Bad experience at a private hospital cardiology department

[longway]

I had to go get a heart murmur detected in a medical check up a few weeks ago.

I initially decided to go to (private international hospital - name removed by Moderator) as it us where my company sends me to do medicals in Thailand, and it is supposed to be a good hospital even though pricey.

I would not recommend their cardiology department to anyone, tbf my experience may be due to one 'bad egg' but i am certainly not going to use them again.

I made an appointment and went to see the doctor and explained to him that my offshore medical detected a heart murmur and i needed to get it checked out before i could be handed my full fit to work certificate.

Initially i do an ecg and an echocardiogram, both are performed by the nurse and the doctor comes in a bit later, he doesnt tell me much apart from telling me i might hv cardiovascular disease and my company might not want me to work offshore with my condition, but he needs to do a cat scan before he can tell me more, then disappears. I try to ask to see him before my cat scan so he can explain more, but he is unavailable.

I do the cat scan a couple of hours later and am in front of the doc again in the afternoon, hoping for some clarity. He now declares i hv stenosis in my right conorary artery showing my one page out of 30 from my cat scan and says now a stress mri is necessary so he can see if this artery is affecting my blood supply to the heart.

By now i am pretty annoyed with his coy ways and start pushing him for answers and take the report out of his hands and start going through it. He is very evasive and it is hard to pin him down. The only time he lights up is when i ask him about putting in a stent and i realise that he is very unethical and is basically holding the letter i need as hostage to keep on getting me to do increasingly expensive tests picking out any irregularity as a justification.

Later on reading the cat report carefully the artery which shows some narrowing, but is far from stenosis, is in fact my left descending artery! What a .

On advice i now head off to ramathibodi, a semi public hospital with private treatment options. Its a confusing place and people with no thai skills will find it difficult to get around, but basically go to the 4th floor in the new building to register and you will be pointed in the right direction.

There are longer waits involved, and the hospital is decent but nothing like (the private hospital) but the doctor there was great, a young guy with excellent english who was vey open about everything. He said he could find out everything he needed to know from a stress echocardiogram and looking at the cat scan he did not see any stenosis!

I did the test the next week and everything checked out and he wrote the letter i needed immediately. It was all done at a fraction of the price and far more ethical and my issues were fully explained to me. I just need to monitor it and do a echocardigram once a year to keep track.

I have the feeling the other doc would have opened me up and shoved a stent into me the next day if i was unwary.

Avoid (private hospital) imo, they are only interested in extracting the contents of your wallet not helping you in any way.

[h90]

I had some unprofessional treatment when I went there with an allergic....Nothing live threatening just itching nose and eye, but the service I got was the same as if I would have went in the next pharmacy without Doc.

[Sheryl]

Thread title and some posts have been edited to remove the hospital name, both because of Thai defamation laws and also because it is simply unfair to label an entire hospital based on experience with one out of hundreds of doctors there. Bad doctors can be found in all hospitals, and I know for a fact, from, first hand experience, that there are many excellent doctors at the hospital the OP initially went to.

A statement like "they are only interested in extracting the contents of your wallet not helping you" makes absolutely no sense because a hospital is not a "they", it is a building. Doctors in private hospitals are not employees of the hospital, they are independent professionals who have an arrangement with the hospital to use their facilities for out-patient consultations and to admit patients to it. Many -- indeed most -- have this arrangement at more than one hospital.

Whatever hospital one goes to, need to carefully choose the doctor. Many hospitals - including the one OP originally went to -- lists doctor qualifications on their website, making it easy to pre-select one with top qualifications. The kind of behavior described is not likely to be encountered among the top doctors, sounds more like a mediocre one trying to drum up business. The ones with top qualifications have no need to do anything like that.

All that said, it does indeed sound like the OP was taken for something of a ride -- by an individual doctor, not by a hospital. OP should however keep tabs on the narrowing of the coronary artery (though it has nothing to do, one way or the other, with the murmur). Annual stress tests (which cost about 2,000 baht only) are fine for that purpose. Should also attend to any risk factors you may have in terms of smoking, diet etc...in order not to end up genuinely needing a stent.

[thepool]

In adults a "heart murmur" is either a totally innocent or acquired heart valve or other disease such as Hyperthyroidism .

Both require some fairly basic investigation ECG+ECHO as a starter !

Hope that the necessary blood investigations were undertaken

.Seems that the OP's heart was in fact "normal"

Edit

It would be unusual for a nurse to undertake a cardiac ultrasound examination --------perhaps the OP was mistaking the female sonographer for a nurse !

Edited April 25, 2014 by thepool

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I did the test the next week and everything checked out and he wrote the letter i needed immediately. It was all done at a fraction of the price of bnh and far more ethical and my issues were fully explained to me. I just need to monitor it and do a echocardigram once a year to keep track.

Disappointing that the OP had such a seemingly bad experience with the private doctor/hospital he visited in BKK.

I've seen several different doctors at that hospital over a period of years, and had very good experiences with most of them.

But as Sheryl said, it comes down more to the goods and bads of individual doctors. You can't judge an entire hospital based on a good or bad experience with one particular doctor there.

[TerryLH]

"A statement like "they are only interested in extracting the contents of your wallet not helping you" makes absolutely no sense because a hospital is not a "they", it is a building."

"Doctors in private hospitals are not employees of the hospital, they are independent professionals who have an arrangement with the hospital to use their facilities for out-patient consultations and to admit patients to it."

My opinion.

If I didn't know better, or at least think I do, I'd think you are a tout for that hospital.

If you read the entire post, it makes a lot of sense. He was upset and was giving his opinion of his experience.

Do you seriously think that anyone who read the post was thinking that 'a building' was trying to get his money?

While the doctor may be a private contractor, and not an employee, they still represent the hospital and the contractor/employee distinction is probably blurred in most peoples minds. A bad experience will naturally reflect poorly on both the doctor and the hospital.

In my opinion, you could have left out most of your second paragraph and had a stellar post, as usual.

Keep up the good work. The experience you have, and the knowledge you share, is invaluable.

Terry

[Sheryl]

Sorry, but I stand by it, the problem being the use of "they" and the assumption that what this one individual did is somehow part of an intention on the part of the entire hospital.

[h90]

Thread title and some posts have been edited to remove the hospital name, both because of Thai defamation laws and also because it is simply unfair to label an entire hospital based on experience with one out of hundreds of doctors there. Bad doctors can be found in all hospitals, and I know for a fact, from, first hand experience, that there are many excellent doctors at the hospital the OP initially went to.

A statement like "they are only interested in extracting the contents of your wallet not helping you" makes absolutely no sense because a hospital is not a "they", it is a building. Doctors in private hospitals are not employees of the hospital, they are independent professionals who have an arrangement with the hospital to use their facilities for out-patient consultations and to admit patients to it. Many -- indeed most -- have this arrangement at more than one hospital.

Whatever hospital one goes to, need to carefully choose the doctor. Many hospitals - including the one OP originally went to -- lists doctor qualifications on their website, making it easy to pre-select one with top qualifications. The kind of behavior described is not likely to be encountered among the top doctors, sounds more like a mediocre one trying to drum up business. The ones with top qualifications have no need to do anything like that.

All that said, it does indeed sound like the OP was taken for something of a ride -- by an individual doctor, not by a hospital. OP should however keep tabs on the narrowing of the coronary artery (though it has nothing to do, one way or the other, with the murmur). Annual stress tests (which cost about 2,000 baht only) are fine for that purpose. Should also attend to any risk factors you may have in terms of smoking, diet etc...in order not to end up genuinely needing a stent.

While I agree with you, still the hospital is responsible for the Quality Management. You go in an expensive hospital in the hope that everything will be perfect there. And of course not everyone can go to the top doctors.

In my case: I came with allergy (itching running nose and eyes), the doc say me 5 seconds and wrote 3 kind of tablets which I should eat daily (for the rest of my life?) and I would have been out of the door. When I insisted to do a test against which polen I am allergic (I thought the allergic is seasonal), I got a sour face and told that there are no allergies against Thai flowers (true or not?) on further insisting they made a test (the test room was full, so maybe a other doctor send his customer to make a test) and found out I am allergic against house dust, mite (spelling??) cockroaches and I finally got kicked out. No recommendations. I took out the carpets. Problem fixed.

(beside they didn't test me for animals. I am allergic against dogs, which I know since a long time, they didn't ask, they didn't test).

Is there no Quality Managment, no Standard Procedures in such a big hospital? Every doctor is doing what comes in his/her mind?

[Sheryl]

While I agree with you, still the hospital is responsible for the Quality Management. You go in an expensive hospital in the hope that everything will be perfect there. And of course not everyone can go to the top doctors.

In my case: I came with allergy (itching running nose and eyes), the doc say me 5 seconds and wrote 3 kind of tablets which I should eat daily (for the rest of my life?) and I would have been out of the door. When I insisted to do a test against which polen I am allergic (I thought the allergic is seasonal), I got a sour face and told that there are no allergies against Thai flowers (true or not?) on further insisting they made a test (the test room was full, so maybe a other doctor send his customer to make a test) and found out I am allergic against house dust, mite (spelling??) cockroaches and I finally got kicked out. No recommendations. I took out the carpets. Problem fixed.

(beside they didn't test me for animals. I am allergic against dogs, which I know since a long time, they didn't ask, they didn't test).

Is there no Quality Managment, no Standard Procedures in such a big hospital? Every doctor is doing what comes in his/her mind?

There are quality standards with regard to the actions of direct hospital employees, e.g. lab procedures, imaging dept procedures, nursing care. And in most places these work pretty well and achieve a fair degree of uniformity.

AFAIK there is little or nothing in regard to medical decisions by doctors.

So the short answer is - yes, pretty much every doctor does do what they see fit. If it comes to the attention of hospital administrators that there have been a lot of complaints about a particular doctor they might terminate that doctor's privileges at their hospital but AFAIK there is no overall surveillance of what the doctors are doing. People who believe they have encountered negligence or unethical behavior should, therefore, always make a formal complaint to the hospital administration. Posting complaints in TV won't help (and telling people to "avoid hospital X" is unwarranted unless these experiences have been had repeatedly with many different doctors at the same place). But complaints to the administrator can have an effect. At a minimum, feedback will get to the doctor in question from a source he will respect, which may make him clean up his act a bit.

This is not only a Thai phenomena; in private hospitals in the West as well, doctors have great leeway. It is in my experience only in government hospitals/health services that doctors are held to uniform standards of practice - which can be both a plus and a minus (not unusual for people to pay out of pocket specifically to get around cookie-cutter procedures, rules and protocols enforced by National Health Services). Of course where there is a big difference is that in Western countries fear of malpractice suits and/or complaints to the Medical Council carry clout and help curb negligence/malfeasance. Also in the West, many private hospitals have some type of ombudsman making it easy for patients and relatives to register their complains (again, motivated by the desire to avoid lawsuits), I don't find this in Thai hospitals as a rule.

If you are going to any medical facility with the "hope that everything will be perfect there", no matter which facility or in what country, you are bound to be disappointed. There is no such place. One must always take care with selection of doctors and be alert to what is going on/ ready to question.

A few illustrations of what I am trying to say:

- The problems encountered by the OP are documented in his post. In this exact same hospital, I have encountered top notch care and doctors who even waived their consultation fee. On one recent occasion I went to this hospital fully prepared to consent to very expensive surgery (and amply insured to pay for it). The specialist declined to operate because he believed the problem could be resolved through more conservative and very inexpensive outpatient care. (he proved right). Same hospital.

- Another even higher profile private international hospital is accurately known for its high (and rising) rates and has often been cited by posters for attempts to make as much money as possible. Yet a recent poster went there for a consultation and did not pay a thing as the doctor refused to charge a consultation fee, despite having spent time reviewing test results to provide a second opinion on treatment. This same hospital is frequently cited for a mechanistic approach, trying to see as many patients in as short a time as possible and spending too little time with each (many, many complaints to this effect from many different people seeing different doctors). Yet I brought a poor Thai neighbor there for consultation with a top specialist because he simply was not getting any information or explanation from the doctors at the government hospital (talk about rushing and not explaining things...the worst private hospital is nothing compared to the public ones on that score!). The doctor, who is in high demand, had a very full waiting room, but he put his schedule aside, told everyone else they'd need to wait, and spent a full hour with this unfortunate man explaining everything and answering all his questions. He then told us frankly that the hospital admin did not want doctors to give patients scripts to fill outside the hospital so he would dispense just a few days meds and tell us what to buy outside, in order to save money. And about a year ago, very worried about something I consulted a different top specialist. He not only spent a huge amount of time with me but followed up, at not charge, with many email exchanges with me to answer my concerns. And another TV member recently consulted this same doctor and was very happy with the time spent and quality of advice. Same hospital.

- There is a well known not-for-profit private hospital which I have used many times over the years, as well as being admitted to, and one of the things that has always impressed me has been the general lack of profit-seeking as well as comparatively low prices. And on the whole both I and people I have referred there have gotten good care. Yet when my sister went there for an outpatient colonoscopy the Admissions Office attempted to force us to pay for an expensive VIP room, concealed the existence of cheaper rooms and so forth, clearly in an effort to get more money out of us. And I once consulted a specialist well qualified on paper for a condition that I knew warranted an outpatient test. He tried to tell me it required overnight admission and then further estimated an exorbitant price for the whole thing -- literally twice that of the fanciest/most upscale private hospital (needless to say, I walked). Same hospital .

I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. Mediocre or even outright poor quality doctors are to be found everywhere, there is no hospital -- anywhere in the world, in my experience -- that doesn't have at least some. Doctors (and sometimes other staff) who intentionally seek to maximize profit without regard for the patient's best interest you will not encounter at a government hospital but you will find at least some pretty much everywhere else, including even the non-profits.

I fare better than most in my experience with Thai doctors because I spend a large amount of prepatory time researching who the best one for a particular need is, and I do not stick to any particular hospital, rather taking use of any and all depending on where the person with the best expertise is to be found. But even so I occasionally get stuck with a bad apple, as in the example above.

[h90]

While I agree with you, still the hospital is responsible for the Quality Management. You go in an expensive hospital in the hope that everything will be perfect there. And of course not everyone can go to the top doctors.

In my case: I came with allergy (itching running nose and eyes), the doc say me 5 seconds and wrote 3 kind of tablets which I should eat daily (for the rest of my life?) and I would have been out of the door. When I insisted to do a test against which polen I am allergic (I thought the allergic is seasonal), I got a sour face and told that there are no allergies against Thai flowers (true or not?) on further insisting they made a test (the test room was full, so maybe a other doctor send his customer to make a test) and found out I am allergic against house dust, mite (spelling??) cockroaches and I finally got kicked out. No recommendations. I took out the carpets. Problem fixed.

(beside they didn't test me for animals. I am allergic against dogs, which I know since a long time, they didn't ask, they didn't test).

Is there no Quality Managment, no Standard Procedures in such a big hospital? Every doctor is doing what comes in his/her mind?

There are quality standards with regard to the actions of direct hospital employees, e.g. lab procedures, imaging dept procedures, nursing care. And in most places these work pretty well and achieve a fair degree of uniformity.

AFAIK there is little or nothing in regard to medical decisions by doctors.

So the short answer is - yes, pretty much every doctor does do what they see fit. If it comes to the attention of hospital administrators that there have been a lot of complaints about a particular doctor they might terminate that doctor's privileges at their hospital but AFAIK there is no overall surveillance of what the doctors are doing. People who believe they have encountered negligence or unethical behavior should, therefore, always make a formal complaint to the hospital administration. Posting complaints in TV won't help (and telling people to "avoid hospital X" is unwarranted unless these experiences have been had repeatedly with many different doctors at the same place). But complaints to the administrator can have an effect. At a minimum, feedback will get to the doctor in question from a source he will respect, which may make him clean up his act a bit.

This is not only a Thai phenomena; in private hospitals in the West as well, doctors have great leeway. It is in my experience only in government hospitals/health services that doctors are held to uniform standards of practice - which can be both a plus and a minus (not unusual for people to pay out of pocket specifically to get around cookie-cutter procedures, rules and protocols enforced by National Health Services). Of course where there is a big difference is that in Western countries fear of malpractice suits and/or complaints to the Medical Council carry clout and help curb negligence/malfeasance. Also in the West, many private hospitals have some type of ombudsman making it easy for patients and relatives to register their complains (again, motivated by the desire to avoid lawsuits), I don't find this in Thai hospitals as a rule.

If you are going to any medical facility with the "hope that everything will be perfect there", no matter which facility or in what country, you are bound to be disappointed. There is no such place. One must always take care with selection of doctors and be alert to what is going on/ ready to question.

A few illustrations of what I am trying to say:

- The problems encountered by the OP are documented in his post. In this exact same hospital, I have encountered top notch care and doctors who even waived their consultation fee. On one recent occasion I went to this hospital fully prepared to consent to very expensive surgery (and amply insured to pay for it). The specialist declined to operate because he believed the problem could be resolved through more conservative and very inexpensive outpatient care. (he proved right). Same hospital.

- Another even higher profile private international hospital is accurately known for its high (and rising) rates and has often been cited by posters for attempts to make as much money as possible. Yet a recent poster went there for a consultation and did not pay a thing as the doctor refused to charge a consultation fee, despite having spent time reviewing test results to provide a second opinion on treatment. This same hospital is frequently cited for a mechanistic approach, trying to see as many patients in as short a time as possible and spending too little time with each (many, many complaints to this effect from many different people seeing different doctors). Yet I brought a poor Thai neighbor there for consultation with a top specialist because he simply was not getting any information or explanation from the doctors at the government hospital (talk about rushing and not explaining things...the worst private hospital is nothing compared to the public ones on that score!). The doctor, who is in high demand, had a very full waiting room, but he put his schedule aside, told everyone else they'd need to wait, and spent a full hour with this unfortunate man explaining everything and answering all his questions. He then told us frankly that the hospital admin did not want doctors to give patients scripts to fill outside the hospital so he would dispense just a few days meds and tell us what to buy outside, in order to save money. And about a year ago, very worried about something I consulted a different top specialist. He not only spent a huge amount of time with me but followed up, at not charge, with many email exchanges with me to answer my concerns. And another TV member recently consulted this same doctor and was very happy with the time spent and quality of advice. Same hospital.

- There is a well known not-for-profit private hospital which I have used many times over the years, as well as being admitted to, and one of the things that has always impressed me has been the general lack of profit-seeking as well as comparatively low prices. And on the whole both I and people I have referred there have gotten good care. Yet when my sister went there for an outpatient colonoscopy the Admissions Office attempted to force us to pay for an expensive VIP room, concealed the existence of cheaper rooms and so forth, clearly in an effort to get more money out of us. And I once consulted a specialist well qualified on paper for a condition that I knew warranted an outpatient test. He tried to tell me it required overnight admission and then further estimated an exorbitant price for the whole thing -- literally twice that of the fanciest/most upscale private hospital (needless to say, I walked). Same hospital .

I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. Mediocre or even outright poor quality doctors are to be found everywhere, there is no hospital -- anywhere in the world, in my experience -- that doesn't have at least some. Doctors (and sometimes other staff) who intentionally seek to maximize profit without regard for the patient's best interest you will not encounter at a government hospital but you will find at least some pretty much everywhere else, including even the non-profits.

I fare better than most in my experience with Thai doctors because I spend a large amount of prepatory time researching who the best one for a particular need is, and I do not stick to any particular hospital, rather taking use of any and all depending on where the person with the best expertise is to be found. But even so I occasionally get stuck with a bad apple, as in the example above.

I understand....Where I come from are all (with very few exceptions) government hospitals with "free" healthy care and there is always the discussion of the standardized practice. Where ever you walk in with the same case, exactly the same things with the same results should happen. I see that it has big advantages and big disadvantages.

I didn't know that. Thank you for explaining it in detail

[pauleddy]

Some years ago I had chest pain and I saw the head cardiologist at a private hospital somewhere near Vic Monument.

After the ecg, a CAT scan showed some calcification in all 3 main CAs. I was persuaded to stay in CCU, even though the calcification is "normal" for a person of my age. With hindsight, there were no acute ecg changes and a balloon or stent (for serious blockage) was not even considered, although I was advised to have a very expensive Rotorblator (300,000b) procedure, which is not popular among all cardios (its something like a tiny dentist drill that whirrs thru the arteries).

Luckily, my hospital of choice (with SSecurity) is the city's Number 1 University Hospital, and I asked a contact to get me transferred there.

I have medical knowledge, but I'm not a cardiologist nor an interventional cardiologist. 33,000 baht poorer, I saw a top government cardio prof the next day. I went home with tablets and appointments for a ('free') nuclear scan and ('free') stress test

In my later research, I discovered that the 'private' guy had been eased out of senior job in the States for arguing with very senior cardiologists and generally getting a bad press for himself at the golf club. Despite my background experience, I was rather shocked at the time so I agreed to this 'initial' treatment. Some weeks later, I realised that, although no professional error or malpractice had been involved, I had been given 6-star treatment when 3-star would have been enough. Another cardio prof. agreed with me.

Somebody above mentioned a famous mechanistic hospital which has ice-cream and hamburger parlors. This is not the same hospital, by the way, although I was quoted 80,000b plus bloodwork plus ultrasound, over 100,000b, for some scope work which would cost 40,000 in other places. I refused and fled.

Be very careful.

Good MDs train for 5-6 years basic and then another 8 years as interns, residents and so on before they are Staff Grade (Consultants) They deserve a good salary. However, there is a difference between good work and milking people for money.

Eddy

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Somebody above mentioned a famous mechanistic hospital which has ice-cream and hamburger parlors.

So now we're down to coded references for the different hospitals around the city where folks here have had bad experiences (or just experiences).

I guess I can understand why.... since it's not much different from the Thai government folks referring to parties involved in supposed wrongdoing by the person who's name begins with the letter such and such.

So, FWIW, in my experience:

The mechanistic hospital, while I'm sure it has some very good doctors, seems to have done enough to deserve its code name reference that will be recognized without doubt by many here.

The other high priced private hospital not in Sukhumvit but with a letter also beginning in the early part of the alphabet has, in my experience, some quite good and well-considered doctors. But they certainly operate in various ways to also ensure sufficient bills.

Meanwhile, I and my family have had a series of terrible diagnostic experiences with different doctors in different departments at a certain non profit hospital that has an affiliation with a certain religious group and has a name that begins with a letter toward the end of the alphabet.

Hey...this is getting to be kind of fun... Kind of like hospital name charades...

Edited April 26, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[longway]

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In adults a "heart murmur" is either a totally innocent or acquired heart valve or other disease such as Hyperthyroidism .

Both require some fairly basic investigation ECG+ECHO as a starter !

Hope that the necessary blood investigations were undertaken

.Seems that the OP's heart was in fact "normal"

Edit

It would be unusual for a nurse to undertake a cardiac ultrasound examination --------perhaps the OP was mistaking the female sonographer for a nurse !

I have an underlying condition that is causing the murmur; its nothing to do with stenosis or atherosclerosis, he was stressing the possibility of this condition as he could make me do expensive tests. He was a very tricky little fellow, not at all who you would want involved with your health or career.

[pauleddy]

A 'second division' hospital, the name of which is directly similar to the late Italian film director's second/middle name, and which is to be found very close to the BTS line, has made some considerable investment lately and is still a lot less expensive than the place with Soda parlors. I was required to stay overnight there last year, and the room/nursing were very good.

As of this year, XRays there have become automated (screen transfer), just like the hospitals which have names beginning with the first letters of honey-producing insects. Your doctor can now see your Xray without a porter carrying it 500 meters in a brown envelope.

Although I would not imagine that this hospital does trunk aortic daflon grafts or DNA analysis every day, it seems absolutely fine for most surgical and medical procedures, and costs about 50% of the Soda Pop Shop.

Eddy

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm hardly an Italian cinema buff, but are you talking about Pier's place???

[FBN]

A 'second division' hospital, the name of which is directly similar to the late Italian film director's second/middle name, and which is to be found very close to the BTS line, has made some considerable investment lately and is still a lot less expensive than the place with Soda parlors. I was required to stay overnight there last year, and the room/nursing were very good.

As of this year, XRays there have become automated (screen transfer), just like the hospitals which have names beginning with the first letters of honey-producing insects. Your doctor can now see your Xray without a porter carrying it 500 meters in a brown envelope.

Although I would not imagine that this hospital does trunk aortic daflon grafts or DNA analysis every day, it seems absolutely fine for most surgical and medical procedures, and costs about 50% of the Soda Pop Shop.

Eddy

No issue with naming this facility in this instance; the problem with the OP's case is the Thai defamation law one. This clearly puts Thai Visa at risk of getting dragged into a legal case. Same with the forum rule on posting on acquisition of drugs etc "illegally" ie without prescription when required..

[tkramer]

As I believe Sheryl implied...buy the Doctor, not the Hospital.

[ezzra]

This is an open secrete that health institutions, doctors and medicines provider and dispensers

are mostly concern about the bottom line figures, namely money, they see nothing wrong with

over prescribing medicines and treatments and many cases specially when in so called private

hospital or when insurance company pays the bills, any one who thinks differently is only

deluding them selves....

[Genericnic]

I did the test the next week and everything checked out and he wrote the letter i needed immediately. It was all done at a fraction of the price of bnh and far more ethical and my issues were fully explained to me. I just need to monitor it and do a echocardigram once a year to keep track.

Disappointing that the OP had such a seemingly bad experience with the private doctor/hospital he visited in BKK.

I've seen several different doctors at that hospital over a period of years, and had very good experiences with most of them.

But as Sheryl said, it comes down more to the goods and bads of individual doctors. You can't judge an entire hospital based on a good or bad experience with one particular doctor there.

Agreed with the need to delete the names of hospitals or the individual doctors due to Thailand's draconian libel laws, however, once deleted, the entire post becomes irrelevant. They then have the vagueness expressed in the comedian's joke about the press statement of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld: "I don't know where. I don't know when. But something bad is going to happen."

David

[marinediscoking]

These private hospitals here scare the crap out me, the more first hand stories I hear the worse it gets. I hope if i am ever in an emergency situation I don't get rapped like my friends have been or able to get up to bangkok from pattaya.

For the past week I have been experiencing prolonged painful chest pains so after seeing that they were not going away I decided to go to Bangkok Christian Hospital and see a cardiologist. After reading several posts here on TV, I would have preferred to go to Chula, but seems like it is too busy there so that I choose BCH which uses Chula if there has to be an echocardiogram done. Other TVM's have reported good results and they are a non-profit hospital.

So after being told to just come in at 8am the next day I would be seen by one which I was. I was seen by Dr. Soontorndhada who's english was fairly good and did not seem to rush considering the waiting area was busy. He recommended a stress test, so after going upstairs and doing the test with him he said said my heart seems fine, even after running the test longer than normal as I am a jogger to see if he could get my heart rate faster. I asked if an CT scan or echocardiogram would help but he said he is 80% confident there is nothing wrong with my heart and I even asked would he do anything different if it was one of his family members, he said no, not at this point. He seems to think it is Acid reflux which another doctor there I saw later agreed with and put me on medication for 2 weeks. After this they will run some more tests if the pain does not go away.

After being happily relieved from the news I was charged 3,500 for the Stress test and then 1,000 from the acid reflux doctor plus 100 the meds. Very reasonable considering all the time the dockers spent on me. I spent about 2 1/2 hours there.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Marine, hope the BCH doctors are correct in their diagnosis.

FWIW, some years back, I had a very demanding period at work where I was consistently working very long hours, going home, eating and then immediately going to bed. And repeat and repeat.

One night, I too had bad pain in my chest, and it was such that I did something I've rarely ever done in my life. Went to a hospital emergency room near my home in the U.S. about 10 pm one night fearing that I might be having a heart attack. The doctors did an EKG and various other tests, and happily pronounced that I was having a bout of acid reflux.

Never ever had a recurrence of that after that one time. But that night, I was really scared.

[tingtongteesood]

Had abdominal pain, shelled out about 5000 baht for injection, ink xray etc. They told me I had a kidney stone, I forget how much they wanted but they could cut it out for less or break it up with sound waves for more money. I walked away and 5 years later never had the same problem. I think they were trying to milk me. This was a well known private hospital in Ramkamhang. NEVER going there again. Had other small experiences of doctors / clinics trying to milk me, small or large scale, either way, it is about trying to squeeze as much as they can out of you before you walk away.

[circusman]

Thread title and some posts have been edited to remove the hospital name, both because of Thai defamation laws and also because it is simply unfair to label an entire hospital based on experience with one out of hundreds of doctors there. Bad doctors can be found in all hospitals, and I know for a fact, from, first hand experience, that there are many excellent doctors at the hospital the OP initially went to.

A statement like "they are only interested in extracting the contents of your wallet not helping you" makes absolutely no sense because a hospital is not a "they", it is a building. Doctors in private hospitals are not employees of the hospital, they are independent professionals who have an arrangement with the hospital to use their facilities for out-patient consultations and to admit patients to it. Many -- indeed most -- have this arrangement at more than one hospital.

Whatever hospital one goes to, need to carefully choose the doctor. Many hospitals - including the one OP originally went to -- lists doctor qualifications on their website, making it easy to pre-select one with top qualifications. The kind of behavior described is not likely to be encountered among the top doctors, sounds more like a mediocre one trying to drum up business. The ones with top qualifications have no need to do anything like that.

All that said, it does indeed sound like the OP was taken for something of a ride -- by an individual doctor, not by a hospital. OP should however keep tabs on the narrowing of the coronary artery (though it has nothing to do, one way or the other, with the murmur). Annual stress tests (which cost about 2,000 baht only) are fine for that purpose. Should also attend to any risk factors you may have in terms of smoking, diet etc...in order not to end up genuinely needing a stent.

A moderator giving medical advice ?

[thepool]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thread title and some posts have been edited to remove the hospital name, both because of Thai defamation laws and also because it is simply unfair to label an entire hospital based on experience with one out of hundreds of doctors there. Bad doctors can be found in all hospitals, and I know for a fact, from, first hand experience, that there are many excellent doctors at the hospital the OP initially went to.

A statement like "they are only interested in extracting the contents of your wallet not helping you" makes absolutely no sense because a hospital is not a "they", it is a building. Doctors in private hospitals are not employees of the hospital, they are independent professionals who have an arrangement with the hospital to use their facilities for out-patient consultations and to admit patients to it. Many -- indeed most -- have this arrangement at more than one hospital.

Whatever hospital one goes to, need to carefully choose the doctor. Many hospitals - including the one OP originally went to -- lists doctor qualifications on their website, making it easy to pre-select one with top qualifications. The kind of behavior described is not likely to be encountered among the top doctors, sounds more like a mediocre one trying to drum up business. The ones with top qualifications have no need to do anything like that.

All that said, it does indeed sound like the OP was taken for something of a ride -- by an individual doctor, not by a hospital. OP should however keep tabs on the narrowing of the coronary artery (though it has nothing to do, one way or the other, with the murmur). Annual stress tests (which cost about 2,000 baht only) are fine for that purpose. Should also attend to any risk factors you may have in terms of smoking, diet etc...in order not to end up genuinely needing a stent.

A moderator giving medical advice ?

Did it occur that the "moderator" may well possess the skills, knowledge , qualification(S) and experience required to offer advice.

If you or anyone else is "concerned" it is easy to PM Sheryl and ask!

BTW no one is ever bound to accept "advice" regardless of where that "advice" originates.

[poweratradio]

Wow. You all have scared the bah jeebers out of me and all I need to do is have my Pacemaker check don't every 6 months. The manufacturer has given a list of for profit hospitals in Thailand. Now I am thinking of flying back to N.America back check. Ticket cost verses buying a hospital a new wing.

[thepool]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Wow. You all have scared the bah jeebers out of me and all I need to do is have my Pacemaker check don't every 6 months. The manufacturer has given a list of for profit hospitals in Thailand. Now I am thinking of flying back to N.America back check. Ticket cost verses buying a hospital a new wing.

As you are looking to have something very specific undertaken you should approach the hospitals listed by the manufacturer of the device for a quote.

As you probably know the check being sought is a fairly easy procedure.

[JenniferSG]

I'm in the USA and have seen 5 cardiologist, and 2 electrophysiologists. Sometimes, as with any other service, it takes find a doc who can communicate exactly what is happening and what your options are, to feel well cared for. My 1st 3 docs were willing to say "you probably have anxiety" until I started passing out. Find a doc you trust and who will explain everything to you in a way you understand. That goes for most medical care. Hope you are ok and that you get some peace with your current doc!

[jippytum]

some years ago i purchased a reduced price ct scan voucher at a local international hospitial.Having no symptoms. I exercise and have a healthy lifestyle. i waited four months to have the scan.

The results showed a 90% blockage in an artery and the doctor recommender an angiagram operation and estimated at least three stents would be required.The scan is described in hospitail literature as being 99% accurate.

Bupa agreed to the cost up to 440,000 baht.I decided on a second opinion and after consultation

deciced to have the angiagram operation at Sriracha .The result showed insignificant problems and no treatment recommended.

I wonder if the original hospital had operated would the result have been the same or would i have had stents inserted to justify the inaccurate ct scan.

[soalbundy]

I'm based in Isaan,,near Surin. I only go to the private hospital in Surin (no bling stuff ) i have had only good experiences with, i think, good price/quality value. I think it is notable that it seems that 95% of patients seem to be normal Thai's from the way they are dressed ( no hi-so's )

I once had symptoms where i couldn't eat for 4 days,was dizzy, walked as if i was drunk and came out in red spots. I went to the local doctor who told me i was dizzy because i was old ( i was then a very fit 64 year old ) no tests nothing!! I went straight to the private hospital in Surin where after i had explained my symptoms my urine and blood were tested, i gave the lab report up and the doctor shook his head with "tut,tut,tut"

"You have dengue fever and you have left it a little too long,you are going into shock, immediate admission"

4 day's with private room, pills,drips and injections,blood tested every 3 hours day and night all for 27,000 Baht. It still took me a further 6 weeks before i was fully fit but i left the hospital after 4 days feeling fine and had my appetite back. My wife and my son have used this hospital several times, no complaints.

[Pii Kate]

Heart murmurs may indicate valve disease but not coronary disease. Cat scans cannot detect value or CAD. Please get a recommendation from someone you trust and go see someone else for a second opinion. Best of luck.