Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[NeverSure]

Tony Abbott has been spending a lot of time in Beijing.

Reinforcing Australia's commitment to finding the plane?

Most of the passengers were PRC but Beijing doesn't appear to be doing a lot.

So why does Abbott have to go on his knees?

PRC-Malaysian problem in my view. Let them sort it.

In the meantime, most normal people will continue to fly Boeings with confidence but not out of KL on Malaysian Airlines.

I don't see it as just a PRC-Malaysian issue. There were 3 or 4 Americans on that plane which I believe would usually bring America out in force.

There were other nationalities too. Yet those countries seem silent. I don't see the effort in or above the ocean.

It smells to me as if they know where it is and are working on getting it back.

I don't think that's the case.

Australia has spent $60 Million on the search (that they're admitting to, and any more would make the natives uneasy). Why spend anything to continue a charade. They would be better off just saying the whereabouts is unknown, but a lot of avenues are being explored in an attempt to locate it.

The Americans have had quite a presence there as I read it earlier.

Initially there was quite the search. Then the major nations including China seemed to go silent on it. There has never been one speck of debris found via plane, ship, or satellite which I find impossible.

If the major powers had claims that it was hijacked and demands for money, and at the same time it seemed like there were pings from the plane in the ocean, of course both would be investigated.

Now we have no pings and probably never did, and no debris. It's a lot easier to believe that it landed somewhere and is in a hanger. Bin Laden was hiding in plain sight in a house right across from the main entrance to an Afghan military installation. No one dropped a dime on him for years, even thought there was a big cash reward on his head.

Also I wouldn't just look at the pilots. There may have been hijackers on board.

[F4UCorsair]

Tony Abbott has been spending a lot of time in Beijing.

Reinforcing Australia's commitment to finding the plane?

Most of the passengers were PRC but Beijing doesn't appear to be doing a lot.

So why does Abbott have to go on his knees?

PRC-Malaysian problem in my view. Let them sort it.

In the meantime, most normal people will continue to fly Boeings with confidence but not out of KL on Malaysian Airlines.

I don't see it as just a PRC-Malaysian issue. There were 3 or 4 Americans on that plane which I believe would usually bring America out in force.

There were other nationalities too. Yet those countries seem silent. I don't see the effort in or above the ocean.

It smells to me as if they know where it is and are working on getting it back.

I don't think that's the case.

Australia has spent $60 Million on the search (that they're admitting to, and any more would make the natives uneasy). Why spend anything to continue a charade. They would be better off just saying the whereabouts is unknown, but a lot of avenues are being explored in an attempt to locate it.

The Americans have had quite a presence there as I read it earlier.

Initially there was quite the search. Then the major nations including China seemed to go silent on it. There has never been one speck of debris found via plane, ship, or satellite which I find impossible.

If the major powers had claims that it was hijacked and demands for money, and at the same time it seemed like there were pings from the plane in the ocean, of course both would be investigated.

Now we have no pings and probably never did, and no debris. It's a lot easier to believe that it landed somewhere and is in a hanger. Bin Laden was hiding in plain sight in a house right across from the main entrance to an Afghan military installation. No one dropped a dime on him for years, even thought there was a big cash reward on his head.

Also I wouldn't just look at the pilots. There may have been hijackers on board.

A lot easier to believe it's in a hangar somewhere, but this has received a LOT of publicity, so almost impossible to believe that nothing would have been reported by now.

Bin Laden wasn't known/recognized by anybody in the area, and his actual whereabouts was only known to those in the compound and couriers who were keeping in touch with the outside world with new simcards almost every time they communicated, and from remote locations. What I found more amazing about that was that those confidants didn't drop a bucket on him early on, when the $50 Million was put on his head by the US. That's a lot of loot in anybody's language, and could buy a lot of air travel and cosmetic surgery for the informer. You could only think that the misdirected idiots were more committed to the cause of islam than being rich?? But I digress....sorry.

Hijackers are a possibility, but a lot of knowledge and skill would be necessary to keep it in the air. It's not like Flight Sim on the home computer. Recall how one of the aircraft almost missed one of the twin towers, and the hijacker did have considerable simulator time practising. Putting a big aircraft on the water without significant breakup would be almost impossible for even a skilled pilot, so for a hijacker (presuming he wasn't a professional pilot with considerable 777 time) I couldn't see that happening.

It's been reported that 'pings' to the Inmarsat satellite indicated that MH370 suffered fuel exhaustion abeam Geraldton in Western Australia, so on the best information available, it's down that way, somewhere.Additionally, anybody flying it, without considerable skill would have even less chance of putting it down successfully without power.

Edited May 13, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[Carmine6]

Do we know for sure that the plane turned West, then South?

I mean, 100% totally sure, dead certain?

No. Not at all. They do seem certain that it turned West.

Thai radar confirmed the Malaysian radar's tracking. If the plane didn't turn back, what did Thai radar pick up? Also, Vietnam was looking for the plane, so would they have not noticed an unidentified plane headed that way? Unless they went east and around. Though that plane headed to Tokyo made partial voice contact.

That doesn't rule out that it headed toward India, then up over Bangladesh or Myanmar.

Really need Inmarsat to release the hourly arcs, so both the possible north and south routes could be mapped. They ruled out the northern arc, but no one outside the direct investigators has checked their calculations. The arcs should be easy to non-controversial. Everyone understands that they could measure distance by the time it took for a signal reply from the plane to satellite.

[JesseFrank]

Do we know for sure that the plane turned West, then South?

I mean, 100% totally sure, dead certain?

No. Not at all. They do seem certain that it turned West.

Thai radar confirmed the Malaysian radar's tracking. If the plane didn't turn back, what did Thai radar pick up? Also, Vietnam was looking for the plane, so would they have not noticed an unidentified plane headed that way? Unless they went east and around. Though that plane headed to Tokyo made partial voice contact.

That doesn't rule out that it headed toward India, then up over Bangladesh or Myanmar.

Really need Inmarsat to release the hourly arcs, so both the possible north and south routes could be mapped. They ruled out the northern arc, but no one outside the direct investigators has checked their calculations. The arcs should be easy to non-controversial. Everyone understands that they could measure distance by the time it took for a signal reply from the plane to satellite.

Also, Vietnam was looking for the plane, so would they have not noticed an unidentified plane headed that way?

Nobody was looking for the plane, because it wasn't considered missing until it didn't arrive at it's destination.

[NeverSure]

I don't think that's the case.

Australia has spent $60 Million on the search (that they're admitting to, and any more would make the natives uneasy). Why spend anything to continue a charade. They would be better off just saying the whereabouts is unknown, but a lot of avenues are being explored in an attempt to locate it.

The Americans have had quite a presence there as I read it earlier.

Initially there was quite the search. Then the major nations including China seemed to go silent on it. There has never been one speck of debris found via plane, ship, or satellite which I find impossible.

If the major powers had claims that it was hijacked and demands for money, and at the same time it seemed like there were pings from the plane in the ocean, of course both would be investigated.

Now we have no pings and probably never did, and no debris. It's a lot easier to believe that it landed somewhere and is in a hanger. Bin Laden was hiding in plain sight in a house right across from the main entrance to an Afghan military installation. No one dropped a dime on him for years, even thought there was a big cash reward on his head.

Also I wouldn't just look at the pilots. There may have been hijackers on board.

A lot easier to believe it's in a hangar somewhere, but this has received a LOT of publicity, so almost impossible to believe that nothing would have been reported by now.

Bin Laden wasn't known/recognized by anybody in the area, and his actual whereabouts was only known to those in the compound and couriers who were keeping in touch with the outside world with new simcards almost every time they communicated, and from remote locations. What I found more amazing about that was that those confidants didn't drop a bucket on him early on, when the $50 Million was put on his head by the US. That's a lot of loot in anybody's language, and could buy a lot of air travel and cosmetic surgery for the informer. You could only think that the misdirected idiots were more committed to the cause of islam than being rich?? But I digress....sorry.

-snip-

Bin Laden was 6 feet 4 inches (193 cm?) tall in a land of short people. He also had a very distinctive look. His father is/was one of the wealthiest men in Saudi Arabia and Bin Laden was famous.

With $50 million and an promise of security in the US promised to anyone who'd out him, IMHO it could only have been the religious loyalty and perhaps outright fear for themselves and their families of those in the region that saved him for so long.

I sincerely believe that he was just as hard to hide as a 777 would be in a hanger in the right place.

[Carmine6]

Do we know for sure that the plane turned West, then South?

I mean, 100% totally sure, dead certain?

No. Not at all. They do seem certain that it turned West.

Thai radar confirmed the Malaysian radar's tracking. If the plane didn't turn back, what did Thai radar pick up? Also, Vietnam was looking for the plane, so would they have not noticed an unidentified plane headed that way? Unless they went east and around. Though that plane headed to Tokyo made partial voice contact.

That doesn't rule out that it headed toward India, then up over Bangladesh or Myanmar.

Really need Inmarsat to release the hourly arcs, so both the possible north and south routes could be mapped. They ruled out the northern arc, but no one outside the direct investigators has checked their calculations. The arcs should be easy to non-controversial. Everyone understands that they could measure distance by the time it took for a signal reply from the plane to satellite.

Also, Vietnam was looking for the plane, so would they have not noticed an unidentified plane headed that way?

Nobody was looking for the plane, because it wasn't considered missing until it didn't arrive at it's destination.

I don't mean ships and aircraft, I mean the Vietnamese were the ones who notified Malaysian ATC at 1:38AM that the plane had not checked in, and also had not been detected on radar. They asked planes in the area to try to make contact as well.

[P45Mustang]

I sincerely believe that he was just as hard to hide as a 777 would be in a hanger in the right place.

I agree totally.

Problem is Inmarsat south arc being chosen to look rather than north arc.

So search team either got confidence based on information, or they've got it wrong, or the efforts in the South Indian Ocean are token.

They are not confident are they?

[P45Mustang]

BTW. Very difficult to search north arc, because it would be a political hot potato.

'What have you done with our plane.'?

"We know nothing. And how dare you suggest we have hijacked it."

[P45Mustang]

It would not surprise me if it is in a hanger in 'stan land.

[davidstipek]

Do we know for sure that the plane turned West, then South?

I mean, 100% totally sure, dead certain?

No. Not at all. They do seem certain that it turned West.

Thai radar confirmed the Malaysian radar's tracking. If the plane didn't turn back, what did Thai radar pick up? Also, Vietnam was looking for the plane, so would they have not noticed an unidentified plane headed that way? Unless they went east and around. Though that plane headed to Tokyo made partial voice contact.

That doesn't rule out that it headed toward India, then up over Bangladesh or Myanmar.

Really need Inmarsat to release the hourly arcs, so both the possible north and south routes could be mapped. They ruled out the northern arc, but no one outside the direct investigators has checked their calculations. The arcs should be easy to non-controversial. Everyone understands that they could measure distance by the time it took for a signal reply from the plane to satellite.

Nobody was looking for the plane, because it wasn't considered missing until it didn't arrive at its destination.

Taking this one set at a time:

No one was looking for until pressured and backed against the wall and asked where is MHA370? Then the flood of made-up answers to pass then blame started.

Everyone looks at Primary Radar... PERIOD! Unless there is issue then they go back and look at 2Secondary readouts. No One saw anything until way after their 24 hrs period, as they did not know anything was recorded anywhere! Malaysian Military didn’t offer any clues until pressed to do so. Then same with Thailand.... I do not for a second believe that Thailand saw anything as they were not using Secondary Radar and of course didn't want to invoke any lax is there security... So of Course they said it was tracked... On Primary Radar??? Don't think so!!!

Vietnam is the only country to question the where abouts of MHA370... as Malaysia had washed their hands of Aircraft when they thought they had signed her over to Vietnam Controllers. Vietnam did not show MHA370 on Radar confirming they were not using Secondary... Only Primary Radar! Or they could have told and tell us now which direction Aircraft went... they can't...

Even when Vietnam reported to Malaysian Air Controllers that they did not have MHA370... it was missing, Malaysian Controllers did not want to get involved as they said Plane was in Vietnam Airspace and not their concern!! ???

All anyone know is that where MHA370 was on Radar the exact moment it disappeared. Whether it went East or West? No actual fact proving either.

What was the known fact that there was an AWAC in South China Sea before during and after disappearance of MHA370? Actually flying to east at same LONGATUDE... They both disappeared on Radar at same time with 2 other High-speed aircraft. The other Aircraft (2) returned to display. When checking Indonesian Flight records for their Aircraft. Posing as Freighter, AWAC was using a Bogus Flight ID. It never returned to Radar screen but another Flight ID did... (Go figure) I have recorded this time frame and studied intensely. Being a Controller in Military I know what I am looking at! So don't try to contradict... won't happen...ok?

I repeat when MHA370 went missing "No One was looking.... NO ONE!!" Even when asked where was their flight? As it did not check in... Still no looking on Malaysia's Part... Wasn't in their Air Space... not concerned!! Did Vietnam confirm Secondary Radar for disappearance??

Next Issue: Inmarsat is only a Communications Sat, Period! It can receive signals... relay to humans to decipher and decode but that is all. We can time the bounce of ping back to source and deduct between Pings speed and distance of source. It cannot tell us if route is North or South of equator...Period!!

Whatever signal was received if receiver and sender were it opposite Hemispheres would have been Mirrored (Magnetic Poles in relation to signals received) Once Aircraft passed Equator Polarity of signal would have reversed!!

If there was no change in signal received by Inmarsat.... It is Impossible for MHA370 to be found anywhere South of Equator. "No rebuttal!!" If there was then that is where she rests...

As a return to square one in Search I would take the time to plot the Arc in Northern Hemisphere and correlate the Pings graphically to it... If end result is in a so Called "HOT ZONE" all the more reason to do intensive flyovers by the remaining U2 we have available. If protested By Governing Body of Land involved. Countries Involved need to send send Troops to investigate... as a joint search effort!

At this point any country that refuses to open doors to Search Effort should be face with sanctions by Countries Involved... "Let us look for Closures for Families related to victims on MHA370"

Yes at that time Vietnam... was looking for MHA370... "As they said it, disappeared from our Radar!" Confirming they were not using as Backup... Secondary Radar!!

Malaysia had no clue plane turned west until Military Radar Site was questioned; the first answer was "It was not on Radar Screen... we never see... Then Command Center decided to check Secondary Radar... there was a Blip at times... Still Malaysia denied MHA370 was in their airspace... Against the wall they finally to save face said "Maybe". Not to be out done later after direct questioning Thailand said they saw also... really?? Or not to be outdone... should be tapes of that can be displayed to correct investigative personnel to prove... But I don't think Thailand uses Secondary Radar as backup unless emergency... Too expensive! Cuts profits in political Pockets...

Again it should be noted that every time Vietnam tried to submit prospective finding... Malaysia said "NO!" cannot be... Even to the fact that they quit the Search while still in South China Sea. Other Nations succeeded in getting them to return.

Edited May 13, 2014 by davidstipek

[P45Mustang]

So what is your conclusion?

Somewhere on the Inmarsat north arc or elsewhere?

If on the north arc I think it will be extremely difficult to do an effective search for political reasons, plus if it is hidden, covert searching may not be too productive either.

[canuckamuck]

Once a plane is in a hangar, it just needs a quick coat of paint and a new sticker job and it can hide in plane sight. See what I did there.

[davidstipek]

So what is your conclusion?

Somewhere on the Inmarsat north arc or elsewhere?

If on the north arc I think it will be extremely difficult to do an effective search for political reasons, plus if it is hidden, covert searching may not be too productive either.

I am like everyone else... Don't know where it is either.

But I think we need to look! If it is still over water then another search area. If it is over land and in an area of high risk, an open Idea to work at looking into....

All Nations involved here have means to snoop without raising alams.....

Even if it got a quick coat of paint and new stickers... Once it was fired up Boeing would know were Engines are... Then there would be a move in the right direction for All the Major Countries involved to go look and retreive...

What Country left in the World is going to Say no to China... USA... France... Austrailia... etc, Even at this point Russia could be included. What freinds would they have left to turn to that have any clout that would risk rebutting those involved. Even if we include even Nation and those involved in search, I thinksaying Northern search would be a disaster for Political Reasons is a risk needed to be taken. Thus refusing because it would be a Disaster no one would want to risk... Saying a search here Is not Politically and Humianly Correct was case in point... These are options needed to be taken for Correct Closier. This would put the rate of respect on every Nation Involved high in not only History, but would show the Rest of the World... "Do something like this again...!" See the wrath you will cause to fall upon you! Don't think it would happen again!!

I don't believe it is in this area, but at this point... I don't think anyone believes it is in the Southern Search either....

I think we need to know if they float arc to North what results would be! Remember they said they were going to leave no options unturned.. every rock was going to be examined...

[davidstipek]

Also as for the "Quick Coat of Paint" easy to hide? Flight ID's are not.... If this is the case inpoint. Any airport that has new Aircraft or One that does not match all ID requirements either refused Landing or held in Area of Security For Interpol and All the Federal Agency's to search. Purchase, Registration, Links to Rolls Royce, Boeing... kind of hard to change all this data and get it flawless I would think... Once Aircraft is in fight... I think it would be comandeered and forced to Land By Military Aircraft.... or Fired upon until they did as Ordered even to the point of inflicking some damage inflight to force compliance!

[P45Mustang]

Once a plane is in a hangar, it just needs a quick coat of paint and a new sticker job and it can hide in plane sight. See what I did there.

Motive?

[boomerangutang]

Once a plane is in a hangar, it just needs a quick coat of paint and a new sticker job and it can hide in plane sight. See what I did there.

Motive?

...in plain sight

...in plane site

motive? To use plane for nefarious purpose. But I'm not behind that theory. I still think suicide/mass murder - then skillful ditching at sea with least amount of debris as possible.

[P45Mustang]

I'm in two minds.

Not sure whether to go north or south.

Do we know what insights have been gained from people close to the pilot?

Wife/partner?

South route suggests pilot culpable. North route suggests pilot culpable/complicit or hijacked.

[NeverSure]

Motive? Maybe just money. Maybe the plane and passengers (hostages) are in a hanger and negotiations are in progress.

Heck, I don't know. It just doesn't seem like the major powers think it's in the ocean or I believe the search would still be massive.

[JetsetBkk]

I sincerely believe that he was just as hard to hide as a 777 would be in a hanger in the right place.

I agree totally.

Problem is Inmarsat south arc being chosen to look rather than north arc.

<snip>

What do you mean "chosen"?

This is old news. Please keep up.

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/routine-data-analysis-helped-pinpoint-mh370s-path

[Carmine6]

I sincerely believe that he was just as hard to hide as a 777 would be in a hanger in the right place.

I agree totally.

Problem is Inmarsat south arc being chosen to look rather than north arc.

<snip>

What do you mean "chosen"?

This is old news. Please keep up.

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/routine-data-analysis-helped-pinpoint-mh370s-path

I believe the plane went south and went down around where they have said. However I can only base that on what's been released, and their sudden announcements that they could be in completely the wrong area make me wonder how confident they are in what they've done.

I've read through some explanations, and watched interviews, and some youtube videos trying to explain what they did, and I can not make out how there's only one possible path. Except for elimination due to impossible or unlikely speed or maneuvering to create one set of arcs. Or if there is something else available, like angle of the signal reaching the satellite, as I've seen mentioned, then it might eliminate one route due to implausible altitudes at certain points. Also, the satellite does a small figure 8 so isn't in the same spot over the earth over time, which might eliminate one route in conjunction with other info.

But they have not given any such reason to exclude one set. Even that article you linked doesn't say why the northern path was not possible. They just seem to have a good match going south. Plus I suspect the flight path in the early hours matches better if they went south. But that's not a definitive reason to rule out north.

“What we discovered and what we passed to the investigation ... is that the southern path predicted fits very well with the path that’s been indicated by our pings,” McLaughlin says. “To all intents and purposes, there’s no way [the aircraft] went north.”

If the only two data pieces available are distance from the satellite, and relative speed toward or away the satellite, there can not only be one possible set of arcs. If people were given distances from a certain point and relative speed to that arc at each hourly interval, it should be possible to draw possible flight paths to match that information going north as well as south. Say arc 4 is 1,000 miles out, and the plane was going 100 mph away. Given the speeds the plane can do, that constrains the possible heading at that moment. Then it has to get to arc 5 an hour later, and then match a certain range of headings at that point.

I suspect the northern route takes extreme changes in speed or maneuvering to reach each arc at the necessary headings, while the southern one only requires a straighter, consistent speed and heading to make it to each arc and at a certain heading. But I don't know this for sure as there's been no arcs released other than the last one. The arcs on the northern route have to reach over many of the 'stans, which is probably why they've never been released. Way too much fodder for any manner of theories.

[wooloomooloo]

Maybe the plane and passengers (hostages) are in a hanger and negotiations are in progress.

I hope they've got a canteen for them where they can eat, socialise and play chess and stuff. I'd be pretty bored after two months of this lark.

[F4UCorsair]

Also, Vietnam was looking for the plane, so would they have not noticed an unidentified plane headed that way?

Nobody was looking for the plane, because it wasn't considered missing until it didn't arrive at it's destination.

You don't understand the terminology Jesse, and it may have been a little ambiguous.

You're right in that nobody was 'looking' for the aircraft until after it was reported missing, but in this sense, 'looking' means 'expecting' it to pop up on radar, so Vietnam was expecting/looking for the aircraft, but didn't see it.

[canuckamuck]

Once a plane is in a hangar, it just needs a quick coat of paint and a new sticker job and it can hide in plane sight. See what I did there.

Motive?

You have to first determine who took it. If it was a black ops mission, they wouldn't keep the plane. they would only need to hide the plane until it could be broken down into smaller bits for disposal or until it could be scuttled and sunk at sea. It is possible a quick coat of paint would give them time to let the story cool down.

If it was an Islamist or other terror group, the plane itself may have been the target, so they would find a way to hide it until they needed it. Assuming the plane would be used for a further crime.

Both ideas are a bit out there, but this whole story is bizarre from the beginning so who knows.

[canman]

I sincerely believe that he was just as hard to hide as a 777 would be in a hanger in the right place.

I agree totally.

Problem is Inmarsat south arc being chosen to look rather than north arc.

<snip>

What do you mean "chosen"?

This is old news. Please keep up.

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/routine-data-analysis-helped-pinpoint-mh370s-path

I believe the plane went south and went down around where they have said. However I can only base that on what's been released, and their sudden announcements that they could be in completely the wrong area make me wonder how confident they are in what they've done.

I've read through some explanations, and watched interviews, and some youtube videos trying to explain what they did, and I can not make out how there's only one possible path. Except for elimination due to impossible or unlikely speed or maneuvering to create one set of arcs. Or if there is something else available, like angle of the signal reaching the satellite, as I've seen mentioned, then it might eliminate one route due to implausible altitudes at certain points. Also, the satellite does a small figure 8 so isn't in the same spot over the earth over time, which might eliminate one route in conjunction with other info.

But they have not given any such reason to exclude one set. Even that article you linked doesn't say why the northern path was not possible. They just seem to have a good match going south. Plus I suspect the flight path in the early hours matches better if they went south. But that's not a definitive reason to rule out north.

“What we discovered and what we passed to the investigation ... is that the southern path predicted fits very well with the path that’s been indicated by our pings,” McLaughlin says. “To all intents and purposes, there’s no way [the aircraft] went north.”

If the only two data pieces available are distance from the satellite, and relative speed toward or away the satellite, there can not only be one possible set of arcs. If people were given distances from a certain point and relative speed to that arc at each hourly interval, it should be possible to draw possible flight paths to match that information going north as well as south. Say arc 4 is 1,000 miles out, and the plane was going 100 mph away. Given the speeds the plane can do, that constrains the possible heading at that moment. Then it has to get to arc 5 an hour later, and then match a certain range of headings at that point.

I suspect the northern route takes extreme changes in speed or maneuvering to reach each arc at the necessary headings, while the southern one only requires a straighter, consistent speed and heading to make it to each arc and at a certain heading. But I don't know this for sure as there's been no arcs released other than the last one. The arcs on the northern route have to reach over many of the 'stans, which is probably why they've never been released. Way too much fodder for any manner of theories.

"Also, the satellite does a small figure 8"

Are you sure about that? I find that hard to believe as this would mean constant use of fuel and a short life for the satellite I would have thought? Do you have a reference for this figure 8 movement?

[NeverSure]

"Also, the satellite does a small figure 8"

Are you sure about that? I find that hard to believe as this would mean constant use of fuel and a short life for the satellite I would have thought? Do you have a reference for this figure 8 movement?

Yeah, it does. It's hard to grasp. It does an analemma due somehow to its orbit against the rotation of the earth. LINK

It was very hard for me at first to understand why the shortest route between Madrid and New York is an arc up over Greenland rather than what would seem like a straight line, but it's also true. Go up over Greenland.

This analemma is the large part of why I have no faith in that satellite's data, S vs N hemisphere.

[Carmine6]

"Also, the satellite does a small figure 8"

Are you sure about that? I find that hard to believe as this would mean constant use of fuel and a short life for the satellite I would have thought? Do you have a reference for this figure 8 movement?

First saw it here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/709464-missing-malaysia-airlines-jet-carrying-239-triggers-southeast-asia-search/?p=7644077

Then I read through the company's annual report where I thought I saw that confirmed. But now that I check back at their website, they say geostationary, and also geosynchronous. So it seems like they are geostationary, to the extent that's physically possible.

I think a satellite doesn't require any energy to trace an analemma, but it is just a function of the earth's motion. Scroll down on this article and it says:

No real satellite is exactly geostationary, so real ones trace small analemmas in the sky.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma

[F4UCorsair]

Once a plane is in a hangar, it just needs a quick coat of paint and a new sticker job and it can hide in plane sight. See what I did there.

Motive?

You have to first determine who took it. If it was a black ops mission, they wouldn't keep the plane. they would only need to hide the plane until it could be broken down into smaller bits for disposal or until it could be scuttled and sunk at sea. It is possible a quick coat of paint would give them time to let the story cool down.

If it was an Islamist or other terror group, the plane itself may have been the target, so they would find a way to hide it until they needed it. Assuming the plane would be used for a further crime.

Both ideas are a bit out there, but this whole story is bizarre from the beginning so who knows.

There has been no terrorist group who have claimed responsibility though, something they love doing, in fact a couple have specifically said they'd have loved to have done it but didn't, so my guess it would not be that scenario, but as I've said before...who knows?

I do agree that the whole story is bizarre, in the extreme.

Edited May 14, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[boomerangutang]

Is there any pressure (by int'l community?) on Malaysian authorities to dig deeper?

Their actions indicate doing as little as possible and hoping the issue will blow away. Or, like Mahathir, throw out a red herring, like "It's Boeing's fault."

It's crystal clear that Malaysian officialdom is doing all it can to divert blame from itself or the airline or its pilot and staff.

For farang investigators it would be; "Leave no stone unturned." For Malaysian officials, it's "Leave all stones flat on the ground."

[canuckamuck]

I agree that it doesn't seem to be a terrorist thing because, as you said, no one is bragging about it. Although, if the mission is not yet complete, they would be crazy to draw attention to themselves.

The main reason I don't think it was a terror group, is that airplanes are not that hard to get; and you don't need a 777 from Malaysia to deliver a bomb or crash into a building. Lots of ancient 747's about in the Stans, and even more 737's and other older passenger jets. It seems to me they picked a very complicated target, unless of course the pilot was in on it. And that changes everything.

In the scenario where the pilot or some crew was involved, we have to ask, was it successful, or did it go horribly wrong.

It is hard to scratch these things off the list, and so it goes, and we get no closer to the plane itself.

[Chicog]

The fact that an airline is doing it, and Immigration maybe isn't, will surely embarrass several governments into action I think. Expect longer queues at Swampy coming soon.

AirAsia to enhance aviation security with Interpol checks

14 May, 2014

Budget airline AirAsia says it will become the first carrier to check its passengers' passports against Interpol's database of stolen and lost travel documents.

The Kuala Lumpur-based airline said on Tuesday it will begin implementing the screening this month as part of its effort to enhance aviation security in the aftermath of the disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines jet on March 8.

http://www.travelweekly.com.au/news/airasia-to-do-interpol-checks?

Edited May 14, 2014 by Chicog