Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[maccastime]

I read yesterday that a lad working on a rig had spotted a large plane on fire....have not heard anymore on this?

[draftvader]

I read yesterday that a lad working on a rig had spotted a large plane on fire....have not heard anymore on this?

We've all heard a lot of things in the past (nearly) week. The only things it appears that you can take into account are things that have been said by independents and then vociferously denied by Malaysian government officials.

[ignis]

would China want any help from outside ? maybe they do know where the plane is and just send out ideas and help in the opposite directions, while trying to deal with the problem, just asking ?

If the plane did run into technical problems, and did in fact turn back, myself could never see it trying to go back to KL and maybe crash with high lose of life, would more likely [as I posted 1000 odd posts ago] have tried to land at some disused Military airbase, if it did run for another 4 hours then would have landed in first light so could see..

Can not all the Tech/Sats/spy things about not look at all the old disused air bases and see if a plane is there ?

Of course we all have our own thoughts and ideas

[draftvader]

would China want any help from outside ? maybe they do know where the plane is and just send out ideas and help in the opposite directions, while trying to deal with the problem, just asking ?

If the plane did run into technical problems, and did in fact turn back, myself could never see it trying to go back to KL and maybe crash with high lose of life, would more likely [as I posted 1000 odd posts ago] have tried to land at some disused Military airbase, if it did run for another 4 hours then would have landed in first light so could see..

Can not all the Tech/Sats/spy things about not look at all the old disused air bases and see if a plane is there ?

Of course we all have our own thoughts and ideas

Like them a lot. The funny thing is that China might well want the passengers for the purposes I mooted. GREAT point about the 4 hour flight to land at first light. Might even have been in a holding pattern over an airfield whilst it waited. Would allow for star chart navigation without any GPS, etc and then landing by eyesight.

The problem with the sats is that, if this as well planned as it would have to be for these theories to be right, the plane would have been covered with camo netting ASAP.

[laolover88]

Can not all the Tech/Sats/spy things about not look at all the old disused air bases and see if a plane is there ?

Of course we all have our own thoughts and ideas

Seem to think I said this about unlikely airstrips many hours ago!! Coco islands information fascinating!! Wikipedia tells you most of what

is relevant here, including Chinese SIGINT

[mania]

Earlier reports said it had 7.5 hours of fuel which would take it to Iran. Not speculating, just sayin'.

Does not sound like a "just saying" statement

Otherwise the list of places the plane "could"

fly to on X amount of fuel is quite long.

[draftvader]

Can not all the Tech/Sats/spy things about not look at all the old disused air bases and see if a plane is there ?

Of course we all have our own thoughts and ideas

Seem to think I said this about unlikely airstrips many hours ago!! Coco islands information fascinating!! Wikipedia tells you most of what

is relevant here, including Chinese SIGINT

Yep, pretty sure it was mooted on pprune about 3 days ago (I'm NOT searching through 200+ pages for it though!).

[harrry]

Have you ever known someone to give his wedding ring to his child before a flight.

And recall why they stopped selling flight life insurance at airports in the US.

I hope not...but it is worth investigating. He certainly appeared to have problems.

I think it is common, or used to be, to give a keepsake to young children or a loved one before departing on a long journey. That's probably where the word keepsake came from. Children may find it hard to understand why a parent has gone away, or a parent may want a young child to keep them in mind while away for a long time at a very young age. Seems natural to me.

THe watch yes....the wedding ring I think shows some more. I am just saying that I would investigate it. It may just be he is horribly afraid of flying.

The person went to work to Mongolia. Maybe he was simply afraid of the new country and possible robberies there. We all have some degree of fear of the unknown.

Think yourself going to for example South Sudan. Would you keep gold rings and expensive watch on your hand?

As I said anything is possible...but worthy of investigation.

[draftvader]

Have you ever known someone to give his wedding ring to his child before a flight.

And recall why they stopped selling flight life insurance at airports in the US.

I hope not...but it is worth investigating. He certainly appeared to have problems.

I think it is common, or used to be, to give a keepsake to young children or a loved one before departing on a long journey. That's probably where the word keepsake came from. Children may find it hard to understand why a parent has gone away, or a parent may want a young child to keep them in mind while away for a long time at a very young age. Seems natural to me.

THe watch yes....the wedding ring I think shows some more. I am just saying that I would investigate it. It may just be he is horribly afraid of flying.

The person went to work to Mongolia. Maybe he was simply afraid of the new country and possible robberies there. We all have some degree of fear of the unknown.

Think yourself going to for example South Sudan. Would you keep gold rings and expensive watch on your hand?

I remember my first 24 hours in Ulan Bataar. We were approached by an American chap who told us that we would be physically assaulted and everything stolen as though it were a fact. In 3 weeks we weren't but we didn't venture out far late at night so minimised our risks. It certainly had/has a strong reputation for aggression and it is still "cowboy" land for sure.

[steven100]

Next step is to try the Bermuda Triangle.

This is the asian triangle ....

[jayjayjayjay]

I am beginning to think the comments of the wife of the NewZealand/Australian passenger going to work in Mongolia that he gave his watch and wedding ring to his child in case anything happened are worth investigating. I have never known anyone to do this and it is obvious that the individual was under a lot of strain from his relocatation after the Christchurch earthquake and financial pressures. I hope this is not the case but it is worth considering.

you cannot be serious

It's ok, Harry's on drugs!

[laolover88]

Were it not for the huge concerns over the well being of passengers and crew...........the whole thing does have

some 'gallows humour' about it

The plane will be in Galway in Ireland on St. Patricks's Day, March 17th. You know.."If we had some bread, we couldhave bread and cheese, if we had any cheese""

So in this case:

If you had not started from there, you

would not be here, now; wherever that is."

Surely US/China military satellites know the last co-ordinates of the plane?

Can see no reason for anyone wanting to go to the Coco Islands. If China wanted the plane,

it was on its way to Beijing; if the US wanted the plane it would presumably be now in Diego Garcia or Guam....time

for Auric Goldfinger, Felix Leiter and the white cat to show their hand?

[jayjayjayjay]

Have you ever known someone to give his wedding ring to his child before a flight.

And recall why they stopped selling flight life insurance at airports in the US.

I hope not...but it is worth investigating. He certainly appeared to have problems.

I think it is common, or used to be, to give a keepsake to young children or a loved one before departing on a long journey. That's probably where the word keepsake came from. Children may find it hard to understand why a parent has gone away, or a parent may want a young child to keep them in mind while away for a long time at a very young age. Seems natural to me.

THe watch yes....the wedding ring I think shows some more. I am just saying that I would investigate it. It may just be he is horribly afraid of flying.

The person went to work to Mongolia. Maybe he was simply afraid of the new country and possible robberies there. We all have some degree of fear of the unknown.

Think yourself going to for example South Sudan. Would you keep gold rings and expensive watch on your hand?

As I said anything is possible...but worthy of investigation.

A single New Zealander who is voluntarily going to a new job, the guy has two kids!! Your nuts Harry.

[JDGRUEN]

I have been listening to BBC and CNN for the last two days. Both interviewed men who sported credentials in aircraft communications, transponders, the 'ping' to the satellite... Using slightly different terminology and phraseology their conclusions were quite similar. The shutting down of the transponder and other communications were sequential and seemingly done manually indicating a deliberate set of actions. One of these experts used the term 'human caused actions' or or 'events' or some words to that effect.

There were also statements by these gentlemen that none of this indicated an immediate catastrophic event especially since the pinging to the satellite went on from 4 to 5 hours. Other information indicates that the aircraft turned more than 90 degrees to the west heading out to the Malacca Straights. Currently the U.S. is sending a Destroyer to the Indian Ocean near the Straights of Malacca.

To me this indicates a hijacking or perhaps the co-pilot or even pilot participating. We will see - eventually ... maybe.

[slipperylobster]

^{Next step is to try the Bermuda Triangle.}

This is the asian triangle ....

The Bermuda triangle has three corners of equal angles, whereas in Asia, the each corner has many angles....

[Jingthing]

It's now on the table that it is certainly very possible that we will NEVER know what happened to this plane.

In that case, how does that change air travel? Changes airlines make and how you will feel on your next trip.

[draftvader]

Just seen this completely unsubstantiated rumour on pprune.

One of the rumours coming out of the USA sources is that MH370 may have landed and taken off again.
So what happened when/if it landed? Was the cargo removed? Were the passengers removed? Was the plane refuelled?

If it was refuelled it further increases the radius of search. At the end of the 5 hours we have been told of it was still in the cruise. So it may be that this was when whoever was on board identified and closed down the last transmitter.

In other words the plane could have been stolen. For the plane itself, for the cargo or for the passengers.

PLEASE NOTE: I have said unsubstantiated. For me it rings true. This was not opportune. This has been a long time in the planning and they only needed certain parameters to fall in place to be able to get this on the go. My biggest problem is the refueling. How long can aviation fuel sit in a tanker and still remain in good condition in a tropical environment?

[RandomSand]

It's all about the GOLD I tell thee.

[wheels758]

Just seen this completely unsubstantiated rumour on pprune.

One of the rumours coming out of the USA sources is that MH370 may have landed and taken off again.

So what happened when/if it landed? Was the cargo removed? Were the passengers removed? Was the plane refuelled?

If it was refuelled it further increases the radius of search. At the end of the 5 hours we have been told of it was still in the cruise. So it may be that this was when whoever was on board identified and closed down the last transmitter.

In other words the plane could have been stolen. For the plane itself, for the cargo or for the passengers.

PLEASE NOTE: I have said unsubstantiated. For me it rings true. This was not opportune. This has been a long time in the planning and they only needed certain parameters to fall in place to be able to get this on the go. My biggest problem is the refueling. How long can aviation fuel sit in a tanker and still remain in good condition in a tropical environment?

It's just kerosine, think it can sit a long time

[Basil B]

A kid could fly one of these nowadays, they are all computer controlled.

I know I could jump in a Cessna !52 or 174 any day and fly it even though I have not flown one for 20 years, but one of those things no...

I have tried many flight simulators but nether landed without crashing, best I could do with one of those birds is to figure out the autopilot to set/adjust Heading, Altitude and Speed, and do the mayday call.

Given than no such Cessna !52 or 174 was ever built I really hope you won't take to the skies. Your flying days are behind you.

Being a bit pedantic aren't we...

Cessna 152

Cessna 172 (4 seater up sized 152)

[khaosai]

Hi,

If the aircraft does depressurise the pilots get an indication in the flight deck. The cabin crew will also get an indication in the cabin along with the passenger oxygen masks dropping down immediately. The crew would then probably be aware of the subsequent rapid descent. After approximately 22 minutes the passenger oxygen will have depleted and you will then get passengers suffering from the effects of lack of oxygen if the aircraft is still flying along at high altitude. All of these obvious signals would indicate to the cabin crew that something is not right and I would hope from an experienced crew that some form of communication with the flight deck would be attempted.

Regarding the procedures that have been in place since Septemember 11. The flight deck door is now locked and there is a specific procedure in place to then enter when deemed appropriate. There is a camera available to see who is at the door. Only when the crew are 100% happy will the door then be unlocked. There is a valid argument regarding the toilet location and how much of a threat is posed by that if someone is located inside waiting for an opportunity to breach the flight deck. The emphasis needs to be on keeping the door open to the minimum time required to enter and only when the toilets are not in use. Use another cabin crew member to create a barrier. With all this in place the threat is greatly reduced.

Assuming good weather and no other perceived threats on this particular flight then it would have had approximately 50 tons of fuel onboard prior to departure. After taxi fuel and fuel used during the climb it will have in the region of 44 tons of fuel left. Fuel burn during the cruise at high level will intitially be in the region of 7 tons per hour, reducing as the aircraft gets lighter. 6 hours of flight prior to fuel exhaustion at a true air speed of 470 knots still air would cover 2800 miles. So this aircraft could possibly be 2500 to 3000 miles away from its last known position depending on the direction it was headed and effects of wind. As an example, flying 8000 feet below the optimum altitude will result in an increase of fuel required by 12 to 14%.

There is no way that until the wreckage is found that they know if the transponder was turned off manually or caused by aircraft damage.

Skippy made some good points before, fairly plausible regarding the E&E bay damage thus rendering the pilots oxygen supply unusable. The only thing that is strange is the pilot spinning the altitude knob down during the initial rapid descent maneuver and it stopping at 29500 ft. It could happen but what would the odds be on that. That's a good altitude to fly at to avoid other aircraft when crossing other airways.

No transponder, no communication, no ADS indications, no ACARS messages, no seismic activity, no wreckage. Has me stumped for sure. Catastrophic or planned and completely under control.

[canuckamuck]

Just seen this completely unsubstantiated rumour on pprune.

One of the rumours coming out of the USA sources is that MH370 may have landed and taken off again.

So what happened when/if it landed? Was the cargo removed? Were the passengers removed? Was the plane refuelled?

If it was refuelled it further increases the radius of search. At the end of the 5 hours we have been told of it was still in the cruise. So it may be that this was when whoever was on board identified and closed down the last transmitter.

In other words the plane could have been stolen. For the plane itself, for the cargo or for the passengers.

PLEASE NOTE: I have said unsubstantiated. For me it rings true. This was not opportune. This has been a long time in the planning and they only needed certain parameters to fall in place to be able to get this on the go. My biggest problem is the refueling. How long can aviation fuel sit in a tanker and still remain in good condition in a tropical environment?

Like I mentioned earlier, but you must have missed it. there is no reason to refuel. If the plane managed to land unobserved. then the hostages could be taken away by boat and held in an unknown location. No reason to try another flight.

[PHP87]

My position has been, since it started to become apparent that there was no wreckage where they thought it would be, that the plane has been "taken". People hypothesising about terrorists "taking control" of the plane removes the, rather sensible given the region mindset & MUCH, simpler version of "buying" the pilot(s). That way there is no struggle, no need to find experienced pilots and it is very easy to do everything described with the minimum fuss.

Yesterday another poster said that if they switched off the In Flight Entertainment system then nobody in the cabin would be any the wiser. I felt that this would produce another issue in people complaining to the flight crew and they would see the city below. I think that there is a chance that there were a number of complicit passengers too and, less likely, some cabin crew. You would need to do nothing until somebody piped up with a "we're not going the right way" then have the pilot (same voice that introduced themselves before take off) give some pre-fabricated rubbish to throw people off. This will buy a couple of hours before anybody in the cabin has to play their hand and start the "SHUT UP AND STAY SEATED" lecture. This would be within the last hour or so of the "recorded" flight time.

Now we are over to another poster (I think on pprune) theory that they flew to a disused WW2 air-strip in the Nicobar islands. This is in the right direction and would place them outside of being investigated further as they were posing no threat to any significant nation's radar. Once landed they have the ability to:

1) control the passengers and start the threats with more numbers (i.e. people on the ground)

2) refuel from a boat with aviation fuel

3) take care of the final communications systems that are sending data to Rolls Royce

Now we have a plane with NO signal, hostages (apparently with some value) and enough fuel to go 14,000km. What's within that radius?

My suspicion still points to the plane heading North over Bangladesh, Sikkim, Tibet and, finally, Western China (where there are HUGE swathes of sky not being monitored by primary radar). Having reviewed a published primary radar map (that these people certainly would have done) I will alter this slightly to then turning NE over Myanmar where there appears to be a radar free corridor into China then back towards Western China.

Again I point my finger at the Uyghur people and remind everybody of the mass stabbing in Kunming on March 1st that was never claimed by anybody....but certainly happened.

Once there the passengers can be split up into smaller groups and sent to multiple "safe houses" so that any attack on these people guarantees 80% of the passengers are killed at the same time. The people of interest are taken to a secure location and "forced" (in a kind of Bridge Over the River Khwai way) to help develop whatever it is that they can do (rumours of defence contractors on board). The final part of the puzzle is the leverage they are using. Is one of these supposed contractors flying with their family? I know that if somebody brutally murders a stranger (expendable passenger) in front of me then points the weapons at my family I will ask him how many lanes he wants that bridge to be and does he want a separate level for the trains...and maybe a nice viewing platform too? This is what is taking time.

Now we have hostages that can't be rescued, a plane with no ID, (and according to the rumours) invisible to radar that can be flown remotely (not too much hard work for a bunch of talented engineers and a captain who has flown numerous simulator missions). All that we need now is some sort of weapon to stick to the plane....and the demands begin.

Again, I accept that I am being "fanciful" but when I postulated that the plane had been taken on Monday I felt that it was a 1% chance. Now, on Friday, it appears increasingly likely and I think nearer 50%. Accepting that it didn't crash if it was hijacked (because you have a plane that has sauntered through primary radar over population and it hasn't been crashed into it) then this is a potential (I think about 0.5% likely) scenario. My biggest question is why.

Another time that I feel that pressing "post" is going to open me up to abuse but I did it on Monday and I'll give it another shot today. Please remember that I am hypothesising and am VERY LIKELY completely wrong. I am just pushing out a potential scenario.

I floated a similar theory on a different threat a few days ago, but not as detailed:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710148-missing-mh-370-stolen-austrian-passport-used-by-iranian-teenage-migrant/page-2#entry7550171

I posted my original, much simpler, theory on March 10th but I have a feeling that the weaponisation angle I might well have got from your theory on March 11th. I originally just stated that they had flown to Western China but since then have seen many theories on here and on pprune. I hope I made it clear that I have been influenced by many ideas in the "growth" of my theory. Anyway, it is all just a theory but I am getting annoyed with the increasing likelyhood of my "Die Hard"esque plots!

Some say "You couldn't write it" but I think that you can. Plots don't just appear for fiction or for reality, they have to be created. It is true to say that the difference between Tom Clancy (as an example) and a terrorist is simply the realisation of the plot. Being that this one has a number of factors outside the expected "terrorist hand-book" we ought to think a little more outside the box to solve this one. Whichever way you look at it this is VERY scary stuff right now. Just glad I'm not flying as I have a smaller theory that this might just be part of a larger puzzle, starting with the Kunming stabbing, that we haven't seen all the pieces of yet.

I'm sure we weren't the only one's kicking these theories around several days ago, but why are the authorities just now floating them or at least publicly doing so?

The Kunming stabbing/hacking angle might play into this as well.

[laolover88]

Trouble, now, of course is: Nobody trusts anybody

Nobody trusts the Malaysians, whether because they are innocents or 'economical with the truth' ie. liars,

the Chinese release silly photos and stamp their feet, nobody would trust the US about anything whether to do with

satellites or pings, nobody trusts Boeing/RR to tell what they know..they have future businesses to run.

I would still like to see, as a start,!! ha ha:

The Cargo Manifest

The identity of the noshows, if they existed

Complete data, in so far as is possible, on all passengers

Something from Freescale as to what there employees were doing travelling from Malaysia to China. Not necessarily

suspicious, that.

Data from the satellite(s) to confirm the assertion that the plane was airborne for several hours, and if that datacontains locations, lets have it.

Actually just some facts and evidence and no more 'it is believed' or words to that effect.

If it was a novel you would have tossed it away by now on the basis that the author had got so confused by the

complexity of the narrative and plots and sub plots that he had created that it was unlikely he could ever arrive at anycredible conclusion. Meanwhile in KL some poor s*ds are having to try and just do that

Edited March 14, 2014 by laolover88

[draftvader]

Just seen this completely unsubstantiated rumour on pprune.

One of the rumours coming out of the USA sources is that MH370 may have landed and taken off again.

So what happened when/if it landed? Was the cargo removed? Were the passengers removed? Was the plane refuelled?

If it was refuelled it further increases the radius of search. At the end of the 5 hours we have been told of it was still in the cruise. So it may be that this was when whoever was on board identified and closed down the last transmitter.

In other words the plane could have been stolen. For the plane itself, for the cargo or for the passengers.

PLEASE NOTE: I have said unsubstantiated. For me it rings true. This was not opportune. This has been a long time in the planning and they only needed certain parameters to fall in place to be able to get this on the go. My biggest problem is the refueling. How long can aviation fuel sit in a tanker and still remain in good condition in a tropical environment?

Like I mentioned earlier, but you must have missed it. there is no reason to refuel. If the plane managed to land unobserved. then the hostages could be taken away by boat and held in an unknown location. No reason to try another flight.

Planes get you further and, as we now know, nobody was looking in the right place. They managed to get to where they got to with only a single Malay radar station picking them up 2 days later...... oh dear, where is all that military funding being spent...I'm always questioning how come this happened so close to the Thai border without anybody here picking it up.

[laolover88]

Just seen this completely unsubstantiated rumour on pprune.

One of the rumours coming out of the USA sources is that MH370 may have landed and taken off again.

So what happened when/if it landed? Was the cargo removed? Were the passengers removed? Was the plane refuelled?

If it was refuelled it further increases the radius of search. At the end of the 5 hours we have been told of it was still in the cruise. So it may be that this was when whoever was on board identified and closed down the last transmitter.

In other words the plane could have been stolen. For the plane itself, for the cargo or for the passengers.

PLEASE NOTE: I have said unsubstantiated. For me it rings true. This was not opportune. This has been a long time in the planning and they only needed certain parameters to fall in place to be able to get this on the go. My biggest problem is the refueling. How long can aviation fuel sit in a tanker and still remain in good condition in a tropical environment?

Like I mentioned earlier, but you must have missed it. there is no reason to refuel. If the plane managed to land unobserved. then the hostages could be taken away by boat and held in an unknown location. No reason to try another flight.

Planes get you further and, as we now know, nobody was looking in the right place. They managed to get to where they got to with only a single Malay radar station picking them up 2 days later...... oh dear, where is all that military funding being spent...I'm always questioning how come this happened so close to the Thai border without anybody here picking it up.

Simple: as has been said

No Thais on board

Of course, if it turns out the plane is in U-Tapao......

Edited March 14, 2014 by laolover88

[Basil B]

'Sea-floor event' reported with possible plane link

March 14, 2014 1:45 pm

Beijing - Chinese scientists have detected a "sea-floor event" that could be linked to missing flight MH370 hitting the sea bed, state media said on Friday.

The event was recorded at 2:55 am Saturday (1855 GMT Friday) in waters between Malaysia and Vietnam, the Xinhua news agency quoted seismologists and physicists at University of Science and Technology of China as saying.

This would be nearly one and a half hours after the plane disappeared from radar.

The "non-seismic" area is 116 kilometres northeast of the plane’s last confirmed position, the scientists said.

DPA

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Sea-floor-event-reported-with-possible-plane-link-30229212.html

Ps. Special thanks for khaosai for proving lot's of, easy to understand, information.

That's roughly the area of the Chinese Sat images and the oil workers report.

[draftvader]

Planes get you further and, as we now know, nobody was looking in the right place. They managed to get to where they got to with only a single Malay radar station picking them up 2 days later...... oh dear, where is all that military funding being spent...I'm always questioning how come this happened so close to the Thai border without anybody here picking it up.

Simple: as has been said

No Thais on board

Surely an unidentified object tracking along your border in a troubled region is cause for some alarm?

[laolover88]

Planes get you further and, as we now know, nobody was looking in the right place. They managed to get to where they got to with only a single Malay radar station picking them up 2 days later...... oh dear, where is all that military funding being spent...I'm always questioning how come this happened so close to the Thai border without anybody here picking it up.

Simple: as has been said

No Thais on board

Surely an unidentified object tracking along your border in a troubled region is cause for some alarm?

There are large numbers of unidentified 'objects' tracking along Thailand's borders, whether at Betong or

Mae Hong Son. Of course they are mostly human objects. Not to discount Curt Jurgens chained to the wrist of Taki

Stromberg making a landing at Songkhla

[metisdead]

A post containing yet another wild conspiracy theory has been removed.