How have retirement Visas in Thailand changed over the last 15 years

[pineconehead]

My intent here is to learn about what has changed over a period of time related to retirement visas in LoS, so that I can look over historical data and information and maybe get an idea of may be coming up in the future.

Thanks in advance for any thoughtful and well reasoned insightful posts.

[Naam]

not many changes.

-retirement age was reduced from 55 to 50 years,

-money in the bank increased from THB400k to 800k (200 to 400k for those married to a Thai lady).

[ubonjoe]

No big changes for many years.

It has been over 10 years since the financial requirements were changed and that was partly a correction for the devaluation of the Baht.

They last change was allowing for the money to be in bank 60 days for the first extension.

[pmarlin]

Before the current rules it was the below. This from the immigration web site

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service#

(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively

permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in

a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of

no less than Baht 20,000.

( If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed

income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht

500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000.

[ubonjoe]

The link you posted does not take me to that info.

This is what the most recent police order (777/2551) says.

2.22 In the case of retirement: Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or (5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date.

(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000.

(b ) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000.

[phuketrichard]

i think it was 6 or 7 years or so ago that they started that the money needed to be "seasoned" in the bank. before that u could put the money in the bank, get ur visa and than take it out.

Edited March 2, 2014 by phuketrichard

[ubonjoe]

The seasoning was started about 10 years ago if I recall correctly. It was in already in effect in 2006 when they did a police order change.

[pineconehead]

So this seasoning is the "must be held in a Thai Bank for 3 months" arraignment? What is this "police order change"? Pmarlins links show me the immigration page but I am not able to access any of the documents listed...fun'n'games the Thai immigration way

[ubonjoe]

See my post about it. There have been no changes since 2008.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Happily, someone in the Immigration Department had learned the term "grandfathered" and when the upped the baht requirements for the post-21 October 1998 applicants, they allowed us old pharts to be grandfathered.

So, given the precedent, that might happened again if the financials are increased at some time in the future.

Mac

[55Jay]

There was a recent policy blip about validity of income letters from embassies. Believe it was 6 months then for some reason, was changed to 2 weeks. Not sure about other countries, but US Embassy engaged and had some result getting it back to 6 months.

After the blip, I had read some reports of inconsistency, and that the Imm Office I use had made their own unofficial policy of about 1 month validity. I chalked it up to Host Nationals not liking their own rules/regs/laws pointed out to them by foreigners and after a while, it would fade away and things would be back to "normal".

I was a bit uneasy presenting my 1 month 2 week old income letter last week for annual extension (marriage). I didn't ask and it was accepted without comment.

[ubonjoe]

There was a recent policy blip about validity of income letters from embassies. Believe it was 6 months then for some reason, was changed to 2 weeks. Not sure about other countries, but US Embassy engaged and had some result getting it back to 6 months.

After the blip, I had read some reports of inconsistency, and that the Imm Office I use had made their own unofficial policy of about 1 month validity. I chalked it up to Host Nationals not liking their own rules/regs/laws pointed out to them by foreigners and after a while, it would fade away and things would be back to "normal".

I was a bit uneasy presenting my 1 month 2 week old income letter last week for annual extension (marriage). I didn't ask and it was accepted without comment.

The 6 month rule was sent out by the head of immigration.to all offices.

There is copy of the notice and a translation of it here. PCEC-NOTICE-THAI-IMMIGRATION-NEWS-JUNE-6.pdf

[55Jay]

There was a recent policy blip about validity of income letters from embassies. Believe it was 6 months then for some reason, was changed to 2 weeks. Not sure about other countries, but US Embassy engaged and had some result getting it back to 6 months.

After the blip, I had read some reports of inconsistency, and that the Imm Office I use had made their own unofficial policy of about 1 month validity. I chalked it up to Host Nationals not liking their own rules/regs/laws pointed out to them by foreigners and after a while, it would fade away and things would be back to "normal".

I was a bit uneasy presenting my 1 month 2 week old income letter last week for annual extension (marriage). I didn't ask and it was accepted without comment.

The 6 month rule was sent out by the head of immigration.to all offices.

There is copy of the notice and a translation of it here. PCEC-NOTICE-THAI-IMMIGRATION-NEWS-JUNE-6.pdf

Yes, I know, thanks.

Point was there may not be rhyme or rhythm to changes in Imm policy that can be predicted by analyzing historical data. I don't know where or why this 2-week anomaly got started, but it was interesting (and frustrating) how it spread, and the delayed impact the (attached) order had on outlying Immigration offices.

[Jingthing]

I have a question for people who actually are impacted by the grandfathering of old rules. Are they actually following that grandfathering at offices? In other words, do they really accept the lower financial levels for those eligible for grandfathering without hassle?

Cheers.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Yes, at some offices, but it's right nice to have a copy of the regulation in Thai handy to show them. First time I ran into this was when there was an Immigration office at Swampyboom, over on the east side of the airport. The gals there had missed out on the reg so the took my Thai and English versions and made copies for themselves. Sam Khok, Pathum Thani, follows the grandfathering rule.

Mac

[pineconehead]

Thank-you 55jay, I was "sort of" aware that 'subject to change without notice' was SOP here. And your point is quite valid. I guess I am a little confused about all the in and outs of what it takes to retire here, and since it is still some time away I was hoping I could get a sense of how it all works there, and how it might change. Many people tell me that things are so variable that in some cases officials aren't even up to date (like the whole buzz around how to get a bank account in LoS, or even the grandfathering rules mentioned here.)

@Ubonjoe; I am still a bit unsure of the use of 'seasoning' thats why I asked. Different slang terms etc etc etc.

[ubonjoe]

I normally don't call it seasoning myself. To me that is something used when cooking. I prefer to say the money has to be the bank for 60 or 90 days before applying for the extension of stay.

[dotpoom]

I seem to recall my first one 12 years ago needed me to get a medical cert and produce copies of my credit cards, neither applies now to the best of my knowledge.

[Suradit69]

How have retirement Visas in Thailand changed ...

They started calling them extensions of stay, not visas ... no, wait, the permission to stay in Thailand for another year based on retirement and granted by Immigrations was never called a visa.

The "seasoning" requirement (a term, similar to "baht bus," probably first produced here on TV or some other farang forum) came into being because some farang were playing musical chairs with the money needed to show a sufficient bank balance to Immigrations. The money would be borrowed, placed in a bank account, shown to Immigrations and then returned to owner in a few days once the new extension was granted to the borrower of said funds. Rinse and repeat, as the shampoo commercial used to say.

The most likely policy change coming would be increased documentation to substantiate claimed monthly pension income or even more documentation required for the "special retirement extension" called an "Ed Visa" by some, as outlined here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/707839-cheapest-language-school-that-offers-ed-visa-just-visa-dont-want-to-attend-classes/

The number of indigent farang sleeping rough on Beach Road in Pattaya or pitching up at hospitals needing free medical care seems to be rising. I wonder how many of them claim to have a pension income greater than Baht 65,000 a month.

Oddly, using the "Ed Visa" as a solution to all problems faced by those wishing to stay in Thailand ... or else clever ways to get around actually having sufficient income for an extension of stay ... are discussed here almost as often as are threads of righteous indignation at the way the police bend the rule of law. Apparently some people need to install this app:

Edited March 3, 2014 by Suradit69

[Jingthing]

I normally don't call it seasoning myself. To me that is something used when cooking. I prefer to say the money has to be the bank for 60 or 90 days before applying for the extension of stay.

Seasoning has multiple meanings. Using it to describe aging money in a financial account is an entirely correct use of the word. So is salting your meat! I think people can deal with the concept of words that mean entirely different things based on the CONTEXT of how they are used.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

I normally don't call it seasoning myself. To me that is something used when cooking. I prefer to say the money has to be the bank for 60 or 90 days before applying for the extension of stay.

Seasoning has multiple meanings. Using it to describe aging money in a financial account is an entirely correct use of the word. So is salting your meat! I think people can deal with the concept of words that mean entirely different things based on the CONTEXT of how they are used.

I cannot find that usage doing an online search on wiki and 2 online dictionaries. Usage as aging does appear here :http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/seasoning

You must remember though that there are many people on this forum that do not have English as their first language that might have a problem with it. Especially if they try to translate it.

[lopburi3]

Google finds more than 6.5 million references in a "money seasoning" search so probably best to agree to disagree. Many/some/a few/most people do understand seasoning as a period of time as well as spice.

About 6,670,000 results (0.38 seconds)

1. The change has been retirement from 60 to 50 (dropped larger financial of early retirement 55 option.

2. Seasoning has been required - medical can be asked first time but even that seems to be past tense. It and police check are required for the non immigrant O/A visa however.

3. Grandfathering has been honored as long as no break in retirement extensions - any break (to include a day late doing new application) seems to, or may, end eligibility however.

Do not believe any prediction can be made on historical data.

[khrab]

How have retirement Visas in Thailand changed ...

They started calling them extensions of stay, not visas ... no, wait, the permission to stay in Thailand for another year based on retirement and granted by Immigrations was never called a visa.

THANK YOU!

It took 19 posts to realize there is no such thing as "retirement visa".

[Naam]

How have retirement Visas in Thailand changed ...

They started calling them extensions of stay, not visas ... no, wait, the permission to stay in Thailand for another year based on retirement and granted by Immigrations was never called a visa.

THANK YOU!

It took 19 posts to realize there is no such thing as "retirement visa".

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it is quite reasonable to call it a "duck".

based on the same assumption i call my yearly "extension" a "one year retirement visa" and no smartàss hairsplitter will change my mind even if he asks nicely kneeling in front of me.

the same applies to "visa waiver" versus "visa on arrival". when my old auntie visited me a couple of years ago and asked me whether she has to apply for a visa i did not tell her "no worries Auntie, you get a visa waiver stamp on arrival" i simply told her "you get your visa stamp in your passport on arrival".

definition of visa: an official marking or stamp in a passport that allows someone to enter, transit or leave a country.

i will rescind my claim if somebody publishes a stamp in a passport which says "waiver".

by the way, the page in my passport with the "extension" stamp does not say anything about "extension" but bears an additional stamp which says "Retirement", id est using the international definition of "visa" (see above) that page shows a retirement visa.

Your Honour, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury...

i rest my case... and go fishing.

[thepool]

Last time I renewed my extension an insistent gentleman was telling the immigration officer a "retirement visa" was required. The officer responded by telling the gent he would have to go back to his country if a visa was needed!

[pineconehead]

@ lopburi3; thanks I think I've figured that out by now. I thought there would have been more changes over the years with all the political upheaval that Thailand has experienced.

[moe666]

I cannot believe it over ten years without a major change, I mean at least once a month someone posts about the rules changing constantly and that there is no way to tell what will be asked for next.

[moe666]

@ lopburi3; thanks I think I've figured that out by now. I thought there would have been more changes over the years with all the political upheaval that Thailand has experienced.

What political upheaval same people in charge that were there in 2006

[Sophon]

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it is quite reasonable to call it a "duck".

based on the same assumption i call my yearly "extension" a "one year retirement visa" and no smartàss hairsplitter will change my mind even if he asks nicely kneeling in front of me.

the same applies to "visa waiver" versus "visa on arrival". when my old auntie visited me a couple of years ago and asked me whether she has to apply for a visa i did not tell her "no worries Auntie, you get a visa waiver stamp on arrival" i simply told her "you get your visa stamp in your passport on arrival".

definition of visa: an official marking or stamp in a passport that allows someone to enter, transit or leave a country.

i will rescind my claim if somebody publishes a stamp in a passport which says "waiver".

by the way, the page in my passport with the "extension" stamp does not say anything about "extension" but bears an additional stamp which says "Retirement", id est using the international definition of "visa" (see above) that page shows a retirement visa.

Your Honour, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury...

i rest my case... and go fishing.

I think you just proved the oppositions case . An extension based on retirement allows you to stay in Thailand, not to "enter, transit or leave";

• To enter you need a visa, meet the requirements for visa exempt entry, or if you already has a permission to stay in Thailand (extension or otherwise) you need to have protected that permission to stay with a re-entry permit. In that case it's the re-entry permit that allows you to travel to/enter Thailand.
• To transit Thailand you (depending on circumstances) either need the same as to enter, or if you stay in the transit area you probably don't need anything.
• Unless you are involved in some criminal/civil case you are free to leave Thailand at any time (whether you are on an extension or not). If you want to protect your retirement extension (yes, that is what it is) then you again need a re-entry permit.

And I bet the stamp in your passport that doesn't say "extension" doesn't say "visa" either, so to claim it must be a visa just because such a thing as a retirement visa exists elsewhere in the world is a pretty flawed argument.

Sophon

[lopburi3]

by the way, the page in my passport with the "extension" stamp does not say anything about "extension" but bears an additional stamp which says "Retirement", id est using the international definition of "visa" (see above) that page shows a retirement visa.

Your one year extensions do not say "extension of stay"? Mine sure do. And the visa exempt entry do not say "TR" or "NON" if they are not for tourist visa or non immigrant visa entry so not sure of your logic beyond the duck is a duck and can understand calling the extension a visa but in fact it is not and there is a visa used for retirement called long stay so it becomes very confusing when we mix up that type of entry with an immigration extension of stay so being a bit of a hairsplitter is a good thing at times or the wrong information may be provided. And believe you have been known to be a bit of a hairsplitter at times?