I would not trust a person who withheld this vital information from me for 3 months.

She told him a couple of months before they meet for the first time.

What a stupid question. It's phrased wrongly. It's either her and the kids or him alone. That's it. It's the single mother scenerio.

The way OP is phrasing the question is somehow seperate the mother from the kids.

GinBoy2 is right in his 'biological father' comment.

Several years ago, I watched a documentary researched, compiled and directed by women; three things that stuck in my mind was

1) that women are attracted primarily to the scent of a male whose genetics / DNA / immune system is least like their own

2) the '7 year itch' is a woman's drive (a primitive drive to thwart the species being easily depleted; see 1) and

3) research revealed that 26% of children born in the UK, the paternal father was not, in fact, the biological father

As to the Argentinean (Loles) comment, the Latino culture also sees female as a lesser

My missus has a child from a Thai father; to me its a package deal and I welcome them both into my life ...

lots of good advice...

no matter what they tell you....look at the stats...they start copulating early...and kids are here and there.

Probably why they run away from their homes, and send money back (his).

Unless your friend is speaks fluent thai, is devishly handsome, and generous to a fault...

He may want to go the other way.....in other words, find a good gal 40ish with grown up kids...

no surprises that way.

Here is another idea...

I bet tons of guys think they are chatting up the girl with that good profile.

Did you know that a big, lucrative business exists for "fixers" looking only to get a good cut? They will basically tell your buddy anything he wants to hear. The fixer was probably the number 1 hustler in the village, during her hay day. Your bud is going to somehow give her about 30,000 baht. She will definitely try to hook and snag. Withhold information, and give it out after you are already commited. No sense throwing everything back.

Good farangs are hard to come by.. It is your friend who is being sold, not the gal.

OP, must admit I've read your opening fully. Also admit I've not read a single response of 215 posts.

I am pointing this out because I know the topic, the situation and I have my own opinion on the issue.

NO! No! no!

The kids are not the part of the package!

The mother has to be complimented for being frank and earnest from the start. She is clear about her wants.

The man is equally clear about his 'no-wants'. Yet he deserves no compliments from me.

Because despite his not wanting responsibility for kids he hesitates, compromises, gives in.

To sum up the situation - he is on the hook. I suspect the place the hook is in.

Neither mother's nor man's positions are a surprise to me. There are many different individual cases but typical for Thai situation is:

- first hormones

- than 'love'

- than kids

- than looking out for a reliable provider/father

- than may start the cycle again...

Men are another basket case

- impregnate one

- go to the next

- than may start the cycle again...

I must add that myself I did look after my own kids and expect others do the same. More a question of principle and responsibility than money.

Adoption of responsibilities of another person is against my instincts.

The time for throwing stones is now on...

Then how did the OP problem arise?

Or minor details like kids is only relevant for Stage 2?

Shopping for an SO is a major undertaking, if you don't have the circumstances to do it properly better off focusing on that issue first.

Nothing can be done both hastily and prudently.

Point taken.

However, the kids may have been 'hidden' even in person.

Dating her In person would of course be the ideal scenario in any circumstance, but it isn't always possible.

Wym, while i agree with many of your sentiments (not all) regarding aspects of relationships, I would say you are in a sub 1% in your methodical and rational way of thinking when it comes to these matters.

I find it difficult to be too harsh on other people for relationship errors. when they are just following well worn and accepted paths.

I can see both sides on this one.

The father should be pulling his weight. I would be happy to take on some responsibly, out of generosity and good will, but i wouldn't expect anything binding or any problems from the wife if i couldn't give as much support as she wants.

If there was anything pushy about it would seriously consider the whole thing again before stepping in.

My family life. Well, i have a gf. We have a 2 year old. My partner has a 15 year old. After the split with her ex, her daughter ended up staying with the other side of the family. I don't know why really. I suppose they won the argument. My gf has a great family. The other side are not so nice. The father gave his daughter to his aunt to take care of in a 'not so nice part of town', and he went off to start a new family, and is now in jail for drugs.

My gf continuously asks he daughter to come stay with us, but she doesn't want to move area/school and leave her friends. But may be coming round to the idea, i think.

I am more than happy to take some responsibility (i.e provide her with food and the other basics and pay the rest of school for her and university). She can earn money by helping out in my gf's business. I would just be happy for my gf to have her daughter back, and with us she would be able to get an education and have a decent start in life, rather than getting pregnant in a slum like the rest of her friends at the moment (she seems in with the wrong crowd)

Anyway, that is my perspective, but in think these things are very subjective. I would not be forced into anything and would be wary of that.

My family life. Well, i have a gf. We have a 2 year old. My partner has a 15 year old. After the split with her ex, her daughter ended up staying with the other side of the family. I don't know why really. I suppose they won the argument. My gf has a great family. The other side are not so nice. The father gave his daughter to his aunt to take care of in a 'not so nice part of town', and he went off to start a new family, and is now in jail for drugs.

Just to point out, (assuming you live in Thailand)

You don't have a 2 year old son, you aren't married.

Your gf has a 2 year old son, she can do whatever she likes with her son, she has 100% parental authority in Thailand.

You currently have no legal responsibilities or authorities over that child.

My family life. Well, i have a gf. We have a 2 year old. My partner has a 15 year old. After the split with her ex, her daughter ended up staying with the other side of the family. I don't know why really. I suppose they won the argument. My gf has a great family. The other side are not so nice. The father gave his daughter to his aunt to take care of in a 'not so nice part of town', and he went off to start a new family, and is now in jail for drugs.

Just to point out, (assuming you live in Thailand)

You don't have a 2 year old son, you aren't married.

Your gf has a 2 year old son, she can do whatever she likes with her son, she has 100% parental authority in Thailand.

You currently have no legal responsibilities or authorities over that child.

Thank you for such wonderful insights.

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Then how did the OP problem arise?

Or minor details like kids is only relevant for Stage 2?

Shopping for an SO is a major undertaking, if you don't have the circumstances to do it properly better off focusing on that issue first.

Nothing can be done both hastily and prudently.

Point taken.

However, the kids may have been 'hidden' even in person.

Dating her In person would of course be the ideal scenario in any circumstance, but it isn't always possible.

Wym, while i agree with many of your sentiments (not all) regarding aspects of relationships, I would say you are in a sub 1% in your methodical and rational way of thinking when it comes to these matters.

I find it difficult to be too harsh on other people for relationship errors. when they are just following well worn and accepted paths.

Thats the thing...make your own path...do not follow

Following is for sheep....kiwis...and Thais....in that order.

If they are male,later he may if still together have to pay sin sot,my wife has two boys i made it quite clear i would not pay the sin sot for them,they have a farang father who is a doctor though he comes to thailand regularley he has never tried to see them and gives no support,while i am happy to support them with everyday needs,i give my wife money every month for this no way will i be paying sin sot,buying cars or motorbikes for them as i have 4 kids of my own in Australia,sorry but i cannot support the whole world.

My family life. Well, i have a gf. We have a 2 year old. My partner has a 15 year old. After the split with her ex, her daughter ended up staying with the other side of the family. I don't know why really. I suppose they won the argument. My gf has a great family. The other side are not so nice. The father gave his daughter to his aunt to take care of in a 'not so nice part of town', and he went off to start a new family, and is now in jail for drugs.

Just to point out, (assuming you live in Thailand)

You don't have a 2 year old son, you aren't married.

Your gf has a 2 year old son, she can do whatever she likes with her son, she has 100% parental authority in Thailand.

You currently have no legal responsibilities or authorities over that child.

How do you know he does not have the documents ?

My family life. Well, i have a gf. We have a 2 year old. My partner has a 15 year old. After the split with her ex, her daughter ended up staying with the other side of the family. I don't know why really. I suppose they won the argument. My gf has a great family. The other side are not so nice. The father gave his daughter to his aunt to take care of in a 'not so nice part of town', and he went off to start a new family, and is now in jail for drugs.

Just to point out, (assuming you live in Thailand)

You don't have a 2 year old son, you aren't married.

Your gf has a 2 year old son, she can do whatever she likes with her son, she has 100% parental authority in Thailand.

You currently have no legal responsibilities or authorities over that child.

How do you know he does not have the documents ?

Thai law say no.

My family life. Well, i have a gf. We have a 2 year old. My partner has a 15 year old. After the split with her ex, her daughter ended up staying with the other side of the family. I don't know why really. I suppose they won the argument. My gf has a great family. The other side are not so nice. The father gave his daughter to his aunt to take care of in a 'not so nice part of town', and he went off to start a new family, and is now in jail for drugs.

Just to point out, (assuming you live in Thailand)

You don't have a 2 year old son, you aren't married.

Your gf has a 2 year old son, she can do whatever she likes with her son, she has 100% parental authority in Thailand.

You currently have no legal responsibilities or authorities over that child.

How do you know he does not have the documents ?

Thai law say no.

Funny...I have the documents.....no marry....thai law at thai law offit say yes

Funny...I have the documents.....no marry....thai law at thai law offit say yes

The chances of you having paternity affirmation documents, and any form of shared custody, in Thailand with no marriage and a 2 year old Thai kid are ZERO.

If you claim you do, I'll call you a liar.

Call me an old softy, but I don't think that I would want a serious relationship with a woman who would abandon her kids for some guy. If it was a short-time relationship, that would be a whole different story.

When I met my girlfriend and now wife, I didn't know she had a little baby boy. After a few months she told me and although " shocked", I was faced with a choice. Either say "goodbye" or take on the responsibility. I took on the responsibility and got a spouse visa and a visa for the little lad to come and live with me in London. I still remember this little boy arriving at heathrow with my wife and he smiled at me then and gave me a big hug. He is 14 years old now and I don't get the hugs, but I am still a proud stepdad, and he just calls me dad. He is a lovely lad and I am proud to call him my "son".

I made the decision that I wanted to do this and it is one hell of a responsibility, as I was an instant dad. I also have a daughter with my wife who calls him her brother.

I personally wouldn't want to marry a women who leaves her son 6 thousand miles away, but that is just me. Yes there are risks, and my risk was if she left me, under uk law I would be financially responsible for her and him on separation or divorce. On our death this lad has a half share with my biological child.

Am I a mug? No I don't think so. Did I take a risk? Yes I did. Was it the correct decision? Yes.

Would I be sad if I had to provide for him on divorce? Not at all, I could afford to then and could afford to now.

My advice would be walk away if you are do not want to provide for her children. If you don't want baggage, then find a single women.

Good luck either way

Funny...I have the documents.....no marry....thai law at thai law offit say yes

The chances of you having paternity affirmation documents, and any form of shared custody, in Thailand with no marriage and a 2 year old Thai kid are ZERO.

If you claim you do, I'll call you a liar.

Yes you can call me a liar because I do not have a 2yo kid....however, never said I did...however I do have the same parental rights as a married father of my kids.....so stick that where the sun shines most with you by the sounds.

You currently have no legal responsibilities or authorities over that child.

Funny...I have the documents.....no marry....thai law at thai law offit say yes

I do have the same parental rights as a married father of my kids.

I believe you that you think you have some documents, and maybe a lawyer told you something that either you don't understand or that was a lie.

But if you're not legally married, the fact is you have no legal connection to that child.

The upside is, if you divorce she can't require you to pay any money either.

Then how did the OP problem arise?

Or minor details like kids is only relevant for Stage 2?

Shopping for an SO is a major undertaking, if you don't have the circumstances to do it properly better off focusing on that issue first.

Nothing can be done both hastily and prudently.

Wym, while i agree with many of your sentiments (not all) regarding aspects of relationships, I would say you are in a sub 1% in your methodical and rational way of thinking when it comes to these matters.

I find it difficult to be too harsh on other people for relationship errors. when they are just following well worn and accepted paths.

Thanks for the kind words.

Believe me I've made all the mistakes and paid the price, will continue to do so all my life.

But pointing out fundamental errors and giving advice based on that experience here in a public forum isn't just about the OP, there are thousands of people reading, many of which can benefit by perhaps avoiding some of the obvious ones.

The mother of my current crop of children - call her "O" - brought me home for the first time to visit the family usual broken-down rice farm shack situation. Out of the dozen little cousins etc running around I spotted one very beautiful little girl with a familiar spark in her eye and immediately put two and two together.

Next day we went down to Surin beach, my SO went in the truck, I drove three sisters and a half-dozen kids crammed in the back. At a lull in the noise I asked "so who is X's mother?" 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand 3 one thousand, could feel the hyper-charged psychic communications going on between the ladies, finally one answers "Y" the oldest sister, dead silence for another 20 bumps in the road. I had been watching X's face in the mirror, eyes wide as saucers, when that answer given she made eye contact with me and I knew 100% she was my SOs little girl.

When I was alone with Yai at one point the next day, I remarked, "so if X is O's daughter, why doesn't she live in Bangkok with O?" Yai, dtok jai maak, gasped at me "how did you know, who told you?".

I said "you just did".

True story.

It was never an option for X to become part of our family unit, since all four of her daughters were now married off, she's the designated caretaker of dTa and Yai in their dotage, she won't be free to marry until they've passed on.

O always sent some of her allowance home to pay for X's food, unlike the rest of the family she's still in school now at 13, hope she doesn't end up preggers in the next few years so she can finish.

Funny...I have the documents.....no marry....thai law at thai law offit say yes

The chances of you having paternity affirmation documents, and any form of shared custody, in Thailand with no marriage and a 2 year old Thai kid are ZERO.

If you claim you do, I'll call you a liar.

Yes you can call me a liar because I do not have a 2yo kid....however, never said I did...however I do have the same parental rights as a married father of my kids.....so stick that where the sun shines most with you by the sounds.

You are deliberately trolling.

My post was about a 2 year old Thai child with an unmarried foreign father, and you indicated I was wrong.

My post was in no way directed at you, and had no connection with your circumstances.

Why are you continually trying to degrade threads?

What is wrong with you?

Full details from a moderator

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/711467-can-a-child-born-outside-of-marriage-have-the-fathers-surname/?p=7570807

Funny...I have the documents.....no marry....thai law at thai law offit say yes

The chances of you having paternity affirmation documents, and any form of shared custody, in Thailand with no marriage and a 2 year old Thai kid are ZERO.

If you claim you do, I'll call you a liar.

Yes you can call me a liar because I do not have a 2yo kid....however, never said I did...however I do have the same parental rights as a married father of my kids.....so stick that where the sun shines most with you by the sounds.

You are deliberately trolling.

My post was about a 2 year old Thai child with an unmarried foreign father, and you indicated I was wrong.

My post was in no way directed at you, and had no connection with your circumstances.

Why are you continually trying to degrade threads?

What is wrong with you?

Full details from a moderator

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/711467-can-a-child-born-outside-of-marriage-have-the-fathers-surname/?p=7570807

Why are you trying to tell untruths ?

Plenty wrong with me...but I am not a selfish person that focus' on myself.....lets start with you ..

Please tell me the difference between a 2yo, a 5yo and a 9yo for example...although you can throw in any ages.

I know what I have because I am responsible for my kids....but you can believe whatever hogwash you have been sold...up to you.

You currently have no legal responsibilities or authorities over that child.

Funny...I have the documents.....no marry....thai law at thai law offit say yes

I do have the same parental rights as a married father of my kids.

I believe you that you think you have some documents, and maybe a lawyer told you something that either you don't understand or that was a lie.

But if you're not legally married, the fact is you have no legal connection to that child.

The upside is, if you divorce she can't require you to pay any money either.

What a croc....

Prey tell....how do you divorce if you are not married ??

Think that is proof of your mental state and ability to comprehend.

Full details from a moderator

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/711467-can-a-child-born-outside-of-marriage-have-the-fathers-surname/?p=7570807

Why are you trying to tell untruths ?

Plenty wrong with me...but I am not a selfish person that focus' on myself.....lets start with you ..

Please tell me the difference between a 2yo, a 5yo and a 9yo for example...although you can throw in any ages.

I know what I have because I am responsible for my kids....but you can believe whatever hogwash you have been sold...up to you.

The difference is ...

A 9 year old can confirm who his father is at the Amphur Office, allowing official Thai recognition.

A 2 year old can hardly speak, let alone answer questions from the Amphur official with any degree of certainty.

A 5 year old, up to the Amphur official at the time, they may say OK, they may refuse (officially they say 7 years old).

If you had followed my link, you could have read the rules for yourself.

This is not the West, the rules for being legally the father are different, the Thai Birth Certificate is not recognized as proof of parentage for the father.

So how about a 3yo...a 4yo....where is your cutoff age ??

What you speak is a croc....I have 2 kids and have the documents required.....from a very young age for one and birth for the other...

God help you if you are a unmarried parent here...or worse...if you married because of the frogshit you were scared into believeing...

So how about a 3yo...a 4yo....where is your cutoff age ??

What you speak is a croc....I have 2 kids and have the documents required.....from a very young age for one and birth for the other...

God help you if you are a unmarried parent here...or worse...if you married because of the frogshit you were scared into believeing...

Send me a scan of the documents, or send a mod a scan of the documents (I can read Thai).

These documents, issued by Thai family court, or issued by the Amphur office after meeting mother, child and you all together?

Sounds like you have no idea, and aren't considered their father in Thailand.

Not my cutoff age, but Thai law cutoff age, and that's 7 years old.

Yeah....send an anonymous knob on the internet my personal documents......standby..

A mod..... ......considering their ethics of late.

So be specific, what documents are you referring to?

Have you been through the court affirmation process or what?

The point is BY DEFAULT if you don't do something like that, just having your name on the birth certificate doesn't make them your children legally under Thai law unless you're officially married.

Leaving your particular circumstances aside, do you concede that is true?

So be specific, what documents are you referring to?

Have you been through the court affirmation process or what?

The point is BY DEFAULT if you don't do something like that, just having your name on the birth certificate doesn't make them your children legally under Thai law unless you're officially married.

Leaving your particular circumstances aside, do you concede that is true?

But that is not what you said above somewhere is it ?

Don't make me go and find it....I hate that..

So be specific, what documents are you referring to?

Have you been through the court affirmation process or what?

The point is BY DEFAULT if you don't do something like that, just having your name on the birth certificate doesn't make them your children legally under Thai law unless you're officially married.

Leaving your particular circumstances aside, do you concede that is true?

But that is not what you said above somewhere is it ?

Don't make me go and find it....I hate that..

Maybe you're mixing me up with 52, or maybe I was wrong no problem.

Rather than extending the arguing how about clarifying the issue, and where you see that others' statements are true, confirm that your experience agrees.

For the benefit of the informational value of this medium, actually contribute details as to how you accomplished your achievement.