Car seats for children: Govt must help get the cost down

[MaprangHolmes]

Reducing the import tax of child car seats would only benefit a small segment of society who would have bought them anyway. Reducing the price from 15,000 to 12,000 Baht is not going to result in Somchai buying one.

The Govt should encourage the local production of quality child car seats to drastically reduce the price (to, say, 3,000 Baht) - this way, more people would actually buy one.

Knowing the influence of TV, it would help if the Thai soaps/movies were to show children in car seats.

If you go to one of the child fairs they have a few times a year in BBK you can find car seats for 3,000 Baht made by camera but Thais will still not buy them!

[Morch]

Think I smell the next populist policy,buy millions of sub standard kids car seats

from China at well over the market rate,with a nice commission,pay up front for

them,and make a little fuss when they are not delivered as promised,sound familiar?

regards Worgeordie

That, and/or someone already importing them looking to increase profits.

Even at 15k, that's a minor extra for someone who can afford to buy a car.

Not using them is more a matter of attitude and education.

While you don't see a lot of kids car seats, you do see a whole lot of extra audio gear, spoilers, hubcaps, headlights and whatnot.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Morch

[Why ask]

So, car seats, in order to beome cheaper, will now become like plastic bowls with a few fixture clips (similar to an inverted Thai standard bike helmet?)...

I have my new child seat...... now, let me see.... where are those Isofix points in the back of my Isuzu 4x4 again?

Most kid seats in the west can be fixed with the seatbelts in the back seat mine are and whats the point in having kid seats when driving a car that would not even pass any decent crash test in the west.

I drive Honda and Ford. They pass the FMVSS and Euro-Ncap tests with ease.. even in Thailand. I think you missed my point.

[Kudel]

So, car seats, in order to beome cheaper, will now become like plastic bowls with a few fixture clips (similar to an inverted Thai standard bike helmet?)...

I have my new child seat...... now, let me see.... where are those Isofix points in the back of my Isuzu 4x4 again?

Most kid seats in the west can be fixed with the seatbelts in the back seat mine are and whats the point in having kid seats when driving a car that would not even pass any decent crash test in the west.

I drive Honda and Ford. They pass the FMVSS and Euro-Ncap tests with ease.. even in Thailand. I think you missed my point.

Sorry went a little of topic but i was reffering to the isuzu in youre post.

[MMarlow]

In 2011, 614 children under the age of 15 died from road accidents. Some 21 per cent were infants and of the total, 101 were inside a car.

It should be illegal to carry a baby in your open arms, whilst being a passenger on a motorbike.

It is.

[MMarlow]

Many good points made but Somchai will not spend the money no matter what - the money is meant for other very important things:

1. Underground Lottery

2. Playing Cards

3. Drinking

Please tell me I am wrong.

You are wrong.

Who is Somchai, or is that just your derogatory term for Thai people in general?

[Thai at Heart]

Think I smell the next populist policy,buy millions of sub standard kids car seats

from China at well over the market rate,with a nice commission,pay up front for

them,and make a little fuss when they are not delivered as promised,sound familiar?

regards Worgeordie

That, and/or someone already importing them looking to increase profits.

Even at 15k, that's a minor extra for someone who can afford to buy a car.

Not using them is more a matter of attitude and education.

While you don't see a lot of kids car seats, you do see a whole lot of extra audio gear, spoilers, hubcaps, headlights and whatnot.

I saw exactly this at a set of lights.

New civic with every extra under the sun in it. Wife or girlfriend doing her makeup in the mirror with child standing in the foot well of the passenger side.

They don't cost 15k either.

[Thai at Heart]

Many good points made but Somchai will not spend the money no matter what - the money is meant for other very important things:

1. Underground Lottery

2. Playing Cards

3. Drinking

Please tell me I am wrong.

You are wrong.

Who is Somchai, or is that just your derogatory term for Thai people in general?

Could be Somsak.

Why are their Everyday Joes all.over the world.

[MMarlow]

So, car seats, in order to beome cheaper, will now become like plastic bowls with a few fixture clips (similar to an inverted Thai standard bike helmet?)...

I have my new child seat...... now, let me see.... where are those Isofix points in the back of my Isuzu 4x4 again?

Most kid seats in the west can be fixed with the seatbelts in the back seat mine are and whats the point in having kid seats when driving a car that would not even pass any decent crash test in the west.

"...and whats the point in having kid seats...?

Surely you can't be that daft, the intention is for them to save children's lives. What cars are you referring to that wouldn't "pass any decent crash test'?

[gp2002]

Why use a car seat when the child can sit in the driver's comfy lap?

[geriatrickid]

Today, I watched as parents holding toddlers rode their motorbikes through the water throwers on the main drag here in Hua Hin. Speed was enough to splatter the kids' brains in the event of a fall. I also watched as pickup trucks were speeding along with kids packed into the open cargo bay. A sudden stop and they would have been ejected.

And that is why I don't care about child seats. I can't change the way others behave. All I can do is to purchase a proper car seat should I ever need one.

[Kudel]

So, car seats, in order to beome cheaper, will now become like plastic bowls with a few fixture clips (similar to an inverted Thai standard bike helmet?)...

I have my new child seat...... now, let me see.... where are those Isofix points in the back of my Isuzu 4x4 again?

Most kid seats in the west can be fixed with the seatbelts in the back seat mine are and whats the point in having kid seats when driving a car that would not even pass any decent crash test in the west.

"...and whats the point in having kid seats...?

Surely you can't be that daft, the intention is for them to save children's lives. What cars are you referring to that wouldn't "pass any decent crash test'?

those silly isuzu pick up trucks they are crap safety wise.

[richard_smith237]

As some have mentioned already - IF you can afford a car, you can afford a car seat for the child...

The issue is with education - many parents are simply not aware of the risks facing their children in a car. Ask anyone if they would ever run into wall, then explain that cars drive much faster than they can run... many still don't get this, then ask them if they would throw their child at a wall... they still don't get it. Then try and explain that in an accident they won't be able to hold onto their child, he/she will be ripped from their arms with the force of 100's of kilos... they still don't get it...

Ignoring the issue with infants on motorcycles, because economics are a major factor, someone who can afford a car even on finance can afford to purchase a car seat, decent ones can be purchased for THB4000 - This attempt at changing taxation on seats is an excellent idea... I would like to see the law changed to where available seat belts should always be worn in a car (front and back) and that all infants should be in a child seat. Of course, people will break this law, but many will also be saved.

Taking a step in the right direction is always a good thing.

At Bumrungrad Hospital I have seen parents with their most precious of cargo get into their chauffeur driven car... They have taken their Infant child to the best hospital in Thailand, afforded them the best care and are clearly taking every single precaution where their child's medical welfare is concerned. They then place their child on their laps and the car / van drives off... I'm astonished at this complete lack of awareness in people who appear otherwise wealthy and educated.

Edit: While discussing education for the safety of our children in vehicles... How many of us are aware of the additional risk of forwards vs rear facing car seats ?

If I am not mistaken Sweden have a law that all children must remain rear facing until the age of 4... Even though its not the Law in the UK and Thailand I will follow the advice of the Swedish and keep my child rear facing in his isofix car seat for as long as physically possible (i.e. estimated at 4 years old).

Edited April 13, 2014 by richard_smith237

[Why ask]

So, car seats, in order to beome cheaper, will now become like plastic bowls with a few fixture clips (similar to an inverted Thai standard bike helmet?)...

I have my new child seat...... now, let me see.... where are those Isofix points in the back of my Isuzu 4x4 again?

Most kid seats in the west can be fixed with the seatbelts in the back seat mine are and whats the point in having kid seats when driving a car that would not even pass any decent crash test in the west.

"...and whats the point in having kid seats...?

Surely you can't be that daft, the intention is for them to save children's lives. What cars are you referring to that wouldn't "pass any decent crash test'?

I can name a few, including the Isuzu D-Max which fails all Euro N-cap tests for driver speed limitation, plus head on impact damage to driver, passenger, and rear occupants - pertaining particularly to under 3s. I can also list Fords made in China, including the Mondeo and Focus made of inferior cheap materials, which fail even the Chinese N-Cap test miserably.

I do agree with your initial line, however.

[konfuzed]

As said above, I've sat at BNH and seen driver driven Mercedes and other high end cars and parents getting in with kids on laps.

It's more about ignorant parents than anything else. Also ooh baby cry so take it out.

[Why ask]

As some have mentioned already - IF you can afford a car, you can afford a car seat for the child...

The issue is with education - many parents are simply not aware of the risks facing their children in a car. Ask anyone if they would ever run into wall, then explain that cars drive much faster than they can run... many still don't get this, then ask them if they would throw their child at a wall... they still don't get it. Then try and explain that in an accident they won't be able to hold onto their child, he/she will be ripped from their arms with the force of 100's of kilos... they still don't get it...

Ignoring the issue with infants on motorcycles, because economics are a major factor, someone who can afford a car even on finance can afford to purchase a car seat, decent ones can be purchased for THB4000 - This attempt at changing taxation on seats is an excellent idea... I would like to see the law changed to where available seat belts should always be worn in a car (front and back) and that all infants should be in a child seat. Of course, people will break this law, but many will also be saved.

Taking a step in the right direction is always a good thing.

At Bumrungrad Hospital I have seen parents with their most precious of cargo get into their chauffeur driven car... They have taken their Infant child to the best hospital in Thailand, afforded them the best care and are clearly taking every single precaution where their child's medical welfare is concerned. They then place their child on their laps and the car / van drives off... I'm astonished at this complete lack of awareness in people who appear otherwise wealthy and educated.

Edit: While discussing education for the safety of our children in vehicles... How many of us are aware of the additional risk of forwards vs rear facing car seats ?

If I am not mistaken Sweden have a law that all children must remain rear facing until the age of 4... Even though its not the Law in the UK and Thailand I will follow the advice of the Swedish and keep my child rear facing in his isofix car seat for as long as physically possible (i.e. estimated at 4 years old).

Although I agree with most of what you say, and I am an interior car design expert of seats, IPs, impact points etc. (including Euro N-Cap and FMVSS), wouldn't you have first thought, as I mentioned in previous posts, that it is the law that needs changing here first, before education?

Law in the UK is applicable to very well tested ages and weights, and not simply rearward facing children. There are reasons to change rearward to forward facing seats at certain ages, due to bone and chest development stages. Volvo has gone to extremes, and that is not for the bad may I add, but it is not the be all and end all. When designing seat criteria, and positions of occupants, we also have to take into account body in white torsional stiffness, and perfomance of the A, B and C pillars, plus rear impact possibilities (and additionally rear-luggage impacts into the rear seats - hence, it's not quite laid out as simply as you may think).

At least some of us are working to get things changes here in Asian parts.... unfortuantely, not enough!

[Cbr150r]

Last time I renewed my drivers license I had to watch the safety film. Well both mom and dad are buckled in and dad is going through all the motions of safe driving junior is in the back seat standing up. What a farce!

[selftaopath]

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The 'less than 1%' will be Thai mixed kids. Thais don't use car seats at all.

A twist of this point - my Thai sons two kids are well trained to put on their seats belts in the front and the rear seats.

Sons Thai sister in law (about 40 years old) visits from time to time.

When they all get in the car my sons kids automatically buckle up. Aunty was then automatically unbuckling them. My son told her not to unbuckle the kids, her response is 'it's not comfortable for the children and they should be free to play'.

Son always wins the day by saying 'until everybody (including aunty) is buckled up the car doesn't move'. The first time son did this he discovered that five minutes after they departed aunty had unbuckled herself and one of sons kids. Son quickly stopped the car near a close by motorcycle taxi stand and told aunty to get out of the car and take a mocy.

Aunty has since carefully follows sons rules and has toned down a lot on her 'I know everything' attitude and her interference in family matters.

FANTASTIC. A wonderful example of setting boundaries and mature/adult responsibility of you son. I'll bet he learned a thing or two from you and perhaps your Mrs.

Thanks for sharing this enjoyable story.

[rickirs]

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Reducing the import tax of child car seats would only benefit a small segment of society who would have bought them anyway. Reducing the price from 15,000 to 12,000 Baht is not going to result in Somchai buying one.

The Govt should encourage the local production of quality child car seats to drastically reduce the price (to, say, 3,000 Baht) - this way, more people would actually buy one.

Knowing the influence of TV, it would help if the Thai soaps/movies were to show children in car seats.

The government could also mandate that children 5 years or younger must ride in a car seat and assess a 3,000baht penalty. This would drive the number of car seat purchases, create product competition, drive the cost down. No cost to the government.

[mrfill]

...................but they don't fit on the seat of a motorcycle!

I beg to differ

http://www.givi.co.uk/motorbike-accessories/Accessories/S650%20%20-Baby%20Ride

[PatOngo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

...................but they don't fit on the seat of a motorcycle!

I beg to differ

http://www.givi.co.uk/motorbike-accessories/Accessories/S650%20%20-Baby%20Ride

Thanks for the info.......I'm sure every Kh Daeng, Lek and Noi will we be racing out to buy one...........or three.

[attento]

is there a breakdown of the type of vehicle involved in the child fatality incidents ?

Bicycle, scooter, car, open van, truck, bus ?

[Crushdepth]

kids in car seats in Thailand,they wont put on a seat belt that's already in the car.

WHAT NEXT?

Next would be having a real drivers license and real penalties for driving without one

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Followed by stopping at red lights and not anticipating the green.

Sent from somewhere in the Pacific

[hkt83100]

As long as Thai people think it is safe for the driver to have a baby on his lap, these idiots will never buy a children's seat - at whatever low price it may be available.

[tingtongteesood]

My car was blessed by a man at a temple and I have my lucky amulets. What more can I possibly do ? Car seat ? Why waste money ? The blessing and my amulet cost me a lot already...

[ginjag]

As long as Thai people think it is safe for the driver to have a baby on his lap, these idiots will never buy a children's seat - at whatever low price it may be available.

Speaking about majority of attitudes here, safety is rarely on the mind--motor bike---car/pick-up------mini bus BECAUSE they do what THEY want to do.

deaths of friends/relatives rarely make an impact on safety.

Speak the truth - when trying to advise about something to help--we are interfering ---Thai in general rarely see danger, most parents cannot stop their kids from riding/driving illegally.

This topic is near a no go, as the people at the end of the day-do as they like, pay the cops and off again.

[richard_smith237]

As some have mentioned already - IF you can afford a car, you can afford a car seat for the child...

The issue is with education - many parents are simply not aware of the risks facing their children in a car. Ask anyone if they would ever run into wall, then explain that cars drive much faster than they can run... many still don't get this, then ask them if they would throw their child at a wall... they still don't get it. Then try and explain that in an accident they won't be able to hold onto their child, he/she will be ripped from their arms with the force of 100's of kilos... they still don't get it...

Ignoring the issue with infants on motorcycles, because economics are a major factor, someone who can afford a car even on finance can afford to purchase a car seat, decent ones can be purchased for THB4000 - This attempt at changing taxation on seats is an excellent idea... I would like to see the law changed to where available seat belts should always be worn in a car (front and back) and that all infants should be in a child seat. Of course, people will break this law, but many will also be saved.

Taking a step in the right direction is always a good thing.

At Bumrungrad Hospital I have seen parents with their most precious of cargo get into their chauffeur driven car... They have taken their Infant child to the best hospital in Thailand, afforded them the best care and are clearly taking every single precaution where their child's medical welfare is concerned. They then place their child on their laps and the car / van drives off... I'm astonished at this complete lack of awareness in people who appear otherwise wealthy and educated.

Edit: While discussing education for the safety of our children in vehicles... How many of us are aware of the additional risk of forwards vs rear facing car seats ?

If I am not mistaken Sweden have a law that all children must remain rear facing until the age of 4... Even though its not the Law in the UK and Thailand I will follow the advice of the Swedish and keep my child rear facing in his isofix car seat for as long as physically possible (i.e. estimated at 4 years old).

Although I agree with most of what you say, and I am an interior car design expert of seats, IPs, impact points etc. (including Euro N-Cap and FMVSS), wouldn't you have first thought, as I mentioned in previous posts, that it is the law that needs changing here first, before education?

Law in the UK is applicable to very well tested ages and weights, and not simply rearward facing children. There are reasons to change rearward to forward facing seats at certain ages, due to bone and chest development stages. Volvo has gone to extremes, and that is not for the bad may I add, but it is not the be all and end all. When designing seat criteria, and positions of occupants, we also have to take into account body in white torsional stiffness, and perfomance of the A, B and C pillars, plus rear impact possibilities (and additionally rear-luggage impacts into the rear seats - hence, it's not quite laid out as simply as you may think).

At least some of us are working to get things changes here in Asian parts.... unfortuantely, not enough!

My thoughts are that both the Law needs changing and the populace better educated...

With experience such as yours you may be able to provide a Wealth of Knowledge and experience to those of us wishing to provide the safest options for our children.

Apologies for going off-topic with a question I'd like to keep in this thread as many others may find the information I'm asking for of value too:

Which Stage 1 (up to 18kg) car seat would you recommend ?

Criteria:

Isofix fitting (safest fitting for use with the isofix base in the main car)

Option to be used with a 3 point seatbelt only (as we may switch between cars and grandparents cars and also travel overseas with the seat).

Airline friendly (for use in the plane)

Rear and forward facing (for versatility - plane use forwards)

In my research the Clek Foonf or Britax Dualfix appear to be the best seats but both are missing options I'd like.

It doesn't matter to me if they approval is specific to European or North American standards (certification) as a good seat approved in North America but not yet approved in the UK (and thus illegal) is still a good seat.

[Why ask]

As some have mentioned already - IF you can afford a car, you can afford a car seat for the child...

The issue is with education - many parents are simply not aware of the risks facing their children in a car. Ask anyone if they would ever run into wall, then explain that cars drive much faster than they can run... many still don't get this, then ask them if they would throw their child at a wall... they still don't get it. Then try and explain that in an accident they won't be able to hold onto their child, he/she will be ripped from their arms with the force of 100's of kilos... they still don't get it...

Ignoring the issue with infants on motorcycles, because economics are a major factor, someone who can afford a car even on finance can afford to purchase a car seat, decent ones can be purchased for THB4000 - This attempt at changing taxation on seats is an excellent idea... I would like to see the law changed to where available seat belts should always be worn in a car (front and back) and that all infants should be in a child seat. Of course, people will break this law, but many will also be saved.

Taking a step in the right direction is always a good thing.

At Bumrungrad Hospital I have seen parents with their most precious of cargo get into their chauffeur driven car... They have taken their Infant child to the best hospital in Thailand, afforded them the best care and are clearly taking every single precaution where their child's medical welfare is concerned. They then place their child on their laps and the car / van drives off... I'm astonished at this complete lack of awareness in people who appear otherwise wealthy and educated.

Edit: While discussing education for the safety of our children in vehicles... How many of us are aware of the additional risk of forwards vs rear facing car seats ?

If I am not mistaken Sweden have a law that all children must remain rear facing until the age of 4... Even though its not the Law in the UK and Thailand I will follow the advice of the Swedish and keep my child rear facing in his isofix car seat for as long as physically possible (i.e. estimated at 4 years old).

Although I agree with most of what you say, and I am an interior car design expert of seats, IPs, impact points etc. (including Euro N-Cap and FMVSS), wouldn't you have first thought, as I mentioned in previous posts, that it is the law that needs changing here first, before education?

Law in the UK is applicable to very well tested ages and weights, and not simply rearward facing children. There are reasons to change rearward to forward facing seats at certain ages, due to bone and chest development stages. Volvo has gone to extremes, and that is not for the bad may I add, but it is not the be all and end all. When designing seat criteria, and positions of occupants, we also have to take into account body in white torsional stiffness, and perfomance of the A, B and C pillars, plus rear impact possibilities (and additionally rear-luggage impacts into the rear seats - hence, it's not quite laid out as simply as you may think).

At least some of us are working to get things changes here in Asian parts.... unfortuantely, not enough!

My thoughts are that both the Law needs changing and the populace better educated...

With experience such as yours you may be able to provide a Wealth of Knowledge and experience to those of us wishing to provide the safest options for our children.

Apologies for going off-topic with a question I'd like to keep in this thread as many others may find the information I'm asking for of value too:

Which Stage 1 (up to 18kg) car seat would you recommend ?

Criteria:

Isofix fitting (safest fitting for use with the isofix base in the main car)

Option to be used with a 3 point seatbelt only (as we may switch between cars and grandparents cars and also travel overseas with the seat).

Airline friendly (for use in the plane)

Rear and forward facing (for versatility - plane use forwards)

In my research the Clek Foonf or Britax Dualfix appear to be the best seats but both are missing options I'd like.

It doesn't matter to me if they approval is specific to European or North American standards (certification) as a good seat approved in North America but not yet approved in the UK (and thus illegal) is still a good seat.

I appreciate your concerns, but I cannot answer interchangability questions regarding switching between car manufacturers, or grandparents, or even vehicle manufacturers, as all would be unorthodox to do so.

As a designer at Jaguar cars ( as it once was ), we worked directly with Britax.... cum Dupont inclusion in the South of England at that time, and their child seats in our opinion, and mine, were the better or best in the world, regarding materials used (latest induced polymers, cheapest forms of POM, etc.).

Of course, Isofix pointing depends upon the car you own, or intend to buy. Three point is the best (although, I am personally working on a 4 point, linking rear alternate side belts to rear side belts, with occupant sensors down to 2 Kg , including seat weight placed upon seat) .

Tell me more about your research options.... via pm pls.........

[lawrence1366]

kids in car seats in Thailand,they wont put on a seat belt that's already in the car.

WHAT NEXT?

Don't forget the helmets for all motorcyclists...still a pain trying to enforce that rule too...didn't work to well in the province. Having rules is not good enough as we all know, enforcement is the biggest issue in most countries that has a failed system. Same goes to drunk drivers, speedsters, overworked bus drivers high on redbull....these are all adults who flout the law, so what makes them think that they will comply with the car seats rule? Zero chance.

[01322521959]

What about booster cushions for the older kids so they can use a standard seat belt, and how the hell can we expect any change here anyway. The whole attitude here is ridiculous. Thai law = Oxymoron