to a report on the BBC News website the Russians have given the Ukrainen Military until 0300 GMT to stand down, well you can guess the rest, meanwhile stock markets across the world go down and the rouble falls to a new low against the dollar, the euro etc. These are not good times, Putin is an old fashioned bully who thinks he can get away with this behaviour, he can the Russian people will suffer for his choices, He has been a problem, the west could have traeted him better but we are we are, he still thinks he is super power, he seems to have some backing from the Chinese which will make him bolder but what can the west do? Nato are not reliable, the carriers can not get near. where are we heading?

This could get out of control very quickly, the Russians could cut the gas supplies to the EU but the financial clout of the west might just be the answer with the rouble falling.

It is likely that with the Russian fleet based in Sevasabol that that might be lost the big question is where is the red line Barack, you did 'F' all in Syria, your credibilty is on the line and the Western world I might add.

[whoisyourdaddy]

Aside from Syria, the Mid East is very much tilted toward the US. What can Russia offer the Mid East that they cannot get from the US? Pretty much nothing.

The fact is, the US is on its way to energy independence, doubly so considering the keystone pipeline. Meanwhile, the Russian economy is imploding.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Anti American sentiment to start with?

[F430murci]

Okay, in typical Russian fashion . . . News channels in Russia now saying US withdrawing their consulates in Russia. Wife said everyone over there is in a panic attack.

love the "wife says"

Does she know EVERYONE over there?

For the record, my father is there, so is my half brother, his wife and her family and none of them seem worried or concerned even a little bit.

Russian market off by 13 percent in one day. 13 percent?!?!!! Ruble at new low. Yep. sure sounds like calmness an no worry or concern in Russia to me . . .

To put this in perspective, I think our biggest single day down swing in 2008 when the bubble burst was 7 1/2 percent.

You can post all the nice little happy, happy,joy, joy videos of propaganda rallies of a few all you want, but the fact remains that a 13% run on the market is good indication of panic, worry and a whole lot of concern. 58 billion lost in the equity market in a single day.

The sad part is that issues like these hurts Russians who can least afford it the most. Watch Russian interest rates now and see how high they have to go to offset currency. This is a bad situation for Russian people if not reversed quickly

Edited March 3, 2014 by F430murci

[F430murci]

According to a report on the BBC News website the Russians have given the Ukrainen Military until 0300 GMT to stand down, well you can guess the rest, meanwhile stock markets across the world go down and the rouble falls to a new low against the dollar, the euro etc. These are not good times, Putin is an old fashioned bully who thinks he can get away with this behaviour, he can the Russian people will suffer for his choices, He has been a problem, the west could have traeted him better but we are we are, he still thinks he is super power, he seems to have some backing from the Chinese which will make him bolder but what can the west do? Nato are not reliable, the carriers can not get near. where are we heading?

This could get out of control very quickly, the Russians could cut the gas supplies to the EU but the financial clout of the west might just be the answer with the rouble falling.

It is likely that with the Russian fleet based in Sevasabol that that might be lost the big question is where is the red line Barack, you did 'F' all in Syria, your credibilty is on the line and the Western world I might add.

Well, he can. At the end of the day, US will do nothing and he knows it. Why, US has to much to lose. We have it too good. Life is too easy and comfy for most here and we are not willing to rock that boat for anyone. Putin knows that. As much as I do not care for Obama now, no US President would do anything more to intervene here as the risk is not worth the benefit that could be gained as the result of any intervention so to speak. Sad situation and to quote my dear young hottie, but not too bright, 25 year old Ukrainian friend . . . "Whaaattt, Russian invade Ukraine. We're foocked!" Most intelligent comment about this entire situation I have read.

[3NUMBAS]

why dont the Cubans tell the yanks to get their ass out of Gitmo and stop using it as a getout for illegal detentions outside US soil?

The ruskies have a deal on Crimea till 2042 to use it as a base .

[Jingthing]

why dont the Cubans tell the yanks to get their ass out of Gitmo and stop using it as a getout for illegal detentions outside US soil?

The ruskies have a deal on Crimea till 2042 to use it as a base .

The USA hasn't invaded Cuba since the Bay of Pigs crisis in the early 1960s.

This is now.

This is Russia invading the Ukraine.

Yes the Gitmo rights exists. So what? Trying to change the topic are you?

[3NUMBAS]

let them Ruskies cut off the gas supplies to europe and let them all freeze haw haw ,they hold the trump card !

serves em right for not having a secondary supply .

the ruskies have a base in crimea all agreed with the ukrainians so tough luck .

[folium]

why dont the Cubans tell the yanks to get their ass out of Gitmo and stop using it as a getout for illegal detentions outside US soil?

The ruskies have a deal on Crimea till 2042 to use it as a base .

Irrelevant...

Russia forced through an extension of its Black Sea ports till 2042 with gas price carrots and "financial inducements" to Yuschenko's ministers (probably spent on expensive real estate in London, British private school fees and fattening their Swiss bank accounts).

That does not give Russia the right to invade the rest of the Crimea or any other part of Ukraine.

[folium]

Russia market and currency tanking so this may result in pressure being put in Putin to chill out. A lot of powerful Russian businessmen being impacted.

With a lot of new markets opening up, now that Russia is most likely not going obey any US or UN sanctions imposed on other countries.

Obey, <deleted> are you talking about? Obey has nothing to do with anything. That is a pride comment that ignores suffering and hardship of those in the cross hairs.

Putin is heading down a dangerous path perhaps that may only be averted by those with monetary clout and power inside Russia. Putin is saber rattling a bit like fat boy in NK likes to do and it seems as if no one in that region is very happy about this course of events. Wife's phone is blowing up with family and friends calling from region . . . Wife never out of bed this early. Does not sound as if anyone in region is happy with the current direction of events.

You can drum up as much noise as you like, you can beat yourself in the chest also as much as you like.

Russia was isolated from the West for decades, so the fear mongering of being isolated again is simply useless.

Iran, Syria, North Korea all have itchy fingers

China has very high ambitions,

The rest of Middle East is very Russian inclined.

Russia will not NOT be isolated and rest assured US will suffer the most in the current situation.

Something so many seem to fail to understand

Just because your wife is going mad, it does not automatically translate into "everyone" being unhappy or concerned.

And your charming comments just underline that Russia only exports 3 products.

Fossil fuels

Third rate military hardware

Intimidation

This pathetic little example of intimidation and bullying highlights the bruised little ego of Putin and his sad attempts to rewrite history. Whipping up nationalistic fervour serves the siloviki well as it helps disguises their rampant kleptocratic activities, impoverishing the nation to line their pockets. Russia faces economic turmoil as underinvestment in its oil/gas industry sees productions levels continue to slip. China won't play ball and import much oil and gas from Eastern Siberia, so Gazprom (handicapped by having to sell gas to Russian customers cheap, to keep the impoverished workers from turning on their lords and masters) needs to sell gas to Europe to pay the bills.

[Yahooka]

The situation in Ukraine is very uncertain and it`s not a surprise that the Russians will try to be active and secure they interests in the area.This will not escalate into a big international crisis.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Yahooka

[folium]

The situation in Ukraine is very uncertain and it`s not a surprise that the Russians will try to be active and secure they interests in the area.This will not escalate into a big international crisis.

"Russia try to...secure their interests in the area"....does that include the entirety of Ukraine? How about Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Kazakhstan etc and thus rebuild Putin's beloved empire?

"This will not escalate into a big international crisis".....Bit late.

I presume you have not read the news in the last 72 hours.

[whoisyourdaddy]

Okay, in typical Russian fashion . . . News channels in Russia now saying US withdrawing their consulates in Russia. Wife said everyone over there is in a panic attack.

love the "wife says"

Does she know EVERYONE over there?

For the record, my father is there, so is my half brother, his wife and her family and none of them seem worried or concerned even a little bit.

Russian market off by 13 percent in one day. 13 percent?!?!!! Ruble at new low. Yep. sure sounds like calmness an no worry or concern in Russia to me . . .

To put this in perspective, I think our biggest single day down swing in 2008 when the bubble burst was 7 1/2 percent.

You can post all the nice little happy, happy,joy, joy videos of propaganda rallies of a few all you want, but the fact remains that a 13% run on the market is good indication of panic, worry and a whole lot of concern. 58 billion lost in the equity market in a single day.

The sad part is that issues like these hurts Russians who can least afford it the most. Watch Russian interest rates now and see how high they have to go to offset currency. This is a bad situation for Russian people if not reversed quickly

How does your reply relate to my post ??

Yes market is down , so what????

I mean you really fail to understand Russia will be just fine without the West, especially the US of A.

The mighty US of A is going to be in deep bobo once Russia gives green light to all the itchy fingers.

Might be little too much to handle for US and rest assured EU would not be there to help.

Then you can see what happens to markets and currency

[whoisyourdaddy]

And your charming comments just underline that Russia only exports 3 products.

Fossil fuels

Third rate military hardware

Intimidation

This pathetic little example of intimidation and bullying highlights the bruised little ego of Putin and his sad attempts to rewrite history. Whipping up nationalistic fervour serves the siloviki well as it helps disguises their rampant kleptocratic activities, impoverishing the nation to line their pockets. Russia faces economic turmoil as underinvestment in its oil/gas industry sees productions levels continue to slip. China won't play ball and import much oil and gas from Eastern Siberia, so Gazprom (handicapped by having to sell gas to Russian customers cheap, to keep the impoverished workers from turning on their lords and masters) needs to sell gas to Europe to pay the bills.

More and more uninformed rubbish. Clearly you do not know much about Russia but will let you carry on regardless

Edited March 3, 2014 by whoisyourdaddy

[folium]

Okay, in typical Russian fashion . . . News channels in Russia now saying US withdrawing their consulates in Russia. Wife said everyone over there is in a panic attack.

love the "wife says"

Does she know EVERYONE over there?

For the record, my father is there, so is my half brother, his wife and her family and none of them seem worried or concerned even a little bit.

Russian market off by 13 percent in one day. 13 percent?!?!!! Ruble at new low. Yep. sure sounds like calmness an no worry or concern in Russia to me . . .

To put this in perspective, I think our biggest single day down swing in 2008 when the bubble burst was 7 1/2 percent.

You can post all the nice little happy, happy,joy, joy videos of propaganda rallies of a few all you want, but the fact remains that a 13% run on the market is good indication of panic, worry and a whole lot of concern. 58 billion lost in the equity market in a single day.

The sad part is that issues like these hurts Russians who can least afford it the most. Watch Russian interest rates now and see how high they have to go to offset currency. This is a bad situation for Russian people if not reversed quickly

How does your reply relate to my post ??

Yes market is down , so what????

I mean you really fail to understand Russia will be just fine without the West, especially the US of A.

The mighty US of A is going to be in deep bobo once Russia gives green light to all the itchy fingers.

Might be little too much to handle for US and rest assured EU would not be there to help.

Then you can see what happens to markets and currency

Russia failed in its bid to become the world's superpower 1945-91 as its economy failed to match the lofty ambitions of its Soviet masters. Now it's reduced to being a second rate spoiler, regional bully, and supplier to terrorists and pariah regimes. Welcome to the second division.

The invasion of Ukraine just serves to highlight Russia's weaknesses and insecurities.

[whoisyourdaddy]

You really need to face the reality and stop making up facts and history, it's becoming boring.

Please read up some history and not written by mighty US

Russia failed? At one stage ruble was worth US$2

Please enough with the nonsense

Russia is not the one with trillion dollars of debt

Russia is so weak that your president does nothing but talk

Edited March 3, 2014 by whoisyourdaddy

[Fasth]

The main problem is that most of russian so brainwashed so they totally agree with agression.
Even with internet. Even with the oportunity to travel another countries (there was no opportunity in USSR), read another medias...
They are ready to kill their twin-nation.
This russian generation is doomed.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Fasth

[folium]

You really need to face the reality and stop making up facts and history, it's becoming boring.

Please read up some history and not written by mighty US

Russia failed? At one stage ruble was worth US$2

Please enough with the nonsense

Russia is not the one with trillion dollars of debt

Russia is so weak that your president does nothing but talk

As an obvious scholar of history please enlighten us on your take on history. Would be nice if you actually responded to feedback rather than just continuing a dreary monologue.

Did the Soviet Union really not collapse in 1991? The Soviet troops I encountered in 1989, scattered in confusion and disarray across East Germany, were they really the victors of the Cold War, and the large complete section of the Berlin Wall (full height and 5metres across) we took home as a souvenir of another campaign victory was all an illusion and it really was the Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart (Antifaschistischer Schutzwall as labelled by the DDR stooges), and had achieved this objective magnificently.

What does Russia contribute to the world today apart from fossil fuels, 3rd rate hardware and intimidation?

Putin has that classic little man syndrome, shared with Adolf and Bonaparte, and desperately wants to leave his mark on the world but sadly for everyone else the siloviki only know how to operate via terror and intimidation. Classic cheap little bully.

[Jingthing]

You really need to face the reality and stop making up facts and history, it's becoming boring.

Please read up some history and not written by mighty US

Russia failed? At one stage ruble was worth US$2

Please enough with the nonsense

Russia is not the one with trillion dollars of debt

Russia is so weak that your president does nothing but talk

No. Russia really is weak. But they are still dangerous. That Putin character is turning out even worse than was already obvious. Sorry for Russians to be stuck with such a dictator, but heck, they like him, that's even sadder:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-putins-error-in-ukraine-is-the-kind-that-leads-to-catastrophe/2014/03/02/d376603e-a249-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html

The Russian leader’s nostalgia for the past was on display at the Sochi Olympics. AsDavid Remnick wrote last week in the New Yorker, Putin regards the fall of the Soviet Union as a “tragic error,” and the Olympics celebrated his vision that a strong Russia is back. That attitude led Putin to whatSecretary of State John Kerry described on Sunday as a “brazen act of aggression” and a “violation of international obligations.”

Kerry called on Putin to “undo this act of invasion.” The Russian leader would save himself immense grief by following Kerry’s advice, but that seems unlikely. His mistake in Sevastopol may lead to others elsewhere, though hopefully Putin will avoid reckless actions. But the more Putin seeks to assert Russia’s strength, he will actually underline its weakness.

[folium]

You really need to face the reality and stop making up facts and history, it's becoming boring.

Please read up some history and not written by mighty US

Russia failed? At one stage ruble was worth US$2

Please enough with the nonsense

Russia is not the one with trillion dollars of debt

Russia is so weak that your president does nothing but talk

No. Russia really is weak. But they are still dangerous. That Putin character is turning out even worse than was already obvious. Sorry for Russians to be stuck with such a dictator, but heck, they like him, that's even sadder:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-putins-error-in-ukraine-is-the-kind-that-leads-to-catastrophe/2014/03/02/d376603e-a249-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html

The Russian leader’s nostalgia for the past was on display at the Sochi Olympics. AsDavid Remnick wrote last week in the New Yorker, Putin regards the fall of the Soviet Union as a “tragic error,” and the Olympics celebrated his vision that a strong Russia is back. That attitude led Putin to whatSecretary of State John Kerry described on Sunday as a “brazen act of aggression” and a “violation of international obligations.”

Kerry called on Putin to “undo this act of invasion.” The Russian leader would save himself immense grief by following Kerry’s advice, but that seems unlikely. His mistake in Sevastopol may lead to others elsewhere, though hopefully Putin will avoid reckless actions. But the more Putin seeks to assert Russia’s strength, he will actually underline its weakness.

It's so often the weak that are the most dangerous.

Most playground bullies are fundamentally weak.

[Fasth]

I did a call to my relatives in Russian, just after a statement about Invasion in Crimea.
And they told me that Ukrainians attacked Russian "citizen" in Crimea and Russia sent military to "protect" them.
Then I wached a russian goverment's media report about situation in Crimea:
They showed video from Kyiv before Yanukovitz escape (20-22 Feb) where Berkut (pro-Yanukovitz police) were shooting in DEMONSTRATIONS (where ~100 people died), but they issued it (prepare!) VISA VERSA as " "Nazi" Ukrainians were shooting in RUSSIANS" at 1-st March in Simferopol (Crimea) not Kyiv!

The word "shocked" is not enough to describe my feelings.

A day after all pro-ukrainian communites in russian's social web "VK" were blocked for russians (the most popular was about 500k subscribes).
Today main fond stocks collapsed ~12%.
The russian currency weaked ~20% since New Year.
But russians sit in the houses and wondering about ukrainian death.
(Sorry for my English, just emotions...)

[Fasth]

About withdrawing russian consulates in totally true.
I watched stream from russian upper-house about Invasion decision and the deputy said "They recommed Putin to withdraw consulates".
They also called USA as "Imperia of lies".
I dont know how that happened. I always believed that ukrainians and russians are brother nations.
How brainwashing like that even possible in 21 century in non-isolated country like North Korea or Iran...

[folium]

You really need to face the reality and stop making up facts and history, it's becoming boring.

Please read up some history and not written by mighty US

Russia failed? At one stage ruble was worth US$2

You really need to face up to reality and stop making up facts and history. It's becoming boring.

Please read up some history and not that written by the mighty Vlad.

Russia indeed failed in its bid for supremacy. At close of market today the ruble was trading at 36.55310 for $1. Whoops....

[Yahooka]

The situation in Ukraine is very uncertain and it`s not a surprise that the Russians will try to be active and secure they interests in the area.This will not escalate into a big international crisis.

"Russia try to...secure their interests in the area"....does that include the entirety of Ukraine? How about Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Kazakhstan etc and thus rebuild Putin's beloved empire?

"This will not escalate into a big international crisis".....Bit late.

I presume you have not read the news in the last 72 hours.

Have read the news and it will still not escalate into an big international crisis.

[F430murci]

love the "wife says"

Does she know EVERYONE over there?

For the record, my father is there, so is my half brother, his wife and her family and none of them seem worried or concerned even a little bit.

Russian market off by 13 percent in one day. 13 percent?!?!!! Ruble at new low. Yep. sure sounds like calmness an no worry or concern in Russia to me . . .

To put this in perspective, I think our biggest single day down swing in 2008 when the bubble burst was 7 1/2 percent.

You can post all the nice little happy, happy,joy, joy videos of propaganda rallies of a few all you want, but the fact remains that a 13% run on the market is good indication of panic, worry and a whole lot of concern. 58 billion lost in the equity market in a single day.

The sad part is that issues like these hurts Russians who can least afford it the most. Watch Russian interest rates now and see how high they have to go to offset currency. This is a bad situation for Russian people if not reversed quickly

How does your reply relate to my post ??

Yes market is down , so what????

I mean you really fail to understand Russia will be just fine without the West, especially the US of A.

The mighty US of A is going to be in deep bobo once Russia gives green light to all the itchy fingers.

Might be little too much to handle for US and rest assured EU would not be there to help.

Then you can see what happens to markets and currency

You are illustrating the problem nicely: Eastern European driven by pride, resentment and frustration and an inability to connect the dots or make logical leaps.

Statements such as "US of A is going to be in deep bobo once Russia gives green light to all the itchy fingers" reflects nothing but deep personal resentments or an inferiority complex. BTW, bobo is a clown . . .

I have never once said that US can or should help Russia. These are tapes playing in your head based on something other than what is being discussed.

I have zero ill feelings toward Putin, Russia or Russians. I feel very sorry for the general population of Russians and Ukrainians as they live a very hard life, in a very hard climate and under very difficult circumstances. Let Putin have his warm water naval port. Fine by me.

There is a human tragedy at play in the Ukraine, but you are too blinded by your pride, prejudice and resentments to see it.

You really need to face the reality and stop making up facts and history, it's becoming boring.

Please read up some history and not written by mighty US

Russia failed? At one stage ruble was worth US$2

Please enough with the nonsense

Russia is not the one with trillion dollars of debt

Russia is so weak that your president does nothing but talk

Is Russia per capita GDP even in the top 50 yet?

I agree, US has it own set of problems and a President that talks. We in the US, however, are extremely lucky, have an incredible lifestyle and take it for granted how well we have it here until we venture out and see how things are elsewhere in the world.

Edited March 3, 2014 by F430murci

[F430murci]

About withdrawing russian consulates in totally true.

I watched stream from russian upper-house about Invasion decision and the deputy said "They recommed Putin to withdraw consulates".

They also called USA as "Imperia of lies".

I dont know how that happened. I always believed that ukrainians and russians are brother nations.

How brainwashing like that even possible in 21 century in non-isolated country like North Korea or Iran...

So, as the Russians closing down their consulates in the US or are the US consulates in Russia being shut down according to the proposal or recommendation you saw? Makes a big difference for my family here at the present time. Thanks.

[folium]

@F430 Murci

To put some flesh on the bone....

Russia 58th in world per capita GDP PPP

Car ownership 293/1000 people, 57th in world

Moscow has twice the population density of NYC

Average mortgage rates in Russia in 2013 were 12.7% http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-25/sberbank-battles-vtb-for-home-loans-double-poland-russia-credit.html

Cost of living, pair of Levis equivalent to 20% of net average monthly income

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Russia

So why would they want to invade an economic basketcase? Probably for the same reason that they felt the need to spend over 50billion Euros (over 9x the price of Vancouver's) on the Winter Olympics in Sochi...

[F430murci]

@F430 Murci

To put some flesh on the bone....

Russia 58th in world per capita GDP PPP

Car ownership 293/1000 people, 57th in world

Moscow has twice the population density of NYC

Average mortgage rates in Russia in 2013 were 12.7% http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-25/sberbank-battles-vtb-for-home-loans-double-poland-russia-credit.html

Cost of living, pair of Levis equivalent to 20% of net average monthly income

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Russia

So why would they want to invade an economic basketcase? Probably for the same reason that they felt the need to spend over 50billion Euros (over 9x the price of Vancouver's) on the Winter Olympics in Sochi...

Haha, thanks.

I actually deleted those questions you answered because I already knew the answers and I truly like Russia. I am not trying to paint Russia in a bad or negative light.

My wife has a clothing business that sells designer clothes and Levis in Russia. I was blown by what people will pay for Levis in Russia. You can also make a killing selling iPhones there even if you pay full retail price here.

You are correct. Russia has serious economic issues. Moscow is crazy expensive. I am amazed at people survive over there on what they make.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and those with personal comments directed at other posters have been deleted along with replies.

[geriatrickid]

I want to support the Ukrainians. I really do. Unfortunately, the involvement of neo Nazis and extremist right wing groups in the recent protests cause me to hesitate. The Ukraine has been a corrupt dysfunctional state for some time. The former leader who was imprisoned for corruption, was corrupt, and she didn't have much respect for the concept of democracy when she was in power. She lost an election. The deposed leader, was the legally elected PM and it appears was legally removed by the legislature. It's a mess.

The Russians are concerned with the push against its borders. For Russians, land is a buffer. It helped slow down the French and it did the same to the Germans when there were invasions. Would the USA be willing to accept a Mexico that allied itself with Russia, or a Canada that suddenly went Chinese? This isn't the USA's fight, and there is nothing to be gained for the USA. On the contrary, there can only be losses. Russia is needed to help rein in Iran and to ensure that the chemical weapons in Syria are removed. Both Iran and Syria present more of a threat to world peace and US interests than the Russian occupation of the Crimea.

This is a European problem. I doubt the UK will do anything to hurt its London financial markets. The Russians have billions of investments and the British (and Swiss) investment community need that money. That Russian money has provided the fat bonuses for the bankers of Switzerland and the UK. I also doubt that Germany will do anything that would imperil 40% of its gas supply. Despite all talk to the contrary, I honestly think many western Europeans had a sigh of relief when the Russians moved in. Now they may not have to fund a bail out of the Ukraine. I can understand why former soviet dominated states such as Poland are alarmed. However, the EU and the USA, would be well served by following the counsel of the Poles, Hungarians, Romanians and Czechs. These are countries that know the Russians and have shown prudence and sober thought when considering this issue.