Farang death procedure in Thailand

[arjunadawn]

Well, to any subject matter expert, or best guess- what is best arrangement To ensure end of life wishes be fulfilled (body processing, autopsy, cremation, burial, DNR, organs, finances)? Of course a will comes or mind (and living will/POA) but is that all?

[speedtripler]

I can see the WAT and its chimney from my window.

Went there to have a look. All looks decent. They (monks) even opened the door of the cremation compartment to inspect it.

I am satisfied that they use gas. Remains (ashes) are to be put in the sea.

Not being in a hurry but ready to go any time. No big drama but definitely do not want pain or prolonged suffering. Any recommendations for this?

ever tried painkillers?

You may need morphine and they severely restrict its use in Thailand .

it was over the counter until 2002 i beleive as well as other useful but controlled meds

so was Codeine but that was restricted as well as too many thais were propping up their

daily slump with opiates and coca cola

they still have it in legit hospitals if you are i dire need they will inject you

much harder to get some to bring home now due to the abuse risk

[geriatrickid]

can't really say, I haven't died yet.....

Give it some time. You will have the answer far sooner than you want.

[geriatrickid]

I can see the WAT and its chimney from my window.

Went there to have a look. All looks decent. They (monks) even opened the door of the cremation compartment to inspect it.

I am satisfied that they use gas. Remains (ashes) are to be put in the sea.

Not being in a hurry but ready to go any time. No big drama but definitely do not want pain or prolonged suffering. Any recommendations for this?

ever tried painkillers?

You may need morphine and they severely restrict its use in Thailand .

Yes and no. The problem is overall training in palliative care and the understanding of pain control. Thailand is not very advanced when it comes to palliative care. Something to consider when one is facing an end of life situation.

Palliative care and essential drug availability: Thailand national survey 2012.

Thongkhamcharoen R1, Phungrassami T, Atthakul N.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Palliative care in Thailand was not well established in the past, but it is better supported by many organizations at present. Despite the change in the situation, the availability of essential drugs for palliative care has not been well studied.

OBJECTIVE:

Our aim was to update the medical community on the current situation of essential drug availability for palliative care in Thai hospitals.

METHODS:

The International Association for Hospice and Palliative Care (IAHPC) list of 34 essential drugs for palliative care was used in this survey.

RESULTS:

Five hundred and fifty-five hospitals replied to the questionnaire (response rate 57%). Eleven of the 24 nonopioid drugs were available above 90% in all hospitals. However, nonopioid drugs generally were less available in community hospitals (CH) and general hospitals (GH) than in large hospitals (LH). Tramadol was the most available weak opioid. Injectable morphine was the most available form of strong opioid in Thailand (96.9%). For the overall picture of oral morphine, immediate-release morphine was a less available form than the controlled-release form (32.2% versus 51.0%). Controlled-release oral morphine had a nearly two-fold better availability than immediate-release oral morphine in CH, GH, and LH, that is, cancer centers (CC), medical school hospitals (MH), regional hospitals (RH), and other government hospitals. In contrast, in private hospitals (PH), there was no difference between the availability of the controlled-release form and the immediate-release form. Transdermal fentanyl and methadone were also less available in Thailand (14.6% versus 16.5%, respectively).

CONCLUSION:

LH and PH have better overall nonopioid and opioid medication availability than CH and GH.

[Frank James]

Thanks to Kerryd for your story in post No. 23. Didn't want to waste space quoting the whole thing, but it was a great read, and very educational.

And NancyL, for all the fine work you do in this community, I am sure there will be a place of honor for you at the Foreign Cemetery of Chiang Mai, when your time comes. Thank you.

[Rascaljay]

My brother passed on March 8th of this year. He died on Koh Lanta. He died Saturday night, had a temple ceremony at the wat on Sunday, and was scattered at sea on Monday. He died in hospital of cancer. He was a US citizen. I don't know what hoops had to be jumped through, I just know it was remarkably fast.

As for bones/ashes, his UK friend handled that and sent me a small portion of the ashes via postal service. He just had to declare them as ashes. The ashes I received fit in a small (4 x 6 x 1 1/2 inches) box and contained bits of bone smaller than 1/4 inch and ash.

[rizla]

There was a case here in Prasat Surin, where a falang was being cremated with his wife and mourners present at the temple ( gas burning)..

He was moving along on the belt when the door flew open and the procedure was stopped as officials removed the lid on his coffin and took the dead mans prints , shut the lid back down and walk back out the door they came in.....

Only in thailand......

[hillbillybob]

The procedure varies depending upon the place where the event occurs -- at home, in hospital; nationality of the deceased; witnesses present; circumstances of the death -- i.e. long illness with anticipated death vs. sudden death, etc. In general, when a foreigner dies at home, the police are called and the body is taken to the morgue. Often an autopsy is ordered if the death wasn't anticipated. In all cases, the Embassy/Consulate of the foreigner is notified. The grapevine works very quickly here. It's difficult to hide the death of a foreigner and quite commonly the deceased's Thai bank accounts are frozen until the next-of-kin presents appropriate documentation (like a court order or Will) to the bank. Not always (some widows have be able to continue to use ATM cards, but not always) Bodies are almost always cremated here.

. D

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Kerryd]

Guys what if you're not a thai citizen and you die in thailand and somehow they cannot contact a family member. Where does the body go?

Most likely after a given time they would simply give him/her a "paupers funeral" - no frills cremation and ashes dumped at sea. If you die in Thailand and don't have any relatives or a Will, after a period of time (6 months I think) - the government gets all your stuff. Not sure what they do with it. Keep the good stuff and donate the rest probably.

According to a US State Department manual:

"If the consular officer is unsuccessful in obtaining private funds from any of

these sources or from NOK or friends, there is no alternative but to accept

disposition of the remains by local authorities under local law or regulations."

(This is in the event that there is no will, or they can't contact a NOK, or the NOK can't pay for a funeral or the consular officer is unable to get funds from your estate to pay the expenses and isn't able to get an "organization" like a Chamber of Commerce or Veterans (VFW) type group to chip in for the costs.) Other countries will no doubt have some similar instructions for their consular people (or not).

Best idea is to have some kind of Will. Ideally one drawn up and registered with a Thai law firm (but that costs $$ of course). Alternatively, I think there are Will kits available on the internet. Not sure how valid they are but they may give you the proper framework to set up a Will at least.

The chief idea is, having something that will tell the authorities who you are (name/nationality), who to contact (or not to, or just the embassy depending if you have any family left anywhere) and what to do with your remains and assets (i.e. give your stuff to the local orphanage/temple or dumpster, cremate and dump the remains in the ocean).

I really do need to get off me arse one day and do up a will, as this is the boat I am in. If I were to croak (and given my lifestyle it's almost amazing that I haven't yet), some government official would make out like a bandit (assuming my neighbours didn't find out first and clean me out before the authorities got there !). I've toyed with the idea of setting up a Trust to benefit some local charity, but who to trust to set up a Trust that wouldn't be cleaned out and closed the day after you die ?

I'll be in the "bake and shake" club as well (just cook me and shake the ashes over the ocean) as it won't really matter to me at that point. I should be buried sitting on the Harley but I'm pretty sure that won't happen (in Thailand at least) ! They should have "Bat Out Of Hell" blasting through the speakers as they fill in the hole (and then the sound of a hog starting up from under the ground and as the engine revs up, the blood-curdling scream "Soi 6 - I'm coming for you !" is heard as the ground begins to shake.....) erm - what were we talking about again ?

Yeah, give the good folk that will have to deal with you something to go on at least. Even if you've got nothing and no one, at least they'll know that and be able to deal with the situation appropriately.

[martinatkins]

Under what if any circumstances can the body be sent back to his/her country???

This an information booklet sent to me via the British Consulate in Thailand when my brother topped himself. It might be of some help.

[martinatkins]

Under what if any circumstances can the body be sent back to his/her country???

This an information booklet sent to me via the British Consulate in Thailand when my brother topped himself. It might be of some help.

[martinatkins]

Under what if any circumstances can the body be sent back to his/her country???

This booklet may be helpful.

Information Relating to Deaths in Thailand Jan 28 2013 Final.pdf

Edited May 14, 2014 by martinatkins

[3NUMBAS]

DIY cremation takes place and a sorry sight to see with fuel and clothing on the pyre in the bunker with the coin on the tongue to pass over ,next day its has to be swept out for the next funeral ,and the ashes and remains buried elsewhere , an appalling experience for those who have never seen such a thing before,and friends and neighbors will expect a big party with the monks in attendance ,this is where the cost comes in .

Edited May 14, 2014 by 3NUMBAS

[CMBob]

As noted before, thanks to KerryD for a fairly complete outline of the procedure.

I'd like to add two things:

(1) While this is fairly obvious, the hospital isn't going to release the body until they've been paid for their services (expenses of last illness, any autopsy expenses, and morgue fees).

(2) No falang body is leaving the hospital until the police have signed off (and, while I don't know for sure, I presume their signature is needed to make it clear that no unnatural death occurred). In at least one case (which occurred in Chiangmai this past October), the cops were demanding 30,000 baht (tea money) to sign off. After being told in so many words multiple times over a week's period that hell would freeze over before they would be paid one satang for doing their damn job, they relented and signed off so the cremation could take place.

[TheFishman1]

Last July a good friend of mine pass away bike accident the Candian Embassy contacted me from BKK then the Consulate of Canada in Chiang Mai contacted me set a time to meet at his room to ship back his stuff,I went to the hospital at his father request was surprised showing no ID was able to see his body with in about two weeks his body was flown back to Canada this July will be one year . Very sad he would have turn 30 in 7 days RIP Derrick

[Benmart]

The procedure varies depending upon the place where the event occurs -- at home, in hospital; nationality of the deceased; witnesses present; circumstances of the death -- i.e. long illness with anticipated death vs. sudden death, etc. In general, when a foreigner dies at home, the police are called and the body is taken to the morgue. Often an autopsy is ordered if the death wasn't anticipated. In all cases, the Embassy/Consulate of the foreigner is notified. The grapevine works very quickly here. It's difficult to hide the death of a foreigner and quite commonly the deceased's Thai bank accounts are frozen until the next-of-kin presents appropriate documentation (like a court order or Will) to the bank. Not always (some widows have be able to continue to use ATM cards, but not always) Bodies are almost always cremated here.

I have heard that the bones are offered back not ashes.

Any idea how true this is?

the Soi Dog mafia may have a say in those bones.

the Soup stalls too

Tasteless, juvenile and well...substance induced?

[BillyBobThai]

The wife and went to CMU medical school, anatomy dept. here in Chaing Mai and filled out the forms to have our bodies used in the anatomy course here. She had my passport, and 2 small pictures. We signed the forms and were given a plastic card with our picture on explaining what to do. The telephone number, 053-945318 to call for a body pickup. She was told that the school would take care of the paper work, police, American consulate and whatever was needed. You have a choice after the anatomy course is finished. You can pick up the remains after they are cremated or they will dispose of the ashes. We both see no reasons to spend a 100,000 or so baht. This way someone will get one last use out of my old a$$. The man at the school told me they get about 300 donations a year at this school.

Several years ago I went to the cremation of a neighbor in rural Phichit prov. After everybody walked past the coffin and threw in paper flowers, one of the local headmen, poured sugar all around the body. He probably used 20 kg worth, nobody could tell me why, I just figured it must have made the fire hotter. There was no top put on the coffin, the paper flowers were lit and the charcol below was lit. Judging by the size of the buggy that held the coffin, there was a good 25 kg of charcol under the coffin. After the buggy was pushed inside the oven and the door closed, a few of us sat around outside the crematory and proceded to drink some Thai whiskey.

[ABCer]

Judging by the humorous/frivolous responses I didn't make myself clear enough.

When I said "definitely do not want prolonged unnecessary pain and suffering"

I meant that I decide when, how and at what circumstances I will be going.

A friend of mine (MD) suggested barbiturates OD. I want it to be sure (reliable), painless and without discomfort.

Leaving palliative care, painkillers and mourning crowds to the jokers. Do not suggest aspirin, paracetamol, codeine, nurofen, etc.

Jokers, please control your bladders. Thanks.

[Krataiboy]

Nobody else seems to have mentioned it, but it is important to have a doctor certify death and provide a death certificate before anything is done with the body. The certificate will be needed for all sorts of purposes afterwards, for example when it comes to proving any Will that has been made.

There is a big and lucrative market out there for organs such as kidneys and liver. I'm not being paranoid (I hope) in having asked my wife to ensure she gets a death certificate before allowing anyone else access to my remains.

[donniereadit]

As a newbie i was at a deserted park in chiang mai and wandering around, by the drag to the airport. Found some old abandoned buildings and huges piles of ashes.

After trudging around for some time I figured out that they were not burning trash there. Chiang mai does also have a good size burial cemetary that is located on the street just above the night market on chang klan. you can see the polts from the street through the fence. very old. a large crematorium is just up from there.

Just a note to south to collect your ashes afterwards if it moves you. Also, many of these places are left open with no supervision, stray dogs, what have you.

i go figure that if i pass timely the one to discover me would be my maid, and that's ok with me.

[NancyL]

I've just skimmed the many posts and am surprised to see the interest in this topic. I've been very busy today with, yes, another LCN client and a death. I can tell you that every death situation is different and the different nationalities have different procedures. The detailed stories presented here are very, very helpful -- but don't accept that they are the 100% rule.

In between the two LCN people I assisted today, I enjoyed a nice lunch with the expat ladies, trying very hard to talk about fun stuff like the new shops at JJ Market, when someone said they'd really appreciate knowing more about the details of what really happens when foreigners die here. She started with the basics, like how do they get your body out of the condo when it has such a tiny elevator. She also wanted details on how a crematorium works. She'd only been here a year. I asked for volunteers from around the table, saying we could go out to Hai Ya and see if they'd fire up one of the furnaces for us. Sorry, took them a while to get the humor.

Anyway, this thread is timely. Let's keep adding personal experiences. Well, maybe not first-hand experiences like I proposed, but what have you observed when a loved one or family member passes here in CM.

[YipYipYa123]

Judging by the humorous/frivolous responses I didn't make myself clear enough.

When I said "definitely do not want prolonged unnecessary pain and suffering"

I meant that I decide when, how and at what circumstances I will be going.

A friend of mine (MD) suggested barbiturates OD. I want it to be sure (reliable), painless and without discomfort.

Leaving palliative care, painkillers and mourning crowds to the jokers. Do not suggest aspirin, paracetamol, codeine, nurofen, etc.

Jokers, please control your bladders. Thanks.

A litre bottle of whisky and a few hundred valium 10mgs and you will lose consciousness and not wake up... Regardless of age or medical condition

[Som wat]

How do the banks find out so quickly?

They get a message saying that unusually large withdrawals are being attempted, please contact the card holder.

[Spaniel]

How do the banks find out so quickly?

I don't think the banks do find out when a farang passes away. Who would be telling them? I hardly think a Embassy would contact every bank in Thailand to advise them that such and such passed away.

[Gerard052]

The body can always be repatriated if that is what is wanted by the decieced, oh and if it can be paid for as it isnt cheap. That's once the body has been released after medical examination.

I have taken an insurance about 5 years ago and they will repat my body from anywhere in the world and they have specialists to do so.

[Califlower]

I hope someone can help me or give me some insight.

My father, a Farang, has passed on this last week. I had to have the news confirmed through the embassy as his wife (Thai) who said she would call me when anything would happen, still has not contacted me. The hospital already released the body to his wife, as she already had made arrangements with the temple to have his body cremated and could not longer wait. The hospital made an exception and went ahead and released it, again, they did not had approval from the embassy who told me that the wife told them she would call me and the embassy is very sorry as they wanted to give me at least the time to travel out there to attend the ceremony and it all happened against their policy

Now I am wondering about the inheritance....since I am the only daughter. They were legally married and she has two children of her own, how can I find all this out, not being there and afraid that stuff is being bribed away and concealed?

Thank you very very much in advance

CC

[kannot]

That is way is normal procedure but for ritual procedure also needed for the soul to rest in peace, if he dies in jail the warden have to declare that this name are free from now onward if not his spirits still trap in jail, if he dies in apartment his next of kin needed to call out his name to call him back to back home, it's depend where he would like to go after dead if he would like stay here then find a proper church for him.

The brain still function for few hours after dead and his last wish is important to fulfill so that he can really can rest in peace of mind.

Huh a "few minutes" at best

[jacky54]

I hope someone can help me or give me some insight.

My father, a Farang, has passed on this last week. I had to have the news confirmed through the embassy as his wife (Thai) who said she would call me when anything would happen, still has not contacted me. The hospital already released the body to his wife, as she already had made arrangements with the temple to have his body cremated and could not longer wait. The hospital made an exception and went ahead and released it, again, they did not had approval from the embassy who told me that the wife told them she would call me and the embassy is very sorry as they wanted to give me at least the time to travel out there to attend the ceremony and it all happened against their policy

Now I am wondering about the inheritance....since I am the only daughter. They were legally married and she has two children of her own, how can I find all this out, not being there and afraid that stuff is being bribed away and concealed?

Thank you very very much in advance

CC

Ask his wife if you can see his will, if she says no, or there is not one you will have to find a lawyer in Thailand. Wills are often stored at the local Amphur (council office)

Edited November 28, 2015 by jacky54

[mesquite]

From my Thai lawyer, paraphrased:

When a foreign man with a Thai family dies, the Will is supposed to dictate who gets what. But the Thai family is afraid that they won't get anything, so they come in and take everything.

Edited November 28, 2015 by mesquite

[willyumiii]

Yes, cremation here is done at lower temperatures than in the west, so there are more bones in the remains. Also, the Thais feel the bones are the important part of the remains, not the ashes, so the ashes are not kept when the remains are given back to the family. The family has to make a special point to request them. I know one case where the western family literally had to sweep the ashes off the ground themselves to be saved at the crematorium because the staff was regarding them as just so much trash to be separated from the bones. Actually it would have been a comic scene if it hadn't been the day after the cremation of a loved one. It was an interesting scene about the differences each culture has in what is regarded to be the important part of the remains. We consider the ashes important and are appalled to be handed a box of bones. The Thais consider the ashes to be trash.

As for me, I'd like my bones to be buried at the Foreign Cemetery in Chiang Mai after I'm torched.

Even when the western method is used, the bones don't burn much.

When my brother in law in the states was moonlighting as a security guard at a creamatorium, he showed me photos of many bones left after ceremation..

The relitives are given a box with ash and small bone fragments, they never see the bigber bones.

If you have ever scattered someone's ashes, you have seen unburned bone fragments.