Toyota MR-S vs Mazda RX-8

[Aldebaran1981]

Dear all,

I understand that both these 2 cars are imported directly into Thailand.

Does this mean that servicing, and repairs, if any, is gonna be a pain in the A$$?

I am really digging the new look MR-S and prices are quite attractive.

However, the rotary RX-8 has my heart beating as well.

Does anyone know which car is easier to maintain in 3 years and also has a better residual value?

Or does any bro have a better recommendation?

Thanks!

[WarpSpeed]

! I just lost a comprehensive post.

Here goes again.

I like Rx8's but if you are not or don;t have a top mechanic or want to avoid a high maintenance car the 8 is not the choice here I'm reluctant to say. They are thoroughbred and finicky cars. I am looking to export some there as per an add I posted but they require a lot of maintenance and need to be "driven" which most are not, especially the automatics in order to clean out the engines well. The early models up to about 08 had multiple issues until the next gen came out. Our business model is to update those weaknesses and reintroduce the updated car, we do not intend to resell without that being done and have nothing to hide so will inform every customer of the upgrades and why they were needed.

The issues snowball into engine failures at very low mileages so there is a glut of nice bodied cars here that require expensive repairs in the case of an owner that relies on a mechanic, so they end up salvaged. We're acquiring some and refurbishing them mechanically for resale this also branches out into part supply, new and used and specialty performance products as well. We will specialize, I have 2 myself now, one is being converted into a race car and the other will soon be my daily driver. Check out this site and do some research before you make your decision we will be offering parts shipped world wide as well and that's a good source to have..

http://www.rx8club.com/

If you're not buying from us then be on your toes..

Edited April 6, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Aldebaran1981]

! I just lost a comprehensive post.

Here goes again.

I like Rx8's but if you are not or don;t have a top mechanic or want to avoid a high maintenance car the 8 is not the choice here I'm reluctant to say. They are thoroughbred and finicky cars. I am looking to export some there as per an add I posted but they require a lot of maintenance and need to be "driven" which most are not, especially the automatics in order to clean out the engines well. The early models up to about 08 had multiple issues until the next gen came out. Our business model is to update those weaknesses and reintroduce the updated car, we do not intend to resell without that being done and have nothing to hide so will inform every customer of the upgrades and why they were needed.

The issues snowball into engine failures at very low mileages so there is a glut of nice bodied cars here that require expensive repairs in the case of an owner that relies on a mechanic, so they end up salvaged. We're acquiring some and refurbishing them mechanically for resale this also branches out into part supply, new and used and specialty performance products as well. We will specialize, I have 2 myself now, one is being converted into a race car and the other will soon be my daily driver. Check out this site and do some research before you make your decision we will be offering parts shipped world wide as well and that's a good source to have..

http://www.rx8club.com/

If you're not buying from us then be on your toes..

Looks like the mr-s is a safer buy? Coz it's a Toyota and definitely gonna be easier to run in bkk?

[WarpSpeed]

Sadly, in this case, probably, You'd have to be really passionate about wanting an 8.

[Aldebaran1981]

I do love the rx8's looks and performance. But only worried about the maintenance and the availability of parts

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[IMHO]

Both of these cars are discontinued, and only ever sold in very, very small quantities through official channels (i.e. annual sales less than 10 units each). Most you'll find are actually going to be gray market imports, so be sure to check the tabian rot is above board (i.e. no under-reported engine size/HP, not registered as 'locally re-assembled' etc).

Also, expect lengthy wait times and big prices if they need parts - unlikely any will be in-stock items.

[jay1980]

Or does any bro have a better recommendation?

later model mx5?

350z?

Edited April 8, 2014 by jay1980

[Aldebaran1981]

Mx5 is a good and fast car. I hate it coz it only seats 2! Hehe

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[WarpSpeed]

I do love the rx8's looks and performance. But only worried about the maintenance and the availability of parts

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I will mention this on the up side. One of the things we're banking on is the 8's eventual collect-ability. It may very well be the last iteration of the rotary and no matter what, likely the only 4 door 4-seater they make of the Rx model, any discussion on another future model release has centered around a 2-seater again if anything?

BTW parts not necessarily an issue, I could get you most anything nearly as fast you want it depending on which shipping you elect to pay for? If it is not an immediate issue then a week or 2 at the most..

Edited April 9, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Aldebaran1981]

Omg warp speed u are tempting me so much.. I have narrowed down my selection to a few makes, namely

The clk200(w208), clk240(w209), rx8 or even Honda prelude.

Only thing is the rx8 here are all imports and only god knows how the last owners trashed the car. Have driven one before for a short term and am very amazed by the performance of the rotary.

I dun suppose I will drive the car often though. Perhaps at night or the occasional trip up north to isaan

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[WarpSpeed]

Well there the price will only climb, just as I believe it will here also but not quite as much, I feel they are already bottoming out here based on what I see in pricing diversity. Most oldr models in average condition are around $6000 to $8000, I would not buy any pre 2008 with more than 80,000 miles unless they have had a new engine installed under warrantee. In another couple of years here with proper marketing they'll be steadily climbing in value once again..

Priced one yesterday like my 8 in my garage only not as nice a package and it had 102,000 on it (miles that is) and he was asking $7500, no way, but bodes well for our plans.. We're I n your situation if you can afford one there in the first place juts factor in a few upgrades right off the bat, then you have a nice package, you know about it up front so no real surprises.

Edited April 9, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Aldebaran1981]

$7500? Usd u mean? Are u located in bkk? Can I drop by yr garage to check out the rx8 U have right now?

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[MMarlow]

$7500? Usd u mean? Are u located in bkk? Can I drop by yr garage to check out the rx8 U have right now?

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In your dreams!

[DLock]

I went through a similar process a while back.

Started looking at MX5...way too small and didn't feel safe. Great car...just too small for me...and there is a "hairdresser" stigma with buddies.

Z4 and SLK also just felt a little small, especially if a rear end accident.

Looked at RX8, but really wanted a convertible, so that was out, but I liked the price.

Considered a 350Z and Audi TT convertible. Ok cars, but condition of what I saw was average. Settled on a Mercedes CLK W209 convertible.

Just felt better to drive, solid, sure footed and reasonable price. Although the rear seats are small, gave me options for people or luggage the others didn't.

I changed my mind almost daily...sometimes multiple times a day...but you gotta go see the cars to make up your mind and rule cars in or out one at a time.

Good luck. You'll know it when you see it.

[Aldebaran1981]

I was kinda hoping! Hahaha

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[WarpSpeed]

$7500? Usd u mean? Are u located in bkk? Can I drop by yr garage to check out the rx8 U have right now?

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Nooooooooo, the states...

[jay1980]

Mx5 is a good and fast car. I hate it coz it only seats 2! Hehe

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MR-S only 2 seats also, and does not even have a boot, MX5 at least has a boot

also what about honda S2000 ?

[Spoonman]

The RX8 is an awesome chassis and really likes (so will you) an LS7 conversion.

[WarpSpeed]

I had that thought too but it just seems like blasphemy the rotary is just so much fun to drive, buttery smooth power delivery that just keeps giving and then there are other surrounding issues potentially but since they're already needing plenty of TLC to avoid issues with the rotary (an unusual case to be certain given their past durability and performance, history of longevity) it may not be a bad idea in this case, a compromise to be certain but maybe one that will fill his needs and satisfy his fun factor.. There is definitely plenty of room under the hood if done right.

He'd be paying for an entire package when purchasing and it seems silly to throw much of it away and spend more money for the conversion, on the other hand buying one and running it down eventually without out putting out the money now and then doing the conversion is another option to consider. It is gamble as to whether or not it will even break, it isn't guaranteed it will and with some research much of the problems can be avoided with proper preemptive upgrades which would help to avoid a lot of the pitfalls that end up ruining the engine. most of the cars I saw listed on Taladrod had autos for example and they have the most failures, the engine is different, it only has a single exhaust port per rotor versus the double exhaust port on the 6 speed manual and the early models only had a 4 speed tranny versus a 6 speed 2008 and up. They didn't expel enough exhaust and then over time being an auto usually wasn't driven hard enough to clear them out and deposits build up destroying the seals or causing too much back-pressure which then destroys the seals, this is largely due to the change in port location, Mazda had to use side porting to clean up the air enough to meet standards.

The autoboxes are short on power too over the manuals a little over 25 Hp..

Edited April 10, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[ignis]

Not fond of Toyota but the Celica looks OK

Very few about here

Many more here

[Aldebaran1981]

The celiac in Thailand I believe are all imports from either Malaysia or singapore

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[ignis]

The celiac in Thailand I believe are all imports from either Malaysia or singapore

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same as all the others car mentioned in this topic.

Is there a Thai built Sports car ?

[WarpSpeed]

The celiac in Thailand I believe are all imports from either Malaysia or singapore

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same as all the others car mentioned in this topic.

Is there a Thai built Sports car ?

Here ya go...

Edited April 11, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Aldebaran1981]

Nice one! 555

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[WarpSpeed]

Just noticed it has a news copy write, don't know if it'll stay up or not? hope so, couldn't find another one like it. Not exactly a sports car depiction either..All I could do..

Edited April 11, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Mark1972]

l have no experience of the Toyota, but l have owned 3 RX8's in the UK. When l first considered buying my first car l did some research on the net and was horrified to discover all the negative press about the RX8's. Some of it is warranted, but most is just scaremongering by people who are too lazy to educate themselves about rotary engines, and when problems do arise they write on forums.

Firstly, l would not consider buying a RX8 without a compression test. Do not go to any garage to get this done, the normal compression test for your average car will give mis-leading results; it must be a rotary test done with specialist equipment. l am not sure if there are any rotary specialist in Thailand, but they are very resourceful people so would imagine somewhere there might be. The cost of this test in the UK is £50 at rotary specialist, approximately £200-300 at Mazda main dealer. When you consider the cost of the test, it sure beats an engine rebuild at around 2k.

As correctly pointed out in a previous post, the seals of these engines go which results in a loss of compression and ultimately engine failure. Actually failure is maybe not the correct word; once compression is lost you normally end-up with hot or cold starting problems because the engine lacks the compression to turn over. Often damaged seals are result of neglect from the owner. You must keep the engine oil topped-up; rotary engines require greater volumes of oil than a normal engine. Do not use fully synthetic oil, this can damage your engine. When you shut the engine down it is important to rev it to approximately 3000rpm and turn the ignition off while you still have your foot on the accelerator, this way you coat the rotors with oil. Look on forums and people laugh at the turning off procedure, but l do not listen to conjecture, my information comes from an engineer at a specialist rotary engine firm that only deal with RX8's.

Also these cars can flood which causes problems sometimes, so when you start the car, fully depress the clutch, turn on the ignition, wait a few moments then turn the key without touching the accelerator, this really works.

Last bit of advice l can give, again this comes from rotary engine specialist: use high octane fuel, so much better for your engine, will improve the dire mpg figures !!

l have raced karts in Thailand and UK at a decent level, so l know a good driving experience - the RX8 is a great car, very responsive chassis that gives you a good feel for the road, whilst still maintaining a level of practicality with the 4 seats. The engines need to be worked, especially the 192, but are very rewarding cars to drive. Mazda recommend taking the car to 6000rpm each time you drive the car, which for me is great !!!!

The early models 2004 -2006 were prone to problems, but l would still buy one with a compression test done. One thing to look out for on all the models, is the alloys rusting from the inside, they all do it.

l am in the UK currently and l am about to go buy my fourth RX8, 20mpg when it costs £6.50 a gallon and £500 to tax is steep, but there is no other car l would rather drive.

lf any of you do decide to buy an RX8 l go back and forth to the UK monthly, so would be happy to bring any spare parts that would fit in hand luggage.

Hope my post helps you make-up your mind, just don't listen to the crap you can read about these cars on forums, especially sites in the USA where there seems to much mis-information. Mark.

[WarpSpeed]

Well I'm well versed in them as posted previously we are acquiring them and refurbishing them and blown motors are unlike any other car I've seen EVER, in such short amount of street time..Are you even aware of the extended engine warrantee Mazda quietly put on the early models? The early models are junk and most rotaries are very durable but not these. A compression test is only a mere check at that moment and helps naught for determining anything close to long term or even short term for that matter. In a week or so they could just suddenly blow out a seal, especially if you have no idea the catalytic converter has packed up or screw a coil set and the engine is toast, especially if it is already high mileage. Rx7's never flooded the way the 8's do either,. You're correct about one thing, failure is not the right word without "catastrophic" in front of it..

There must be some rotary specialists in Thailand because Petee has been racing an outdated 7 for several years now in the Super Car class.. Many of the engines that fail are not rebuildable, they're scrap metal after the seals blow because the housings get deeply gouged.

These engines fail in many cases with the BEST engine care one can give, it's a random thing like winning the lottery or in this case losing. Still there's no telling when, or if, but it is a well known engine flaw in design and manufacture that Mazda is well aware of and why they changed the engine design in 08..It's naught to do with maintenance by the owner, more to the point it's a host of smaller issues leading up to one big snowball and into an engine failure.. For example do you even know about the fuel pressure loss due to the early saddle bag fuel pump problems when the tank gets low? It causes the engine to sputter with loss of fuel pickup and loose pressure making the mixture lean and that is a death knell for those engines, it need only happen a couple of times..

Revving the engine @ shut down is complete <deleted>..It serves no purpose what-so-ever, in spite of what your "Mazda engineer" says.. It's also best to add premix to the fuel and not worry about keeping it topped up but do keep an eye on the oil for sure..

Yeah don't listen to any site in the US where we successfully raced RX8's since they're arrival as a factory program and won multiple championships with them up until they discontinued them, hell we don't know a thing about the, perfect reason NOT to listen to much of his advice to make such a rubbish closing comment... Only arrogant and smug British sites know the answers but check that site anyway and see how many members on there ARE British, getting their top advice from it..And sharing too.

It just occurred to me, he probably got booted for his rubbish advice so now he has an axe to grind against them..

Edited April 13, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[Mark1972]

Well I'm well versed in them as posted previously we are acquiring them and refurbishing them and blown motors are unlike any other car I've seen EVER, in such short amount of street time..Are you even aware of the extended engine warrantee Mazda quietly put on the early models? The early models are junk and most rotaries are very durable but not these. A compression test is only a mere check at that moment and helps naught for determining anything close to long term or even short term for that matter. In a week or so they could just suddenly blow out a seal, especially if you have no idea the catalytic converter has packed up or screw a coil set and the engine is toast, especially if it is already high mileage. Rx7's never flooded the way the 8's do either,. You're correct about one thing, failure is not the right word without "catastrophic" in front of it..

There must be some rotary specialists in Thailand because Petee has been racing an outdated 7 for several years now in the Super Car class.. Many of the engines that fail are not rebuildable, they're scrap metal after the seals blow because the housings get deeply gouged.

These engines fail in many cases with the BEST engine care one can give, it's a random thing like winning the lottery or in this case losing. Still there's no telling when, or if, but it is a well known engine flaw in design and manufacture that Mazda is well aware of and why they changed the engine design in 08..It's naught to do with maintenance by the owner, more to the point it's a host of smaller issues leading up to one big snowball and into an engine failure.. For example do you even know about the fuel pressure loss due to the early saddle bag fuel pump problems when the tank gets low? It causes the engine to sputter with loss of fuel pickup and loose pressure making the mixture lean and that is a death knell for those engines, it need only happen a couple of times..

Revving the engine @ shut down is complete <deleted>..It serves no purpose what-so-ever, in spite of what your "Mazda engineer" says.. It's also best to add premix to the fuel and not worry about keeping it topped up but do keep an eye on the oil for sure..

Yeah don't listen to any site in the US where we successfully raced RX8's since they're arrival as a factory program and won multiple championships with them up until they discontinued them, hell we don't know a thing about the, perfect reason NOT to listen to much of his advice to make such a rubbish closing comment... Only arrogant and smug British sites know the answers but check that site anyway and see how many members on there ARE British, getting their top advice from it..And sharing too.

It just occurred to me, he probably got booted for his rubbish advice so now he has an axe to grind against them..

l was trying to post some helpful advice advice, but instead you have to get into a slagging match, no need really. If these cars are so bad why are you acquiring them, why race them ? A race engine is completely different to a road engine with pretty much everything strengthened so not comparable really. Read the post, it was not a Mazda engineer who told me about turning off procedure, it was a rotary engineer who deals with these cars only. Because of people like you giving bad information like this, the cars get badly treated and can fail. This is not a normal car and cannot be treated thus. l agree there were problems with the early models as there are with the later models, l know someone who has a 2009 with 10,000 miles on the clock that failed last week. l am in the RX8's owners club in the UK so have contact with quite a few people.

If you are such an expert you would know that coating the rotor with oil when you shut it down works. l agree the RX7 was a much better engine, l have known them do 200,000 - 300,000 miles.

My post was meant to be helpful for any potential buyer. Yes there are problems with this car, especially when people like you give it advice on how to run them; you need to take care with them and even when you do they can fail, as can any car, but l agree they have a higher failure rate. The point of my post even if l am a little bias, is what a rewarding car this is to drive and you MR expert can't take that away. l am never disrespectful to anyone, but they are forums in the US with not to helpful information.

On a personal note, l did not get kicked out of anywhere this is a forum for adults, but as usual big mouth Yank spouting his mouth off. Just what l used to see in the army, we do an exchange with the 82 Airborne and many of them suffered from feelings off grandeur. Wind your neck in pal, this forum to help people and do not think about slagging me off unless your prepared to meet me and back it you loud mouth &lt;deleted&gt;

Edited April 13, 2014 by Mark1972

[WarpSpeed]

Well I'm well versed in them as posted previously we are acquiring them and refurbishing them and blown motors are unlike any other car I've seen EVER, in such short amount of street time..Are you even aware of the extended engine warrantee Mazda quietly put on the early models? The early models are junk and most rotaries are very durable but not these. A compression test is only a mere check at that moment and helps naught for determining anything close to long term or even short term for that matter. In a week or so they could just suddenly blow out a seal, especially if you have no idea the catalytic converter has packed up or screw a coil set and the engine is toast, especially if it is already high mileage. Rx7's never flooded the way the 8's do either,. You're correct about one thing, failure is not the right word without "catastrophic" in front of it..

There must be some rotary specialists in Thailand because Petee has been racing an outdated 7 for several years now in the Super Car class.. Many of the engines that fail are not rebuildable, they're scrap metal after the seals blow because the housings get deeply gouged.

These engines fail in many cases with the BEST engine care one can give, it's a random thing like winning the lottery or in this case losing. Still there's no telling when, or if, but it is a well known engine flaw in design and manufacture that Mazda is well aware of and why they changed the engine design in 08..It's naught to do with maintenance by the owner, more to the point it's a host of smaller issues leading up to one big snowball and into an engine failure.. For example do you even know about the fuel pressure loss due to the early saddle bag fuel pump problems when the tank gets low? It causes the engine to sputter with loss of fuel pickup and loose pressure making the mixture lean and that is a death knell for those engines, it need only happen a couple of times..

Revving the engine @ shut down is complete <deleted>..It serves no purpose what-so-ever, in spite of what your "Mazda engineer" says.. It's also best to add premix to the fuel and not worry about keeping it topped up but do keep an eye on the oil for sure..

Yeah don't listen to any site in the US where we successfully raced RX8's since they're arrival as a factory program and won multiple championships with them up until they discontinued them, hell we don't know a thing about the, perfect reason NOT to listen to much of his advice to make such a rubbish closing comment... Only arrogant and smug British sites know the answers but check that site anyway and see how many members on there ARE British, getting their top advice from it..And sharing too.

It just occurred to me, he probably got booted for his rubbish advice so now he has an axe to grind against them..

Speechless eh? Wise choice, better to post nothing and look the fool then to post something foolish and leave no doubt..

[Spoonman]

Well I'm well versed in them as posted previously we are acquiring them and refurbishing them and blown motors are unlike any other car I've seen EVER, in such short amount of street time..Are you even aware of the extended engine warrantee Mazda quietly put on the early models? The early models are junk and most rotaries are very durable but not these. A compression test is only a mere check at that moment and helps naught for determining anything close to long term or even short term for that matter. In a week or so they could just suddenly blow out a seal, especially if you have no idea the catalytic converter has packed up or screw a coil set and the engine is toast, especially if it is already high mileage. Rx7's never flooded the way the 8's do either,. You're correct about one thing, failure is not the right word without "catastrophic" in front of it..

There must be some rotary specialists in Thailand because Petee has been racing an outdated 7 for several years now in the Super Car class.. Many of the engines that fail are not rebuildable, they're scrap metal after the seals blow because the housings get deeply gouged.

These engines fail in many cases with the BEST engine care one can give, it's a random thing like winning the lottery or in this case losing. Still there's no telling when, or if, but it is a well known engine flaw in design and manufacture that Mazda is well aware of and why they changed the engine design in 08..It's naught to do with maintenance by the owner, more to the point it's a host of smaller issues leading up to one big snowball and into an engine failure.. For example do you even know about the fuel pressure loss due to the early saddle bag fuel pump problems when the tank gets low? It causes the engine to sputter with loss of fuel pickup and loose pressure making the mixture lean and that is a death knell for those engines, it need only happen a couple of times..

Revving the engine @ shut down is complete <deleted>..It serves no purpose what-so-ever, in spite of what your "Mazda engineer" says.. It's also best to add premix to the fuel and not worry about keeping it topped up but do keep an eye on the oil for sure..

Yeah don't listen to any site in the US where we successfully raced RX8's since they're arrival as a factory program and won multiple championships with them up until they discontinued them, hell we don't know a thing about the, perfect reason NOT to listen to much of his advice to make such a rubbish closing comment... Only arrogant and smug British sites know the answers but check that site anyway and see how many members on there ARE British, getting their top advice from it..And sharing too.

It just occurred to me, he probably got booted for his rubbish advice so now he has an axe to grind against them..

Speechless eh? Wise choice, better to post nothing and look the fool then to post something foolish and leave no doubt..

He messed up the quote. his post is within yours.