Assault: Phra Buddha Issara 'will have PDRC guards surrender'

[webfact]

ASSAULT
Monk 'will have guards surrender'
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Police say Phra Buddha Issara, leader of the People's Democratic Reform Committee at the Chaeng Wattana Road rally site, has told them he will ask for five PDRC guards who allegedly attacked a military intelligence officer last week to turn themselves in.

Thung Song Hong police chief Colonel Atip Pongsivapai said police told the senior monk that they would charge 10 guards with attempted murder.

Last Thursday night, Colonel Wittawat Wattanakul was sent to Mongkutwattana Hospital after being shot and assaulted near the anti-government group's Chaeng Wattana rally site while driving home.

A PDRC chief guard visited him in hospital on Friday and yesterday and apologised, saying the guards shot him in the foot because they feared he was part of a group that wanted to attack protesters.

Police set a bail guarantee of Bt450,000 for each guard.

Phra Buddha Issara said he would use the title deed of Wat Onoi, where he is the abbot, as surety when seeking bail for the guards.

The monk said someone was trying to inflame the situation between PDRC guards and the military because two bullets were fired at the Royal Thai Armed Forces headquarters on Friday night.

-- The Nation 2014-04-29

[Payboy]

Phra Buddha Issara said he would use the title deed of Wat Onoi, where he is the abbot, as surety when seeking bail for the guards.

Temple land deed will be used to bail out criminals?

[Mango Bob]

And when will the monk surrender to face charges against him.

[Suriya4]

Temple land cannot be sold or transfer, hence have no dollar value. Besides, the shooting was a fake, a make up report by the red newspaper kaosod.

[binjalin]

Temple land cannot be sold or transfer, hence have no dollar value. Besides, the shooting was a fake, a make up report by the red newspaper kaosod.

ahh he shot himself in the foot on that one then

oh hang on... even the fake monk is not saying "it did not happen"

[gabruce]

Why charge 10 guards when only one shot? Or is it that the police have no evidence about anything, so they are charging all the guards that were awake at the time? Or do they have evidence that they all were shooting?

[rreddin]

Temple land cannot be sold or transfer, hence have no dollar value. Besides, the shooting was a fake, a make up report by the red newspaper kaosod.

Now you will have to say: "A PDRC chief guard visited him in hospital on Friday and yesterday and apologised, saying the guards shot him in the foot because they feared he was part of a group that wanted to attack protesters." is also a fake made up by a yellow newspaper. Are you real?

[Tatsujin]

Phra Buddha Issara said he would use the title deed of Wat Onoi, where he is the abbot, as surety when seeking bail for the guards.

Temple land deed will be used to bail out criminals?

Not criminals, innocent until PROVEN guilty is the correct way, no?

[Mango Bob]

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Phra Buddha Issara said he would use the title deed of Wat Onoi, where he is the abbot, as surety when seeking bail for the guards.

Temple land deed will be used to bail out criminals?

Not criminals, innocent until PROVEN guilty is the correct way, no?

Wonder if you would say the same thing if it was a Red Shirt?

[geriatrickid]

Why charge 10 guards when only one shot? Or is it that the police have no evidence about anything, so they are charging all the guards that were awake at the time? Or do they have evidence that they all were shooting?

One not need be the trigger man to be guilty in an attempted murder. Those who aid and abet or otherwise facilitate an attempted murder are no less guilty of the attempted murder. Thai law allows a judge to punish them less severely depending upon involvement. If you step back and look at this from a pragmatic standpoint, if all the possible suspects were not charged with the crime, it would make prosecution difficult. I expect the intent is to scare the guards so that someone snitches. As several of the guards have already "apologized", I believe it should make the case a little easier.

It will be interesting to see what happens. The injured officer seems to have the support of the mid ranks and with his older brother a senior police official, I don't think it unreasonable to see the justice system move a little faster here. The command officers can't afford not to appease the demand for action from the group who are expected to carry out their orders.

[geriatrickid]

Not criminals, innocent until PROVEN guilty is the correct way, no?

As one does not know the background of these people, one cannot say whether or not they are criminals. However, the presumption of innocence must be respected until proven otherwise.

[Tatsujin]

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Phra Buddha Issara said he would use the title deed of Wat Onoi, where he is the abbot, as surety when seeking bail for the guards.

Temple land deed will be used to bail out criminals?

Not criminals, innocent until PROVEN guilty is the correct way, no?

Wonder if you would say the same thing if it was a Red Shirt?

I'll answer that when some red shirts are actually caught or arrested for something and not let out on bail lol

But yes, all "should" be innocent until proven guilty, although I know in the real world it doesn't work that way.

[binjalin]

I'll answer that when some red shirts are actually caught or arrested for something and not let out on bail lol

But yes, all "should" be innocent until proven guilty, although I know in the real world it doesn't work that way.

the point is that the fake monk is using TEMPLE deeds to bail out these people - innocent little darlings or not

[rabas]

Temple land cannot be sold or transfer, hence have no dollar value. Besides, the shooting was a fake, a make up report by the red newspaper kaosod.

ahh he shot himself in the foot on that one then

oh hang on... even the fake monk is not saying "it did not happen"

It's possible. The protesters have been shooting themselves with hundreds of grenades and thousands of bullets for several months. Proven technology^[1]. Do you know how hard it is to shoot yourself with an M79 grenade launcher?

1. "technology" refers to lies and falsehoods used to avoid discussion of facts that proves one's position is wrong and untenable.

[srsv1238]

Why charge 10 guards when only one shot? Or is it that the police have no evidence about anything, so they are charging all the guards that were awake at the time? Or do they have evidence that they all were shooting?

They were all giving the beating so they should be charged

Sent from my SM-N900T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[fabianfred]

Monks do not own the temples... Not even the abbots. They are the property of the community which built them..

[Docno]

Why charge 10 guards when only one shot? Or is it that the police have no evidence about anything, so they are charging all the guards that were awake at the time? Or do they have evidence that they all were shooting?

We don't know 'only one shot'. We only know that just one shot struck the victim. Perhaps they were all lousy shots....

[BlueNoseCodger]

Why charge 10 guards when only one shot? Or is it that the police have no evidence about anything, so they are charging all the guards that were awake at the time? Or do they have evidence that they all were shooting?

A group shooting beating and torture, surely requires a group prosecution? Interesting you focus just on the shooting.

His name is Colonel Witthawat Wattanakul by the way, and reports of his injuires were from Mongkutwattana General Hospital, (run by 'garbage group', Les Majeste doctor). It was sort of telling that the guards, once they'd found his army id card, took him to that hospital.

They should also do forensics on them for the 2 murders, 1 attempted murder of people shot, tied up, dressed in PDRC whistles and badges and thrown in the river. Since this attack fits the same bill as the other murders.

Also for the murder of Jirayuth Senanarong at the Lumpini protest site, and the shooting of two soldiers as they went home.

[Thailand]

Temple land cannot be sold or transfer, hence have no dollar value. Besides, the shooting was a fake, a make up report by the red newspaper kaosod.

Seriously?

[Halion]

Do not see how shooting someone in the foot constitutes "attempted murder" unless they felt that the victims brains were in their feet

[h90]

Phra Buddha Issara said he would use the title deed of Wat Onoi, where he is the abbot, as surety when seeking bail for the guards.

Temple land deed will be used to bail out criminals?

no he bails the guards not the police

[WoopyDoo]

Why charge 10 guards when only one shot? Or is it that the police have no evidence about anything, so they are charging all the guards that were awake at the time? Or do they have evidence that they all were shooting?

One not need be the trigger man to be guilty in an attempted murder. Those who aid and abet or otherwise facilitate an attempted murder are no less guilty of the attempted murder. Thai law allows a judge to punish them less severely depending upon involvement. If you step back and look at this from a pragmatic standpoint, if all the possible suspects were not charged with the crime, it would make prosecution difficult. I expect the intent is to scare the guards so that someone snitches. As several of the guards have already "apologized", I believe it should make the case a little easier.

It will be interesting to see what happens. The injured officer seems to have the support of the mid ranks and with his older brother a senior police official, I don't think it unreasonable to see the justice system move a little faster here. The command officers can't afford not to appease the demand for action from the group who are expected to carry out their orders.

The charge is to be attempted murder.... If there were ten of them and they were carrying firearms and actually had a physical hold of him, then this guy would have been dead.

That PROVES there was NO attempt to murder him, just a bitch slapping and a shot in the toe... If anything it is just assault and that carries an average 1000 baht fine.

Also, who are the police to impose bail prices?.... That is the matter for the courts. B450,000 for a simple assault and gunshot to the toe..... double standards again from the PTP militia.

[newcomer71]

Leaving apart the whole "incident".

I would like to ask to many apologists here: if you were the Colonel and you were attacked by a group of individuals, and been shoot at, hit at your foot and being beaten heavily.

How you would like them to be charged? And with which kind of accusation?

Edited April 29, 2014 by newcomer71

[fab4]

Why charge 10 guards when only one shot? Or is it that the police have no evidence about anything, so they are charging all the guards that were awake at the time? Or do they have evidence that they all were shooting?

Good to see you backing up the PDRC guards,gabruce, no matter what they do, eh? Still in denial.

Why is it so difficult to believe ten guards beating up one guy?, just how long have you been in Thailand?

[fab4]

The charge is to be attempted murder.... If there were ten of them and they were carrying firearms and actually had a physical hold of him, then this guy would have been dead.

That PROVES there was NO attempt to murder him, just a bitch slapping and a shot in the toe... If anything it is just assault and that carries an average 1000 baht fine.

Also, who are the police to impose bail prices?.... That is the matter for the courts. B450,000 for a simple assault and gunshot to the toe..... double standards again from the PTP militia.

If there were ten of them and they were carrying firearms and actually had a physical hold of him, then this guy would have been dead.

Perhaps even thug PDRC guards have a modicum of common sense , unlike the poster.

Edited April 29, 2014 by fab4

[pisico]

Temple land cannot be sold or transfer, hence have no dollar value. Besides, the shooting was a fake, a make up report by the red newspaper kaosod.

Show evidence that it was a fake.

[harada]

Yeah, I suppose guards does sound a bit more politically correct than hired gunmen.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Phra Buddha Issara said he would use the title deed of Wat Onoi, where he is the abbot, as surety when seeking bail for the guards.

Temple land deed will be used to bail out criminals?

They are only suspects or defendents. They become criminals if and when convicted.

But I am surprised the Wat title can be used legitimately for a bail bond from a legal viewpoint. The purpose of collateral for bail is that the collateral can be confiscated in the event the defendent breaks bail. When a wat is the collateral there are two possible issues.

1) Value of the temple. Value is usually determined by the marketplace with arm's-length sales of similar properties between unrelated parties having no common economic relationship. There may be few comparable sales to establish value with any certainty that would substantially lower the value of the collateral.

2) Transferrability. If ownership of this wat is limited, ie., can only transfer to an abbot, its value will be limited. If title cannot be transferred except back to a central buddhist organization or the HRM King, a wat has no value as collateral.

3) Tax exempt property. If the wat is tax exempt property, but transferrable, payment of back taxes may be required in the transfer and reduce the overall value of the property.

4) Use of property. if the wat is tax exempt and/or deemed heritage property, adaptability to another use may be restricted and limit its value.

[geriatrickid]

Why charge 10 guards when only one shot? Or is it that the police have no evidence about anything, so they are charging all the guards that were awake at the time? Or do they have evidence that they all were shooting?

One not need be the trigger man to be guilty in an attempted murder. Those who aid and abet or otherwise facilitate an attempted murder are no less guilty of the attempted murder. Thai law allows a judge to punish them less severely depending upon involvement. If you step back and look at this from a pragmatic standpoint, if all the possible suspects were not charged with the crime, it would make prosecution difficult. I expect the intent is to scare the guards so that someone snitches. As several of the guards have already "apologized", I believe it should make the case a little easier.

It will be interesting to see what happens. The injured officer seems to have the support of the mid ranks and with his older brother a senior police official, I don't think it unreasonable to see the justice system move a little faster here. The command officers can't afford not to appease the demand for action from the group who are expected to carry out their orders.

The charge is to be attempted murder.... If there were ten of them and they were carrying firearms and actually had a physical hold of him, then this guy would have been dead.

That PROVES there was NO attempt to murder him, just a bitch slapping and a shot in the toe... If anything it is just assault and that carries an average 1000 baht fine.

Also, who are the police to impose bail prices?.... That is the matter for the courts. B450,000 for a simple assault and gunshot to the toe..... double standards again from the PTP militia.

You are obviously ignorant of Thailand's penal code

The law does not require the accused to be carrying firearms. You are dismissing the assault causing harm as "bitch slapping and a shot in the toe".

Fortunately, Thailand's penal code says differently. Go and read the penal code, specifically Section 6 of article 289 says that those who were involved in the assault can be charged, even if they did not pull the trigger: The other person for the purpose of preparing or facilitating the commission of the other offence.

You have no idea as to the extent of the injuries, nor do you how much pain the victim is in. That aspect of the attack is also taken into account in regard to charges under the penal code.

The failed attempt at murder does not prove anything except that they failed. In any case, it will be up to a judge to decide.

In respect to the failed murder attempt, the penal code states that when there isn't death Section 296 applies.;

Section 296 Whoever, committing bodily harm, if such offence having any circumstance as prescribed by Section 289, shall be imprisoned not out of three years or fined not out of six thousand Baht, or both.

In case you missed it, the victim was a military officer. The pressing of charges and the bail were not effected, by a PTP militia. The court set the bail. Both the army and the police are duly recognized in law and are legally authorized to undertake their activities. The only militia, involved, and an illegal one at that, is the PDRC "guards". They do not have the legal right to carry arms and to act in the manner that they are doing. They have NO legal authority.

Again, you are clueless as to Thai law and the bail process. 450,000 baht is a rather low amount. Sakhontee Phattiyagul is out on bail of 600,000 baht and is not accused of physical assault, nor murder. If I am not mistaken, Abhisit's bail for his murder charge(s) is about 1,600,000 baht (I offer the bail amount as a recent example, nothing more.) Abhisit presents zero risk of not showing up for trial, and is very unlikely to engage in illegal activity while on bail, so his bail reflects that. The PDRC thugs bail amount reflects the crime they are accused of and their ability to post bail. Judges do take into account an accused's ability to post bail when they set the amount.

[rickirs]

Phra Buddha Issara will ask for five PDRC guards who allegedly attacked a military intelligence officer last week to turn themselves in. Colonel Pongsivapai will charge 10 guards with attempted murder.

For an organization that promotes itself as respectful of law and order, it is disconcerting that PDRC's guards will not accept their own arrests. Five were asked by Issara; guess Issara is giving a free pass to the other five accused guards. But you really can't blame the PDRC for its disrespect for the law when its leader Suthep refuses the arrest warrants against him for premeditated murder.