Testosterone - legal and available in Thailand?

[h90]

According to Tim Ward the majority of the stuff the pharmacies sell is fake.

Get it in your home country before you go,

I doubt that....

I don't.

Ridiculous. Testosterone Depot is straight From Bayer in Germany. After 30+ years of HRT I can say this with absolute certainty.

Actually I never heard that pharmacies in Thailand sell fake products. I can't exclude that there are some in Thailand but surely it is the minority.

Add: and Testosterone is a relative cheap product....if someone want to fake something he would fake something expensive....

Edited October 11, 2014 by h90

[ClutchClark]

I doubt that....

I don't.

Ridiculous. Testosterone Depot is straight From Bayer in Germany. After 30+ years of HRT I can say this with absolute certainty.

Actually I never heard that pharmacies in Thailand sell fake products. I can't exclude that there are some in Thailand but surely it is the minority.

Add: and Testosterone is a relative cheap product....if someone want to fake something he would fake something expensive....

I have read pharmacies in Thailand are notorious for selling poor quality scripts. Mind you, not Boots.

There is even a current thread about flea & tick medications for dogs being fake over here.

I would agree that there is a direct correlation between the unit cost of the medication and the risk of it being copied in some bathtub in China. I was speaking in a general sense that fake and diluted prescriptions are far more common here than in a developed country. Geez, Thais love to sell fake <delete> to make a profit.

On that note, if it wasn't for the FDA and strong enforcement measures in the US, there are many such scumbags there as well ;-)

Edited October 11, 2014 by ClutchClark

[GaryB1263]

Exactly and well said. I can vouch for Testosterone and HGH. I know what it looks like and smells(HGH) like.

Some people would swear that Bayer Aspirin is a copy

[ClutchClark]

According to Tim Ward the majority of the stuff the pharmacies sell is fake.

Get it in your home country before you go,

I doubt that....

I don't.

Ridiculous. Testosterone Depot is straight From Bayer in Germany. After 30+ years of HRT I can say this with absolute certainty.

OK. As long as its direct from Bayer. You obviously have the experience to know if the efficacy of a locally filed prescription of TD is weaker or not.

I don't mess around with my various medications by buying at some of these mom&pop shops. I will only buy from Boots if I don't bring a large enough supply with me from US.

Great thread, highly informative.

Edited October 11, 2014 by ClutchClark

[elliss]

If you have LOW testosterone you may be more sedentary which would probably not benefit your heart or the way you feel.

I think it's generally accepted a healthy T level goes with a more active person.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I enquired about having injections to increase my testosterone levels .

My local Doctor, who I have visited many times , and he is very keen on making a baht, on meds sales,

He would not supply or inject me , because the risk of prostrate cancer was too high

SO , let things happen naturally . prostrate cancer risks?,,,, NO THANK YOU.

Edited October 11, 2014 by elliss

[h90]

I don't.

Ridiculous. Testosterone Depot is straight From Bayer in Germany. After 30+ years of HRT I can say this with absolute certainty.

Actually I never heard that pharmacies in Thailand sell fake products. I can't exclude that there are some in Thailand but surely it is the minority.

Add: and Testosterone is a relative cheap product....if someone want to fake something he would fake something expensive....

I have read pharmacies in Thailand are notorious for selling poor quality scripts. Mind you, not Boots.

There is even a current thread about flea & tick medications for dogs being fake over here.

I would agree that there is a direct correlation between the unit cost of the medication and the risk of it being copied in some bathtub in China. I was speaking in a general sense that fake and diluted prescriptions are far more common here than in a developed country. Geez, Thais love to sell fake <delete> to make a profit.

On that note, if it wasn't for the FDA and strong enforcement measures in the US, there are many such scumbags there as well ;-)

If you buy a Bayer product and it is not from Bayer (like the 1000 Baht Rolex) than it is fake.

If you buy Xi Lim Testosterone and is only 90 % as strong as the Bayer than it is a poor quality Chinese product, but still not fake.

I must admit that I never knew that a pharmacy has flea & tick medications for dogs.....Different than in Europe I never saw fresh mixed products in Pharmacies here, so I doubt someone will open the testosterone, Aspirin or other medications to dilute them. They may sell cheaper local brands which you can believe in or not.

A Toyota and a BMW with the same specifications are also in different quality....same for medications.

[h90]

If you have LOW testosterone you may be more sedentary which would probably not benefit your heart or the way you feel.

I think it's generally accepted a healthy T level goes with a more active person.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I enquired about having injections to increase my testosterone levels .

My local Doctor, who I have visited many times , and he is very keen on making a baht, on meds sales,

He would not supply or inject me , because the risk of prostrate cancer was too high

SO , let things happen naturally . prostrate cancer risks?,,,, NO THANK YOU.

Others have other opinion....I can't judge it myself....

[ClutchClark]

Actually I never heard that pharmacies in Thailand sell fake products. I can't exclude that there are some in Thailand but surely it is the minority.

Add: and Testosterone is a relative cheap product....if someone want to fake something he would fake something expensive....

I have read pharmacies in Thailand are notorious for selling poor quality scripts. Mind you, not Boots.

There is even a current thread about flea & tick medications for dogs being fake over here.

I would agree that there is a direct correlation between the unit cost of the medication and the risk of it being copied in some bathtub in China. I was speaking in a general sense that fake and diluted prescriptions are far more common here than in a developed country. Geez, Thais love to sell fake <delete> to make a profit.

On that note, if it wasn't for the FDA and strong enforcement measures in the US, there are many such scumbags there as well ;-)

If you buy a Bayer product and it is not from Bayer (like the 1000 Baht Rolex) than it is fake.

If you buy Xi Lim Testosterone and is only 90 % as strong as the Bayer than it is a poor quality Chinese product, but still not fake.

I must admit that I never knew that a pharmacy has flea & tick medications for dogs.....Different than in Europe I never saw fresh mixed products in Pharmacies here, so I doubt someone will open the testosterone, Aspirin or other medications to dilute them. They may sell cheaper local brands which you can believe in or not.

A Toyota and a BMW with the same specifications are also in different quality....same for medications.

I am talking about the manufacture of pharma products outside of a lab (for instance, some shack in India) and lacking any type of quality control.

http://m.scidev.net/global/health/feature/counterfeit-drugs-facts-figures-1.html

http://travel.cnn.com/explorations/life/travel-sick-thats-because-drugs-dont-work-200769

The analogy of a Toyota vs BMW does not apply to medications which are all required to meet a specific chemical standard and specific quantity. When you are prescribed 80-gram daily dose of Lipitor, then you should have an expectation of receiving exactly an 80-gram dose of Lipitor. Not 60-grams, not laced with something else, etc..

But its possible we have different expectations so I am only saying this is what I personally expect when I buy a medication and I feel more confident receiving that when I purchase it in a country or when it is manufactured IN a country (German Bayer) with a strong regulatory agency like the US FDA combined with an aggressive enforcement agency.

It has not been my experience that Thailand qualifies.

Again, thanks everyone for this highly informative thread!

Edited October 11, 2014 by ClutchClark

[h90]

Actually I never heard that pharmacies in Thailand sell fake products. I can't exclude that there are some in Thailand but surely it is the minority.

Add: and Testosterone is a relative cheap product....if someone want to fake something he would fake something expensive....

I have read pharmacies in Thailand are notorious for selling poor quality scripts. Mind you, not Boots.

There is even a current thread about flea & tick medications for dogs being fake over here.

I would agree that there is a direct correlation between the unit cost of the medication and the risk of it being copied in some bathtub in China. I was speaking in a general sense that fake and diluted prescriptions are far more common here than in a developed country. Geez, Thais love to sell fake <delete> to make a profit.

On that note, if it wasn't for the FDA and strong enforcement measures in the US, there are many such scumbags there as well ;-)

If you buy a Bayer product and it is not from Bayer (like the 1000 Baht Rolex) than it is fake.

If you buy Xi Lim Testosterone and is only 90 % as strong as the Bayer than it is a poor quality Chinese product, but still not fake.

I must admit that I never knew that a pharmacy has flea & tick medications for dogs.....Different than in Europe I never saw fresh mixed products in Pharmacies here, so I doubt someone will open the testosterone, Aspirin or other medications to dilute them. They may sell cheaper local brands which you can believe in or not.

A Toyota and a BMW with the same specifications are also in different quality....same for medications.

I am talking about the manufacture of pharma products outside of a lab (for instance, some shack in India) and lacking any type of quality control.

http://m.scidev.net/global/health/feature/counterfeit-drugs-facts-figures-1.html

http://travel.cnn.com/explorations/life/travel-sick-thats-because-drugs-dont-work-200769

The analogy of a Toyota vs BMW does not apply to medications which are all required to meet a specific chemical standard and specific quantity. When you are prescribed 80-gram daily dose of Lipitor, then you should have an expectation of receiving exactly an 80-gram dose of Lipitor. Not 60-grams, not laced with something else, etc..

But its possible we have different expectations so I am only saying this is what I personally expect when I buy a medication and I feel more confident receiving that when I purchase it in a country or when it is manufactured IN a country (German Bayer) with a strong regulatory agency like the US FDA combined with an aggressive enforcement agency.

It has not been my experience that Thailand qualifies.

Again, thanks everyone for this highly informative thread!

Well everyone with half a brain knows that the Viagra on the street are fake. But a brand name bought in pharmacy is usually what is written on it. No matter if it is an Indian product or a German one. I don't know if Thai pharmacies have medications produced in shacks in India, but I doubt it. But if you stick to the known brands I don't see any reason for worry.

[Farma]

@ClutchClark

Where do you imagine these mom and pop stores get their meds from?

If it's a licenced pharmacy they are supplied directly from med company sales reps or from licenced wholesale pharmaceutical warehouses. The Thai GPO Government Pharmaceutical Organization produces a lot of the generic meds you see in pharmacies.

The Thai FDA also monitor and register meds for sale. Pharmacies are also inspected by MoPH each year. Thai FDA also issues alerts and medication recalls to pharmacists or warehouses if they detect defects or copies entering the supply chain.

Testoserone tablets and injections are readily available to pharmacies from these wholesale warehouses. Individual pharmacies or pharmacists decide if they wish to stock it. There are differing grades of pharmacy Some don't stock some meds as there isn't the demand to do so. Others don't stock injections out of choice. You can always ask your local pharmacy to order some in if you want.

I honestly can't see a pharmacy risking its licence and large fines, possibly jail, just to save a couple of Baht knowingly selling fake meds.

[ClutchClark]

@ClutchClark

Where do you imagine these mom and pop stores get their meds from?

If it's a licenced pharmacy they are supplied directly from med company sales reps or from licenced wholesale pharmaceutical warehouses. The Thai GPO Government Pharmaceutical Organization produces a lot of the generic meds you see in pharmacies.

The Thai FDA also monitor and register meds for sale. Pharmacies are also inspected by MoPH each year. Thai FDA also issues alerts and medication recalls to pharmacists or warehouses if they detect defects or copies entering the supply chain.

Testoserone tablets and injections are readily available to pharmacies from these wholesale warehouses. Individual pharmacies or pharmacists decide if they wish to stock it. There are differing grades of pharmacy Some don't stock some meds as there isn't the demand to do so. Others don't stock injections out of choice. You can always ask your local pharmacy to order some in if you want.

I honestly can't see a pharmacy risking its licence and large fines, possibly jail, just to save a couple of Baht knowingly selling fake meds.

Your argument is not with me, its with the authors of the overwhelming number of articles and investigations of "bogus medications in Asia" easily found on Google.

As I have clearly indicated numerous times, do what you want, but I will buy my various medications from the US or from Boots.

To the OP, I apologize for moving your thread in this direction, it was never my intent. Great thread--highly informative.

Cheers

Edited October 11, 2014 by ClutchClark

[ding]

If you have LOW testosterone you may be more sedentary which would probably not benefit your heart or the way you feel.

I think it's generally accepted a healthy T level goes with a more active person.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I enquired about having injections to increase my testosterone levels .

My local Doctor, who I have visited many times , and he is very keen on making a baht, on meds sales,

He would not supply or inject me , because the risk of prostrate cancer was too high

SO , let things happen naturally . prostrate cancer risks?,,,, NO THANK YOU.

Been on TRT for a while now and my PSA is actually improving. I get BW every 2-3 months. Once cancer is present, Test will increase the speed of growth - but 3 months is not an issue with prostae cancer - very slow growth.

My lipids have taken a bad turn since doing the KETO (LCHF) diet, however.

My blood sugar IR score .9, Body Fat %, HDL, Apo-B, TriGlycerides, C-reactive protein .8 ...all improved on KETO.

But my LDL-C ...

LDL-C is 206

LDL-P is 2,458

My LDL type is large & fluffy, not small & dense - good news some say.

Doc wants me on statins, She's smart and wants to see how I do off KETO with increased veggies & fiber first.

[cheeryble]

I enquired about having injections to increase my testosterone levels .

My local Doctor, who I have visited many times , and he is very keen on making a baht, on meds sales,

He would not supply or inject me , because the risk of prostrate cancer was too high

SO , let things happen naturally . prostrate cancer risks?,,,, NO THANK YOU.

I always found it odd that when T levels go down (older age), prostate cancers increased.

Try reading this it strongly suggests the conventional view on T and PC is in fact topsy turvy.

It goes into how the T>PC view was falsely compiled on erroneous, lacking, or misleading data, and may be increasing rather than decreasing risk.

http://www.lef.org/Magazine/2008/12/Destroying-the-Myth-about-Testosterone-Replacement-Prostate-Cancer/Page-02

I only read this recently and have not had time to search for any criticism or lack of, but the prima facie case sounds convincing or at least worthy of further investigation.

If views changed, your local doctor in Thailand would be the last to change.

There's a saying that it takes years to convince a medical journal to publish a view, but takes it decades to remove it.

Edited November 4, 2014 by cheeryble

[ding]

I enquired about having injections to increase my testosterone levels .

My local Doctor, who I have visited many times , and he is very keen on making a baht, on meds sales,

He would not supply or inject me , because the risk of prostrate cancer was too high

SO , let things happen naturally . prostrate cancer risks?,,,, NO THANK YOU.

I always found it odd that when T levels go down (older age), prostate cancers increased.

Try reading this it strongly suggests the conventional view on T and PC is in fact topsy turvy.

It goes into how the T>PC view was falsely compiled on erroneous, lacking, or misleading data, and may be increasing rather than decreasing risk.

http://www.lef.org/Magazine/2008/12/Destroying-the-Myth-about-Testosterone-Replacement-Prostate-Cancer/Page-02

I only read this recently and have not had time to search for any criticism or lack of, but the prima facie case sounds convincing or at least worthy of further investigation.

If views changed, your local doctor in Thailand would be the last to change.

There's a saying that it takes years to convince a medical journal to publish a view, but takes it decades to remove it.

"...To date, as documented in many reviews on the subject, nothing has been found to support the evidence that restoring testosterone levels within normal range increases the incidence of prostate cancer. In our experience, during a long-term clinical study including 200 hypogonadal patients receiving a patch of testosterone, 50 patients ended 5 years of treatment and no prostate cancer have been reported. In fact, the incidence of prostate cancer in primary or secondary testosterone treated hypogonadal men is lower than the incidence observed in the untreated eugonadal population..."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19429438

Edited November 13, 2014 by ding

[Sheryl]

The concern re testosterone and prostate cancer has never been that it would cause it, only that if it is already present, the rate of growth of the tumor might be accelerated.

Screening first to rule out a pre-existing cancer before starting T replacement is advisable.

[rhythmworx]

Not recommended if you have vein problems or thrombophilia though, every case is different..

[cdmtdm]

try Cordyceps ...but do not give it to your missus until you have been on them for a month ..women respond far more quickly than men ..100% natural and works a treat ...works on many levels not just testosterone.....

[jonnyramone]

I'm also on TRT (testosterone replacemant therapy) since 2 years. No sides if you get the right dosage from a certified endoc.(wich is most of the time 200/250 mg. every 10 days). I suggest testoviron 250 from Bayer-Shering wich is definetely REAL. Other brands might be fake . You can buy it to any serious pharmacy (Fascino or Boots as well). I tried Andriol tablets as well, but it's weaker and more expensive that the injectable one.(you have to take 6 tablets a day to feel something.) The gel seems to be the best form,and you can find it only in big Hospital around Thailand under prescription (Bumrungr., Samjtivey, Bangkok Pattaya, etc.) it is very expensive too. Vial is the cheapest solution.

Edited November 16, 2014 by jonnyramone

[cheeryble]

A surprising twist in the testosterone/prostate cancer story:

UP the testosterone!

http://urology.jhu.edu/newsletter/2014/prostate_cancer_2014_55.php

[ding]

I'm also on TRT (testosterone replacemant therapy) since 2 years. No sides if you get the right dosage from a certified endoc.(wich is most of the time 200/250 mg. every 10 days). I suggest testoviron 250 from Bayer-Shering wich is definetely REAL. Other brands might be fake . You can buy it to any serious pharmacy (Fascino or Boots as well). I tried Andriol tablets as well, but it's weaker and more expensive that the injectable one.(you have to take 6 tablets a day to feel something.) The gel seems to be the best form,and you can find it only in big Hospital around Thailand under prescription (Bumrungr., Samjtivey, Bangkok Pattaya, etc.) it is very expensive too. Vial is the cheapest solution.

Orals toxify the liver which has many essential functions beyond filtering. I would never do pills. In fact, the reason for transdermal gels is to avoid loading the liver IIRC. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

That 10 day interval is long. Cypionate has a longer carbon chain and its 1/2 life is longer. With 10 days and 200-250mg you may see aromatization and your estradiol will rise. Gynocomastia (sp?) is tough to get rid of and unless you have tamoxifen (Soltamox) and raloxifene (Evista) on hand when nips get puffy & sensitive you may not head it off. Then it's surgery.

I use 80mg every 7 days IM cypionate with 1/2mg Anastrozole 24 hrs later - and respond very well to that.

I do worry about Anastrozole raising my cholesterol (LDL-C) however.

I have never cycled steroids and only on doctor prescribed TRT - my info is from personal interest research only and I'm no expert. Just want to help if I can.

EDIT TO ADD; This time I'm bringing my own syringes and needles from the US with me... very cheap and no hassle from pharmacies or hospitals in LOS.

Edited December 13, 2014 by ding

[jonnyramone]

I'm also on TRT (testosterone replacemant therapy) since 2 years. No sides if you get the right dosage from a certified endoc.(wich is most of the time 200/250 mg. every 10 days). I suggest testoviron 250 from Bayer-Shering wich is definetely REAL. Other brands might be fake . You can buy it to any serious pharmacy (Fascino or Boots as well). I tried Andriol tablets as well, but it's weaker and more expensive that the injectable one.(you have to take 6 tablets a day to feel something.) The gel seems to be the best form,and you can find it only in big Hospital around Thailand under prescription (Bumrungr., Samjtivey, Bangkok Pattaya, etc.) it is very expensive too. Vial is the cheapest solution.

Orals toxify the liver which has many essential functions beyond filtering. I would never do pills. In fact, the reason for transdermal gels is to avoid loading the liver IIRC. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

That 10 day interval is long. Cypionate has a longer carbon chain and its 1/2 life is longer. With 10 days and 200-250mg you may see aromatization and your estradiol will rise. Gynocomastia (sp?) is tough to get rid of and unless you have tamoxifen (Soltamox) and raloxifene (Evista) on hand when nips get puffy & sensitive you may not head it off. Then it's surgery.

I use 80mg every 7 days IM cypionate with 1/2mg Anastrozole 24 hrs later - and respond very well to that.

I do worry about Anastrozole raising my cholesterol (LDL-C) however.

I have never cycled steroids and only on doctor prescribed TRT - my info is from personal interest research only and I'm no expert. Just want to help if I can.

EDIT TO ADD; This time I'm bringing my own syringes and needles from the US with me... very cheap and no hassle from pharmacies or hospitals in LOS.

Dear friend, good thing about andriol is that's absorbed through the lymphatic system so not big issue for liver , bad thing about it is that its bioavailability is very weak, it does mean you should take at least 6 to 8 tablets a day every 6 hours....I don't know where you can get cypionate in Thailand, the reason why I mentioned Testoviron before is because it's 100 % real from Bayer-Shering Thailand . Unless you're Cypionate is from Pharmacia/Pfizer or Schein (both certified american brands) I would be very carefull before use it. So many fakes in Thailand....

80 mg. every 7 days is a good dosage anyway, it will keep your testosterone stable, I don't know why you need Arimidex (anastrozole) instead.... you should take it only in case of severe gyno, otherwise I would go for 50 mg. of proviron (mesterolone) every day during TRT.

Tamoxifene (Nolvadex) is good for PCT, Post cycle therapy, I used it after the cycle to boost my gonads and testosterone, it worked always very good, better than clomid.

Be carefull with Anastrozole, suppressing estrogen levels it may affect your sex drive badly...Estrogens are very important for libido too .

[sanuk711]

LONG TERM Testosterone Therapy Safety Reaffirmed---PUBLIC RELEASE DATE: 25-Nov-2014

New study in The Journal of Urology analyzed results from three independent registries, 17 years with a median follow-up of approximately 5 years

Although there is no evidence that T therapy increases the risk of prostate cancer (PCa), there were still concerns and a paucity of long-term data. In a new study in The Journal of Urology®, investigators examined three parallel, prospective, ongoing, cumulative registry studies of over 1,000 men. Their analysis showed that long-term T therapy in hypogonadal men is safe and does not increase the risk of PCa.

This report will be released next week, but link to the full report below.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-11/ehs-ltt112514.php

[cdmtdm]

i am not sure why you would chose a synthetic product to enhance testosterone when a 100% natural product is available ?.... Cordyceps ...www.thaiherbsonline.com ..... yes natural products may take a little longer but they have none of the risky side effects .....

[h90]

i am not sure why you would chose a synthetic product to enhance testosterone when a 100% natural product is available ?.... Cordyceps ...www.thaiherbsonline.com ..... yes natural products may take a little longer but they have none of the risky side effects .....

if it really increases the Testosterone it will have the same side effects. If it does nothing it won't have side effects.

[jonnyramone]

i am not sure why you would chose a synthetic product to enhance testosterone when a 100% natural product is available ?.... Cordyceps ...www.thaiherbsonline.com ..... yes natural products may take a little longer but they have none of the risky side effects .....

All these stuff like Tribulus Terrestris, gynco, serenoa repens, etc.etc. will not increas testosterone. There are some other hormones able to do that , like HCG or Nolvadex,Clomid, etc.etc.with other side effects.

Feeling better taking herbs has nothing to do with testosterone .

Zinc is good for prostate , it can help an healthy man to keep stable his testosterone level too

but it won't increase more testosterone in the body. So if your testosterone is naturally high, you could keep your own level stable taking zinc , eating well, sleeping good,etc.etc.

Unfortunately most of the men, me included, see their testosterone levels decline badly after 40, that's the reason why I'm on TRT. Testosterone Replacement Therapy is perfectly legal and it can be prescribed by any certified endochrinologist around the world.

Low testosterone levels is not only related on low sex drive, muscles,etc.etc. , it's related on many other serious symptoms .

Edited December 20, 2014 by jonnyramone

[cdmtdm]

i am not sure why you would chose a synthetic product to enhance testosterone when a 100% natural product is available ?.... Cordyceps ...www.thaiherbsonline.com ..... yes natural products may take a little longer but they have none of the risky side effects .....

if it really increases the Testosterone it will have the same side effects. If it does nothing it won't have side effects.

steroids raise testosterone is that good ? zinc, magnesium , more sleep , more sex and cordyceps works for me ..... and exercise !!

[h90]

i am not sure why you would chose a synthetic product to enhance testosterone when a 100% natural product is available ?.... Cordyceps ...www.thaiherbsonline.com ..... yes natural products may take a little longer but they have none of the risky side effects .....

if it really increases the Testosterone it will have the same side effects. If it does nothing it won't have side effects.

steroids raise testosterone is that good ? zinc, magnesium , more sleep , more sex and cordyceps works for me ..... and exercise !!

that a healthy lifestyle is better than injecting Testosterone is obvious.

But I doubt the Cordyceps will help much.

[cdmtdm]

you doubt it why ? guessing or personal experience ?

[cheeryble]

Testosterone gel seems far the best delivery method.

No needles and big boost on one day, it is steady through the month and it follows the body's natural daily cycle of TLevels.

It used not to be available in Thailand and expensive abroad.

Is anyone accessing the gel here or abroad and what are you paying?

[A1Str8]

Did your squat go up since you have been taking it?