How to search for cheap rentals (mostly for houses)

[wym]

I've been asked to post my real-world-proven method for finding a good deal on rental accommodation.

Since there's been a recent thread on "pro's and con's of renting a house as opposed to a flat", let's keep that sort of discussion over there and try to restrict this one to effective methods.

Obviously the below is all my own opinion, so rather than just disputing, how about simply contributing positive examples of methods you have found useful.

-----------------

If you want good value never ever search via any advertising medium, particularly those targeting foreigners.

Just select your neighborhood(s) and walk around, asking people - especially the street vendors, moto dops and hair salons in the area, plus anyone else that looks like they get out and about and know what's going on - also just walk around the back sois and look out for posted signs. Obviously this requires Thai, so take along a trusted helper if you don't have that bit.

If I'm really determined on a particular area - like walking distance to my new full-time job - I make up a stack of little flyers 1/8 cut up A4 photocopies, Thai on one side English on the other, with an outline of my price range, location specs and type of place I'm looking for and of course my (or my helper's) phone number, offering B1,000 to whoever puts me in touch with the landlord of the place I end up choosing.

I then walk around again in the same areas, renewing my acquaintances with the above categories of locals, recruiting "scouts" for me, giving out handfuls of the flyers asking them to pass them on to others. Word tends to spread, and within a week or two, you've usually got a few dozen places to look at.

Personally if you're there long-term and looking for the best value, I advise taking the place with no curtains or A/C. If the A/C units are old, the extra electric bill will quickly overtake the price of buying a newer efficient one, and the places that are "truly unfurnished" like that should be significantly cheaper, and much better chance of getting your deposit back.

I also get a "rolling" three-year lease, so each year we execute another one, gives me more leverage if/when she wants to put up the rate, or I need her to fix something up - usually this sort of place you are expected to responsibility for the paint, electric and minor plumbing issues, but I make sure to add to the contract that the landlord has to fix problems with major things like water leakage or fundamental electric problems at the supply box. If you have expensive electronics, you might want to get properly grounded circuit put in, this usually doesn't exist beforehand.

My current result of this process - B12K per month for a five-story row house fifteen minutes walk from Sathorn BTS, two minutes from the express ferry dock. But the neighbors all say I'm paying too much 8-)

[johnbits]

When I was checking for cheap rentals in the area Sathorn I did the exact same sort of thing, walking around and asking.

The price range we came up with was 10K - 15K, but they weren't as large at the 5 story row house. They did already have AC and were furnished.

Good idea handing out flyers, but how do you resolve ties? Likely more than one of your "scouts" will direct you to the same rental.

[eldragon]

Thanks for posting this.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wym]

When I was checking for cheap rentals in the area Sathorn I did the exact same sort of thing, walking around and asking.

The price range we came up with was 10K - 15K, but they weren't as large at the 5 story row house. They did already have AC and were furnished.

Good idea handing out flyers, but how do you resolve ties? Likely more than one of your "scouts" will direct you to the same rental.

Yes, A/C and furnishings of course will boost the rents - and also give you a lot of liability if you're intending to stay long-term, have pets or kids, etc. I prefer the flexibility and lower rent of a bare place, cost a bit upfront to make it livable but works out cheaper in the long run - plus you can take a lot of it with you when you move on.

Never had a problem with "ties" but I would simply do it first-come-first-served.

<snip>

Thanks for posting this.

My pleasure. . .

Edited April 3, 2014 by Maestro
Deleted part of post which was reply to removed post,

[SeaVisionBurma]

Moving to Real Estate Forum, will leave a link here in General also.

[HooHaa]

my house on soi 11 has been 15k per month for the last 13 years. a motorcycle guy i asked drove me to it and ive lived there ever since.

the biggest issue i had with furnishing was convincing the landlords i didnt want any.

Edited April 3, 2014 by HooHaa

[eldragon]

Good idea handing out flyers, but how do you resolve ties? Likely more than one of your "scouts" will direct you to the same rental.

Flyers are a great idea, but I could absolutely see some problems. Even in my own country, I can imagine someone arguing about the terms of the reward, going on about how they referred me to a good place and it's not their fault I chose not to rent it.

[HooHaa]

but why would that matter? if you didn't rent it you didn't rent it ergo no reward. its not like you are offering 1000 thb per lead. besides, its hardly legally binding, its a flyer.

while i wouldn't use that approach, the only caveat i would make on the flyer issue is use an email add and phone number dedicated solely to the purpose of finding a house.

motorcycle taxis, salons, mom and pop stores,street vendors. you will get the word out plenty quick.

Edited April 4, 2014 by HooHaa

[wym]

Yes, especially in a poorer neighborhood.

In a wealthier one these days might need to offer more if you dont' get many responses within a week, maybe B2000 obviously well worth it.

Flyers are a great idea, but I could absolutely see some problems. Even in my own country, I can imagine someone arguing about the terms of the reward, going on about how they referred me to a good place and it's not their fault I chose not to rent it.

Nope, just clearly state to be paid if you choose the place they put you on to.

Believe me they set it up so they take you in person to meet the landlord, quite possibly getting something off them as well.

Sure lots of landlords ask for a crazy number seeing a farang's involved, but it's a numbers game, if you've got twenty to look at you start at the lower end.

Didn't have any problem using my usual number, maybe a dozen calls in the couple weeks after asking if I'd found a place yet.

And of course I was famous in the neighborhood, but in a very pleasant way, no problems finding a maid, handyman when I need one, even potential GFs used to be introduced until they all found out I've got that end sorted. . .

[eldragon]

but why would that matter? if you didn't rent it you didn't rent it ergo no reward. its not like you are offering 1000 thb per lead. besides, its hardly legally binding, its a flyer.

while i wouldn't use that approach, the only caveat i would make on the flyer issue is use an email add and phone number dedicated solely to the purpose of finding a house.

motorcycle taxis, salons, mom and pop stores,street vendors. you will get the word out plenty quick.

Bc I don't want any enemies- or people that feel like I owe them something- in TH. Especially ones that might know where I live.

I think motorcycle taxis are the way to go. They seem like the eyes and ears of the neighborhood.

Edited April 4, 2014 by eldragon

[Senechal]

And the quality of the house? I doubt it has a western kitchen. How much did you need to invest in it to bring it up to modern standards? And once you've beautified Mr Somchai's townhouse, how long before he takes a fancy to it?

[wym]

Believe it or not, properly drafted and executed leases are pretty enforceable, and in fifteen years I haven't ever had a problem like you imply.

You did notice my tactic to ensure I always have three years to plan ahead? BTW that is the maximum after which the landlord has to register the lease with the lands department.

I prefer a house with no kitchen at all, because the cheaper Thai-style houses usually don't place it where I would like.

I found some great modular counter pieces at HomePro, stainless topped with a back splashboard, just needed a plumber to run the pipes otherwise self-installed and can take them with me when I go. Personally I'm not to fussy about the kitchen since the maid and the girls do 99% of the cooking; in fact the kids are learning how to do western breakfasts + joak at the moment, don't want to get them to used to having servants do everything for when it's time to return to the states, want them pretty self-sufficient at taking care of the whole house, laundry etc by 10 or 11.

And listen, I'm not saying this is a monolithic all-or-nothing recipe here, if you want to just use the hunting bit to find that gorgeously decorated place with a walled garden or something else that costs more than I spend on my whole life every month, feel free.

All advice I give on such topics is targeted at getting maximum value for money, since I'm poor. YMMV.

Edited April 5, 2014 by wym

[wym]

Bc I don't want any enemies- or people that feel like I owe them something- in TH. Especially ones that might know where I live.

I think motorcycle taxis are the way to go. They seem like the eyes and ears of the neighborhood.

I've never had any problem in Bangkok, maybe more dangerous places like Pattaya or Patong, but really I don't see this sort of thing, pretty prosaic and not much at stake, being a concern.

And IMO the motocy gang's the most likely to be assertive, pretty much everyone else puts on a big show of respect, where they're pretty cheeky - but then they know my business more than most 8-)

Other consideration is that at least in my neighborhood, they earn pretty much top dollar even over shopowners, so they're not that motivated to go out of their way, in fact I don't think I've ever gotten decent leads from that source. Generally ends up being a random friend-of-a-friend of someone who got my flyer at the haircutters or a restaurant or something.

[wym]

Just remembered a couple of other lease add-ons that may be also important for others.

Permission to conduct a business - they're usually OK with that.

Permission to sublet, say if you want to leave the country for a while, or rent out rooms if you need extra money.

That is a bit harder to get, but if you make it clear it's a deal-breaker they'll usually cave, as long as you make it clear you retain full responsibility for your sub-tenants, doing damage etc.

And that's an easier sell when it's a bare shell which you're going to be fixing up anyway.

Here's a guy did something similar but a flat and a bit more upscale:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/greathomesanddestinations/14iht-rebangkok14.html?_r=0

[eldragon]

I had a bit of luck employing these methods over the weekend. But most of my Thai friends agree I'd be asking for trouble if I were to live alone (no gf, wife, gik, etc.) in a house, townhouse, or shophouse in central BKK. I floated the safety issue on a different thread a few weeks ago. Just want to revisit it and see what you all think.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Senechal]

Totally depends on the neighborhood. But if you're looking for a very inexpensive house, then clearly you're going to find more of what you're looking for in the poorer neighborhoods.

But there are more day-to-day issues which you should be aware of: Living in a house or townhouse in BKK is probably not for the newcomer. I would do it only if you speak Thai relatively well. When you live alone you will have frequent need of transacting with workers, delivery people, repair people, neighbors, etc. You'll also need to read bills, mail, etc.

For most foreigners, living in a house (alone) in BKK is a bit of a pain in the ass. Condos are 1000x more convenient (and safe of course). Your gf is probably right.

[eldragon]

Just remembered a couple of other lease add-ons that may be also important for others.

Permission to conduct a business - they're usually OK with that.

Permission to sublet, say if you want to leave the country for a while, or rent out rooms if you need extra money.

That is a bit harder to get, but if you make it clear it's a deal-breaker they'll usually cave, as long as you make it clear you retain full responsibility for your sub-tenants, doing damage etc.

And that's an easier sell when it's a bare shell which you're going to be fixing up anyway.

Here's a guy did something similar but a flat and a bit more upscale:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/greathomesanddestinations/14iht-rebangkok14.html?_r=0

I encountered something today that I'd heard of in the past, but never had it explained to me properly.

One of the houses I looked at has a business- a legit massage shop- inside. The owner can't run it anymore and is trying to dump the lease. To take over the lease and get the house, I'd have to pay some strange deposit in the neighborhood of 200K THB to the current renter, plus 10K per month for rent. The way my Thai friend explained it is it would effectively make me the owner of the house- provided I continued to pay rent- and allow me to do anything I want to the inside or outside of the house. It is also a fee that I could collect from the next renter when/if I leave. And it could go up (or down, I suppose) in value, depending on the market.

This probably sounds like some way to rip off a foreigner- and potentially is- but I have heard of it before. About a year ago, a very trusted Thai friend was trying to move into a larger commercial space and had to get about 200K together. Another friend was telling me about a bar in her neighborhood that was up for rent: 300K plus 7K per month.

Is anyone familiar with this?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited April 19, 2014 by eldragon

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^,

yes, its called tea money, to you and me its a tax dodge, walk away fast.

[eldragon]

^^^^^,

yes, its called tea money, to you and me its a tax dodge, walk away fast.

Can you elaborate?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[eldragon]

Just remembered a couple of other lease add-ons that may be also important for others.

Permission to conduct a business - they're usually OK with that.

Permission to sublet, say if you want to leave the country for a while, or rent out rooms if you need extra money.

That is a bit harder to get, but if you make it clear it's a deal-breaker they'll usually cave, as long as you make it clear you retain full responsibility for your sub-tenants, doing damage etc.

And that's an easier sell when it's a bare shell which you're going to be fixing up anyway.

Here's a guy did something similar but a flat and a bit more upscale:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/greathomesanddestinations/14iht-rebangkok14.html?_r=0

I encountered something today that I'd heard of in the past, but never had it explained to me properly.

One of the houses I looked at has a business- a legit massage shop- inside. The owner can't run it anymore and is trying to dump the lease. To take over the lease and get the house, I'd have to pay some strange deposit in the neighborhood of 200K THB to the current renter, plus 10K per month for rent. The way my Thai friend explained it is it would effectively make me the owner of the house- provided I continued to pay rent- and allow me to do anything I want to the inside or outside of the house. It is also a fee that I could collect from the next renter when/if I leave. And it could go up (or down, I suppose) in value, depending on the market.

This probably sounds like some way to rip off a foreigner- and potentially is- but I have heard of it before. About a year ago, a very trusted Thai friend was trying to move into a larger commercial space and had to get about 200K together. Another friend was telling me about a bar in her neighborhood that was up for rent: 300K plus 7K per month.

Is anyone familiar with this?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Got a little more info on this from another forum, in case anyone is interested:

"Key money is common and it has been around for decades. It is not common in the US or other countries; but this is Thailand. It is the right of the Landlord to ask for whatever they want - and can get away with. In a "tight" market or a premier property, key money is a method for a Landlord to "bid the property" among interested renters and/or buyers. And understand that rental income is taxed in Thailand; key money is NOT. Shophouses are increasing popular alternatives to traditional retail suites and offices. Especially when they offer convenient parking and minimal costs of upgrade (which is often the case). You should NOT expect this money back - it is a cost of doing business if the location is a "must have" for you."

In short, if the property is considered a good one for business, then it's pretty normal to ask for a keynote/goodwill payment. The part I just can't wrap my head around is they're trying to unload the lease/property, so why are they asking people for a keynote/goodwill payment? I guess they figure it's in demand, and interested parties will bid up/down on the payment.

Edited April 21, 2014 by eldragon