How Safe is CM Street Vendor Food, MSG, 'Refined' Sugar, Formaldehyde?

[ThaiHerbs]

I have a problem (reaction) with most of the street vendor food here in CM and now rarely indulge. I tried it almost daily for my first year here (on my 6th year) and never felt well (nausea for hours at a time). I believe(d) it was mostly because of the large amount of msg and refined sugar so loved by many (or most?) Thais, plus in some cases they use low quality cooking oil or old/rancid oil.

My gf can smell msg in food, I cannot smell it but my guts get all queazy and I feel generally unwell shortly after. I have found a few Thai restaurants that only use the best quality ingredients with no msg and the food is GREAT, I have only positive reactions during and after eating there. Everyone has different tolerance levels of course but even back in Canada I would react badly to msg, especially in some chain restaurant salad bars.

What is msg http://www.naturalnews.com/034272_MSG_monosodium_glutamate.html

What is 'refined' sugar http://www.becomehealthynow.com/article/carbs/1082/

A couple articles on msg...

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/04/21/msg-is-this-silent-killer-lurking-in-your-kitchen-cabinets.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/06/16/this-common-food-additive-now-linked-to-weight-gain.aspx

refined sugar...

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/12/11/sugar-heart-disease.aspx

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/9987825/Sweet-poison-why-sugar-is-ruining-our-health.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/041232_cancer_cells_processed_sugar_research.html

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/cancer-sugar-strategy-selective-starvation-cancer

Now this!!!

Health ministry warns of increasing use of formalin by vendors at fresh markets

February 24, 2014

The Public Health Ministry has warned consumers to be aware of buying fresh food and vegetable at fresh markets as now use of formalin among vendors is increasing and could be hazardous to their health.

Vendors are found to use formalin to keep their merchandise fresh.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/health-ministry-warns-increasing-use-formalin-vendors-fresh-markets/

I am thinking after reading the articles above and below that perhaps I have also encountered 'formalin' (40% formaldehyde) in food which added to my past reactions.

There is a Thai Visa forum on this subject http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/706792-thai-health-ministry-warns-of-increasing-use-of-formalin-by-vendors-at-fresh-markets/ but my question is how many here in Chiang Mai have had problems/reactions to street vendor food like I experienced locally? My GF and I were discussing this yesterday and she said she buys fresh sliced fruit from the motorbike vendors in the day time but the fresh fruit from some operating at night give her an upset stomach (formalin?). This is near her store, so may not be indicitive overall in CM.

Best not to name names as there could be some liability issues.

more articles

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/02/24/embalming-chemical-found-quarter-goods-sold-fresh-markets

"...Meat should have a normal color and smell and be cooked at least 70 degrees Celsius to break down the chemical. Fruit and veggies should be rinsed with salt water, vinegar or baking soda." [which should also remove some of the pesticides]

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/02/26/no-taste-formaldehyde-food-study-smell-clean-and-cook-it-you-eat-it

an older article from Indonesia http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Formaldehyde-food-scare-in-Indonesia/2006/01/09/1136771495164.html

In my opinion it helps to learn to "trust your guts" as your body will normally give signals as to what it does not like, taste aside.

Doug

[uptheos]

I'm not interested in the articles, I've read enough on the subject.

But I am interested in this, can you expand please?

"I have found a few Thai restaurants that only use the best quality ingredients with no msg and the food is GREAT",

[ThaiHerbs]

But I am interested in this, can you expand please?

"I have found a few Thai restaurants that only use the best quality ingredients with no msg and the food is GREAT",

There are 3 my GF and I now go to where we both really like the food. I will get more specific info from her tonight and post tomorrow.

They are smaller Thai-type eateries that do not stand out, not in downtown CM - plus menu and signs are in Thai only so I have difficulty in describing them exactly so you could find them.

[uptheos]

But I am interested in this, can you expand please?

"I have found a few Thai restaurants that only use the best quality ingredients with no msg and the food is GREAT",

There are 3 my GF and I now go to where we both really like the food. I will get more specific info from her tonight and post tomorrow.

They are smaller Thai-type eateries that do not stand out, not in downtown CM - plus menu and signs are in Thai only so I have difficulty in describing them exactly so you could find them.

OK, look forward to the info.

[worgeordie]

You seem especially sensitive to what you think is in the food,

so maybe best just to cook your own,thats what i would do if

i had your issues with the food.

Sometimes its best not to think what could be in the food we

consume , as we would end up starving,I am very lucky as

can eat all foods without problem, my greatest concern is

not so much whats in it, as long as its freshly cooked,and

has not been sitting about all day.

Its not just MSG, Formalin,but also Borax and God only knows

what else goes into the food we consume today,not just street

food,but that manufactured by major food companies,profit is

all that counts nowadays.

regards Worgeordie

[zeichen]

sorry but cannot believe that your gf can smell msg, it is odorless. I do believe that some get reactions from eating it.

I have never heard of formaladhyde in food. I wouldn't make sense at all.

I prefer to cook myself so I avoid most of these issues, but I too would like to see a list of 100% healthy/ organic resturaunts that remain vigilant.

[cardinalblue]

In the hospital industry they use 10% formalin or 4% formaldehyde in labs and pathology...

It's has a very low odor threshold so can be overpowering if the lid is off a container...

Flat out believe that 40% in the article is a typo...will check if they have reclassify it as a carcinogen as it wasn't in year 2000..nasty toxic chemical and highly regulated in calif...

CB

[andreandre]

sorry but cannot believe that your gf can smell msg, it is odorless. I do believe that some get reactions from eating it.

I have never heard of formaladhyde in food. I wouldn't make sense at all.

I prefer to cook myself so I avoid most of these issues, but I too would like to see a list of 100% healthy/ organic resturaunts that remain vigilant.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/health-ministry-warns-increasing-use-formalin-vendors-fresh-markets/

[ARISTIDE]

what about the way they clean the dishes, 2 buckets last all night.

[femi fan]

If vendors want to use this formalin, then they have to buy it from somewhere. Why are such chemicals and poisons even up for general sale?

[Oscar2]

sorry but cannot believe that your gf can smell msg, it is odorless. I do believe that some get reactions from eating it.

I have never heard of formaladhyde in food. I wouldn't make sense at all.

I prefer to cook myself so I avoid most of these issues, but I too would like to see a list of 100% healthy/ organic resturaunts that remain vigilant.

Formaldehyde (embalming fluid) has been showing up on vegetables, seafood and ginger (among other things) all over Thailand. it has been on the Thai news the last 2-3 days. apparently independent labs have been purchasing these goods and testing them and finding rather high levels. it allows the items to look good past their sell date. it is quite alarming. you can read about this on most English language news sites in Thailand.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So, I may be missing something, but if you don't appreciate MSG in your food, then why not just ask the street stall cook to not put it in? (Both MSG as well as things that contain it, such as Ros Dee powder)

Or is that too easy? The good thing with street food is that you're standing right there talking to the guy or gal who makes it, so you get to communicate what to put in and what to leave out.

This applies only to food made to order of course; noodle soup broth would already have a cup or so of MSG added.

[thhMan]

Hypochondria?

Ever think its not the food and just the way its handled... dirty dishes, dirty tools etc...

I would really like to know if much is taught about hygiene in schools, TV adverts or other...

I recently told my missus to lick the washcloth... of course she said "no way"... and I said... but sweetheart, you wash the dishes with it, so it must be clean... yes?

Next time... look at the kitchens and the washing process... I was unfortunate enough to enter an Indian Restaurant Kitchen in Pattaya (popular one) and was totally shocked at what I saw....

Perhaps blaming the food is looking in the wrong direction

[Estrada]

They do not put 40% Formaldehyde on the food to preserve it. That is the commercial concentration of a drum of the concentrate, it is far less in parts per million. They prefer to use borax although that was outlawed also.

Please be aware that Tobacco smoke contains Formaldehyde, should we not also be encourage the ban on cigarettes and smoking in all public places. Also the Air pollution from the burning of trees and charcoal contains formaldehyde.

[Sojuncoke]

I dont understand people that treat MSG like its some poison. You might as well stop taking in salts

[BudRight]

Glutamate is harmless. MSG is just that with a sodium ion on the end. You are a hypochondriac.

[Ulysses G.]

I dont understand people that treat MSG like its some poison. You might as well stop taking in salts

And vegetables.

[unanimosity]

I'm not interested in the articles, I've read enough on the subject.

But I am interested in this, can you expand please?

"I have found a few Thai restaurants that only use the best quality ingredients with no msg and the food is GREAT",

Those restaurants are all in Los Angeles.

[unanimosity]

I dont understand people that treat MSG like its some poison. You might as well stop taking in salts

You wouldn't understand sinus migraines either if you have never experienced them. That is your reality but not everybody's. Consider yourself fortunate.

[reptile91602]

There are few to no restaurants or food stands that do not use msg in Thailand . If they tell you they don't, they lie. Well that;s a surprise!

Every time you eat out you are doing just a little bit of harm to yourself in Thailand as all the food is pretty much chemical ridden and cooked with msg. The larger ocean fish will most likely have formaldehyde unless you know the fisherman personally.

The only places to go for groceries are the King's ( yeah the real king of Thailand) grocery stores or the very small 4am markets and you get to know the grower who is growing in the yard out back.

the only restaurant is MK because you can cook the food yourself. I wouldn't doubt that even the donut houses put some msg in the goo. Maybe not.

Living in Thailand is a real crap shoot. So just enjoy it .

[reptile91602]

They always say that Singha beer is ladened with formaldehyde. I prefer Heineken. Don't know if that is good for you either but I like it.

[unanimosity]

As for the OP, there must not be much problem because the rats and cockroaches seem to be doing okay.

What might deserve your attention is:

• the absence of running water
• washing the plate and utensils you eat off of in a tub of dirty cold water, maybe from a klong
• the attitude that flies are the cute natural order of things (despite the fecal matter and disease they can transmit)
• uncovered food
• people sneezing and coughing
• road dust and exhaust
• the high percentage of locals that don't wash hands after using the toilet (and the high percentage that wash before using it.)
• vendors picking their nose or feeding a dog and then handling food served to you.

Edited March 1, 2014 by unanimosity

[ironhorse10]

Formaldehyde has been used in food and drink for years, during the Viet Nam war all beer shipped from the US had Formaldehyde in it as a presevative, we used to laugh about it saying you would get emblamed instead of drunk. Now I don't think it is so funny, I eat from the street vendors all the time in CM and have never had any problems. It fact out where I live, by the University, is some of the best deep freid chicken I have ever eaten

[reptile91602]

Of course the food tastes great because it is loaded with msg.

[reptile91602]

Funny story. There was a european living next to us with his issan wife and he was in his 30's loosing his hair. He'd lived in Thailand off and on for15 years and He complained to us that his family didn't have a history of this. My wife cooked one night with her for a party and my god she put 2 large handfulls of the shit in her curry. It was delicious but if he eats that every day he'll eventually lose more than his hair. He is probably eating a lot of viagra at 40 something. Haha.

[johnnysunshine]

It is not worth the risk of eating street vendors. Do you eat there because it is so cheap? Isn't the food here in CM affordable enough already to invest a few more Baht into something cooked with healthy ingredients and good intentions? You pay less now for the cheap food and pay more later for what it did to your body that now requires restoration.

Lots of good food at organic and natural restaurants of which Chiang Mai boasts more than any city in Thailand including BKK. These include but are not limited to Anchan, Blue Diamond, DaDa Cafe, Juicy 4 You, PunPun ( 2 locations on Suthep Road), Kuhn Churn, Salad Concept, DinDee Cafe, The Whole Earth, Tianzi Chinese Macrobiotic, Amrita, and many others.

Think less about the few Baht you save and more about your long term optimal health.

[Sheryl]

Street food is loaded with msg and refined sugar, and also very unhealthy oils.

Can't say re the formalin.

[puipuitom]

First of all: the consumer protection in Thailand for wrong additives in food is close to zero. Maybe when a restaurant is farang owned, a lot of investigations might be done to squeeze money out of it, but Thai owned ? ?

Yes, a lot of unallowed chemicals are used all over Asia to let food look better, keep longer fresh, kill bugs, for instance around HCMC discovered: rice noodles contained with Tinopal–a fluorescent whitening agent used in detergents and when it is added to rice vermicelli, it makes it look whiter, brighter and fresher than normal, and thereby more attractive to customers.

Therefore, when I am in TH, I buy only retail packed products from BRC/IFS/ISO 22000 approved manufacturers, or.. from the fresh market where I know and trust the vendor. ( that is close to never )

My biggest surprize in all these letters is always, any publication on internet, written even by somebody who looks for the first time in a cooking pot, is more believed then scientific publications of official governmental bodies like the European EFSA, of from food authorities like the American FDA, the British FSA , or even from food science faculties like of Kasetsart.

Numerous regulatory authorities and expert bodies, including FAO/WHO, FDA, Health Canada, EFSA and FSANZ, all have concluded that MSG is safe for use as an ingredient in foods.

5. U.S. review dismisses MSG allergy concerns, see http://www.nsf-cmi.com/news_story.asp?news_id=51

A recent scientific review has concluded that the flavour-enhancing food additive monosodium glutamate (MSG) does not play any significant role in the development of allergies such as asthma, urticaria and rhinitis.
Researchers have stated that decades of research have failed to demonstrate a clear and consistent relationship between MSG ingestion and the development of these conditions.

Whilst MSG is generally regarded as safe under normal consumption patterns, various anecdotal reports and clinical studies of variable quality have attributed allergic reactions to the ingestion of MSG, raising public concern regarding the safety of consuming MSG (symptoms referred to as ‘Chinese restaurant syndrome’ and MSG symptom complex’). Reference: Clinical & Experimental Allergy , 2009, (39) 640-646.

[thailandbeachisland]

There is no way to escape the shit that is found in food here, even on vegetables and fruits.

Enjoy corruption and little knowledge about health of the local people.

Only 1 solution, grow your food and cook it !

[nickcar]

I have an allergy to MSG. i come out in a rash that itches like mad an hour or two after eating it. All street food has MSG. I used to love eating it because it is so tasty. If i want to eat something like fried rice i can ask them not to put it in. Otherwise its a nono. Some restaurants can be reliably asked not to use it. Good restaurants don't use it anyway but have to check.