Any advice on moving Thai lodger along please

[Mac66]

Apologies in advance if I have this post in the wrong forum or topic area.

I have known a Thai couple for the last 6 years and was included at their marriage in Buriram and in celebrations when they had the birth of their new baby girl. We didn't regularly catch up but often enough to get to know them. They have lived and worked in Bangkok since I had met them through mutual friends and have never asked me to help out with money and when joining for meal they would pay their own way. When the baby was born she stayed with mum and dad for about a year and then the wife's mother took baby to Buriram and was the care giver whilst parent worked Bangkok.

About 4 months ago there was a decision made that the mother would return to Buriram and take care of their daughter and the father would continue working and send money. They packed up their small apartment and asked to stay if they could stay one night as they were out of their apartment and the minivan would leave early the next morning. No problem I had a two bedroom apartment and the second bedroom was not being used. The stayed and left for Buriram. Three days later the father comes back and asks if he put his small fridge, microwave and a few other small items in my apartment to keep them safe whilst he finds a smaller place to live, saying it would take no more than days to find a place. He went off that day supposedly to look at apartments. Ten o'clock that night he called me and said he had not found anything as yet but would look again tomorrow but would it be ok to stay for the night. I didn't think this would be a problem.

We are not 4 months down the track and he has not returned to work and still taking up my 2nd bedroom. I have asked him when he was moving out on many occasions but the answer is that I have no one staying in the 2nd room why cant he stay there ... he likes it and it is good for him ... I have tried not to get angry but on a few occasions I do lose my cool, he could careless. He takes off at all sorts of hours in the night coming back late afternoons zoned out and obviously on something. I have found paraphernalia in the 2nd bathroom that confirms my substance abuse theory. I am not happy about this as if he is arrested in the street then I could be used as a bargaining tool with the police and then I can be roped into his substance use. My power bills are through the roof along with water and my food bill. I have stopped buying beer or wine or spirits for my apartment because he will drink at anytime of the day and he sees it as a requirement to empty everything, cannot leave a drop for someone else. Sharing is not in his mindset. He is also rude enough to help himself to my alcohol to go to his friends place and drink. It is very much the same for food, when I grocery shop for a week he will devour everything within 2 days, gorging himself. I have no stopped buying food in and cooking at home, if there is no food he cannot eat. This has drawn continual complaints from him that he is hungry and moans like a child for hours. On top of this he is obviously womanising and not supporting his wife / baby (not my business and that is for him and his wife to sort out) but his wife will call me 10 to 15 times a day asking where he is and why he will not send money for the baby and who is the lady that his friends tell her he takes to my apartment. He has never had a women to my apartment. I have asked his wife to stop calling my phone as I cant help her, this only makes her more upset and she then has from her mother call (I believe it is) on a different number and she just blurts out Thai which I dont understand. I have changed my number once already and wont do it again as it is my business number.

I am also now of the understanding that prior to the wife moving back to Buriram they both took out loans and credit cards with Krungsi Bank and the move and finishing their jobs was to avoid paying the money back. I have this information from a mutual Thai friend who says my lodger finds it amusing he has been able to get away for the money. This would suggest to me that he has no intention of ever getting a job as the bank would be able to find him relatively quickly. He has not asked me to give him money at anytime and I was curious as to how he got money to smoke and support himself when he went on the town. Likely be this money from the bank or he is doing something more worrisome that could come back to me.

I am at the point now that moving apartments is the only way to get rid of this guy. I have offered to pay 3 months rent, the bond and some extra spending money to help him out. He smiles and says just give him the money and he will take care...not a chance. He has not made threats or been impolite in fact just very nice but cant seem to realise I want my apartment back. I have spoken to the landlord, he doesn't want involved and suggested to get the police involved. My lodger says if I leave then he will come also or he will stay on in the apartment. I have talked to the real estate lady in our building (she organised my lease) and she says it is known that he is staying in my apartment and should I leave and he refuses then the landlord can hold me responsible if my lodger does not pay rent Not sure this could be right.

Any suggestions on how I can move him on? I do like my apartment, really like the area and I like the landlord. I don't want to move but it is looking like the only option. It seems that helping out with the best intentions has gotten me into a difficult situation.

Thanks

[Thaiberius]

Are you a man or a mouse? He is using you and he knows you are too weak to respond.

Grow some balls and get him out.

[Swiss1960]

Only see two options:

1 ) wait for him to leave your appartment, move his stuff out on the street, change the locks and tell the police that there will be trouble coming...

2 ) get yourself a new place to stay, and then do the same as in 1 ) but move yourself to the new appartment at the same time.

sorry, but if you don't have connections to the local police to come and help you move him out, then the above seems the way to do it.

[edwardandtubs]

If you'd summarise that long story into a short passage containing the relevant information then you'd get more responses.

[cooked]

I think the OP is worried about what may happen after the guy has moved out. Maybe he isn't registered in Buriram and I think that as tenant the OP should have reported him to the landlord. There are all sorts of ways the unwanted tenant can make things difficult. I really do think that he should go to the police station, find someone that speaks English, and explain his problem, the officer will then explain his problems to you and money will change hands.

[Beetlejuice]

So an acquaintance moves into the OP`s apartment, refuses to budge, eats and drinks at the pleasure of the OP and not paying anything towards a single bill, using the apartment as a drink and drug den, plus this has been going on for over 4 months.

The simple solution would be that if the OP goes out, is to throw out all his stuff and change the locks, but obviously there is much more to this than the OP is letting on, because no one can be this kind and so stupid.

The OP has 2 choices, either throw the guy out or put up with it, but if the OP does decide to throw the guy out, I advise that he first destroy any evidence of illegal drugs that maybe lying about the place.

The beetlejuice 2 golden rules for living a stress-free and peaceful life in Thailand: always keep a low profile and never get involved.

Good luck to all who sail in her.

[Thaiberius]

If you'd summarise that long story into a short passage containing the relevant information then you'd get more responses.

I'm guessing you are American Edward.

[Mac66]

So an acquaintance moves into the OP`s apartment, refuses to budge, eats and drinks at the pleasure of the OP and not paying anything towards a single bill, using the apartment as a drink and drug den, plus this has been going on for over 4 months.

The simple solution would be that if the OP goes out, is to throw out all his stuff and change the locks, but obviously there is much more to this than the OP is letting on, because no one can be this kind and so stupid.

The OP has 2 choices, either throw the guy out or put up with it, but if the OP does decide to throw the guy out, I advise that he first destroy any evidence of illegal drugs that maybe lying about the place.

The beetlejuice 2 golden rules for living a stress-free and peaceful life in Thailand: always keep a low profile and never get involved.

Good luck to all who sail in her.

No more to it other than I thought I was helping out on a very short term basis. I have asked from the very early days for him to get moving and have offered to pay his way to get him moving.

I live in a respectable building with mostly professional Thais. I am a quiet person and do not want to have conflict and I certainly don't want causing any physical altercations in the building to disturb my neighbours. I have asked security to stop him from coming in the building but this has not been successful as they sleep most of the time. I made an error in judgement by giving him a pass card to the front security door and the lift and my apartment. I have locked the door from the inside so he cannot get in after he has left and that only has him banging away at early hours disturbing other people. I feel embarrassed that my mistake is going to affect other people and I open the door to end the commotion. I admit I have been very stupid in this instance, never had a problem in Thailand in nearly 8 years.

I am not scared of him and I am sure if it came to a physical altercation I would not come off second best. I am just as sure that if I got physical with him that would not be an end to it and I do not want to be looking over my shoulder every time I leave the building. I have had suggestions by Thai friends but these are not avenues I would take.

Moving looks like the option. Thanks

[Mac66]

Only see two options:

1 ) wait for him to leave your appartment, move his stuff out on the street, change the locks and tell the police that there will be trouble coming...

2 ) get yourself a new place to stay, and then do the same as in 1 ) but move yourself to the new appartment at the same time.

sorry, but if you don't have connections to the local police to come and help you move him out, then the above seems the way to do it.

Thanks. I do not have any connections with police. Moving is the best option.

[mrtoad]

Gets some ghost noise recordings and pipe that into the building

[edwardandtubs]

If you'd summarise that long story into a short passage containing the relevant information then you'd get more responses.

I'm guessing you are American Edward.

No.

[Soutpeel]

Only see two options:

1 ) wait for him to leave your appartment, move his stuff out on the street, change the locks and tell the police that there will be trouble coming...

2 ) get yourself a new place to stay, and then do the same as in 1 ) but move yourself to the new appartment at the same time.

sorry, but if you don't have connections to the local police to come and help you move him out, then the above seems the way to do it.

Thanks. I do not have any connections with police. Moving is the best option.

I made an error in judgement by giving him a pass card to the front security door and the lift and my apartment.

Cant you get the get some new cards recoded and make what he has got inoperable and he cant get in at all ?

should I leave and he refuses then the landlord can hold me responsible if my lodger does not pay rent Not sure this could be right.

This could actually be correct, as you have let him live there and you gave him a key

Edited May 17, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Seastallion]

Ordinary Thais would not let this happen. Come to that, ordinary farangs wouldn't stand for it either. 4 months is 4 months and 3 weeks too long. He's been taking the p1$$ (literally).

The story is almost unbelievable....and then you offer him money to leave? It should be short shrift. If you have money to offer him, use it instead to change the locks, write a letter to building management instructing them that under no circumstances should they allow him on to the property, or give him access to YOUR apartment, to tell him you have moved and put his stuff with the security guard, then go and have a holiday somewhere or at least stay at a hotel for a while.

Don't give in to this grifter/user/bum.

[silver sea]

Hello mac66

I am very sorry to read about your difficulties. You sound like a decent man whose good nature has been sorely abused. You have done nothing wrong to deserve this.

In your OP you say:

"I am also now of the understanding that prior to the wife moving back to Buriram they both took out loans and credit cards with Krungsi Bank and the move and finishing their jobs was to avoid paying the money back. I have this information from a mutual Thai friend who says my lodger finds it amusing he has been able to get away for the money. This would suggest to me that he has no intention of ever getting a job as the bank would be able to find him relatively quickly."

If the bank were to find out where he is living, do you, or indeed other TV readers, know what the legal consequences would be? If you owe money to a bank then under Thai law, will there be criminal as well as civil proceedings? Even if it is only a civil matter, any sort of contact from the bank may be enough to encourage him to make a quick exit.

Hope this helps.

Edited May 17, 2014 by jukebox

[Thaiberius]

It should be very simple to get the electronic key voided and reprogrammed.

I don't really know what the pomplem is with the OP - letting the guy stay there, considering moving out, offering the guy money, letting him eat his food. No wonder the guy is smirking at him. The term mug springs to mind but it's not too late. You don't say how old you are, is there a medical or physical reason why you can't evict him? Do as any self respecting man would do in his own home, kick him out!

[Gsxrnz]

Why is the OP's writing style so similiar to more than a few other newbie posters over the last few months who just have a few (or no) posts, and then post a very long convoluted story almost too ridiculous to be true.

Just sayin'.

[Beetlejuice]

So an acquaintance moves into the OP`s apartment, refuses to budge, eats and drinks at the pleasure of the OP and not paying anything towards a single bill, using the apartment as a drink and drug den, plus this has been going on for over 4 months.

The simple solution would be that if the OP goes out, is to throw out all his stuff and change the locks, but obviously there is much more to this than the OP is letting on, because no one can be this kind and so stupid.

The OP has 2 choices, either throw the guy out or put up with it, but if the OP does decide to throw the guy out, I advise that he first destroy any evidence of illegal drugs that maybe lying about the place.

The beetlejuice 2 golden rules for living a stress-free and peaceful life in Thailand: always keep a low profile and never get involved.

Good luck to all who sail in her.

No more to it other than I thought I was helping out on a very short term basis. I have asked from the very early days for him to get moving and have offered to pay his way to get him moving.

I live in a respectable building with mostly professional Thais. I am a quiet person and do not want to have conflict and I certainly don't want causing any physical altercations in the building to disturb my neighbours. I have asked security to stop him from coming in the building but this has not been successful as they sleep most of the time. I made an error in judgement by giving him a pass card to the front security door and the lift and my apartment. I have locked the door from the inside so he cannot get in after he has left and that only has him banging away at early hours disturbing other people. I feel embarrassed that my mistake is going to affect other people and I open the door to end the commotion. I admit I have been very stupid in this instance, never had a problem in Thailand in nearly 8 years.

I am not scared of him and I am sure if it came to a physical altercation I would not come off second best. I am just as sure that if I got physical with him that would not be an end to it and I do not want to be looking over my shoulder every time I leave the building. I have had suggestions by Thai friends but these are not avenues I would take.

Moving looks like the option. Thanks

You are contradicting yourself and it appears that you are scared of this guy.

You are perfectly within your rights, even under Thai law to throw this guy out of your home. He is not classified as a tenant but rather a guest who has over stayed his welcome. On the other hand if you have allowed this guy to bring his possessions into your home, store and use them there, then he could claim that he is your tenant, meaning throwing him out by force is not a legal option. Even if you move, you could be held responsible for the rent and bills and be accountable to the landlord for having someone else live on the premises without prior consent and contravening the renting agreement, plus liable to pay any legal fees or any other costs involved to the landlord if they need to legally evict this guy, including any damage caused to the property.

In my opinion no one in their right mind would allow anyone to squat in their home whilst the actual tenant is still living on the premises, that`s lunacy. Sorry but something s simply do not add up here, unless you are the most gullible fool in the Universe.

If during your association with this guy there has been other involvements with him that you`re not specifying then you may have problems.

Does your interpretation of moving mean running away and leaving the scene of a situation you have now lost control of?

Edited May 17, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[crazykopite]

Go to the police explain the situation I am sure for a 1,000 baht the policeman will come around and chase him for you it is that easy, as soon as the guy is in your apartment call the policeman a few of my mates have used this tactic to get out of a sticky situation good luck

[oneday]

Only see two options:

1 ) wait for him to leave your appartment, move his stuff out on the street, change the locks and tell the police that there will be trouble coming...

2 ) get yourself a new place to stay, and then do the same as in 1 ) but move yourself to the new appartment at the same time.

sorry, but if you don't have connections to the local police to come and help you move him out, then the above seems the way to do it.

Thanks. I do not have any connections with police. Moving is the best option.

You have lived in Thailand for 8 years and don't know that "getting connections" with the local police is as simple as passing over a couple of thousand baht...more or less? I would think this is worth more to you than a couple thousand baht.

Given what Beetlejuice said above, which all sounds fairly plausible, I would first have the police, as quietly as possible, get him and his belongings out. At the same time have them confiscate all the keys and cards from him. The police won't care about all that legal stuff and your guest won't have the means to sue you so this is the way I'd go. Now he is out. If he comes back and poses a problem...then you must move. Until you do, keep using your new found police friends and inform the management that he is unwanted.

Edited May 17, 2014 by oneday

[marko kok prong]

You could pretend you have turned gay,and taken a fancy to him,go out and buy a dress and some high heels ,when he comes home mince around ,blowing kisses etc,this could work,on the other it could backfire Dramatically,sorry it was all i could come up with- no pun intended by the way.

[Beetlejuice]

Go to the police explain the situation I am sure for a 1,000 baht the policeman will come around and chase him for you it is that easy, as soon as the guy is in your apartment call the policeman a few of my mates have used this tactic to get out of a sticky situation good luck

Total rubbish.

This is a civil matter as the OP first invited or permitted the guy to stay at his home.

Your opinions of the Thai police is a misconception and visiting the police offering to bribe them to break the law and illegally evict this guy without going via the proper legal process will land the OP in a lot of trouble, perhaps even doing jail time.

The OP first allowed this guy to stay at his home and this is now 100% his problem. He must either devise some ways of getting him out peacefully or have to deal with the consequences.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[Mac66]

Ordinary Thais would not let this happen. Come to that, ordinary farangs wouldn't stand for it either. 4 months is 4 months and 3 weeks too long. He's been taking the p1$$ (literally).

The story is almost unbelievable....and then you offer him money to leave? It should be short shrift. If you have money to offer him, use it instead to change the locks, write a letter to building management instructing them that under no circumstances should they allow him on to the property, or give him access to YOUR apartment, to tell him you have moved and put his stuff with the security guard, then go and have a holiday somewhere or at least stay at a hotel for a while.

Don't give in to this grifter/user/bum.

Cant disagree with anything you have said. I like a quiet life and have been avoiding the conflict and I am definite it will get unpleasant if I move his property and leave it in the carpark or in the condo driveway, property management would not agree with this at all. I will try your suggestion though and stay elsewhere for a week or so. Thanks

[Thaiberius]

Go to the police explain the situation I am sure for a 1,000 baht the policeman will come around and chase him for you it is that easy, as soon as the guy is in your apartment call the policeman a few of my mates have used this tactic to get out of a sticky situation good luck

Total rubbish.

This is a civil matter as the OP first invited or permitted the guy to stay at his home.

Your opinions of the Thai police is a misconception and visiting the police offering to bribe them to break the law and illegally evict this guy without going via the proper legal process will land the OP in a lot of trouble, perhaps even doing jail time.

The OP first allowed this guy to stay at his home and this is now 100% his problem. He must either devise some ways of getting him out peacefully or have to deal with the consequences.

Agreed, Kopite is in fantasy land believing everything he/she reads on these forums. If you turn up at your local police station clutching a nice crispy 1,000 baht note expecting to hire somebody with a uniform as your own private policeman will more than likely land you in hot water up to your neck. I don't think Kopite or any "mates" have ever done this and to even suggest it is irresponsible.

[Mac66]

So an acquaintance moves into the OP`s apartment, refuses to budge, eats and drinks at the pleasure of the OP and not paying anything towards a single bill, using the apartment as a drink and drug den, plus this has been going on for over 4 months.

The simple solution would be that if the OP goes out, is to throw out all his stuff and change the locks, but obviously there is much more to this than the OP is letting on, because no one can be this kind and so stupid.

The OP has 2 choices, either throw the guy out or put up with it, but if the OP does decide to throw the guy out, I advise that he first destroy any evidence of illegal drugs that maybe lying about the place.

The beetlejuice 2 golden rules for living a stress-free and peaceful life in Thailand: always keep a low profile and never get involved.

Good luck to all who sail in her.

No more to it other than I thought I was helping out on a very short term basis. I have asked from the very early days for him to get moving and have offered to pay his way to get him moving.

I live in a respectable building with mostly professional Thais. I am a quiet person and do not want to have conflict and I certainly don't want causing any physical altercations in the building to disturb my neighbours. I have asked security to stop him from coming in the building but this has not been successful as they sleep most of the time. I made an error in judgement by giving him a pass card to the front security door and the lift and my apartment. I have locked the door from the inside so he cannot get in after he has left and that only has him banging away at early hours disturbing other people. I feel embarrassed that my mistake is going to affect other people and I open the door to end the commotion. I admit I have been very stupid in this instance, never had a problem in Thailand in nearly 8 years.

I am not scared of him and I am sure if it came to a physical altercation I would not come off second best. I am just as sure that if I got physical with him that would not be an end to it and I do not want to be looking over my shoulder every time I leave the building. I have had suggestions by Thai friends but these are not avenues I would take.

Moving looks like the option. Thanks

You are contradicting yourself and it appears that you are scared of this guy.

You are perfectly within your rights, even under Thai law to throw this guy out of your home. He is not classified as a tenant but rather a guest who has over stayed his welcome. On the other hand if you have allowed this guy to bring his possessions into your home, store and use them there, then he could claim that he is your tenant, meaning throwing him out by force is not a legal option. Even if you move, you could be held responsible for the rent and bills and be accountable to the landlord for having someone else live on the premises without prior consent and contravening the renting agreement, plus liable to pay any legal fees or any other costs involved to the landlord if they need to legally evict this guy, including any damage caused to the property.

In my opinion no one in their right mind would allow anyone to squat in their home whilst the actual tenant is still living on the premises, that`s lunacy. Sorry but something s simply do not add up here, unless you are the most gullible fool in the Universe.

If during your association with this guy there has been other involvements with him that you`re not specifying then you may have problems.

Does your interpretation of moving mean running away and leaving the scene of a situation you have now lost control of?

No not sacred at all. Never liked being involved in a scene or dramas. I had been hoping he would heed my requests. I have Thai friends who have offered to deal with him and as appealing as this would be I know too well what they are talking about and it would no doubt end back up on my door step. Many times I have been at the point of losing my cool and exploding.

Gullible maybe. Not sure what you are suggesting as other involvements - I am not gay and I do not do drugs and never had, I have done nothing wrong that he could hold over my head.

Moving does not mean running away. End lease and have removal company empty the apartment and take some steps to ensure he is not in the apartment when I close the door behind me.

[Mac66]

Hello mac66

I am very sorry to read about your difficulties. You sound like a decent man whose good nature has been sorely abused. You have done nothing wrong to deserve this.

In your OP you say:

"I am also now of the understanding that prior to the wife moving back to Buriram they both took out loans and credit cards with Krungsi Bank and the move and finishing their jobs was to avoid paying the money back. I have this information from a mutual Thai friend who says my lodger finds it amusing he has been able to get away for the money. This would suggest to me that he has no intention of ever getting a job as the bank would be able to find him relatively quickly."

If the bank were to find out where he is living, do you, or indeed other TV readers, know what the legal consequences would be? If you owe money to a bank then under Thai law, will there be criminal as well as civil proceedings? Even if it is only a civil matter, any sort of contact from the bank may be enough to encourage him to make a quick exit.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Jukebox. I don't know the consequences of owing money here in Thailand. However this morning a colleague at work has told me he has the contact details for head of credit card security at Krungsi. He is going to speak to him see if there is an option for bank collections to pay a visit that may well scare him out. Thanks again.

[Mac66]

Why is the OP's writing style so similiar to more than a few other newbie posters over the last few months who just have a few (or no) posts, and then post a very long convoluted story almost too ridiculous to be true.

Just sayin'.

Thanks for you input.

[Seastallion]

Hello mac66

I am very sorry to read about your difficulties. You sound like a decent man whose good nature has been sorely abused. You have done nothing wrong to deserve this.

In your OP you say:

"I am also now of the understanding that prior to the wife moving back to Buriram they both took out loans and credit cards with Krungsi Bank and the move and finishing their jobs was to avoid paying the money back. I have this information from a mutual Thai friend who says my lodger finds it amusing he has been able to get away for the money. This would suggest to me that he has no intention of ever getting a job as the bank would be able to find him relatively quickly."

If the bank were to find out where he is living, do you, or indeed other TV readers, know what the legal consequences would be? If you owe money to a bank then under Thai law, will there be criminal as well as civil proceedings? Even if it is only a civil matter, any sort of contact from the bank may be enough to encourage him to make a quick exit.

Hope this helps.

This is good. Have repo guys chase him.

[Thaiberius]

Be careful the cuckoo in the nest isn't instigating another fraud using your address and therefore possibly involving you. Not exactly the same but I had an outwardly respectable tenant in a property I have a few years back who was responsible for fraudulently obtaining a large amount of money with the intention of returning to his home country. The police stopped him getting away with the money but also dragged me in for questioning as an absentee landlord. Not a pleasant experience. It is remarkably easy to clone somebodys identity using just the most basic of documentation. If he has access to your personal papers when you are out, beware.

[MJP]

Gets some ghost noise recordings and pipe that into the building

Yes. This is how to do it.

Also fake some ghost photos using long exposures and a bed sheet.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thaipod]

You should not have to move out of your appartment. Try telling him that you have your family coming from over seas to stay with you for a couple of months next week and insist he must leave withen the next couple of day's then start moving his belongings to the front door for him to move out, then ask him for his entry card so you can give it to tour family and inform the condo staff for the guard to refuse him access to the lift or enter the building