Whats with restaurants refusing debit cards but not credit cards?

[celso]

It's happened a few times. I get to the bill, and the restaurant won't let me pay by debit card, even though they have a card reader.

Like yesterday I was in a Japanese place in Siam Centre. I didnt have enough cash so I offered my TMB card. 'Oh sorry sir, we cant take that'. Ok, offer my kasikorn card. 'Sir we dont take debit card, do you have credit card?'.

At this point my friend offers his UK bank card, which the waitress takes. It was also for a debit account but I guess no-one realised, because we paid and left.

What's the reason for this? I've had the same experience several times. Debit or credit, both cards do the same thing. Other shops never have a problem with it, just restaurants.

[Seastallion]

Perhaps it's the fees?

[i claudius]

Yes its crazy ,try to pay for my air tickets online ,refuses debit card only take credit card ,for a falang to get a credit card we have to jump through hoops ,my brother in law ,who does not have a pot to piss in ,no problem sir . he is Thai i am a falang ,go figure.

[Robininbkk]

They do take debit cards, but don't take Thai ones, but are happy to take international ones... from my experience as well.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I use my foreign home country) VISA or MC debit cards all the time in BKK to pay for restaurant bills.

Some places only take cash, of course. But I can't recall anyplace ever denying me to use a VISA or MC debit card, but accepting the same kinds of credit cards.

I never use Thai bank ATM, debit or credit cards to pay for anything here. Too much risk and no consumer protection if those cards are ever lost, stolen or cloned. You're on the hook for all fraudulent charges right up until the time you notify the bank -- even if you were not aware or couldn't have been aware of the fraud.

[Soutpeel]

Yes its crazy ,try to pay for my air tickets online ,refuses debit card only take credit card ,for a falang to get a credit card we have to jump through hoops ,my brother in law ,who does not have a pot to piss in ,no problem sir . he is Thai i am a falang ,go figure.

Jump through what hoops ? I had a CC from SCB about 6 weeks after arriving in Thailand

Your BIL has been given one cos he is seen as less of a credit risk

[OZEMADE]

When paying with your credit card, don't let it out of your sight and always use your pin to pay.

When you give them your credit card it is too easy for them to use their mobile phone to photo the front and rear of your card to get the code numbers.

After they have got the front and rear numbers they can order anything on line, as they have all the info required to purchase goods.

In Australia on the 1st of July I think it is. All transaction done on any cards must be pinned, no signatures will be accepted after that date.

Just a warning.

[cooked]

Ha ha. I can use my Thai debit card in Switzerland but not here (except for BigC I think). Very funny.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

When paying with your credit card, don't let it out of your sight and always use your pin to pay.

When you give them your credit card it is too easy for them to use their mobile phone to photo the front and rear of your card to get the code numbers.

After they have got the front and rear numbers they can order anything on line, as they have all the info required to purchase goods.

In Australia on the 1st of July I think it is. All transaction done on any cards must be pinned, no signatures will be accepted after that date.

Just a warning.

In years of living in Thailand, I've never yet had any bankcard transaction for a purchase (credit or debit card) handled via a PIN-based purchase. It's always swipe and sign.

ATM withdrawals of course involved the use of PIN codes. But point of sale (POS) purchases here typically don't. The cardholder here doesn't get to choose the type of transaction they want.

[whoisyourdaddy]

Because Eftpos system is NOT set up for debit cards

[robblok]

Yes its crazy ,try to pay for my air tickets online ,refuses debit card only take credit card ,for a falang to get a credit card we have to jump through hoops ,my brother in law ,who does not have a pot to piss in ,no problem sir . he is Thai i am a falang ,go figure.

Jump through what hoops ? I had a CC from SCB about 6 weeks after arriving in Thailand

Your BIL has been given one cos he is seen as less of a credit risk

In a way understandable in a way totally not understandable.

Its easy for a foreigner to move up and forget about it all including outstanding credit card and debts. I have seen topics about this enough here how they forget about debts in the old country and such. So I can understand the Thai reasoning.

However there are plenty foreigners here with far more fixed income just not from a Thai source. They make more and have more as those Thais that do get credit cards.

I don't really care as I dont like using a credit card, i got a Dutch one for plane tickets and some software and that is it.

[BngkkB]

Happened to me at Bennihana a couple of months ago? Thought there might be a problem with my SCB debit card? But used it the next day no problem? I was wondering if on Thai Debit that the exact amount of transaction has to be entered and not any room to leave a tip on top of the amount due? In the states they hold the amount pending till the exact amount is pushed through, but with a point of sale debit that can not be done. Maybe if they know tip will be added by cash? Otherwise "Whoisyourdaddy" has it right? What exactly is a eftpos system?

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[OZEMADE]

When paying with your credit card, don't let it out of your sight and always use your pin to pay.

When you give them your credit card it is too easy for them to use their mobile phone to photo the front and rear of your card to get the code numbers.

After they have got the front and rear numbers they can order anything on line, as they have all the info required to purchase goods.

In Australia on the 1st of July I think it is. All transaction done on any cards must be pinned, no signatures will be accepted after that date.

Just a warning.

In years of living in Thailand, I've never yet had any bankcard transaction for a purchase (credit or debit card) handled via a PIN-based purchase. It's always swipe and sign.

ATM withdrawals of course involved the use of PIN codes. But point of sale (POS) purchases here typically don't. The cardholder here doesn't get to choose the type of transaction they want.

I am just saying, this is what is going to happen here in Australia. I don't know how they are going to get around it overseas. I personally use CASH all the time in Thailand except once when I purchased airline tickets, and a guy turned up at the booking office on a bike and we did the transaction with him on a reader and I pinned in the number. I now book on line over a secure line when booking airline tickets or any online transactions.

[celso]

 

Perhaps it's the fees?

Maybe you're right, and for some reason visa processing fees cost more for debit cards than credit cards. So restaurants prefer credit card.

But the bill was around 700 baht (2 pizzas and 2 beers, its a good place, I recommend it). I've paid by debit in villamarket for a 400 baht bill before now (when feeling lazy).

[JaiLai]

Yes its crazy ,try to pay for my air tickets online ,refuses debit card only take credit card ,for a falang to get a credit card we have to jump through hoops ,my brother in law ,who does not have a pot to piss in ,no problem sir . he is Thai i am a falang ,go figure.

Jump through what hoops ? I had a CC from SCB about 6 weeks after arriving in Thailand

Your BIL has been given one cos he is seen as less of a credit risk

Judging from your post count I assume it was quite some time ago you got your CC?

Don't think it's quite so easy now.

Luckily I also got my CC quite some time ago!

[billd766]

Kasikorn or most banks will give a farang a credit card.

Before they issue one to you however you have to open a bank account and deposit the amount that you want the card for. 1M baht. Certainly sir. you give US the 1 M baht which we lock up in a bank account that you cannot access and we give you the card and a very small interest rate which will be returned to you at some time after the card is cancelled jut in case there are any outstanding bills. 6 months was the time period I think.

I just ordered a new UK passport with my KBank debit card and even though I had opened it for online shopping etc the UK government couldn't take the money. Fortunately a friend in the UK let me use hers and that went through OK. Trying to transfer the money to her afterwards is another long story.

[Soutpeel]

Kasikorn or most banks will give a farang a credit card.

Before they issue one to you however you have to open a bank account and deposit the amount that you want the card for. 1M baht. Certainly sir. you give US the 1 M baht which we lock up in a bank account that you cannot access and we give you the card and a very small interest rate which will be returned to you at some time after the card is cancelled jut in case there are any outstanding bills. 6 months was the time period I think.

I just ordered a new UK passport with my KBank debit card and even though I had opened it for online shopping etc the UK government couldn't take the money. Fortunately a friend in the UK let me use hers and that went through OK. Trying to transfer the money to her afterwards is another long story.

Not exactly a credit card is it ?

[bina]

not just thailand. here also, peopel still dont always know what a debit card is and noone uses pin numbers, still using manual swipers as well... so dont be snobby... cash is best

[CharlieH]

I just got my wife to get the Credit card and an extra one added to her account for me - Job done !

Dont have the expense of using mine now and the International fees etc that go with it.

[chrisinth]

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CharlieH, on 11 Mar 2014 - 13:45, said:

I just got my wife to get the Credit card and an extra one added to her account for me - Job done !

Dont have the expense of using mine now and the International fees etc that go with it.

Agree Charlie, by far the easiest way to get one. As long as you don't use it anywhere that they check the signatures or name on the card. It is what I have done as well, mostly used for online orders and as a cushion if needed.

A few years ago I was at the bank asking about applying for one (Bangkok bank) and the requirements for a falang to get a credit card were along the lines of a non immigrant visa, a monthly salary of 120,000 baht (I think) and the most important bit was the work permit. I believe this differs branch to branch, bank to bank, and I still believe that the emphasis on the work permit is being taken out of context by the banks.

I have a good friend here, on a non-o, married to a Thai, two children, two cars, house paid for. Working O&G in Nigeria with a monthly wage of 7 figures (baht) and yet he cannot get a credit card issued by a Thai bank! Yes, he has Thai bank accounts. The kicker to his situation is that the 2 platinum cards his wife has were only issued through his proof of income. Go figure.

The other way to get a credit card is as billd766 mentioned, a credit card issued on a 'locked' sum, where the 'credit card holder' deposits a fixed sum with the bank and the holder is able to draw on that amount. Not sure if all banks do this, or as Soutpeel said, if it is classed as a true credit card?

Edited March 11, 2014 by chrisinth

[Seastallion]

Kasikorn or most banks will give a farang a credit card.

Before they issue one to you however you have to open a bank account and deposit the amount that you want the card for. 1M baht. Certainly sir. you give US the 1 M baht which we lock up in a bank account that you cannot access and we give you the card and a very small interest rate which will be returned to you at some time after the card is cancelled jut in case there are any outstanding bills. 6 months was the time period I think.

I just ordered a new UK passport with my KBank debit card and even though I had opened it for online shopping etc the UK government couldn't take the money. Fortunately a friend in the UK let me use hers and that went through OK. Trying to transfer the money to her afterwards is another long story.

Ahhh, is that why debit cards might be refused? Funds aren't released.?

The whole idea around debit cards was it was not a credit card per se, but could be used like one, only there was no borrowing, the funds were there. Ordinary eftpos (atm) cards aren't set up for that, (and Thailand (correct me if I'm wrong) has not taken eftpos on board yet.)

[theoldgit]

When I applied for my new UK passport last year, via Hong Kong, my Kasikorn debit card was declined but my Kasikorn virtual card went through, both linked to the same account.

I once had a restaurant refuse my Thai Amex card, they said their machine wasn't working, I advised them that I had no other card and no cash, all of a sudden their machine was working again.

[Thanet]

Yes its crazy ,try to pay for my air tickets online ,refuses debit card only take credit card ,for a falang to get a credit card we have to jump through hoops ,my brother in law ,who does not have a pot to piss in ,no problem sir . he is Thai i am a falang ,go figure.

Jump through what hoops ? I had a CC from SCB about 6 weeks after arriving in Thailand

Your BIL has been given one cos he is seen as less of a credit risk

Bank of Thailand regulations stipulate that foreign applicants for credit cards have a work permit and minimum income derived in Thailand. Some banks, as has been explained elsewhere, grant credit type cards against a bond that is held in a frozen savings account. Usually, the amount held is much higher than the card limit, and little or no interest is paid on the bond amount.

As you say, obtaining a credit card is no problem if you are working in Thailand, but it is an onerous requirement for retirees and the like to meet, regardless of how wealthy they may be. The fact that local debit cards are refused in Thailand makes payment by electronic means problematic for such people, unless they hold foreign debit / credit cards and shuffle money around to pay them.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Thanet

[Thanet]

 

Perhaps it's the fees?

Maybe you're right, and for some reason visa processing fees cost more for debit cards than credit cards. So restaurants prefer credit card.

But the bill was around 700 baht (2 pizzas and 2 beers, its a good place, I recommend it). I've paid by debit in villamarket for a 400 baht bill before now (when feeling lazy).

The irony here is that debit cards actually attract a lower transaction fee to the merchant than credit cards. Debit card transaction fees are less than one percent, while credit cards go all the way up to three or four percent for Amex or Diners Club.

Call me a cynic, but perhaps the banks would rather we used credit cards - they make more money that way. The transaction fees are higher, and it encourages us to get into debt and pay interest on outstanding credit card balances.

Incidentally, even in Australia my debit card usually works but is often declined, especially in restaurants. My credit card always works. This puzzles me - machine processed Visa and Mastercard payments to both credit and debit cards are made in an identical way, i.e., as soon as you make the payment the money is instantly reserved and you can no longer access it. The funds available to the Visa and Mastercard online systems are determined by your available credit and bank balance for credit and credit cards respectively, which are published to the Visa and Mastercard networks and are instantly available to merchant terminals for reading and/or reserving funds against transactions.

I find it annoying that my bank steers me toward a method of payment that makes me responsible for paying back a debt, rather than letting me spend my own money.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Thanet

[Thanet]

When I applied for my new UK passport last year, via Hong Kong, my Kasikorn debit card was declined but my Kasikorn virtual card went through, both linked to the same account.

I once had a restaurant refuse my Thai Amex card, they said their machine wasn't working, I advised them that I had no other card and no cash, all of a sudden their machine was working again.

Many merchants dislike Amex, and would much rather accept Visa or Mastercard. The fees charged by Amex for processing transactions are among the highest. This takes money directly out of the merchant's pocket, unless they charge on to the customer a (usually inflated) amount.

[SeaVisionBurma]

<snip> What exactly is a eftpos system?

EFTPOS = Electronic Funds Transfer at Point Of Sale

[theoldgit]

Are you sure it's Bank of Thailand regulations that dictate that credit cards can only be issued to foreigners who have a work permit and earn money in Thailand?

I cannot really see the logic behind this.

I have had Thai credit card for nearly seven years, never worked here so no WP, my only income has ever been my pensions, oh and no money in deposit.

[theoldgit]

I'm aware that many merchants don't like the high charges Amex impose, but still choose to accept them, some even offer promotions if you pay with Amex, as well as other cards.

In my case my bill came in an Amex folder, then they said their machine wasn't working, but then was.

[Thanet]

Are you sure it's Bank of Thailand regulations that dictate that credit cards can only be issued to foreigners who have a work permit and earn money in Thailand?

I cannot really see the logic behind this.

I have had Thai credit card for nearly seven years, never worked here so no WP, my only income has ever been my pensions, oh and no money in deposit.

I was told by a customer of my company, who works in the credit card division of Siam Commercial Bank that this was a Bank of Thailand regulation. I haven't actually seen or checked this with the Bank of Thailand myself, so I do have to concede this as hearsay, and you could be right. That said, all the application procedures and forms for credit cards, regardless of which bank, mandate an income and a work permit, which implies a common standard. In Thai banking, common standards are usually inherited from Bank of Thailand guidelines.

I've also heard of people who have been granted credits cards with no income. It happens very rarely, and usually is because the Branch Manager knows the applicant very well personally. Perhaps there is a provision to make exceptions discretionary with the Branch Manager, or perhaps this is because they bend the rules for people they like. For the majority, however, credit cards are out of reach with no work permit and Thai income.

[garrya]

 

Perhaps it's the fees?

Maybe you're right, and for some reason visa processing fees cost more for debit cards than credit cards. So restaurants prefer credit card.

But the bill was around 700 baht (2 pizzas and 2 beers, its a good place, I recommend it). I've paid by debit in villamarket for a 400 baht bill before now (when feeling lazy).

The irony here is that debit cards actually attract a lower transaction fee to the merchant than credit cards. Debit card transaction fees are less than one percent, while credit cards go all the way up to three or four percent for Amex or Diners Club.

Call me a cynic, but perhaps the banks would rather we used credit cards - they make more money that way. The transaction fees are higher, and it encourages us to get into debt and pay interest on outstanding credit card balances.

Incidentally, even in Australia my debit card usually works but is often declined, especially in restaurants. My credit card always works. This puzzles me - machine processed Visa and Mastercard payments to both credit and debit cards are made in an identical way, i.e., as soon as you make the payment the money is instantly reserved and you can no longer access it. The funds available to the Visa and Mastercard online systems are determined by your available credit and bank balance for credit and credit cards respectively, which are published to the Visa and Mastercard networks and are instantly available to merchant terminals for reading and/or reserving funds against transactions.

I find it annoying that my bank steers me toward a method of payment that makes me responsible for paying back a debt, rather than letting me spend my own money.

Spot on. This is exactly what's happening. Only the Bangkok Bank debit card works as usual. All the other banks issue debit cards with limited purchase possibilities online or at certain places. Eventually, they all offer their credit card services as they can make money on gullible people.