Vatican declares Popes John Paul II and John XXIII saints

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Vatican declares Popes John Paul II and John XXIII saints

ROME: -- Pope Francis has declared Popes John Paul II and John XXIII saints, in front of a crowd of hundreds of thousands.

He praised his two predecessors as "men of courage" at the Vatican service, the first time in history that two popes have been canonised at the same time.

The Mass was attended by Pope Emeritus Benedict, who quit as pope last year, and roughly 100 foreign delegations.

Analysts say Francis is trying to balance the conservative legacy of John Paul with the reforming zeal of John.


At the climax of the service, Pope Francis said in Latin: "We declare and define Blessed John XXIII and John Paul II to be saints and we enrol them among the saints, decreeing that they are to be venerated as such by the whole Church."

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27172118


-- BBC 2014-04-28

[boomerangutang]

It's like Hollywood giving gold statuettes to movie stars, or businesses giving certificates and accolades to managers which sell the most widgets. If you're a giant multi-billion dollar enterprise, it's easy to have lavish commemoration ceremonies, with pomp and press releases.

The two Johns may have done some good in the world. Debatable. However, they both stood solidly against birth-control, thereby contributing to overpopulation and the spread of STD's. There are Catholics living on steaming giant trash heaps in the Philippines as we speak. The 2 Popes' message to them: Procreate and make more Catholics!

[klauskunkel]

It's nice to get a promotion, even when you are dead..., but shouldn't a promotion come from your boss?

[ABCer]

Well, John Paul II did deserve it 100% IMHO (I'm not a Catholic, not even a Christian).

But of-course Papa knows best.

As to 'procreation message' - the poster is slightly out of joint,

forgetting other instructions, like 'don't screw around' and the overall blanket rule about 'free will'.

Just trying to be fair.

[Norvid]

The biggest contribution of John Paul II was to support Solidarity and break 54 years of communism in Poland with all other countries to follow next.

[lee b]

I don't belive that any human is a saint / should be classed as a saint . No matter how religious or high up that ladder they are / were. There are very good ppl, also very bad, but no saints !!

[ABCer]

The biggest contribution of John Paul II was to support Solidarity and break 54 years of communism in Poland with all other countries to follow next.

Much, much more.

He was the first non-Italian Pope in 400 years!

He was the first Pope openly speaking out against Commies.

He was the first Pope travelling the Earth extensively.

He was the first Pope taking a bullet for his openness.

He actually was the first Pope with the guts to apologize to the Jews

which was doubly courageous by being a Papa and a Pole.

[DoctorG]

sainthoods, knighthoods, Oscars, etc - same, same.

[ThaiTerry]

I don't belive that any human is a saint / should be classed as a saint . No matter how religious or high up that ladder they are / were. There are very good ppl, also very bad, but no saints !!

Well then I guess we should remove the word saint from the dictionary, as the word saint describes a human that has become a saint from the way they lived.

[cooked]

...and excluding the present pope they all ignored, denied, thereby passively encouraged, child abuse. They never got over the fact that the laws of the lands apply to clerics also.

[FritsSikkink]

The biggest contribution of John Paul II was to support Solidarity and break 54 years of communism in Poland with all other countries to follow next.

Much, much more.

He was the first non-Italian Pope in 400 years!

He was the first Pope openly speaking out against Commies.

He was the first Pope travelling the Earth extensively.

He was the first Pope taking a bullet for his openness.

He actually was the first Pope with the guts to apologize to the Jews

which was doubly courageous by being a Papa and a Pole.

Did nothing about the child abuse in the churches.

[boomerangutang]

I don't belive that any human is a saint / should be classed as a saint . No matter how religious or high up that ladder they are / were. There are very good ppl, also very bad, but no saints !!

If not humans, than what - goats?

[Damai]

The Catholic Church; don't get me started. Grrr.

[tartempion]

Jeeez.

Humans are the worst living organisms in the universe and some are saints????

[Wombat6]

Jeeez.

Humans are the worst living organisms in the universe and some are saints????

And i don't think that these two guys give a stuff if they were made Saints by the Church.

[Ridler]

Well, John Paul II did deserve it 100% IMHO (I'm not a Catholic, not even a Christian).

But of-course Papa knows best.

As to 'procreation message' - the poster is slightly out of joint,

forgetting other instructions, like 'don't screw around' and the overall blanket rule about 'free will'.

Just trying to be fair.

John Paul II deserves it? For what?

Preventing millions of people dying from AIDS? Which he could have done if he allowed condom use.

Protecting children from child abuse? I don't think so!

Sitting in a palace, surrounded by sycophants with no clue what is really going on in the world and thinking he is god's representative on earth? Give me a break.

[Frank James]

Would have been more spectacular if they had made it a three way, with Pope Alexander VI (the Borgia Pope) thrown in for grins.

[MobileContent]

saint my ass really.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted as well as a post and replies which violate fair use policy. You may only quote the first 3 sentences of an article and then a link to the remainder.

[spidermike007]

I have always considered John Paul II to be a saint. I may not have agreed with some of his policies, but he certainly had his heart in the right place, and was a great man. He was a pope of the people, similar to Francis. The Church was blessed to have him as pope. He benefitted millions, and had some great policies, and initiatives. He was kind, generous, charming, and rallied millions behind the church. I am not a religious person, but always appreciated his character. I consider him to be the greatest pope in my lifetime. As far as John XXII goes, well that is entirely another story. I would argue that several other popes are far more deserving of beautification. He was very controversial, and not always for the right reasons. But, I do not know enough about him. John Paul II on the other hand was a beautiful soul.

[ABCer]

No man/woman is a Saint, an Angel or a Spirit.

Catholics have a funny attitude to this question endorsed by their Church. It is their business.

John Paul II was a better man among many, including Popes.

That alone is enough for me.

As to those complaining about AIDS, unwanted pregnancies, etc. - go screw yourself - the safest way to avoid surprises.

Any Religion has apart from Faith issues some Moral standards. Use them or not but do not blame the others for consequences.

[Robby nz]

Thought they already had a saint John and saint Paul ?

Don't know whose right and whose wrong in all the religious stuff, if any, but if its Islam than being a saint should elevate them to a special place in hell.

[boomerangutang]

I have always considered John Paul II to be a saint. I may not have agreed with some of his policies, but he certainly had his heart in the right place, and was a great man. He was a pope of the people, similar to Francis. The Church was blessed to have him as pope. He benefitted millions, and had some great policies, and initiatives. He was kind, generous, charming, and rallied millions behind the church. I am not a religious person, but always appreciated his character. I consider him to be the greatest pope in my lifetime. As far as John XXII goes, well that is entirely another story. I would argue that several other popes are far more deserving of beautification. He was very controversial, and not always for the right reasons. But, I do not know enough about him. John Paul II on the other hand was a beautiful soul.

Nice guy, yea. Did some good in the world. Yes. You see the glass as half full, I see it as half empty.

I can't dismiss how he (actually both beatified Popes) felt obliged to stick with tired and harmful Catholic policy. Namely: banning birth control, including condom use, among his flock. Perhaps he and his Catholic yes-man couldn't see the harm that causes to millions, but I can see it. Therefore, I have better perceptive abilities than either of the two candidates for saint.

Then there's turning away from acknowledging paedophiles are rife among Catholic leaders. He was able to sweep that problem under the rug quite effectively, but it didn't disappear. What did he do about it, tangibly? Nothing.

[boomerangutang]

Any Religion has apart from Faith issues some Moral standards. Use them or not but do not blame the others for consequences.

I can see the bigger picture than you or the Popes.

I am not a member of any religion, but if some groups of people make the world a worse place, than it affects me and others. If I care about the planet and its species, it becomes my business.

Any group of people who procreate willy nilly, are making a mess. Each new child brings tens of tons of trash in his/her wake. Overpopulation of our one species spells extinction for many other species. If a person only wants to focus on people issues (as if people are the only species that matter), then that's applicable also: No condom use spreads STD's, which directly and indirectly adversely affects tens of millions of people.

In Biblical times, it made practical sense to encourage women to pop out as many babies as physically possible. Nowadays, it's selfish, callous and harmful to do so.

[GentlemanJim]

I have always considered John Paul II to be a saint. I may not have agreed with some of his policies, but he certainly had his heart in the right place, and was a great man. He was a pope of the people, similar to Francis. The Church was blessed to have him as pope. He benefitted millions, and had some great policies, and initiatives. He was kind, generous, charming, and rallied millions behind the church. I am not a religious person, but always appreciated his character. I consider him to be the greatest pope in my lifetime. As far as John XXII goes, well that is entirely another story. I would argue that several other popes are far more deserving of beautification. He was very controversial, and not always for the right reasons. But, I do not know enough about him. John Paul II on the other hand was a beautiful soul.

Come on! A Saint ! His heart was in the right place - slightly left of central chest. Any man that denies people the right to wear condoms in a bid to try and slow down the epidemic spread of HIV throughout Africa thereby condemning millions to suffer or to be born with HIV is not on the top 10 list of "I'm a Saint get me beatified" (note spelling). In fact it could be argued that these recent Popes have been responsible for more deaths than any Borgia or even during the Spanish Inquisition. Kind , generous and charming, but still did not have the courage to tell people they could wear a condom. Patron Saint of Disgraceful Stupidity.

[MB1]

I have always considered John Paul II to be a saint. I may not have agreed with some of his policies, but he certainly had his heart in the right place, and was a great man. He was a pope of the people, similar to Francis. The Church was blessed to have him as pope. He benefitted millions, and had some great policies, and initiatives. He was kind, generous, charming, and rallied millions behind the church. I am not a religious person, but always appreciated his character. I consider him to be the greatest pope in my lifetime. As far as John XXII goes, well that is entirely another story. I would argue that several other popes are far more deserving of beautification. He was very controversial, and not always for the right reasons. But, I do not know enough about him. John Paul II on the other hand was a beautiful soul.

Come on! A Saint ! His heart was in the right place - slightly left of central chest. Any man that denies people the right to wear condoms in a bid to try and slow down the epidemic spread of HIV throughout Africa thereby condemning millions to suffer or to be born with HIV is not on the top 10 list of "I'm a Saint get me beatified" (note spelling). In fact it could be argued that these recent Popes have been responsible for more deaths than any Borgia or even during the Spanish Inquisition. Kind , generous and charming, but still did not have the courage to tell people they could wear a condom. Patron Saint of Disgraceful Stupidity.

Just say it how it is Gentelman Jim,......Don't hold back just say that religion/belief is responsible for more deaths and wars/terrorism in the world than anything else.....

[cooked]

He went to Africa and told them "have the courage to make children". Meaning make more Catholics. A bit cynical on my part but that's the way the bottom line works out.

[boomerangutang]

Q. Why is the Vatican recognized in the UN, and not Tibet?

A. Power politics

Both are seats of great religious organizations. Both have defensive forces, their own postage stamps, intricate traditions/customs going back 2,000 years (for Vatican) and 5,000 years (Tibet).

Both have their respective religious head men.

Neither has oil reserves, though Tibet has a wealth of precious metals and minerals.

Differences: Tibet is 100,000 X larger, and has its own language.

But main difference: Tibet was militarily taken over (in the 1950's) by a more powerful country.

So I ask again: Why is the Vatican recognized, and not Tibet?

[GentlemanJim]

I have always considered John Paul II to be a saint. I may not have agreed with some of his policies, but he certainly had his heart in the right place, and was a great man. He was a pope of the people, similar to Francis. The Church was blessed to have him as pope. He benefitted millions, and had some great policies, and initiatives. He was kind, generous, charming, and rallied millions behind the church. I am not a religious person, but always appreciated his character. I consider him to be the greatest pope in my lifetime. As far as John XXII goes, well that is entirely another story. I would argue that several other popes are far more deserving of beautification. He was very controversial, and not always for the right reasons. But, I do not know enough about him. John Paul II on the other hand was a beautiful soul.

Come on! A Saint ! His heart was in the right place - slightly left of central chest. Any man that denies people the right to wear condoms in a bid to try and slow down the epidemic spread of HIV throughout Africa thereby condemning millions to suffer or to be born with HIV is not on the top 10 list of "I'm a Saint get me beatified" (note spelling). In fact it could be argued that these recent Popes have been responsible for more deaths than any Borgia or even during the Spanish Inquisition. Kind , generous and charming, but still did not have the courage to tell people they could wear a condom. Patron Saint of Disgraceful Stupidity.

Just say it how it is Gentelman Jim,......Don't hold back just say that religion/belief is responsible for more deaths and wars/terrorism in the world than anything else.....

Religion/belief is responsible for more deaths and wars/terrorism in the world than anything else.....

[tomyummer]

Anyone searching 'Pope John hell' on Youtube will see some shocking stuff. Whether he deserves to be a saint will be questioned for ages given his 'do nothing' stance on child molestation in the church.

Have to wonder what the real reason Benedict decided to leave his post. Anyone?

Edited May 1, 2014 by tomyummer