American expats with bank accounts

[maewang99]

Business World has an article related to the new law on bank accounts, which applies to Thai banks as well.

there's a big penalty on Thai banks that don't get it right.

anyone know about Bangkok Bank in particular?

I'm sure they are on top of it but June is not far away.

so I am curious.....

www.bworldline.com

Waivers to be sought from expats given US tax law

Posted March 6, 2014

Edited March 7, 2014 by maewang99
Link to article fixed

[Pib]

Been talked about a lot in other threads over the last year to include very recently. So far Thai banks are not turning away Americans, especially Bangkok Bank. Now, we've heard a few stories where people thought they we refused a bank acct just because they were American but that is doubtful the actual reason...and I saw one recent post where a Thai bank (not Bangkok Bank) asked the American to come in a fill out a few additional IRS related forms. Heck, I've opened several Bangkok Bank accounts over the last six months, with one opening occurring in December. Being an American made zero difference.

[Jingthing]

There was a problem with the link, so here it is again:

http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php?section=TopStory&title=Waivers-to-be-sought-from-expats-given-US-tax-law&id=84384

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That BW article is about the state of things in the Phils, which isn't the same as Thailand. It sounds like the waivers they're discussing would be American bank customers there waiving their rights to privacy under the PH banking secrecy law, and thus allowing the PH authorities to share their info with the U.S. govt.

Here, it's likely to get worked out as some broad-based approach, either through a US-Thailand tax agreement or some kind of joint banks approach orchestrated by the Thailand Bankers Assn.

Mine was the post Pib referred to above where I recently got a notification letter from Standard Chartered Bank giving a deadline for all their U.S. citizen account holders to submit their SSN and various other info, along with amended account terms that specifically allow SC to share financial information with foreign taxing authorities, and also to withhold or seize funds.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/681569-thai-govt-approves-tax-law-negotiations-with-us/?p=7503901

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/681569-thai-govt-approves-tax-law-negotiations-with-us/?p=7508387

I'm assuming that was because Standard Chartered has more of a presence in the U.S. than most other Thai banks, and probably has registered with the IRS as a foreign financial institution, and thus is moving to comply with the FATCA regs.

Edited March 7, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

I'm sure "if" most Thai banks decide they need to ask for additional documentation, they'll wait till the very last minute to ask along with a short deadline to get the docs returned. TIT.

[Suradit69]

I'm sure "if" most Thai banks decide they need to ask for additional documentation, they'll wait till the very last minute to ask along with a short deadline to get the docs returned. TIT.

TIT

No it's not TIT since it hasn't happened in Thailand. It's happened in your imagination like most of the things that set off the ear-rattling whining and moaning here at the Farang Fantasy Factory.

[Jingthing]

No, something is going to change here with Americans and Thai banks. You can take that to the bank. This is an international thing. There is no way out. Foreign banks cooperate (and maybe need to ask stuff of us) or we lose our accounts. Don't act like this isn't a thing. It's a thing. I wish it was more clear sooner than later that we see how this shakes out, both Thai nationally (but where's the Thai government now?) and also bank by bank. Right now, this is a period of uncertainty.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

AFAIK, in the past whenever I opened a Thai bank account, they never asked me for my U.S. SSN, and I don't believe I ever provided it to them in any form. They did get my passport copy and number, of course.

But one's SSN is the key to the taxation kingdom for Americans. So that's what the Thai banks are going to end up demanding from us US accountholders at some point, one way or another. Just like Standard Chartered demanded of U.S. accountholders in their recent letter.

[Naam]

registering

with the IRS as a foreign financial institution

and complying with the demands of the IRS are two different pairs of shoes

Edited March 8, 2014 by Naam

[Pib]

I'm sure "if" most Thai banks decide they need to ask for additional documentation, they'll wait till the very last minute to ask along with a short deadline to get the docs returned. TIT.

TIT

No it's not TIT since it hasn't happened in Thailand. It's happened in your imagination like most of the things that set off the ear-rattling whining and moaning here at the Farang Fantasy Factory.

Wow...get that nerve treated...it sure is sensitive.

[JimGant]

AFAIK, in the past whenever I opened a Thai bank account, they never asked me for my U.S. SSN, and I don't believe I ever provided it to them in any form. They did get my passport copy and number, of course.

Yes. And Standard Chartered bank, regardless of account size (you mentioned your account was piddly) is apparently going to query every account holder that has FATCA-defined US Person "indicia." And, obviously, having a US passport number against your account is a no brainer for them to query about your US connection. And, asking for a W-9 (where, among other things, they'll get your SSN), as well as other particulars, is right down the IRS guideline for ascertaining info on US persons.

Getting ahead of the game, with no IGA yet, would seem smart -- since they've got to fish or cut bait -- IGA or no IGA -- before the 1Jul14 deadline.

But, another bank, with a large US footprint, is Bangkok Bank. Why aren't they currently smoking out US persons? Well, maybe because of this:

De Minimis Account Rules. Note, unless the Participating FFI elects otherwise, an account is a non-US account if (i) the account is a depository account; (ii) each holder of such account is a natural person; and (iii) the balance or value of such account as of the end of the calendar year preceding the effective date of the FFI's Agreement does not exceed $50,000 (or the equivalent in foreign currency). So too, unless a Participating FFI elects otherwise, an account of a natural person, such as a securities account, is a non-US account if the balance or value of the account as of the end of the calendar year preceding the effective date of the FFI's FFI Agreement does not exceed $50,000 (or the equivalent in foreign currency).

Sure, they too have tons of "indicia" (primarily US passport data) that indicates US persons. But plug in just one more data element against these folks, namely account balance on Dec 31, 2013, and ipso presto, a tiny few with balances over $50,000. Thus, I haven't gotten a letter from Bangkok Bank asking for my W-9 data. And probably neither has anyone else reading this.

Bangkok Bank is saving a lot in paper and processing that, apparently, Standard Chartered has determined is not in their interest. Maybe their worldwide presence (and the need to amalgamate all accounts of the US person to observe the $50k threshold) is a factor. Also, I read somewhere that it might be easier to report all US persons, regardless of the $50k threshold, due to other factors, such as accounting for accounts opened, or closed mid year, with greater than $50k.

Anyway, maybe Bangkok Bank will be catching up with Standard Chartered in the near future. Or maybe not. No big deal either way.

For sure, after July 1, 2014, opening a new account will certainly have some additional questions about your US connection. Ho hum.