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      Thailand Live Saturday 12 October 2024

Credit cards from other countries


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I am moving to Thailand in the next year to retire with Thai wife. One thing we were thinking of is the 100K plus in available credit we have on credit cards. Anyone have experience using cards from other countries other than the foreign transaction fee? Specifically, will the banks from America mail my statements to me along with all the junk advertising each month? What are the new rules for debt collection?

Any information would be great. Dont want to try to rebuild credit in Thailand if I dont have to. My main purpose will be to buy airline tickets and other things online

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Don't burn your bridges; I would suggest you keep a home base there, even if it's just a virtual one, through a reliable and flexible maildrop service.

The computer systems keeping track of you there don't need to know - and IMO you shouldn't let them know - that your physical body is spending most of its time overseas.

Try to keep paying some utility etc bills coming in your name and other at least minimal traces to make it seem like you're still resident there.

Maintain your drivers license, voter registration etc.

Whatever minor ongoing extra costs are incurred are worth every penny to maintain an official presence in civilization while you are exploring the jungles of Asia.

Edited by wym
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One thing I think you should look out for when using a foreign card in Thailand is that many stores, especially larger chains such as Central, often try to make you use their bank's dynamic currency conversion rate and pay in your home currency. This basically means you get a much worse rate than you would with Visa's published rates. I have encountered assistants who try to be difficult when I insist they reverse the transaction and do it again in Thai Baht.

Edited by inthepink
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It's very important to keep your home country credit cards, because you may not be able to apply for a new card without proof of residence. I have kept four US credit cards current and would never take out a Thai credit card. The main reason is the liability risk. US cards have no liability for fraudulent use. With Thai cards you are on the hook. We use each of our four credit cards each month. We use the Amex cards only for purchases within the US like subscriptions, plane tickets, ebooks, occasional purchase from Amazon, trips back to the US, etc. We use the VISA and MC cards only for purchases here in Thailand at shopping malls and supermarkets, mostly. Since we never use a card out of its zone of use, we never get transactions refused by the lender because of foreign use.

We have enabled online billing for all credit card companies. So, we never get a bill in the mail. We keep a US mailing address at a mail forwarder in Florida which the credit card companies know as our only address. They also have a US VOIP phone number which rings in our apartment here in Bangkok. The credit card companies have called on occasion with fraud inquiries. We also keep several bank and credit union accounts in the US which we use to pay the credit card bills electronically.

Opening a bank account in the US while living abroad is even more difficult than applying for a credit card. It's therefore important to open lots of bank accounts before leaving.

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Don't burn your bridges; I would suggest you keep a home base there, even if it's just a virtual one, through a reliable and flexible maildrop service.

The computer systems keeping track of you there don't need to know - and IMO you shouldn't let them know - that your physical body is spending most of its time overseas.

Try to keep paying some utility etc bills coming in your name and other at least minimal traces to make it seem like you're still resident there.

Maintain your drivers license, voter registration etc.

Whatever minor ongoing extra costs are incurred are worth every penny to maintain an official presence in civilization while you are exploring the jungles of Asia.

Keeping card or two is true and a good idea as it is not likely you will even qualify for a card in Thailand unless you secure it. But calling it the "jungles of Asia" when much of Asia is more developed than the USA and have a much longer record of civilization - not so much true.

I changed a Chase card to my local address in Thailand and do not receive any mailings here - but credit limits have not increased (or decreased). Only use locally in emergency (hospital bill payment or such) - but do use for mail order and PayPal. Much better to have local accounts and use local debit/ATM cards for payment in Thailand. Be sure to keep at least one or two US bank accounts open for same foreign purchase/travel payment reasons.

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Definitely keep your U.S. debit/credit cards. And be sure to get some debit/credit cards that do not charge a foreign transaction fee. Many people while living in their home country don't even know if their cards have foreign transaction fees since the fee don't apply in their home country/region of the world, but once using the cards outside their home country those foreign transaction/cross border fees kick-in and can be healthy in size (3% or more)...plus you got the varying currency exchange issue also....foreign transaction fees starts getting your attention then...if it don't get your attention then a person is just stupid or has too much money, with the later being a good thing.

The wife and I use our U.S. Capital One Visa and Mastercard cards in Thailand almost on a daily basis....have so for years....these cards have a 1.5% cash back program, no foreign transaction fee, and of course you are covered under U.S. Consumer Protection laws versus the weak Thai consumer protection laws (more like bank protection laws).

And I use to use a couple of U.S. no foreign transaction fee debit cards...Schwab is one of them... to get all of my day-to-day living money from AEON ATMs...however, but since AEON very recently also started charging a Bt150 withdrawal fee for foreign cards like Thai banks have been doing for years (AEON got infected by the bankers fee disease), I have basically stopped that although both my debit cards would reimburse those fees...however I don't want to help kill the Reimbursement Golden Goose and draw too much attention to myself by causing my debit card issuing banks to spend a lot of money on me....they then may decide to find a way to offload me/close my account. I now plan only to use those debit cards for withdrawals if I can't get money cheaply via another method...I'll save those cards for occasional use outside of the U.S. I know use another method my using a PenFed credit card to do a bank counter cash advance which DOES NOT have a cash advance fee (one of the few credit cards in the U.S. with this benefit), no foreign transaction fee, and I make a same day payment in full electronically to prevent any interest charge. Usually better to get a Visa debit/credit card over Mastercard since the Visa exchange rate is usually a little better.

Be sure to maintain a U.S. address via family/friends if possible...later on you find out through personal experience how that is very important. And switch to getting your monthly statements via Bill Pay, estatement, etc...and also pay via Bill Pay, on the card website, etc. Drop the paper bill/check mailings and if you expect to be able to pay credit card bills by mail/check from Thailand you are probably going to end up with a lot of late/missing payments and a lower credit report score due to missed/late payments which is not a good thing. I would tell you to switch to ebilling/epayments even if living in the U.S....heck, I've been operating that way in the U.S. and Thailand for so long I can't even remember how long it's been.

Summary: get some no foreign transaction fee debit and credit cards "before" you move to Thailand as it can get much harder without a U.S. address and after you move...switch to electronic statements/payments....and maintain a U.S. address via family/friend/etc. Good luck.

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Yes, keep your US bank accounts and credit cards. Go online and choose "paperless" or similar so that all you get is an emailed bill. Then you pay it electronically from a US bank.

And as for the comment "jungle" I took it as about the security and consumer protection in the US. By Federal law you are liable only for the first $50 of credit card fraud with your card, and most banks waive that. By US law, if you dispute a charge with a merchant, the credit card company has a limited time to investigate and most of the time you will get your money refunded and the merchant will get a charge back. This includes defective merchandise, and any other disputes.

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Be sure to maintain a U.S. address via family/friends if possible...later on you find out through personal experience how that is very important.

In my opinion it is better to use a mail forwarding service that provides a mailing address in a no-income-tax state. Using the address of family/friends in an income tax state could very well result in a tax domicile audit by that state which usually begins with a demand for back taxes, interest and penalties. In some states, like CA, using an in-state address is sufficient to establish tax domicile in the state.

My mail forwarder charges $20/month plus actual scanning or forwarding service charges.

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I have US bank accounts, securities accounts and credit cards and all have my address in Thailand. Statements and payments are received and sent electronically. I do not maintain any address in the US because as CaptHaddock points out by having this some states automatically assume you are living there and it may result in a tax domicile audit.

I forgot to change my address on a Capital One online banking account and sure enough the state of California staring sending me tax demands on the interest earned.

If you are not living in the US you do not need a US address, driving licence, voters registation etc unless of course you are planning on returning in the near future.

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I have US bank accounts, securities accounts and credit cards and all have my address in Thailand. Statements and payments are received and sent electronically. I do not maintain any address in the US because as CaptHaddock points out by having this some states automatically assume you are living there and it may result in a tax domicile audit.

I forgot to change my address on a Capital One online banking account and sure enough the state of California staring sending me tax demands on the interest earned.

If you are not living in the US you do not need a US address, driving licence, voters registation etc unless of course you are planning on returning in the near future.

Some US brokerage firms will restrict your trading or even close your accounts if you list a foreign address as your home address. The US financial markets are the most developed in the world with the lowest cost mutual funds. Banks and brokerage firms that do not currently restrict an expats access might decide to do so in the future.

Americans will need a US bank account to receive SS payments, unless you are willing to accept the additional burdens that accompany using a Bangkok Bank account for that purpose. Some online retailers will refuse to ship to Thailand, but will ship to your forwarder who can ship it on to you.

Finally, virtually none of us US expats here actually have the right to live in Thailand. We should all consider the possibility that at some point we might want to consider returning to the US. That's not my current intention and it may not be yours, but it would be prudent to retain the ability to do so, should the need arise. For this reason it seems to me the most sensible approach is to maintain a US presence (mailing address, credit cards, bank accounts, phone number, even Medicare registration), which, fortunately, is easy to do nowadays and not very expensive.

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Yes keep a credit card from where you come from. Always useful to have a spare and in case you go back.

Also bear in mind where your income source is to pay it off.

The consumer protection may not be as strong as US. But if you re sensible and responsible you ll be fine.

I hardly ever use my card from where I come from.

I always use my local credit card. Very convenient. Especially as I also have assets and income in Thailand.

Gets you all sort of promotions and discounts often not available to foreign cards. Thais often have a selection from different banks just for this purpose and to get the best rates everywhere.

The cash backs I get are great. I get about THB 1,500 a month for using in petrol stations restaurants etc. I also get points on a system as good as any I ve had overseas. Last month I cashed them in after a couple of years for THB 36K cash on one card and 7k on another :)

Much better also then debit cards.

Never had a problem with my Thai cards. It can be a hassle dealing with an admin problem on your overseas card if you re in Thailand.

Cheers

Fletch :)

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited by fletchsmile
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It would be advisable before giving them a new address outside the US to ask their policy regarding automatic closure of accounts. Financial institutions are all running scared of the IRS and the heavy handed FATCA reporting requirements such that many banks and brokerages simply close your account if you give them a foreign address. Check first. By all means maintain some US address, either a forwarding service or use the address of a friend/relative.

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This is a naive assessment of the risks of fraud. Some years before we moved to Thailand we were here on a visit. During that trip I paid cash for everything except for our stay in a Bangkok hotel which I used my Amex card just that once. When I got back to the US I found that someone had made fraudulent charges amounting to $10,000 on my card. So, I phoned Amex and identified the fraudulent charges all of which were immediately dropped without any discussion. Worked just the way it is supposed to. I still have that Amex account.

When you assume responsibility for fraudulent charges on your credit card you accept a liability right up to your credit limit on each card. A prudent person does not willingly assume such a risk, if it can be avoided. It would be especially shortsighted to forgo such effective protection in exchange for a few discounts.

Yes keep a credit card from where you come from. Always useful to have a spare and in case you go back.

Also bear in mind where your income source is to pay it off.

The consumer protection may not be as strong as US. But if you re sensible and responsible you ll be fine.

I hardly ever use my card from where I come from.

I always use my local credit card. Very convenient. Especially as I also have assets and income in Thailand.

Gets you all sort of promotions and discounts often not available to foreign cards. Thais often have a selection from different banks just for this purpose and to get the best rates everywhere.

The cash backs I get are great. I get about THB 1,500 a month for using in petrol stations restaurants etc. I also get points on a system as good as any I ve had overseas. Last month I cashed them in after a couple of years for THB 36K cash on one card and 7k on another smile.png

Much better also then debit cards.

Never had a problem with my Thai cards. It can be a hassle dealing with an admin problem on your overseas card if you re in Thailand.

Cheers
Fletch smile.png

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited by CaptHaddock
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About six months ago one of my U.S. credit cards had some fraudulent transactions occurring in Phoenix, Arizona, U.S.A. One for food at a restaurant and one for some temporary charge...I rarely use this particular card except for some occasional Ebay buys just to keep it active since it carries a foreign transaction fee...the card basically lives in the darkness of my Bangkok home safe....and of course I've been in Bangkok for years now and never, ever been to Phoenix. Anyway, I noticed the transactions when logging onto my bank account...I called the bank which issued the card told them about the fraudulent transactions, 3 business days later the charges was removed from my account, and the bank rush mailed me a new card with new account number. Last time something like this happened was around 10 years ago when I was still living in the States, got a call one day from the Bank of America credit card folks saying there was some possible fraudulent transactions occurring on my card...someone in Spain (I've never been there either) had done some online transactions using my card number....I confirmed it was not me...once again the transactions were removed within a few business days and they rushed me a new card. Now how did the bad guys get my credit card numbers...I couldn't say...the probably hacked some databases somewhere...who knows. In both cases all I had to do was make a call to the card issuing banks, answer the few questions they had, and they took it from there. Two of my personally experienced examples of U.S. credit/debit card consumer protection.

Edited by Pib
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A lot of good advice that should be heeded here:

Keep all your U.S. credit card and bank card accounts, and try to keep a U.S. address for them, either via family or via a mail forwarding service. As has been pointed out, because of the Patriot Act and such, some U.S. financial companies will restrict and even close accounts held abroad, if you officially tell them that via an address change.

Also, as long as you stick with no foreign currency fee U.S. credit cards like Capital One and others, there's basically no reason to get Thai credit cards, especially as a retiree. The fraud liability policies are like night and day different. And, unless you're going to have a Thai work permit here, which someone retiring here generally wouldn't have, the Thai banks generally won't issue Thai credit cards to farangs -- unless you put down a sizeable frozen deposit of funds to guarantee your potential debit. And of course their standard interest rate on revolving balances is 20%!

You've spent a lifetime building a U.S. credit profile. Even if you're planning to move to Thailand now, keep what you've already arranged in terms of your U.S. credit presence. If for no other reason, just so you'd have that in the event you ever decided to move back to the U.S., either temporarily or permanently. You don't even have to use the credit cards often, but just a purchase once a year or so will keep them active. And even ones with foreign currency fees can still be used without any disadvantage for U.S.-based purchases, such as paying for a mail forwarding service, buying from Amazon, travel purchases, etc etc.

As for statements, every U.S. financial institution I know, these days, is encouraging their customers to switch to electronic/online account statements instead of paper mailed ones, because of the cost savings to them in reduced mailings. So that part should be easy. Then, the only things you need to handle via mail forwarding are you annual tax documents (although those often can be handled online as well) and the every few years card renewal/reissuance mailings.

Likewise, every U.S. credit card issuer I know allows its cardholders to pay their monthly bill/balance via the Internet, by debiting a savings or checking account you've linked in the credit card's online setup. So there definitely should be no reason to be having to mail in credit card payments.

Most of the more prominent mail forwarding/mail service business are located in no state income tax states like Texas and Florida. So you ought to be able to make those kinds of arrangements without creating any kind of state tax liability issues.

Bottom line, before you leave, arm yourself with a good portfolio of no foreign currency fee U.S. credit cards, and if possible, no foreign currency fee debit cards, including those that reimburse foreign banks ATM fees, since in Thailand those are now going to 180 baht per withdrawal. Then you'll have good flexibility in handling your finances, the U.S. banking/fraud protections will apply even in Thailand because the cards were U.S.-issued, and you'll be in good shape.

Then you'll just have to decide how to best get your U.S. retirement funds into Thailand:

--low-cost ACH transfers every few months via Bangkok Bank's New York branch into a Bangkok Bank account here. A small handling fee by the BKKB New York branch along with a 200-500 baht fee (0.25%) charged by the Thai receiving branch.

--doing no local fee Thai bank counter withdrawals with your no foreign currency fee U.S. debit cards.

--doing no local fee Thai bank counter withdrawals with your no foreign currency fee U.S. credit cards, provided they also have no cash advance fee like the PenFed Promise card.

--or using your no foreign currency fee U.S. debit card to withdraw funds from Thai bank ATMs, get charged 180 baht per withdrawal by the Thai bank, and then hopefully your U.S. bank has a policy to reimburse foreign ATM fees (institutions like Charles Schwab, Fidelity, State Farm Bank, Service Credit Union, and others).

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This is a naive assessment of the risks of fraud. Some years before we moved to Thailand we were here on a visit. During that trip I paid cash for everything except for our stay in a Bangkok hotel which I used my Amex card just that once. When I got back to the US I found that someone had made fraudulent charges amounting to $10,000 on my card. So, I phoned Amex and identified the fraudulent charges all of which were immediately dropped without any discussion. Worked just the way it is supposed to. I still have that Amex account.

When you assume responsibility for fraudulent charges on your credit card you accept a liability right up to your credit limit on each card. A prudent person does not willingly assume such a risk, if it can be avoided. It would be especially shortsighted to forgo such effective protection in exchange for a few discounts.

Yes keep a credit card from where you come from. Always useful to have a spare and in case you go back.

Also bear in mind where your income source is to pay it off.

The consumer protection may not be as strong as US. But if you re sensible and responsible you ll be fine.

I hardly ever use my card from where I come from.

I always use my local credit card. Very convenient. Especially as I also have assets and income in Thailand.

Gets you all sort of promotions and discounts often not available to foreign cards. Thais often have a selection from different banks just for this purpose and to get the best rates everywhere.

The cash backs I get are great. I get about THB 1,500 a month for using in petrol stations restaurants etc. I also get points on a system as good as any I ve had overseas. Last month I cashed them in after a couple of years for THB 36K cash on one card and 7k on another smile.png

Much better also then debit cards.

Never had a problem with my Thai cards. It can be a hassle dealing with an admin problem on your overseas card if you re in Thailand.

Cheers

Fletch smile.png

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Not naive at all. Unlike most people on here who have zero first hand experience of fraud resolution on a Thai credit card I actually understand well the process you go thru and where the risks are. Both from the bank side and a consumer side.

You dont simply "assume responsibilty for fraudulent charges".

The banks have resolution processes. It s just people like yourself dont understand how they work.

Simply put in US the nanny state initially picks up the liability more or less regardless.

In Thailand the same nannying only kicks in once you report your card. However that doesnt mean in practice any fraud before that you simply pick up the bill.

There are processes to go thru and issues looked at case by case. Having assessed these and seen them in practice from both sides I am comfortable with them.

Worth also noting that there are also controls in place before a fraud can hit your card. Eg I get an sms each time I use my credit card. My bank calls with suspicious entries put on hold. I get an sms sometimes also for suspicious entries saying press 1 to accept or 2 to reject and it blocks the card. You can call your bank to query anything you believe is fraudulent and they can put on hold. Etc etc

Cheers

Fletch :)

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited by fletchsmile
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Fletch, your posts often call to mind the soubriquet, "often wrong, never in doubt."

The US "nanny state", by which I assume you mean the federal govt itself is never on the hook for credit card losses. Federal law requires that the card issuer assume all liability above the first $50. Most card issuers voluntarily assume the risk for the first $50 also. The reason for this is not a deep-seated belief on the part of banks that the govt always knows best, but a recognition that actual fraud losses are dwarfed by the revenue arising from additional card usage that cardholders will make once they feel protected from loss.

If you reject such "nannying" preferring to fight it out with the bank on a case-by-case basis under the obscure and perhaps not always consistent policies of the bank in question, I can only tip my hat to your chew-nails-and-spit-rust manliness. For me, I prefer one phone call to the card issuer and forget it, but that's just me.


This is a naive assessment of the risks of fraud. Some years before we moved to Thailand we were here on a visit. During that trip I paid cash for everything except for our stay in a Bangkok hotel which I used my Amex card just that once. When I got back to the US I found that someone had made fraudulent charges amounting to $10,000 on my card. So, I phoned Amex and identified the fraudulent charges all of which were immediately dropped without any discussion. Worked just the way it is supposed to. I still have that Amex account.

When you assume responsibility for fraudulent charges on your credit card you accept a liability right up to your credit limit on each card. A prudent person does not willingly assume such a risk, if it can be avoided. It would be especially shortsighted to forgo such effective protection in exchange for a few discounts.


Yes keep a credit card from where you come from. Always useful to have a spare and in case you go back.

Also bear in mind where your income source is to pay it off.

The consumer protection may not be as strong as US. But if you re sensible and responsible you ll be fine.

I hardly ever use my card from where I come from.

I always use my local credit card. Very convenient. Especially as I also have assets and income in Thailand.

Gets you all sort of promotions and discounts often not available to foreign cards. Thais often have a selection from different banks just for this purpose and to get the best rates everywhere.

The cash backs I get are great. I get about THB 1,500 a month for using in petrol stations restaurants etc. I also get points on a system as good as any I ve had overseas. Last month I cashed them in after a couple of years for THB 36K cash on one card and 7k on another smile.png

Much better also then debit cards.

Never had a problem with my Thai cards. It can be a hassle dealing with an admin problem on your overseas card if you re in Thailand.

Cheers
Fletch smile.png

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Not naive at all. Unlike most people on here who have zero first hand experience of fraud resolution on a Thai credit card I actually understand well the process you go thru and where the risks are. Both from the bank side and a consumer side.

You dont simply "assume responsibilty for fraudulent charges".

The banks have resolution processes. It s just people like yourself dont understand how they work.

Simply put in US the nanny state initially picks up the liability more or less regardless.

In Thailand the same nannying only kicks in once you report your card. However that doesnt mean in practice any fraud before that you simply pick up the bill.

There are processes to go thru and issues looked at case by case. Having assessed these and seen them in practice from both sides I am comfortable with them.

Worth also noting that there are also controls in place before a fraud can hit your card. Eg I get an sms each time I use my credit card. My bank calls with suspicious entries put on hold. I get an sms sometimes also for suspicious entries saying press 1 to accept or 2 to reject and it blocks the card. You can call your bank to query anything you believe is fraudulent and they can put on hold. Etc etc


Cheers
Fletch smile.png

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app
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Fletch, your posts often call to mind the soubriquet, "often wrong, never in doubt."

The US "nanny state", by which I assume you mean the federal govt itself is never on the hook for credit card losses. Federal law requires that the card issuer assume all liability above the first $50. Most card issuers voluntarily assume the risk for the first $50 also. The reason for this is not a deep-seated belief on the part of banks that the govt always knows best, but a recognition that actual fraud losses are dwarfed by the revenue arising from additional card usage that cardholders will make once they feel protected from loss.

If you reject such "nannying" preferring to fight it out with the bank on a case-by-case basis under the obscure and perhaps not always consistent policies of the bank in question, I can only tip my hat to your chew-nails-and-spit-rust manliness. For me, I prefer one phone call to the card issuer and forget it, but that's just me.

This is a naive assessment of the risks of fraud. Some years before we moved to Thailand we were here on a visit. During that trip I paid cash for everything except for our stay in a Bangkok hotel which I used my Amex card just that once. When I got back to the US I found that someone had made fraudulent charges amounting to $10,000 on my card. So, I phoned Amex and identified the fraudulent charges all of which were immediately dropped without any discussion. Worked just the way it is supposed to. I still have that Amex account.

When you assume responsibility for fraudulent charges on your credit card you accept a liability right up to your credit limit on each card. A prudent person does not willingly assume such a risk, if it can be avoided. It would be especially shortsighted to forgo such effective protection in exchange for a few discounts.

Yes keep a credit card from where you come from. Always useful to have a spare and in case you go back.

Also bear in mind where your income source is to pay it off.

The consumer protection may not be as strong as US. But if you re sensible and responsible you ll be fine.

I hardly ever use my card from where I come from.

I always use my local credit card. Very convenient. Especially as I also have assets and income in Thailand.

Gets you all sort of promotions and discounts often not available to foreign cards. Thais often have a selection from different banks just for this purpose and to get the best rates everywhere.

The cash backs I get are great. I get about THB 1,500 a month for using in petrol stations restaurants etc. I also get points on a system as good as any I ve had overseas. Last month I cashed them in after a couple of years for THB 36K cash on one card and 7k on another smile.png

Much better also then debit cards.

Never had a problem with my Thai cards. It can be a hassle dealing with an admin problem on your overseas card if you re in Thailand.

Cheers

Fletch smile.png

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Not naive at all. Unlike most people on here who have zero first hand experience of fraud resolution on a Thai credit card I actually understand well the process you go thru and where the risks are. Both from the bank side and a consumer side.

You dont simply "assume responsibilty for fraudulent charges".

The banks have resolution processes. It s just people like yourself dont understand how they work.

Simply put in US the nanny state initially picks up the liability more or less regardless.

In Thailand the same nannying only kicks in once you report your card. However that doesnt mean in practice any fraud before that you simply pick up the bill.

There are processes to go thru and issues looked at case by case. Having assessed these and seen them in practice from both sides I am comfortable with them.

Worth also noting that there are also controls in place before a fraud can hit your card. Eg I get an sms each time I use my credit card. My bank calls with suspicious entries put on hold. I get an sms sometimes also for suspicious entries saying press 1 to accept or 2 to reject and it blocks the card. You can call your bank to query anything you believe is fraudulent and they can put on hold. Etc etc

Cheers

Fletch smile.png

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Let me stop you at the point you say "by which I assume you mean.."

Your assumption is wrong... :)

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

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This is a naive assessment of the risks of fraud. Some years before we moved to Thailand we were here on a visit. During that trip I paid cash for everything except for our stay in a Bangkok hotel which I used my Amex card just that once. When I got back to the US I found that someone had made fraudulent charges amounting to $10,000 on my card. So, I phoned Amex and identified the fraudulent charges all of which were immediately dropped without any discussion. Worked just the way it is supposed to. I still have that Amex account.

When you assume responsibility for fraudulent charges on your credit card you accept a liability right up to your credit limit on each card. A prudent person does not willingly assume such a risk, if it can be avoided. It would be especially shortsighted to forgo such effective protection in exchange for a few discounts.

Yes keep a credit card from where you come from. Always useful to have a spare and in case you go back.

Also bear in mind where your income source is to pay it off.

The consumer protection may not be as strong as US. But if you re sensible and responsible you ll be fine.

I hardly ever use my card from where I come from.

I always use my local credit card. Very convenient. Especially as I also have assets and income in Thailand.

Gets you all sort of promotions and discounts often not available to foreign cards. Thais often have a selection from different banks just for this purpose and to get the best rates everywhere.

The cash backs I get are great. I get about THB 1,500 a month for using in petrol stations restaurants etc. I also get points on a system as good as any I ve had overseas. Last month I cashed them in after a couple of years for THB 36K cash on one card and 7k on another smile.png

Much better also then debit cards.

Never had a problem with my Thai cards. It can be a hassle dealing with an admin problem on your overseas card if you re in Thailand.

Cheers

Fletch smile.png

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Just to pick up your "naivete" Captain Hadock and your "usual assumptions". The key statement I made was:

"The consumer protection may not be as strong as US. But if you re sensible and responsible you ll be fine."

and then went on to highlight a lot of the positives about using a card and banking here...

Perhaps you'd do me the courtesy of answering the following:

1. Have you ever had any first hand experience of credit card fraud or any banking loss to you personally in Thailand?

2. Do you actually know anyone (not simply read on TV or the internet) who has?

- if so how many?

3. Have you ever worked in a bank in Thailand?

- if so how many?

- for how long?

4. Have you ever worked in a bank at all?

5. Have you ever worked in a risk management function?

6. Do you know anything about operational risk and compliance regulations from being someone who works in this field?

7. Have you read more than 5 pieces of Thai original banking legislation?

- if so how many were in original Thai text?

8. Do you understand anything about capital adequacy, capital metrics, liquidity and say Basel 1/2/3? (more for the other thread on how safe are Thai banks, where you're still living in 1997)

My assumptions are:

A) If you answered honestly you will answer "no" to most of the above and a good chance all.

cool.png like most of the people who go on and on about the Thai banking system you've actually very little first hand experience at all and know very little about what you're talking about - with the exception of what I've read on here over time - but for some reason have a paradigm that can't accept people talking positively and constructively on the subject

C) Like most other posters when asked similar questions you'll choose to either not answer or go off on a tangent

Please don't assume others have your level of (mis-) understanding and (lack of) knowledge/ experience when they just give an opinion and try and be positive and constructive about life here...

Cheers

Fletch smile.png

Edited by fletchsmile
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To the OP, if you should happen to have any interest in Thai bank credit cards (although as a retiree, I can't imagine why you would), go ahead and contact the Thai bank of your choice and ask them what their cardholder liability policy is in the event of fraudlent charges on your card. See what they tell you, if they'll tell you anything at all. That ought to be more than enough help anyone from the U.S. to decide.

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Here's part of my credit card agreement:

...11. I and/or the Supplementary Applicant shall be jointly liable for all charges incurred from the use of the Card issued to me and/or the

Supplementary Applicant by the Bank unless the use of the Card for purchasing purpose is not made by me or the Supplementary Applicant;...
Obviously there are more terms and conditions, but I can also confirm there is also a resolution process. I can confirm that 100% from first hand experience.
Contrasts the quote above for what I signed up for, with Captain Haddock's assumption who thinks you are simply assuming responsibility for fraud:
"When you assume responsibility for fraudulent charges on your credit card you accept a liability right up to your credit limit on each card. A prudent person does not willingly assume such a risk, if it can be avoided. It would be especially shortsighted to forgo such effective protection in exchange for a few discounts."
Cheers
Fletch :)
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You've quoted one part of a credit card application form, with the broader text on that form that you didn't quote clearly referring to an actual terms and conditions document for the card (that you haven't made any reference to at all).

While I can't speak specifically in regard to Standard Chartered cards, the normal Thai bank card liability language usually reads something like these:

post-58284-0-92550700-1395945404_thumb.j

post-58284-0-02507400-1395945406_thumb.j

post-58284-0-11656900-1395945404_thumb.j

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And here's a comparable example from Citibank Thailand's credit card disclosures info:

7. What are the key risks from this product?
If your credit card is lost, you will be responsible for any charges incurred prior to credit card suspension.

http://www.citibank.co.th/en/static/pdf/FactSheet-BC-en.pdf

Basically, all the Thai banks pretty much say the same thing in different ways: In Thailand, the policies typically say the cardholder is on the hook for whatever fraudulent charges may appear on your card until AFTER you have notified the bank of the problem.

And that's a FAR cry different from the credit card liability policies and protections that Americans are accustomed to with U.S. cards.

Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK
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You've quoted one part of a credit card application form, with the broader text on that form that you didn't quote clearly referring to an actual terms and conditions document for the card (that you haven't made any reference to at all).

While I can't speak specifically in regard to Standard Chartered cards, the normal Thai bank card liability language usually reads something like these:

attachicon.gifLiability-SCB Card Policy 1.jpg

attachicon.gifLiability-SCB Card Policy 2.jpg

attachicon.gifLiability-HSBC TH Credit Card.jpg

I think we ve established time and again John you have no first hand experience of this at all.

Feel free to answer the 8 questions above. Most likely you ll do as usual and not answer go off on a tangent and revert to semantics.

You ve actually been told several times by the Bangkok bank guys in the past what happens as well as myself but still don t believe it....

You continue to refuse to accept any interpretation other than your own from the internet.

I d say again you misundersand and mis interpret.

Specifically on what you posted.

No.4 You totally ignored the start of the para and the middle. You must look after your card and pin as part of the T&C. Not give them to others for their use especially your pin etc. As it says "if the cardholder does not follow these terms" then the last sentence you underlined kicks in. The last sentence does not just kick in by itself under any circumstances as you erroneously assume. You have misinterpreted and misunderstood.

How do I know this? I have seen it first hand. You have not.

Your para on the 5 mins relates to how payments to stores etc are posted and how a vendor is notified that payments to that card are no longer accepted. I.e they will tell any vendor after 5 mins has elapsed the payment cant be processed. Before that they are processed as normal. As normal also includes what I wrote above just now.

The last para actually highlights as I said there is a resolution process. Something you continually ignore when claiming there id "no protection".

They call it here an investigation. If you have been complicit in something going wrong say you have given your PIN as above or been part of the fraud etc and breached the T & C you are liable. However, if not and you have complied with the T&C and its a genuine case you re OK.

In summary you ve just made your own interpretations and they are flawed.

You have no first hand experience either to back up your assumptions or misinterpretations.

So every time you get a more accurate interpretation you just revert to quoting and more of your own interpretations and picking up semantics.

As I say if you are responsible and sensible you will be ok. There are then plenty benefits to a Thai CC.

Cheers

Fletch :)

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

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Your para on the 5 mins relates to how payments to stores etc are posted and how a vendor is notified that payments to that card are no longer accepted. I.e they will tell any vendor after 5 mins has elapsed the payment cant be processed. Before that they are processed as normal. As normal also includes what I wrote above just now.

From reading those Terms and Conditions extracts provided by TallGuy in his two earlier post I don't see how you are interpreting the 5 minute notification to mean what you say it means above....but it's still early in the morning and I haven't had my coffee to fully wake up yet. To me the Terms and Conditions are pretty clearly saying you are on the hook for any charges up until 5 minutes after you notify the bank...maybe I'm missing something as I didn't see anything about the 5 minute notification dealing with merchant notification/transaction feedback. And hopefully the bank's resolution process will release a person of any fraudulent charges made before the 5 minute notification assuming the card holder was indeed not at fault. I just wish the bank would publish on their web sites or some one would upload documents that provide more detail on the bank's resolution process and timeline.

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I didn't interpret anything. I just posted excerpts of several banks' own terms and conditions documents relating to cardholder liability.

Anyone who can read and understand plain English can understand what those excerpts mean.

As I said before, if anyone has any question, just call customer service at a Thai bank, and ask them their policy on cardholder liability -- what happens if my card is stolen and the thief rings up charges before I know of the theft and report it to the bank??? You may need to ask to speak to a supervisor in order to get any/a straight answer. But in the end, you will get their answer.

Unfortunately, the various Thai banks are quite happy to advertise and promote their various credit cards. But few of them actually post online on their websites the actual T&C documents for their cards. And for those that do, you have to search for a needle in the banking haystack in order to find them.

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Your para on the 5 mins relates to how payments to stores etc are posted and how a vendor is notified that payments to that card are no longer accepted. I.e they will tell any vendor after 5 mins has elapsed the payment cant be processed. Before that they are processed as normal. As normal also includes what I wrote above just now.

From reading those Terms and Conditions extracts provided by TallGuy in his two earlier post I don't see how you are interpreting the 5 minute notification to mean what you say it means above....but it's still early in the morning and I haven't had my coffee to fully wake up yet. To me the Terms and Conditions are pretty clearly saying you are on the hook for any charges up until 5 minutes after you notify the bank...maybe I'm missing something as I didn't see anything about the 5 minute notification dealing with merchant notification/transaction feedback. And hopefully the bank's resolution process will release a person of any fraudulent charges made before the 5 minute notification assuming the card holder was indeed not at fault. I just wish the bank would publish on their web sites or some one would upload documents that provide more detail on the bank's resolution process and timeline.

Have a re-read of para 5 when you ve finished your coffee :)

In particular it is talking about the "use of the card DURING 5 MINUTES from the time the bank has been notified." I.e talking about a 5 min window. Not "any charges up until..."

The sentence before is talking about how it notifies the "group who accept credit card payment" (i.e "stores") or as we might say merchants or vendors a crad is no longer valid.

Basically they notify the stores the card is not valid but this takes a little time.

It is possible that in this 5 min window between you telling the bank and the bank telling the stores a payment will come up. They are clarifying how it will be dealt with during this 5 mins. It doesn t take precedence over all the other clauses.

Yes the disclosures could be better.

As you see tho the more that they post on websites the more they risk people mis understanding and mis interpreting.

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

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