Raising Our Kids Thai Style Is Driving Me Insane

[bowerboy]

Dear All

I am English and 43 years old and my wife is Thai and 34 years old. I have lived and worked in Thailand and Asia for 10 plus years and have a good job. My wife worked at Krungsri bank head office and is from Roi Et but is what you would call a box standard non descript Thai girl (the kind you see in your office admin department for example). She is a lovely girl and a great mother and her family are good as gold and never ask for anything and no sin sot for marriage or anything like that (Mum and Dad are ex government workers, retired and get a government pension and whilst by no means rich are quite comfortable enough in Roi Et and don’t need anything from us financially).

We are married and have a son aged 2 and 1 more baby on the way. The wife stopped work and her Mum stays with us to help out my wife (she is good as gold and I don’t mind this because I am away a lot for work and feel more comfortable knowing she has her Mum here while I am away).

BUT our Son is being brought up very much Thai style. What I mean by that is that there is no structure to the day and no set feeding times and no set sleeping times. In my opinion she is very lazy with our Son and doesn’t do any daytime activities outside the house and relies a lot on the TV and Ipad. Some days I come home and she is on facebook on her phone and the kid is playing (happily it must be said) on the Ipad while Grandmum is sleeping. It seems like the easy way out and I think in her mind she is doing everything right..ie: feeding the kid and giving him a lot of love (he does get a lot of love and she is a great Mum). But I fear that perhaps in what could be a reflection of her upbringing that just being with the kid is enough, wheras from a western perspective (and in my opinion) she is doing the very bare basics. True parenting is what you do over and above the basics (play groups, swimming, sitting down together and reading books etc etc).

Some days he does not sleep until 10pm and then wakes up through the night. Today at 7pm he had not been fed since midday and was screaming and the wife could not work out why until I pointed out the painfully obvious fact that he was hungry (after being fed he calmed down). Today the extended family turns up at 9pm expecting to see him and play with him and get him all worked up no doubt (and of course I had no idea the 10 of them were coming until they show up right at the time we are trying to get the kid to sleep..and they plan to stay overnight it runs out).

In my opinion this is all starting to lead to some behavioural problems (throwing stuff out of his high chair, refusing to sleep at night, general grumpiness, being hyper and out of control). When I compare children from her part of the world to children from my part of the world the difference in temperament, maturity, independance and, dare I say it, apparent intelligence is mindblowing…the gap is enormous and obvious. Her 12 year old nephew is staying with us for 2 weeks (again arrives completely without my knowing, more utter chaos) and when I compare him with my own 12 year old nephew (from the UK) the difference is just staggering..truly scary and extremely revealing on many levels in terms of maturity and general outlook (and again dare I say intelligence)

Anyway this whole situation is driving me insane..is now the time to stamp my foot down, pack the mother off home and say from now its my way or the highway? Part of the problem is that I am away 1 or 2 times per month for 3 or 4 days at a time and of course I am at work all day long so whatever I suggest will almost certainly not be implemented and I have no way to know what happens during the day.

Some Thai women really seem to understand and embrace the whole “raise them the European way” and others (my wife included) just can’t seem to see the seemingly obvious benefits of doing so (time to yourself, more mature children, calmer, regular schedule that you can adjust your activities to, better career and life opportunities etc etc).

If you have a Thai wife and have Leu Kreung kids then how do you do it? Are you happy to go with the flow or do you put your foot down and do it the European way? Please do let me know your thoughts and advice as this situation is driving me insane right now.

PS: I am not stating either way is better than the other but based on what I have seen after 10 years here if you had to look at the overall evidence you would have to think that a child stands a better chance of success with a European style upbringing which is what I am basing the above on.

[Soutpeel]

Not trying to be funny but what exactly are you contributing to your children's up bringing ? Sounds to me like your leaving all this to the wife and relatives and not contributing anything

[bowerboy]

Not trying to be funny but what exactly are you contributing to your children's up bringing ? Sounds to me like your leaving all this to the wife and relatives and not contributing anything

Breadwinner. As in most families any where in the world I am working 8 to 6pm to get the money to feed my family, provide for the future and educate my children.

Yes of course I am leaving the bulk of it to the wife...by necessity....as is done almost everywhere in the world (not just Thailand).

[rgs2001uk]

I am at work all day long so whatever I suggest will almost certainly not be implemented and I have no way to know what happens during the day.

How about taking some time off to help out with the upbringing of your child, I feel sure the wife and MIL would welcome the break, that way you can have your own input.

If you dont like the situation do something about it, change your ways coz you sure as heck wont change theirs.

[Thai at Heart]

Not trying to be funny but what exactly are you contributing to your children's up bringing ? Sounds to me like your leaving all this to the wife and relatives and not contributing anything

Breadwinner. As in most families any where in the world I am working 8 to 6pm to get the money to feed my family, provide for the future and educate my children.

Yes of course I am leaving the bulk of it to the wife...by necessity....as is done almost everywhere in the world (not just Thailand).

It ain't going to be an easy change this one.

I had taken my wife 10 times to the west before our kids were born. I think getting your wife to change all of this is going to be largely impossible.

[Showbags]

Not sure really, we have 2 kids and do not have the issue you have and our kids are turning out fine...we/I did not intentionally try to raise them western or eastern, we just raised them with what seemed logical at the time...eat when hungry, sleep when tired etc....they developed their own routines and slipped into a normal life.

As for ipads and stuff....just have a word with her about establishing such bad habits at such a young age....ours did not get them until last year, aged 8 and 11.....so good grounding in normality I think/hope.

[h90]

Not trying to be funny but what exactly are you contributing to your children's up bringing ? Sounds to me like your leaving all this to the wife and relatives and not contributing anything

Breadwinner. As in most families any where in the world I am working 8 to 6pm to get the money to feed my family, provide for the future and educate my children.

Yes of course I am leaving the bulk of it to the wife...by necessity....as is done almost everywhere in the world (not just Thailand).

As it seems not a good plan....

[aussiebebe]

The three solutions I can think of are:
1) have more input - spend weekends with your son, do activities, write daily schedules, get involved.

2) ask the mother to take the son to childcare centers for structure - Bambi is very popular in Bangkok, they organize songs, games, play sessions, all very structured and controlled, just google them.
3) International schools cater for kids as young as 2 - send your son there for the activities and structure you think he's missing. He'll have set meal times, nap times, play times etc which you think he needs.

[apiwan]

Your away most the time and it's easy to criticise.

You got 1 kid and 1 on way.

I used to criticise my ex wife RE this and that.

Now I'm mother father and all.

It ain't easy mate.

I've done more in 2 years with my kids .

Than she did in 10.

There's no handbook when you have kids.

Just gotta do your best and instill in them the basics.

Don't go to war with the missus . You won't win on this one

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[bowerboy]

The three solutions I can think of are:

1) have more input - spend weekends with your son, do activities, write daily schedules, get involved.

2) ask the mother to take the son to childcare centers for structure - Bambi is very popular in Bangkok, they organize songs, games, play sessions, all very structured and controlled, just google them.

3) International schools cater for kids as young as 2 - send your son there for the activities and structure you think he's missing. He'll have set meal times, nap times, play times etc which you think he needs.

Thanks for this.

Options 2 and or 3 are EXACTLY what I am thinking. He just turned 2 yesterday and whilst i think this is too young I do feel it is far better than what is happening at home and what he needs is structure and routines in his day. He loves other kids and playing and so I am thinking this is the perfect solution.

Mother is not so keen on doing it so young (I see her point) but I will definietly put my foot down and insist. It seems the best solution when all things are considered.

Thanks again for the suggestion.

[irlguy1]

I am a working dad but I still make time for my kids. Yes I am the breadwinner but to have that ancient Neanderthal opinion that the wife takes care of the kids is your first and biggest mistake. My eldest(4yr old) has at least 30 minutes with me after work no matter how tired I am. We play or talk about what she did today and then we put her to bed and I read her a story. She loves the fairy tales and it gets her excited about going to bed. She gets a quota every day of iPhone games or tv and when that's done she gets Lego or other items that work her brain.

No way we would let her be a couch potatoe. My wife is a typical Thai that loves her tv and iPhone but she knows the kids come first. Our newborn will be brought up the same way.

It's not easy believe me there are tantrums at times when tv has to go off but that's the nature of being a family.

If your mother in law is making things difficult then tell your wife to step in. Good luck

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[FritsSikkink]

The fact that you are breadwinner doesn't mean you don't have to do any parenting. You are there the whole evening, take care of your kid and lead by example.

[susan d]

2 year old can go to preschool in Bangkok. Your son can play and learn a lot of things and have many friends there.

[farang000999]

All this thread is going to be is everyone telling you how great they are at parenting and how wonderful and perfect their children are and that their children are a perfect balance of East and West.

[seajae]

mate, I see it in my daughter every day and all the little kids close by, its far easier to let them do as they please than to try to teach them. I was a stay at home dad after my work injury, it isnt hard but requires you to put the child before yourself, this is what is hard here plus the facebook craze all thais seem to have no matter what their age, I agree though, you need to get him into a routine with meals, learning the meaning of no and bed time, if not he could grow upike all the other thai males we see and read about. This is something you really need to discuss with your wife and sort out. You need to make sure that she understands you and that you understand her, would definitely do something about her family though, you need to set limits/what you require from them when visiting, showing up with no warning and staying is a bit of as no no and you need to let them know this. Maybe if mum wasnt there your wife might take a more active role as well, definitely need to discuss all of this with her and explain why you want it this way.

[mickjn]

If I had 1000 baht and gave it to Lady Pla she would buy 3 or 4 ice creams for the kids that were around,she would by me a 100 baht shirt I do not want another shirt I have got more shirts than the shirt factory.She would buy something for Granma,she would buy some make up for her self she would have plenty left and she would be straight off to that shop and spend the rest on Baby Eye that just how they are let them go or the will do your head in

[StreetCowboy]

Not trying to be funny but what exactly are you contributing to your children's up bringing ? Sounds to me like your leaving all this to the wife and relatives and not contributing anything

Breadwinner. As in most families any where in the world I am working 8 to 6pm to get the money to feed my family, provide for the future and educate my children.

Yes of course I am leaving the bulk of it to the wife...by necessity....as is done almost everywhere in the world (not just Thailand).

Fair pojnt. As I understand, OP's wife packed her job in to raise the child while he goes off hunting antelope or drilling oil or whatever job he does, and when he comes back to camp, he expects the child to have been progressed somewhat. I am exactly the same.

It's not the same for most families in the world, though - many families have lifestyle aspirations that force the wife to work as well, and prevent her from devoting their full efforts to looking after the children - 'latchkey children' we call them in the UK, while in Thailand,many offspring are cared for by the grandparents while the parents work in Bangkok, or Dubai or somewhere

SC

[sdanielmcev]

What did you do before having the kids? Talk to the wife about how the both of you were going to raise the kids? Or sit there and read the box of raisin bran ingredients?

Must be your first kids. You'd better wise up before it blows up. You're taking the lazy way out in parenting. You put your job ahead of your family, because you know your job, but you don't know parenting.

You've had 43 years to prepare to become a parent and you did nothing. This isn't because she's Thai. Look at the white trash all over the world. You are blaming her? Why? Because the kid isn't in some super-structured environment? The kid is 2! Is your wife stupid? Because that was how she was raised.

[bowerboy]

Thanks for the thoughts guys...I am defnitely going to aim for the pre school starting in May...at the end of the day if we cant provide some semblance of structure then school is a good foundation block to start from.

As for the coming home from work and spending time with our Son it is that part that is driving me insane. I love spending time with him and the time we spend together on the weekend is really the only time he gets out of the house. But when I get home at 6;30 what I would like to happen is that I spend quality focused time with him and what I see as mormal back in the west (and what I would like) is something like this:

6:30 - Play time together.

7:15 bath and story time

8pm sleep

8pm to 10:30 relax with wife and unwind

What hapens due to lack of structure is that I get home and 6;30 and he is running around or feeding or playing or bathing or sleeping (yes he sometimes doesnt even wake up from afternoon nap until 6:30pm) it is anyones guess. Then it is basically chaos for the rest of the evening until 10pm at which point he may or may not sleep and because he is now so used to sleeping with us that he wont sleep unless we are in the bed with him! So basically due to lack of structure and poor parenting I have no time to relax and unwind (or my wife either). EVERYONE I know in the UK does it the right way so the kid has discipline and also so they have a routine and time for themselves.

I fear my wife (as is common here) just takes the easy way out without being able to think of the future and possible consequences. Give him the ipad now, or let him sleep for 4 hours, or chase him around with food to save 5 minutes of pain without any possible way of conceiving of the idea that the 5 minutes less pain causes 4 hours of pain later!!

Anyway, many thanks for the comments and he is starting school on 12th May...

[ppmacready]

My daughter is 10 and has been home schooled western style since she was 7.

My Thai girlfriend , not the mother of Jazz, has a boy.

I put a lot of time and effort into Jazz's development.

One day I was sitting at the table doing paper mache with Jazz.

That night my girl friend complained that I didn't love her son because I put so much effort into my daughter.

I don't love her son, but that's not the point.

Not wanting to cause an argument, I did not mention that instead of watching TV for endless hours, she could put the effort in too.

And that T.I.T attitude unfortunately is what your up against!

I thoroughly recommend home school, at least until they are 12.

To build a solid foundation.

[F4UCorsair]

Another of the problems associated with cross cultural marriages I guess, unforseen before you get into it.

Happens in other countries too though, largely because of laziness, not cross cultural issues.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Children need love, not structure.

Your wife and MIL are going a good job, from what I read.

Thailand is a great place for kids to grow up, much more freedom and less fear.

[Johnniey]

Change job to an English teacher spending considerably more time with your kids. 3 to 4 months holiday a year.

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[Neeranam]

You say in the first paragraph that your wife "is a lovely girl and a great mother".

Leave it to her. You mention that she worked in the Head Office, is this relevant to working in a branch? Whether she was a cleaner or an accountant is irrelevant to being a good mother. Intelligence, job, level of society etc don't make a good mother.

Communication is the main issue with my wife in bringing up our kids.

Fair, firm and consistent.

My wife wants to do things the way that she knows(how she was brought up) and I the same.

Some things I didn't like, like chilis in the mouth as a deterrent' or 'the knitting needle across the legs'. Similar to parents of my parents' age. We have the added benefit of child psycholgy in our countries so remember that Thailand is behind in this area.

Some things I did not allow to continue - "what you allow, you condone".

On the other hand, I'm a lazy, selfish **** and ideally would have spent more time with the kids.

A word of warning - don't talk to your kids about the Thai way as being inferior. This will instill a feeling of not being whole in your kids. I've seen a friend's kids turn out to have sever psychological issues. The father didn't allow Thai language in the home, talked about Thais being inferior etc. Your kids are half Thai and they should be proud of this.

Can you really see a big difference in 2 year old kids from your country an Thailand?

I bet your mother is filling your head with what is right.

Talk with your wife and work as a team. Forget International nursery and all that bs. I've seen kids go down that route and end up total wasters with drug, alcohol, and psycological problems.

Love is all you need and they will end up fine. If you push them to be a brain surgeon, they might just rebel.

[TexasRanger]

Whilst I agree with the structure of the western way of raising kids I have to admit all my thai nieces and nephews seem to have turned out very well. I don't agree with them being glued to the tv all the time and one thing I dont like to see anywhere is kids seeing their parents drunk. I never had to see mine like that. My kid is being brought up more in the western style and thankfully our pediatric unit also has behavioural development checkups 6 monthly. This was great for the wife to hear from a thai doctor how detrimental too much tv is in the early years.

[NoshowJones]

I am a working dad but I still make time for my kids. Yes I am the breadwinner but to have that ancient Neanderthal opinion that the wife takes care of the kids is your first and biggest mistake. My eldest(4yr old) has at least 30 minutes with me after work no matter how tired I am. We play or talk about what she did today and then we put her to bed and I read her a story. She loves the fairy tales and it gets her excited about going to bed. She gets a quota every day of iPhone games or tv and when that's done she gets Lego or other items that work her brain.

No way we would let her be a couch potatoe. My wife is a typical Thai that loves her tv and iPhone but she knows the kids come first. Our newborn will be brought up the same way.

It's not easy believe me there are tantrums at times when tv has to go off but that's the nature of being a family.

If your mother in law is making things difficult then tell your wife to step in. Good luck

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This is an excellent post, but it is highly unlikely that your wife will take your side over her mothers.

[chrisinth]

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The three solutions I can think of are:
1) have more input - spend weekends with your son, do activities, write daily schedules, get involved.

2) ask the mother to take the son to childcare centers for structure - Bambi is very popular in Bangkok, they organize songs, games, play sessions, all very structured and controlled, just google them.
3) International schools cater for kids as young as 2 - send your son there for the activities and structure you think he's missing. He'll have set meal times, nap times, play times etc which you think he needs.

Thanks for this.

Options 2 and or 3 are EXACTLY what I am thinking. He just turned 2 yesterday and whilst i think this is too young I do feel it is far better than what is happening at home and what he needs is structure and routines in his day. He loves other kids and playing and so I am thinking this is the perfect solution.

Mother is not so keen on doing it so young (I see her point) but I will definietly put my foot down and insist. It seems the best solution when all things are considered.

Thanks again for the suggestion.

I would side with your missus on this one. IMHO, it is the early years where the maternal/paternal bonds are made for life. If you start getting 'rid' of children at this age, using the excuse of giving them a structure, you are in essence fracturing this bond for life.

I know this is a controversial issue and many would disagree, but in my mind interaction comes later. It is very difficult to achieve I know with two working parents.

Sorry, I see from the OP that your wife worked and is not presently working at the bank admin.

[transam]

Perhaps you did not think of cultural differences when you married a Thai. You have her mum around so you really must expect everything to revolve around the way "they" do it.

Even if you were around all day they would still do it their way. I have the T-shirt at my place................. "Trans keep out of stuff".

[chrisinth]

Again OP, your wife is doing what the majority of new mothers coming from a stable family environment do as regards raising a family, relating to how they were raised themselves. If you want to change how this is being done then you have to distance the MIL from the daughter.

I would imagine how a child is raised in Roi Et is slightly different to how you see a child being raised. At present, with the MIL staying there your wife is relying on her mother's experiences.

However trust me on this, it need to be a delicate hand used and a very diplomatic action if you go down this road.................

[JLCrab]

The most well-adjusted total personality young girl I know in Thailand from the age of about 2 to 4 never had her own home and bounced around with her Mother staying with the Mother's friends sometimes 2 or 3 moves per week. What she learned is how to deal with people. The kid now thrives in school and even though she may or may not be smarter than all the other kids she can certainly out talk them in several languages.