Moving to Thailand

[MargaridaGuerra]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to thank everyone and anyone that reads this in advance. I really appreciate all the help I can get. My boyfriend and I are both Portuguese. We are a young couple that enjoy traveling and currently living in the Netherlands but life here is expensive and the weather isn't something we like very much. I always wanted to go to Australia, but the land of Oz is quite expensive.

It began as a joke, the idea of moving to a paradise like island, but the more either one of us thought about it, the more sense it made. My boyfriend works online as a graphic designer and makes a steady income from basically anywhere with good wifi. I on the other hand, aren't as crafty and would most likely have to get something online, which is doable for me, or get a job in Thailand. We want to move there by November but we don't really know what the best option for us is. What type of visa's we'll need or what sort of legal action we'll have to take in order to stay their legally for an indefinite amount of time.

Opening up a bank account is essential to us and we'd like to be able to stay there for at least a years time without having to go on border runs every three months to renew a visa. It sounds costly and time consuming.

Long story short, what do you think are the best option for us? How much will it cost us and how long do getting these papers sorted out usually take? I've done some research but I'm a bit confused. Some laws have changed recently and I don't know what applies to what. Also, if I did have to leave Thailand every three months to renew my visa, would I have to go back to my home country or could I just go to the neighboring countries instead?

P.S. We are a young couple in our early twenties so the retirement visa won't work for us. Marriage is also not an option.

Thanks again for all your help,

Margarida G.

[wayned]

Your best, and most likely, only option in the beginning is a triple entry toruist visa. It would give you almost 270 days with two border runs and three extensions. The other option is and ED visa, but you would have to enroll and pay for the one year course in full before the visa would be issued, about 25000 baht each. No border runs would be reqiired but you would have to attend class and update your permission to stay at immigration every 90 days, cost 1900 baht.

Working here is illegal without a work permit but many do it on line. You might be able to find a English teaching job but it woould depend on your English skills and education. A member of the "work permit brigade" will be along shortly to update you on the requirements, someone most likely doing exactly what they tell you that you can't do and are working illegally themselves!

If you are thinking of an "island paradise" such as Samui, not cheap!

[moe666]

the Thai government is in the process of clamping down on the ed. visa as it has been abused by people who come to live here and work illegally. Unless you get a real job in Thailand they do not make it easy for one such as yourself to stay long term although it can be done and many do it. Cambodia maybe a better option as you can get a one year business visa for around 250dollars.

[MargaridaGuerra]

Hi Wayned,

Thank you for your quick response. I'm actually curious about the ED Visa, since we are both very interested in learning Thai culture and language. I'm worried about how long it may take to enroll. Would I have to pay the 19000 baht every 90 days? It seems like a more costly choice.

Regarding the triple entry tourist visa, how do the border runs work? Can we go to just a neighboring country or must we go back home and then return? Also, how long must we stay out of the country each time? And have there ever been any issues where reentry was not permitted?

The extensions can be done in Thailand? How do they work exactly?

Is working online considered to be illegal there? I don't really know how that works with paying of government tax.

I studied fine arts in the U.S. for eleven years so I speak native English, Spanish and off course Portuguese but I don't have a college degree. I also don't have any idea of how expensive or painful work permits are to attain. If I were to teach english, wouldn't I need to know Thai as well? I was hoping if I were to get a work permit that perhaps I'd be able to get something along the lines of working at a resort, where I some experience but again, that might not be as easy as it sounds.

Last but not least, we are thinking more between Hua Hin and Phuket. Though our mind sets are pretty set on Phuket. We've done as much research as we can through our resources and it sounds quite frankly to be a cheap place to live in comparison to the places we've been in the past. Do you have any advice? I'm sure you know more about Phuket than I do and I appreciate all of the brain food I can get on the matter.

Sorry for all of the questions. I've never been to Thailand and well, there is no such thing as never being too prepared.

Once again, thank you.

Margarida G.

[wayned]

With a triple enttry tourist visa, you will get 60 days permission to stay on entry, towards then end of the 60 days you can extend for 30 days at immigation, cost 1900 baht. At the end of the 30 days you must exit Thailand. You can cross the border and turn around and come back in. You will have to purchase a visa at the border to enter the neighboring country, the orice varies, Cambodia, $20, Myanmar, 500 baht, Malaysia, free, Loas, $35 but depends on nationality. If you get the visa just before your departure and use it correctly you can get almost 270 days.

ED visas must be applied for abroad. You can enroll in a course and they will send you the paperwork to apply for the visa at your embassy. Once here you will get 90 days permission to stay and have to extend it every 90 days at immigration withthe proper paperwork from the school, cost 1900 baht. There is a TV sponser that offers courses, Walen, just send them an email.

As far as teaching witout a degree, IMHO, it will most likey be a hit and miss situation. There are many agencies that palc teachers in schools in remote locations but most likely in the "boonies".

I lived and had a business in Samui years ago and moved north in 2004 due to the increasing cost, I can imagine what it costs today. I am now retired an live in the counrtry pretending to be a jack of all trades. But since I am pretending, I don't have a WP!

Good luck!,

[PattayaPhom]

If you do ED visas, factor in almost 200 Euros a month, this is the cost of initial visa, extensions, school fees etc....not so cheap living here when that needs paying.

[Will2011]

Just to let you know that the Portuguese Embassy/Consulate in Bangkok is useless. They are not helpful and quite rude. If unfortunately, you require to use their services, I strongly recommend you to make an appointment one week before, as if you walk-in without booking, you will be receive like an animal. And it's not even about work overload, as the times I went, there was nobody.

As for your question, it is technically illegal to work online in Thailand without a work permit.

[bangkapi]

Why don't you try Brasil?

[JouniF]

Is working online considered to be illegal there? I don't really know how that works with paying of government tax.

Yes and no. If you work within the borders of Thailand, you need a work permit, period. This includes working online, foreign (i.e. outside of Thailand) employer and even working without pay (e.g. giving out free joga classes - you are doing a job of a teacher, even if you are not paid for it). However, many people do work online without any work permit they seem to be just fine. Whether you wish to take the risk of working illegally, is up to you, I wouldn't personally recommend it.

I also don't have any idea of how expensive or painful work permits are to attain. If I were to teach english, wouldn't I need to know Thai as well? I was hoping if I were to get a work permit that perhaps I'd be able to get something along the lines of working at a resort, where I some experience but again, that might not be as easy as it sounds.

To get a work permit, you will need to have an employer in Thailand that is willing to sponsor the business visa and work permit for you. There are quite a few requirements for an employer (i.e. the company that hires you) to do this, there are exemptions to these requirements and there are many fields of work that are simply prohibited from non-Thais.

A rule of a thumb is: if you are an expert of your field, OR you are e.g. a wealthy business operator, you have a shot of getting the WP and business visa. If you are not, you can still get them, but it can take a lot of time, effort and sacrifices.

Sorry for all of the questions. I've never been to Thailand and well, there is no such thing as never being too prepared.

If you have never been to Thailand, you should just get a tourist visa and come here to see how it is. After you have been here for a month or two, you'll probably understand what I mean.

If you ever come to the North (Chiang Mai), drop me a line and I can buy you guys cups of tea and we can talk about how it is to move to Thailand.

[IMA_FARANG]

You have two things to consider.

One is that Thailand is not like a EU country where a national of one country can go to another country and do his or her job "on-line". Technically, you can not work in Thailand "on-line" without a Work Permit, and that is very difficult to get for a self-employed person.

Now I know it is possible to work on-line from Thailand, and it is often done. But it is in fact illegal to work that way without a Work Permit. Therefore what you will be doing is illegal, and could land you into big problems. Just be warned about that, and keep any such activity very quiet.

In Thailand any activity such as that is considered as work whether you get paid for it in country or not. Being discovered in Thailand "working" on-line may mean you will be hit with a tax liability for money you earned on-line from work performed outside of Thailand. It doesn't happen often, but without that Work Permit it is possible. So be careful there.

Secondly, many visa requirements for couples in Thailand specifically state that any marriage must be "De Jure" or by law.

There are some breaks for a woman in the visa financial requirements needed to stay long term in Thailand ..... but those financial breaks will only apply to married couples.

So basically, if you are a non-married couple, both you are your partner are subject to the same financial requirements for a long term stay visa.

If you were a legally married couple, the female might get a break on her financial requirements for a long term visa, but that won't apply to a non married couple. For them both partners have the same financial requirements for their visas.

Sorry to tell you that news, but it is a fact in Thailand you need to be aware of before you decide to come to Thailand to live "longstay" here.

[ozyjon]

I am Australian but i live in Thailand 6 months and then i live in Portugal 6 months, i have been living in Thailand for 7 years and this country is not a holiday dream country, be very careful about coming to live here full time because it can be very expensive and also consider the visa situation, if you don't have a lot of money don't come here, you will have problems. also consider the Hospital system, you are not Thai so who will take care of you if you are sick. I will go to Portugal on Saturday to avoid the rainy season in Thailand. Good luck on your trip.

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Edited May 8, 2014 by ubonjoe
non English language is not allowed

[MargaridaGuerra]

Just to let you know that the Portuguese Embassy/Consulate in Bangkok is useless. They are not helpful and quite rude. If unfortunately, you require to use their services, I strongly recommend you to make an appointment one week before, as if you walk-in without booking, you will be receive like an animal. And it's not even about work overload, as the times I went, there was nobody.

As for your question, it is technically illegal to work online in Thailand without a work permit.

How much would I really need the Portuguese embassy though? Would I have to contact them every time I had to do a border run for instance? Must I keep them updated somehow during my stay?

Thanks for your response

[oliver engel]

Thailand is not that cheap as many years ago but of course much cheaper than Europe and you can get a good health insurance here for about 600 to 700 Euro per year for your age and ED Visa would be the easiest way for you,but get a multiple Tourist Visa first before youre coming here and stay a few month to look,if you like and can stay here.Cambodia you can not compare with Thailand and they are 20 years behind Thailand,infrastructure and health and safety much more worst there and its not that cheap as you think

Of course,Phuket is very expensive compare to Hua Hin to stay,but its always depends,how high is your living standard and budget.

I am living here for 16 years and still happy here

[Gillyflower]

You have been given some excellent advice Margarida. JouniF tells you to come for a holiday on a tourist visa. Very sound. I live next door to you, but sometimes things are cheaper at home than they are in Thailand.

[MargaridaGuerra]

Thank you all for taking the time to give me some advice.

I still have a few questions, if anything, I probably have more now and I hope some of you can clarify them for me.

Ozyjon, mentioned the Hospital system, which brings up a good point. Is it possible for us to get health insurance without being residents and just living there on a multiple entry visa for a year?

He also mentioned that living there was also somewhat costly, which isn't the idea that I have of Thailand at all. Right now I live in Rotterdam and I pay 600€ for a small studio in a beat up neighborhood. I can afford it but I know (or think I know) I can get a lot more for that amount of money in Thailand. Am I wrong?

This brings me to my next question. We're a modest couple who don't really travel for the luxury but more for the robust experience of traveling itself. We like getting to know new cultures and exploring the town. We aren't looking to spend on night outings, clubs and all that comes with it, its just not our style. So how much on average would a young couple waste per month in a place like Phuket? Not frugal but not luxurious living either. We don't want a three bedroom home with a swimming pool and a maid. A nice apartment will do nicely or even a spacious, modern studio, (though the swimming pool would be a plus)

IMA_FARANG mentioned working permits weren't easy to attain for someone who is self employed. Wouldn't it be smart of Thailand to give off work permits though, so that people can pay government tax? What are the requirements exactly and how costly is it? Also, what percentage of government tax is in place today?

It was also mentioned that both partners needed the same financial requirements which I assume is proof of steady income... (Please correct me if I'm wrong) but what are the exact requirements and how often must we show them? On every entry?

Last but by no means least, where and when must we apply for our visa's? How long do these things usually take and do I have to go to my home country to apply or can I just do it online like you do for visa's to most other places?

Thank you once again for all of your help.

P.s. JouniF, if everything goes according to plan, we will definitely take you up on that cup of tea. Fingers crossed, we really don't want to give up on this idea of moving to Thailand.

Margarida G

[davidmann]

Don't move to thailand

[lostinisaan]

Thank you all for taking the time to give me some advice.

I still have a few questions, if anything, I probably have more now and I hope some of you can clarify them for me.

Ozyjon, mentioned the Hospital system, which brings up a good point. Is it possible for us to get health insurance without being residents and just living there on a multiple entry visa for a year?

He also mentioned that living there was also somewhat costly, which isn't the idea that I have of Thailand at all. Right now I live in Rotterdam and I pay 600€ for a small studio in a beat up neighborhood. I can afford it but I know (or think I know) I can get a lot more for that amount of money in Thailand. Am I wrong?

This brings me to my next question. We're a modest couple who don't really travel for the luxury but more for the robust experience of traveling itself. We like getting to know new cultures and exploring the town. We aren't looking to spend on night outings, clubs and all that comes with it, its just not our style. So how much on average would a young couple waste per month in a place like Phuket? Not frugal but not luxurious living either. We don't want a three bedroom home with a swimming pool and a maid. A nice apartment will do nicely or even a spacious, modern studio, (though the swimming pool would be a plus)

IMA_FARANG mentioned working permits weren't easy to attain for someone who is self employed. Wouldn't it be smart of Thailand to give off work permits though, so that people can pay government tax? What are the requirements exactly and how costly is it? Also, what percentage of government tax is in place today?

It was also mentioned that both partners needed the same financial requirements which I assume is proof of steady income... (Please correct me if I'm wrong) but what are the exact requirements and how often must we show them? On every entry?

Last but by no means least, where and when must we apply for our visa's? How long do these things usually take and do I have to go to my home country to apply or can I just do it online like you do for visa's to most other places?

Thank you once again for all of your help.

P.s. JouniF, if everything goes according to plan, we will definitely take you up on that cup of tea. Fingers crossed, we really don't want to give up on this idea of moving to Thailand.

Margarida G

Hi Maragarida,

Life isn't that cheap as many people might think. 10 Euros here 12 years ago were similar to 100 now. You should get travel insurance from Holland, or your country of origin.At least for three months or so ,until you find an option here. It's never good not to have one, believe me.

There’re ways to get insurance from a hospital, but that depends on where you’re going to.

The times are really over, where you could live dirt cheap, as almost all has gotten so expensive. I wouldn't even think about Phuket, as it’s the most expensive place in Thailand now.

There’re more reasons why I wouldn't want to live there, please read the Phuket forum and you’ll understand.

There’re plenty of other nice places and it wouldn't be that difficult to find a place, let’s say in Prachuap Khiri Khan.

I don’t think that your idea would work well to apply for a work permit doing online activities, as your income, what you’re doing, etc...is clearly defined.

You don’t get Thai citizenship, even if you’d work ten years for the Thai government, so the visa problem might be a big issue.

If your English is good enough, you might find an English teaching position, if you hold a degree in any field.

Then you’ll have to have your degree translated into Thai, to apply for a work permit. But then you’d be legal and you might love to teach Thai kids English.

The ED visa would definitely be a good way, as you’ll learn Thai and might enjoy it. The other option being on tourist visas can become difficult after too many visa runs.

Whatever you guys will do, I wish you best of luck.

[colin2]

My advice is Dont come here !. Go over there !.

[khunPer]

»It began as a joke, the idea of moving to a paradise like island...«

Exactly that was my joke back in the late 1980’ies: When I one day can pack my business into some kind of computer I can carry and wireless be in contacts with the World and my bank back home, I will move to a paradise Bounty-island and sit in the shadow under the coconut palms on the beach and do my business whilst served cold drinks by beautiful ladies…

We all laughed about that “joke” – but 20 years later I did it, my best decision in life and I don’t regret…

However there were some differences from your dream-joke – I managed to pass 50 and had at that time enough saving to survive without Work Permit. I could not have afforded an early retirement in my home country; at least my life-style would have been “to modest”.

My replies to some of your questions are:

1) Visa

Your best option without visa runs is the ED visa, as several has suggested. Non Immigrant B requires a Work Permit, may be possible if one work as teacher that the other is dependant/spouse (some of the Visa experts can enlighten that).

2) Paradise Island or…

Someone mentioned an island – like Samui – is not cheap. Correct that islands normally are more expensive than mainland, but daily living cost at an island like Samui is not that different, as chain stores have same prices as on the mainland. Hua Hin or Phuket may not be (much) cheaper, however transportation to-and-from an island is higher. As a tourist destination Samui is considered more expensive.

Best advice, as others also has suggested, is to take a holiday trip to Thailand and visit potential areas, spent some days or a week each place and check the possibilities – check if you at all can live in that area at all.

If you way pass Koh Samui, you are welcome to send me a PM…

3) Living costs

It is fairly right, that Thailand is not that cheap as it was and as you may read about. However it’s all depending of life-style, some do survive here on almost nothing like low income Thais need to do. If you want to live a European life-style, eat Western food and drink wine, the daily living costs for food will be same or higher than in Europe. However if you live more like Asians or a mix, you can easily save; my experience is, that in overall daily living-costs your money can last about double – and up to three times – compared to Europe. As living costs are depending of life-style, it is difficult to give an estimate, but for food/daily needs only it’s possible for 2 persons with modest life-style to live for some 20,000 baht (500 euro) a month – but you probably wish to spend more...

An apartment or condo may not be the cheapest to live in. Most of the places like Hua Hin, Phuket or Samui, you can rent a nice “paradise-like-island-style” bungalow (bedroom, aircon, living room, often a TV, bath, small kitchen, balcony/terrace) from between 8,000 and 12,000 bath (200 to 300 euro) a month; a villa or house from 10,000 (250) and up. Bungalows are normally included (some) furniture; you may need to buy something extra like bed linnet, towels etc. Sometimes electric and water are included, sometimes paid extra. You shall not expect to find accommodation on the Internet; you will need to browse locally.

Internet may be available as Wifi, otherwise a fixed ADSL-line normally costs from around 600 baht (15 euro) a month and up depending on speed, or a 3G-modem from around 400 baht (10 euro) a month plus extra for traffic beyond included allowance. There is an affordable initial fee for installation/modem. In some areas Internet can be unstable or slow in periods. It is advisable to use an UPS for electronics, costs about 2,000 baht (50 euro) locally.

Transportation is for Thais a motorbike, which can be rented on monthly basis for around 3,000 baht. Public transport varies depending of the areas, sometimes bus, sometimes so-called “song thaew” that is a pick-up truck with two row of seats on the back. Taxis can be expensive. Long-time car hire is possible, sometimes from around 15,000 baht a month. It is possible to buy motorbike or car, when you have an address in Thailand. International Drivers License is officially required, when staying more than 3 month you (officially) need a Thai DL. In some areas you can manage with public transportation.

4) Bank Account

Some banks (not all) will open an account for you on a Tourist Visa only or ED Visa, for example Bangkok Bank. You can have an ATM-card (cash debit card), but no credit card.

5) Health insurance

You need a health insurance (including PA, Personal Accident), which can be an International from home or one you buy locally from for example Bupa Thailand. I would count from 1,000 euro each and up annually for that, but it’s depending on which coverage you want, you can check on the Internet. Most public Thai hospitals are Okay, but you will need to buy a so-called VIP-room to comply with some kind of standard you expect. Private hospitals are very good, but can also be expensive, so bear that in mind when choosing insurance cover. Also think about repatriation and costs.

6) Work Permit

As already mentioned, for any kind of work you do in Thailand – including online for a foreign company or clients – you need a Work Permit. As self-employed that may be difficult, you need to be employed in a Thai company, and opening a company and obtaining a Work Permit is a bit complicated (you will need Thai partners/shareholders and shall normally employ 4 Thai workers before eligible for 1 WP). A number of people may do on-line work “under the radar”, keeping low profile about it – officially they live here of savings.

The income tax is very reasonable, compared to Europe, and start at 5% after personal deductions, meaning you begin to pay tax on what you earn more than around 180,000 baht a year. Foreigners having a WP shall be paid a minimum salary depending of country of origin (or job, schoolteachers are often lower paid), which may be from some 40,000 baht a month and up. To my knowledge you only pay income tax of money earned in Thailand, and money earned outside when brought in the same year as earned.

If you have more questions, I’m sue TV-members will be pleased to answer you.

I wish you good luck with your “paradise like island” plan…

[MyFriend You]

Your best, and most likely, only option in the beginning is a triple entry toruist visa. It would give you almost 270 days with two border runs and three extensions. The other option is and ED visa, but you would have to enroll and pay for the one year course in full before the visa would be issued, about 25000 baht each. No border runs would be reqiired but you would have to attend class and update your permission to stay at immigration every 90 days, cost 1900 baht.

Working here is illegal without a work permit but many do it on line. You might be able to find a English teaching job but it woould depend on your English skills and education. A member of the "work permit brigade" will be along shortly to update you on the requirements, someone most likely doing exactly what they tell you that you can't do and are working illegally themselves!

If you are thinking of an "island paradise" such as Samui, not cheap!

Lots of opportunities abound in Thailand - I would suggest Pattaya or Rayong - you & your mate have skills, ambition and desire. I have several friends that work on line, database managers, graphics designers for magazines, one guy even teaches guitar on line, all make a fair living and are 'living the dream' don't lose any contacts you have back in Portugal or Netherlands, Internet access abounds here - several posters on TV have proven to me with a little imagination and a few bucks you can earn a living here - good luck, hope to see you on the Beach here sometime.

[moe666]

as with all beach towns they are expensive, the area around Chiang Mai can be much cheaper, more than likely you will have to do some border runs to complete a year. About the only thing you qualify for is a multiply tourist visa or the education visa but immigration is cracking down on this and you will need to be able and show a monthly income or enough money coming from outside the country to support yourself and boy friend will have to do the same. It isn't that easy to show up and stay a year any more mainly because of other like your self who want to work in Thailand illegally and the government is cracking down on it

[lucjoker]

If you are not a millionaire ,there is no paradise in Thailand !

Even on an island ,it looks paradise ,but it isn't a paradise to live in .

Because you will need money (work) and you are not allowed to work her !

If lucky (and with a work permit) they will pay you 30 -40 000 bht /month ,

and that is just enough to survive .

You are also young,so not wanted in Thailand ! That's why it is very difficult to obtain a visa .

(there are unlawful tricks to get a visa ,but they can change it tomorrow and out you go .)

Better stay in the paradise of Portugal ,cheaper ,less hassle ,no visa issues AND the eu will

help you out !

This is my opinion ,i will go to Portugal this summer ,for a holiday, beautiful country,nice beaches......

I understand because of the crisis (the politicians robbed your country ) it isn't easy to live high standard.....

but it surely wont be easier in Thailand !

Think it over ,come for a trial and you will know.

[Will2011]

Just to let you know that the Portuguese Embassy/Consulate in Bangkok is useless. They are not helpful and quite rude. If unfortunately, you require to use their services, I strongly recommend you to make an appointment one week before, as if you walk-in without booking, you will be receive like an animal. And it's not even about work overload, as the times I went, there was nobody.

As for your question, it is technically illegal to work online in Thailand without a work permit.

How much would I really need the Portuguese embassy though? Would I have to contact them every time I had to do a border run for instance? Must I keep them updated somehow during my stay?

Thanks for your response

Margarida, por favor, tenha juízo. Just kidding, but first you have to register. It's better because in case of emergency, they would be able to help you. Well, in theory because I think they don't really care if you have any problem. You could die, they couldn't care less The otnhee thing you would need it is to renew your passport and other administrative papers that you may need.

Before moving heads down to thailand, it's best to first pay a visit to see what is like. Maybe you won't like it. Unless o papa e a mama (your parents) are paying for everything, Thailand would be more expensive than staying in Portugal (assuming you live with your family).

It may be your dream, but life is not Disneyland, and Thailand is certainly not Disneyland either. Kindly,

Edited May 9, 2014 by Will2011

[rct99q]

Not sure where in Portugal you live, but having live d in both countries (Vilamoura/Quarteira) and Portugal wins hands down......100%. As a 2 week holiday either are okay....

I understand you have been sold on all of the ads and it is really just smoke and mirrors. You will never get around the "visa" issues and time it takes. With your background look elsewhere, honestly. Some people remain here because they are trapped, some like it, some are lost and some believe it is the hidden paradise ....... sorry to burst your bubble....but look South America, North Africa (one of my favorites), ANYWHERE else in Europe as it is so easy to do with European Passports, America, Canada, Caribbean, Mexico, Pacific Islands......

But it a go...maybe for you ti might be paradise.

[MargaridaGuerra]

Maybe I should explain my situation a bit better, seeming as some members are still a little in the dark about what it is that I truly want. My mind is made up about going to Thailand, the visa and work permit "issue's" may be hard to overcome, but they certainly are doable. All I wanted was advice on them, and you've all certainly given me that. For that I am internally grateful. I'm also pretty set on Phuket as well and I don't think I'll be changing my mind any time soon.

Now, to answer some of YOUR questions;

A few people mentioned other nice places that might be better for me, I know Brazil and South America were brought up, but if those places interested me, I wouldn't be on this forum. Like I mentioned before, my mind is made up.

On that same note, Portugal is definitely out of the question. I just left this January and I don't count on going back any time soon. Certainly not to live.

This is mostly for lucjoker and rct99q, I'm not entirely sure under what circumstances you guys visit Portugal or with what frequency, but my guess is you go for long or short vacations, (vacations being the key word here.) I lived in Portugal for a good chunk of time and if things were good over there, I would have stayed and wouldn't be in the Netherlands (I don't even like it here.)

Portugal is cheap for foreigners, the same way Thailand is cheap for foreigners. Lucjoker, you mentioned with the crisis, that it is hard to live "high standard" in Portugal, only problem with that theory is that its wrong. It's hard to survive in Portugal period. Portugal has no forceable future. All of our young people are leaving and the old are left behind. No one has children in Portugal anymore because we simply cannot afford to. It's a sad truth, but a truth none the less. I'm glad you enjoy going over there for holiday though, we truly do have some beautiful places, but locals, simply can't afford to enjoy them. We Portugese have a saying that goes as fallows, "de Coimbra para baixo, não e Portugal" which basically means from Coimbra (small city in Portugal's center) down, is not Portugal anymore. This is just a very poetic way of saying that the further you go down in Portugal, the more expensive it gets. I can't afford beaches like Algarve. I'd be confident in saying that 90% of Portuguese people can't afford it and that seems unfair, its our land, why shouldn't we be able to enjoy it? It's not made for us, it's made for tourists and for tourists, its cheap.

To answer Will2011, a mama e o papa não pagam nada, (unfortunately)

As much as a little extra cash would help, I don't have the nerve to ever ask my mother for money or anyone for that matter. I left the United States to quench my thirst for travel and independence. Independence comes with a big dose of reality where I work 40 hours a week in a packing factory and make only half of what I should because of my age, just so I can get to see new places and live life my own way. I pay my own bills and don't have any family in the Netherlands with me, aside from my boyfriend. But we have it good so I can't complain.

I mentioned this before but I'll say it again, we're not looking for luxurious and fancy. We're looking for modest and homy. It doesn't make sense in my head to pay 600€ of rent for a small studio in a place I don't enjoy, when I could be in a nicer, more tropical local for less.

I also feel that some people think life is expensive in Thailand compared to what it used to be a few years ago, but if you compare it to Europe or Canada, or even Australia, its pocket change.

Anyway, thank you all for your responses, they have all been very helpful and insightful.

Thank you khunPer for the very elaborate list of costs, it helped more than you know

And thank you TunnelRat69, your response gave me even more enthusiasm about going.

Best regards Margarida

[moe666]

Good luck with what ever you do

[Smurkster]

I'm sorry but how can your mind be 100% made up if you have never even been here. It's like my saying " I want to move to Kazakhstan", yet I haven't even checked the place out first

[Smurkster]

I also would like to add that while Portugal has no "Forseeable future" Thailand's future ain't so bright that you'll have to wear shades

[starship]

Margarida, I think your last post explains your position and motivation for people to clearly understand. I've spent a long time here on and off and I would 2nd what another poster suggested - come and spend some time here first. There's another side to Thailand behind the smiles that's less picture postcard that you don't truly see until you've been here a long time. It may not be the place you imagine.

However you seem to have made up your mind to come long term. You have to experience things yourself sometimes as everyone's take can be different.

To be honest I think you will find it extremely difficult finding a legal job as in terms of English teaching, which a lot of people do, you are not a native speaker which is what employers here want and without a degree it would be very difficult to get a teaching job as you would be very far down the list. There are tens of thousands of people in your position who want to work in Thailand and many will have a degree and be a native speaker. Outside of teaching there is very little that a foreigner can legally do unless they are very experienced in their field or a very senior manager (hotels/engineering etc). Others open businesses but this can cost a lot of money (proportionately) and I imagine you neither have the funds or desire to do so.

As others have said you could work online but you would be working illegally. Would you really want to do this long term when you are perhaps planning a permanent life change? If you boyfriend is very good at IT perhaps he could actually find a job here rather than working online for himself, as there are often jobs advertised in that field.

Also, although it is cheaper here than europe it is no longer really cheap. I would say the cost of living has nearly doubled here in the past 5-6 years due to poor foreign exchange rates and regular food/other inflation here. Obviously if you are earning here the fx changes do not affect you. Something also that I think is not often said is that although it's cheaper here, if you are earning local wages that are much less than european ones you perhaps may not be as better off as you think. Thailand really is no different to any country and is miserable when your skint and can't afford to do anything, plus it's difficult to stay long term like you can in europe.

Thailand is much more commercial, business and money oriented than the old days. I used to pay 30 Baht for a bamboo hut on the beach on Koh Phangan and 50 Baht on Koh Phi Phi 20 years ago. Those days are long gone. Everything's gone upmarket in general, and those Islands and many places are not for people who want to live cheaply long term any more. Thailand wants people with lot's of money and is making it continuously harder (visa's etc) for those who haven't. If you do want to live really cheaply it is possible, but you just grow tired of it as you get older (which you will).

The main bonus for me is the weather. It's practically hot and sunny everyday, so you can wear a t-shirt etc all the time rather than layers of clothing like the west during winter. It just makes you feel more positive every day. Although I guess coming from Portugal you haven't had it really cold like other countries.

I'd just like to mention I went to Portugal about 10 years ago. What a beautiful country, so natural, amazing food, so cheap (I thought). What a shame that local people can't enjoy what it has to offer - as you say. I guess this says a lot about our western countries and their governments.

Good luck to you both. Better to have tried and failed than never tried at all.

[Mentors]

Really not the best time to moving here!