Cheapest language school that offers ED visa, just visa, don't want to attend classes.

[Johnnie99]

Quite right. Advertising one's intention to break the law is pretty dumb. Maybe that's why this guy cannot get a legitimate visa.

[Johnnie99]

Who really cares if people "scam" a system full of scams, if it doesn't affect you then mind your own bloody business. NB, I am not on an ED visa, or for that matter, "scamming" any other visas.

... because breaking the law to suit one's own ends is totally justified, right?

Turn a blind eye?

Learn from history

Edited March 2, 2014 by ubonjoe
Removed a inflammatory word

[JLCrab]

I think there may be a more simple explanation: The Thai MoFA/Immigration people realize that there is a certain component who will sign up for a language class/Ed Visa who would not otherwise attend a school... Or there are persons who are willing to do visa runs to whatever embassy/consulate that is willing to issue a visa. But in creating such a regime the authorities realize that there is maybe a different component who are discouraged to come to Thailand if such an effort is required and that might be a far larger component.

As to a visa and extension of stay for a single, under 50, non-working , non-married to a Thai, non-Thai citizen, there already is an option: a 10 million baht investment. What some suggest in above posts is that there should be a less expensive option. Hope springs eternal.

[Tchooptip]

Who really cares if people "scam" a system full of scams, if it doesn't affect you then mind your own bloody business. NB, I am not on an ED visa, or for that matter, "scamming" any other visas.

Because the OP actually runs a language school and is complaining:o although living here a number of years I attended 3 hrs a week for 6 months and am proficient enough in reading, writing and oral skills. Why does it need 5 years to learn a language. The first question my school asked was how long do I want a visa, no question on level or preferred hours. As said all the marketing ALL schools do us geared towards offering visas. I'd someone is prepared to pay almost 40k a year just for a visa that is their choice

Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So for you: 3 hours a week=12 hours a month X by 6 months =72 hours (OK 80 hours) and you are proficient in reading writing anf oral skill! Congratulation...not sure Einstein could have done it!

[Suradit69]

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

The Thai laws are made by Thais! Each country as its own legal oddities especially where immigration is required,

Education visas to the UK and other EU countries are considerable harder to get, more rigorously enforced and policed tighter. Just ask London Metropolitan University!

The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students.

"The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students."

Amen, There seems to be a Nanny State attitude of entitlement. I want to stay in Thailand therefore I must be allowed to stay in Thailand otherwise Thai laws must be antiquated and need to be changed to suit me.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Suradit69

[frimu]

Let's just cancel all Ed Visas for Thai language studies as anyone who wants to learn Thai can take classes at their local Thai temple in Farangland.

I'm glad that noone listens to you.

[frimu]

A simple and effective clampdown would be to have "students" sit for a basic language test prior to renewal

If one were to really have attended classes, surely they would pass a kindergarten test!

somtam palah

This is implemented! Holders of an education visa must do a test after half a year and pass it in order to qualify for two more 90 day extensions.

[amse]

The clamp down has already been going on in Phuket, 30 some Russians got a Ed visa at one school I know of, never attended classes and instead set up a tourist agency with lower prices than Thai tourist agencies, after Thai's complained, immigration raided the language school with no records of attendance, Russians deported and school collapsed.

[uptheos]

I still cannot get my head around the fact that a foreigner can get an ED visa to come to Thailand and learn Spanish......Who/what Thai immigration officer can test what you have learned.

Am I wrong to have a ?.........?

No señor

[uptheos]

If a person wants to stay here, then they should use any means they like as long as it hurts no one and good luck to them.

It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else.

My guess is that most people who object to the ed visa thing, are probably on 15/30 day runs and couldn't afford the fee required.

[transam]

If a person wants to stay here, then they should use any means they like as long as it hurts no one and good luck to them.

It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else.

My guess is that most people who object to the ed visa thing, are probably on 15/30 day runs and couldn't afford the fee required.

I think about folk who come here to work, lose their job and are given 7 days to bugger off..................But wait.............noooooooooo, they can give a bloke 500 quid for an ED visa whilst they look for another job..........Instead of given the opportunity to sort stuff out.

[bigbamboo]

Who really cares if people "scam" a system full of scams, if it doesn't affect you then mind your own bloody business. NB, I am not on an ED visa, or for that matter, "scamming" any other visas.

Because the OP actually runs a language school and is complaining:o although living here a number of years I attended 3 hrs a week for 6 months and am proficient enough in reading, writing and oral skills. Why does it need 5 years to learn a language. The first question my school asked was how long do I want a visa, no question on level or preferred hours. As said all the marketing ALL schools do us geared towards offering visas. I'd someone is prepared to pay almost 40k a year just for a visa that is their choice

Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So for you: 3 hours a week=12 hours a month X by 6 months =72 hours (OK 80 hours) and you are proficient in reading writing anf oral skill! Congratulation...not sure Einstein could have done it!

In addition to my native English I am proficient in four (latin) languages to varying degrees but Thai has proved to be my nemesis. Eighty hours to learn to read, write and speak Thai? In my dreams!

[PattayaPhom]

Who really cares if people "scam" a system full of scams, if it doesn't affect you then mind your own bloody business. NB, I am not on an ED visa, or for that matter, "scamming" any other visas.

Because the OP actually runs a language school and is complaining:o although living here a number of years I attended 3 hrs a week for 6 months and am proficient enough in reading, writing and oral skills. Why does it need 5 years to learn a language. The first question my school asked was how long do I want a visa, no question on level or preferred hours. As said all the marketing ALL schools do us geared towards offering visas. I'd someone is prepared to pay almost 40k a year just for a visa that is their choice

Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So for you: 3 hours a week=12 hours a month X by 6 months =72 hours (OK 80 hours) and you are proficient in reading writing anf oral skill! Congratulation...not sure Einstein could have done it!

With revision and use outside the classroom yes. Here ies the problem, students not interested in learning? Just for a visa.

Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[PattayaPhom]

French,Spanish, Italian:lol:

Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[aquario33]

Does it make a difference aniway to visit classes to follow such a crappy book never seen before in my life ,if so called teacher at the well known Language school are not even aible to:

-understand questions in english and answer helpfully ( as the guidelines doesnt include it ...)

-"Book " is not based on daily purposes such as going to market buy fruits, food or whatever etc.

-stoopid phrases like : The book is on the table. The picture is on the wall.And so on...

Repeating silly phrases again ,again , again,untill realize its not daily based conversation required and related to REAL life in Thailand quiting the class and no waste of time anymore as there is no interest byside the school either to teach or practice REAL Thai Language Conversation even after several request from many students to build a Conversation Class ,such as basics should be provided by a professional school . I personally wouldnt recommend a school like that. Im not giving any name of that school chain with branches in BKK, Phuket, Samui , Chiangmai and Chiangrai too. Check by yourself and think about if its really worth to learn Thai letters by using a crappy book ( including errors as well) or simply just enjoy any kind of institution to PRACTICE Thai language with Phonetic. I tried both system and after two years there is no big effort after visiting the second school using Thai letters as it's not even possible to visit more than two classes / (2hours each ) during a week to get into the materia seriously so whats the point ...? Keep the students booking courses again next year because most of them really want to learn Thai Language but finally not enough possibilities to really practice ?

So, whats the difference between visiting those classes or not .

There is a small difference,you will meet your friends somewhere else and watch out for beautyful girls anywher else in LOS.

Save your money, check out first how the school functions such as Teacher Knowledge ( if there is any required) and / or possibilties to visit daily classes with certain progress included .

[Docno]

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

The Thai laws are made by Thais! Each country as its own legal oddities especially where immigration is required,

Education visas to the UK and other EU countries are considerable harder to get, more rigorously enforced and policed tighter. Just ask London Metropolitan University!

The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students.

My post went right over your head... Thai laws written by Thais? Amazing insight there. Then you go on to attack me by saying the same thing I said (that it is being abused and will negatively effect legitimate students).

I'm not even on an eD visa.

The point you missed is there is a defined demographic of expats that live in Thailand that the current immigration laws don't accommodate. This is why the eD visa is being abused. People that do not meet retirement age and are not working inside Thailand have no other visa options. Sure you could marry a thai national, setup a shoddy thai company (which costs more money), or frequent border runs, yet people will continue to take the path of least resistance which is the eD visa. People aren't going to magically stop abusing it until one of two things happens.

1) eD visa restrictions get tighter and make it a more difficult option than the other options.

2) more accommodating visa options are created.

The most logically thing to do would be to extend work permits/visas to those who derive their income from outside Thailand. It is win/win. Thailand can then collect tax and extra income on more people, and those people could stay legally in thailand, and those studying legitimately would not have their visa system ruined by fake students and fake schools.

But hey, this is Thailand and as you said 'thai laws are made by thais'

Why does any country need to have immigration laws that "accommodate" all or particular 'defined demographic' groups? Most of our home countries make it difficult for Thais just to visit for holiday, much less immigrate. I don't know we're you're from, but I suspect I couldn't move there that easily even if I had overseas income. And it would probably be even harder for a Thai.

[transam]

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

The Thai laws are made by Thais! Each country as its own legal oddities especially where immigration is required,

Education visas to the UK and other EU countries are considerable harder to get, more rigorously enforced and policed tighter. Just ask London Metropolitan University!

The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students.

My post went right over your head... Thai laws written by Thais? Amazing insight there. Then you go on to attack me by saying the same thing I said (that it is being abused and will negatively effect legitimate students).

I'm not even on an eD visa.

The point you missed is there is a defined demographic of expats that live in Thailand that the current immigration laws don't accommodate. This is why the eD visa is being abused. People that do not meet retirement age and are not working inside Thailand have no other visa options. Sure you could marry a thai national, setup a shoddy thai company (which costs more money), or frequent border runs, yet people will continue to take the path of least resistance which is the eD visa. People aren't going to magically stop abusing it until one of two things happens.

1) eD visa restrictions get tighter and make it a more difficult option than the other options.

2) more accommodating visa options are created.

The most logically thing to do would be to extend work permits/visas to those who derive their income from outside Thailand. It is win/win. Thailand can then collect tax and extra income on more people, and those people could stay legally in thailand, and those studying legitimately would not have their visa system ruined by fake students and fake schools.

But hey, this is Thailand and as you said 'thai laws are made by thais'

Why does any country need to have immigration laws that "accommodate" all or particular 'defined demographic' groups? Most of our home countries make it difficult for Thais just to visit for holiday, much less immigrate. I don't know we're you're from, but I suspect I couldn't move there that easily even if I had overseas income. And it would probably be even harder for a Thai.

I wonder why most countries make it difficult for Thai ladies to enter................

[BusyB]

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

The Thai laws are made by Thais! Each country as its own legal oddities especially where immigration is required,

Education visas to the UK and other EU countries are considerable harder to get, more rigorously enforced and policed tighter. Just ask London Metropolitan University!

The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students.

My post went right over your head... Thai laws written by Thais? Amazing insight there. Then you go on to attack me by saying the same thing I said (that it is being abused and will negatively effect legitimate students).

I'm not even on an eD visa.

The point you missed is there is a defined demographic of expats that live in Thailand that the current immigration laws don't accommodate. This is why the eD visa is being abused. People that do not meet retirement age and are not working inside Thailand have no other visa options. Sure you could marry a thai national, setup a shoddy thai company (which costs more money), or frequent border runs, yet people will continue to take the path of least resistance which is the eD visa. People aren't going to magically stop abusing it until one of two things happens.

1) eD visa restrictions get tighter and make it a more difficult option than the other options.

2) more accommodating visa options are created.

The most logically thing to do would be to extend work permits/visas to those who derive their income from outside Thailand. It is win/win. Thailand can then collect tax and extra income on more people, and those people could stay legally in thailand, and those studying legitimately would not have their visa system ruined by fake students and fake schools.

But hey, this is Thailand and as you said 'thai laws are made by thais'

Though on the surface I agree with you, there is a problem within this country for those who do not wish to work, do not need to work, who do not wish to leave vast sums of money in a Thai bank, get married, or have a child. That leaves doing visa runs or even abusing the system that is long due for an over haul the only way to be able to stay. Personally I hate the visa run. It is silly that Thailand requires you to do it in the first place. For I would be far happier to spend the money that I would have to in another country, doing said run, here. Why not make that an option. For in the end it would give more money to Thailand. But as said, "Thai laws are made by Thais"... so are we simply to think that way... Thai style. No reason? It is stupid.

All the system now offers is a confusing array of visa applications, rules to follow, and choices to make with regards to the loop holes that are there and so easy to take advantage of. Then there is the question of the graft that is rampant here in LOS. I happen to know that where I live the immigration office will 'help you' get the visa you want as long as you are willing to 'play their game'. I will not say anymore than that.

So though the system on Ed Visas is tightening... that term can only be loosely applied. It has always been the easiest way of bucking the system and in so doing making it far more difficult for those that are really wanting to be a real student here. The problem is that this system has been in place for years and the only real change has been the one regarding G7 country citizens getting 30-days when crossing borders by land into Thailand back last November (2013) and who knows how long that one will stand the test of time.

I do not have to work. I am not, however, independently wealth. My money that I worked for is invested in the US and in the EU and I live off of the dividends and interests I receive from those investments in the US. Placing any of it into a Thai bank is beyond silly as it will do nothing except sit there and I would not even have the abilities that any western bank offers (like transferring it back and forth as needed via wire transfers and the like without having to jump through even more hoops). I choose not to work while I am here and live from one 60-day (extended by an additional 30) to another. A Non-whatever or having to marry into this Thai community with its pay-for-bride mentality (that no Thai really has to do, or at least to the extent that we would have to) is nuts. It is 2014 and the ASEAN Community is around the corner that they hope the rest of the world (western or not) will play along with.

Cultural issues are all very well and good and have their place, but remember Thailand that elephants also used to be the main source of heavy equipment... not anymore.

imariva

You may or may not be happy with that arrangement, but what you’ve described is exactly how I plan my retirement in Thailand (another few years, but not too long now – close enough to be thinking about it, and I’ve already scouted out somewhere after many years traveling there).

I won’t have money to season though my pension will be enough for a retirement visa. But why?

Much easier to spend 60 + 30 in my rented house, riding my scooter and hanging out with friends and enjoying retirement with a load of activities. Maybe even marry (unlikely).Then a visa trip out to places I’ve never been like Hong Kong, China (much to discover there I think), Bali, wherever. Then back in on the next 60 + 30. And once a year back to Europe for summer and maybe early autumn to see friends and family. 90% of humanity would love to live like that (and quite probably love to live the way you do).

BUT – my first visa will be an ED visa for language purposes and I don't want to have to mess around with visa runs no matter how exotic they are. And I don’t want the Ed visa system corrupted or destroyed by those who can’t simply stick to a few simple rules or accept that they’re not eligible.

Like someone said below your post, <deleted>! If you don’t fit then deal with it – legally!

The arguments being rolled out here about how hard it is, and the “rules are wrong” etc. don’t stand up to scrutiny for one second. They are on the same level as people trying to get into western countries using the excuse that, “you make it too hard for me so I have to apply for political asylum just to get through the border". Then they disappear and work without a permit etc. They have wrecked a system that is meant for genuine asylum seekers, and also given genuine asylum seekers and foreign expats(!) a bad name.

[Spoonman]

If a person wants to stay here, then they should use any means they like as long as it hurts no one and good luck to them.

It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else.

My guess is that most people who object to the ed visa thing, are probably on 15/30 day runs and couldn't afford the fee required.

I think about folk who come here to work, lose their job and are given 7 days to bugger off..................But wait.............noooooooooo, they can give a bloke 500 quid for an ED visa whilst they look for another job..........Instead of given the opportunity to sort stuff out.

I think the 7 days thing is for BOI companies, non Boi and you have 24 hours to get out (or get a 7 day extension from immigration).

[Maestro]

...

Every school i go to, Or be to a free class at, don´t have problem with student come or not, sure they don´t write it on the internet, but when talk to them no problem at all.

But when you come and talk to them, and tell them you have tight schedule, they say no problem at all, we make sure you get your paper and ED-Ext.

So for me the problem is both that so many here have to use ED because no other option because they not 50 years, and so many school don´t care about it and "fix" everything for one, they only think of the money.

What, I wonder, makes the schedule of a foreigner on an education visa so tight that he is unable to attend four hours of class per week? What do these foreigners do all day long?

[rhodie]

To the OP. What is wrong with trying to find the cheapest deal?

[fatdrunkandstupid]

I'm conflicted on the issue.

On one hand, I agree that people gaming the system hurts genuine students who wish to study.

On the other, there is a severe predicament for many people who are not of retirement age, nor work for a company inside Thaland. The labour laws are antiquated and many 'fake students' would love nothing more than to have a legitimate visa and pay taxes to Thailand.

Let me be totally and brutally honest. BIG F***ING DEAL! If you want to come to Thailand and live, you play by the rules - THEIR RULES and live with it or get out. What would you say if someone came to your country and tried the same shit?

In other countries that are not the third world like Thailand, students are allowed to work legally (part time at least).

[Benmart]

For every law passed, rule, ordinance or policy, there are always scofflaws. Those that circumvent those same covenants, make their own problems. I prefer to obey the laws of the land.

It's Live and Let Live.

[duanebigsby]

If a person wants to stay here, then they should use any means they like as long as it hurts no one and good luck to them.

It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else.

My guess is that most people who object to the ed visa thing, are probably on 15/30 day runs and couldn't afford the fee required.

The objection is more along the line of "if too many people are abusing the system, they'll discontinue the Ed visa and a lot of people who properly want to come and get a Thai language education will be screwed." I can see that as a legitimate concern. Personally I if I paid for the course/visa I would take the lessons, couldn't hurt.

[Docno]

The Thai laws are made by Thais! Each country as its own legal oddities especially where immigration is required,

Education visas to the UK and other EU countries are considerable harder to get, more rigorously enforced and policed tighter. Just ask London Metropolitan University!

The Education is not a "loophole" for those who can't meet other visa category requirements and should not be used as such. This has been abused too long and there will likely be a backlash affecting genuine students.

My post went right over your head... Thai laws written by Thais? Amazing insight there. Then you go on to attack me by saying the same thing I said (that it is being abused and will negatively effect legitimate students).

I'm not even on an eD visa.

The point you missed is there is a defined demographic of expats that live in Thailand that the current immigration laws don't accommodate. This is why the eD visa is being abused. People that do not meet retirement age and are not working inside Thailand have no other visa options. Sure you could marry a thai national, setup a shoddy thai company (which costs more money), or frequent border runs, yet people will continue to take the path of least resistance which is the eD visa. People aren't going to magically stop abusing it until one of two things happens.

1) eD visa restrictions get tighter and make it a more difficult option than the other options.

2) more accommodating visa options are created.

The most logically thing to do would be to extend work permits/visas to those who derive their income from outside Thailand. It is win/win. Thailand can then collect tax and extra income on more people, and those people could stay legally in thailand, and those studying legitimately would not have their visa system ruined by fake students and fake schools.

But hey, this is Thailand and as you said 'thai laws are made by thais'

Why does any country need to have immigration laws that "accommodate" all or particular 'defined demographic' groups? Most of our home countries make it difficult for Thais just to visit for holiday, much less immigrate. I don't know we're you're from, but I suspect I couldn't move there that easily even if I had overseas income. And it would probably be even harder for a Thai.

I wonder why most countries make it difficult for Thai ladies to enter................

Just curious... would it be as easy for a Thai guy to get in to your home country--whatever that is--as it was for you to set up in Thailand? Also, with all the stories I come across here about farang pedophiles, thugs, etc., maybe Thailand should make it more difficult for western males to come in. We wouldn't have a problem with that, would we.... [and yes, I'm being facetious]

[fatdrunkandstupid]

McWalen. I am not sure what point you are trying to make with your OP.

The logical fix to your concern is for the Thai government to do away with student visas for those studying Thai.

Visa abuse problem solved.

Of course enrolments at Walen would plummet.

Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it.

Edited March 2, 2014 by fatdrunkandstupid

[maprao]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Dear OP... how many hours of classes per day does a student need to attend at one of your esteemed learning institutions to qualify for an Education Visa?

And at what percentage level of absenteeism do you report the students to immigration to protect the genuine learners from the side-effects of those nefarious individuals who didn't really come to Thailand just to study Thai language?

The ED visa applicant will find out just how many hours it takes when they show up for a visa renewal and cannot converse with the immigration officer in simple Thai...and gets ordered to leave.

If it was the UK welcome and would you like income support , carers allowance and housing allowance lol.

sorry being flippannt.

Also immigration monitor this site so it is good way to get rid of some of the competition perhaps? who knows.

[BudRight]

Would the moderator please delete all the posts about visas in western countries. It is off topic.

[thepool]

MacWalen appears to run a legitimate business.

I would share MacWalen's concern about "illegal" manipulation of the ED visa system as this will inevitably lead to a tightening of regulation which may adversely affect genuine students and legal business.

[nithisa78]

I personally lobby all over the world, for immigration reform. Can't elaborate enough here. in the USA immigration allows any person to take advantage of any loop hole the applicant may not even be aware of. Especially when you will not be a ward of the state. No slur intended to any school of learning. In any Country.

Edited March 2, 2014 by nithisa78