Jatuporn to propose referendum as way-out for political impasse

[webfact]

Jatuporn to propose referendum as way-out for political impasse

BANGKOK: -- Red-shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan said he would propose during a meeting of involved parties Thursday that a national referendum should be held for ending political impasse.

Jatuporn, chairman of the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship, said UDD leaders have reviewed their stand and believe that a referendum would be the best way-out.

The second meeting of all sides involved in the conflict would be held for the second time by Army Chief Prayuth Chan-ocha at the Peace and Order Maintaining Command at 2 pm Thursday.

Jatuporn said the UDD leaders saw that the election could be held right away so the public should be asked in a referendum whether they want to elect a new government before or after political reforms.

The red-shirt movement would respect the referendum's results, he said.


-- The Nation 2014-05-22

------------------

related:
Thaksin rejects Prayuth's proposal to have caretaker govt resign
The Nation

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/728228-thaksin-rejects-prayuths-proposal-to-have-caretaker-govt-resign/

[webfact]

Thai 'Red Shirts' want referendum on political impasse

BANGKOK, May 22, 2014 (AFP) - The leader of Thailand's pro-government "Red Shirt" movement called Thursday for a national referendum to resolve a political deadlock that prompted the army chief to declare martial law.

Jatuporn Prompan said he made the proposal a day earlier during closed-door talks between the kingdom's warring political camps that were ordered by army general Prayut Chan-O-Cha.

"Whatever the outcome is, we are ready to accept it (a referendum result)," Jatuporn said at a press conference.

"We are not extremists who don't listen to anything."

Further talks were set for Thursday at 2 pm (0700 GMT).

The referendum would ask Thai voters to decide on a key dispute between the Red Shirts and a virulent anti-government movement that has waged a debilitating protest campaign for seven months.

The Red Shirts want new national polls they hope will provide a fresh mandate to the beleaguered elected government.

But the anti-government protesters are demanding vague reforms first. The reforms are widely seen as a bid to cripple the political power of the

Red Shirt's hero, deposed former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

The opposing camps and other top political actors met for more than two hours of rare talks in Bangkok on Wednesday.

Prayut, 60, invoked martial law Tuesday, saying he acted to prevent political tensions spiralling out of control but insists he intends to broker a solution.

Some critics have branded the move a de facto coup, but even the pro-government Red Shirts have muted their criticism for now.

The political crisis broadly pits a Bangkok-based royalist elite and its backers against the billionaire family of Thaksin, who was ousted by the military in 2006 but still enjoys strong support particularly in rural northern Thailand.

Martial law gives the military wide power to ban public gatherings, restrict people's movements, conduct searches, impose curfews and detain suspects for up to seven days.

The military has ordered 14 satellite television stations to suspend broadcasts and has announced restrictions on social media content, to the alarm of human rights campaigners.

The move has barely caused a ripple in Bangkok, with life going on as normal.

But the army said police and military raids had seized four different caches of weapons in areas near the capital since martial law was imposed.

The weapons are suspected to have been gathered for the purpose of fomenting political violence, but it was not known who had collected them, army spokesman Colonel Winthai Suvaree told reporters.

"Officials are serious in cracking down on weapons to prevent any attacks," he said.

He rejected an allegation by Jatuporn that the weapons would be used by the military as a pretext for a wider crackdown.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-05-22

[kalbo123]

That would be very democratic, think the democrates dont like it.

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[webfact]

PM assigns Chaikasem to represent government in crucial meeting



BANGKOK: -- Acting Prime Minister Niwattumrong Boonsongpaisarn has designated caretaker Justice Minister Chaikasem Nitisiri to attend the second round of talks Thursday claiming he has other duty to perform on behalf of the prime minister.

He went to the Commerce Ministry to perform duties as commerce minister.

Mr Chaikasem said he would head the negotiation team today while Mr Pongsak Raktapongpaisarl, the energy minister, will be replaced by Mr Chadchat Sittipun, the transport minister.

He said his team was empowered to make decision as has been set in a guideline.

He also predicted the second talks would end inconclusively as conflicting groups might not get all their demands and needed more talks.

Meanwhile People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) leader Suthep Thaugsuban reiterated the People’s call for an interim prime minister with full power to resolve the political impasse and to reform the country.

He also called for the United Front for Democratic against Dictatorship (UDD) to participate in the reform, while telling political parties to keep off the reform.

The proposals were agreed upon during his meeting with provincial PDRC leaders this morning to find a common stand before attending the second round talks.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pm-assigns-chaikasem-represent-government-crucial-meeting/


-- Thai PBS 2014-05-22

[scorecard]

No, no, and no.

They cannot be trusted to not interfere.

[Scamper]

An initial referendum would be a likely meeting point between the sides. But Jatuporn's idea of a referendum where no reform suggestions are aired in it whatsoever is suspicious, because what allure is reform to the public if it's just reduced to a vague and undefined concept ? How can they affirm or reject something which is not defined in any way ? The idea is that the public either affirms or denies a set of reform proposals. To fully respect the public appraisal of reform is to put a reform package before them. Clearly, Jatuporn's suggestion would likely be embraced by Pheu Thai as a simple way to perpetuate the status quo. Therefore, it will likely be rejected by the Democratic party and the PDRC. Both those parties are likely to agree to a referendum, but only after proposals have already been finalized as a result of a consensus from all parties. Remember, all parties, including from Pheu Thai and the UDD. Remember, if the public doesn't like the resultant reform package, they can reject it in a referendum before they are ever implemented. What has Pheu Thai to lose from that ? ( The public may actually like the reform package ). If Jatuporn and Pheu Thai were truly interested in reform they would agree to put an actual reform package to the test of a national referendum, but of course it's the last thing they want to see, so they won't.

[smedly]

This is all well and good and something that I proposed myself a few weeks back

The problem just like an election - could it be carried out without vote buying - intimidation - village heads giving instructions

I highly doubt it

[Rob8891]

What a surprise Jatuporn and Surapong have come up with identical suggestions of a referendum. Oh the irony of it. There was never any such thought until PTP found their backs tight to the wall, but now, they are all for it. There is a strong whiff of desperation in the air......anything to prevent an appointed/temporary/neautral PM being put in place.

The biggest problems here being the time factor in organising a referendum, arguing over the wording and having something concrete in the way of reform proposals.....these problems bedevil all parties, not just the PTP/UDD side.....but Scamper has covered this while I was typing!

Skype must be going into meltdown as the afternoon meeting approaches.

On the plus side, it shows that people are beginning to think.....It would be a very foolhardy person who attended the meeting empty-handed....or even failed to attend.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Rob8891

[LivinLOS]

No, no, and no.

They cannot be trusted to not interfere.

The word your looking for is campaigning..

The Dems should try it sometime.

[webfact]

Abhisit to propose three measures, urge all stakeholders to sacrifice interests

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva will raise three proposals during the second round of seven-partite meeting Thursday, Democrat Party spokesman Chavanon Intharakomalsut said.

Chavanon said Abhisit would propose that all kind of violence must stop and there must be a blueprint for carrying out political reforms before and after the next election. Abhisit would also propose that there must be a system to guarantee that the next election would be clean and fair.

The spokesman added that Abhisit would also call on all stakeholders in the conflict to sacrifice their interests so that the impasse would be ended.

Abhisit wold also call on the caretaker government to resign so that the reform and election could take place, Chavanon said.


-- The Nation 2014-05-22

[djjamie]

"UDD leaders have reviewed their stand and believe that a referendum would be the best way-out"

​The stand they have reviewed is whether they can win a referendum. They would under no circumstances engage in a referendum if they thought they would lose it. The 2007 constitution referendum was a bitter pill to swallow for the UDD and PTP and their contempt for the majority that voted for it beggars belief. Mind you up to 90% did not vote for it in the UDD strongholds so they did try their hardest to squash it, but the southern and central provinces yearned accountability so it passed by 58% (or there about)

Rest assured that if this referendum does not suit the UDD agenda they will come out with excuses that are more akin to J.R Tolkien fantasy books.

I agree though and even though jatuporn came out with it at the end of the day it is up to the man that has achieved more in 3 days than the PTP have in 7 months. General Prayuth.

Time to accept the will of the majority Jatuporn, even if you don't like it.

Edited May 22, 2014 by djjamie

[webfact]

Suthep to reaffirm call for interim govt, reforms

BANGKOK: -- Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban said he will reaffirm the call for an interim government and political reforms during the second round of seven-partite meeting at 2 pm Thursday.

Suthep held a meeting with provincial leaders of the People's Democratic Reform Committee at the PDRC rally stage near the Democracy Monument at 11 am Thursday.

The meeting resolved to have Suthep propose during the meeting at the Army Club that a nonpartisan prime minister must be appointed to carry out reforms.


-- The Nation 2014-05-22

[djjamie]

"Abhisit would propose that all kind of violence must stop"

I wonder if the leader of the "United Front for 3rd hands," Jatuporn promises it will stop when this is mentioned in the meeting.

[Katipo]

We're saved!

[mijan24]

What a surprise Jatuporn and Surapong have come up with identical suggestions of a referendum. Oh the irony of it. There was never any such thought until PTP found their backs tight to the wall, but now, they are all for it. There is a strong whiff of desperation in the air......anything to prevent an appointed/temporary/neautral PM being put in place.

The biggest problems here being the time factor in organising a referendum, arguing over the wording and having something concrete in the way of reform proposals.....these problems bedevil all parties, not just the PTP/UDD side.....but Scamper has covered this while I was typing!

Skype must be going into meltdown as the afternoon meeting approaches.

On the plus side, it shows that people are beginning to think.....It would be a very foolhardy person who attended the meeting empty-handed....or even failed to attend.

An interesting post especially your last paagraph - only 3 or 4 posts early this from the Acting PM.

BANGKOK: -- Acting Prime Minister Niwattumrong Boonsongpaisarn has designated caretaker Justice Minister Chaikasem Nitisiri to attend the second round of talks Thursday claiming he has other duty to perform on behalf of the prime minister

[love1012]

This is all well and good and something that I proposed myself a few weeks back

The problem just like an election - could it be carried out without vote buying - intimidation - village heads giving instructions

I highly doubt it

I say give it a chance and the first time the red shirts bribe, intimidate and try to organise the result take it off the table. As soon as the instructions come from Dubai put it in the bin! Thais have a right to democracy without interference from anyone INCLUDING AND ESPECIALLY Dubai!!!

[love1012]

No, no, and no.

They cannot be trusted to not interfere.

The word your looking for is campaigning..

The Dems should try it sometime.

they no doubt would if they were allowed to stand without vio;lence or intimidation and bribery from the red shirts and Shinawatras!!

[RockyBeerbelly]

Does the PTP think these meetings are not important enough to send Niwattumrong?

Or is the acting-caretaker-PM doing his round of OTOP maybe?

Weird stuff.....

[Pimay1]

No, no, and no.

They cannot be trusted to not interfere.

The word your looking for is campaigning..

The Dems should try it sometime.

The Dems tried campaigning in the North. Their canvasser was shot dead in front of his house three days before the election. Of course no one has been arrested for the murder.

PTP and the red shirts should try free and fair elections sometime.

[h90]

That would be very democratic, think the democrates dont like it.

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Will be a bit expensive: 500 Baht per vote to vote no on the referendum, than another 1000 Baht per vote (thanks Buddha without reforms there are no strong laws against vote buying) to get the next Shinawatra family member in power and everything continues.

The whole point of the reforms is to get rid of vote buying and similar cheating

[h90]

Does the PTP think these meetings are not important enough to send Niwattumrong?

Or is the acting-caretaker-PM doing his round of OTOP maybe?

Weird stuff.....

I guess he don't care too much....and anyway he isn't the decision maker.

[RockyBeerbelly]

Call me bias, but so far Abhisit's proposal seems to be the most sensible and the best for the country.

[Fat Haggis]

So Abhisithas dropped the call for an Interim Government? and it's only Suthep who it asppears isn't changing his stance? ...wasn't this about compromise?

[webfact]

Suthep refuses to compromise, red shirts want referendum
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban said he will reaffirm his call for an interim government and political reforms during the second round of seven partite meeting scheduled for 2pm on Thursday.

Suthep held a meeting with provincial leaders of the People's Democratic Reform Committee at the PDRC rally stage near the Democracy Monument at 11 Thursday morning,

The meeting resolved to have Suthep inform the meeting that a non-partisan prime minister must be appointed to carry out reforms.

During the first round of discussions hosted by Army Chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha on Wednesday, representatives of the seven sides were asked to go back to consult with their followers as to the issues on which they could compromise and report back to the second round of meeting Thursday.

While Suthep refused to back down from his original stand, the red-shirts appeared to more willing to compromise by proposing a referendum.

Red-shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan said he would propose during the second meeting that a national referendum be held to end the political impasse.

Jatuporn, chairman of the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship, said UDD leaders have reviewed their stand and believe that a referendum would be the best way out.

Jatuporn said the UDD leaders felt that an election could be held right away thus the public should be asked through a referendum whether they wanted to elect a new government before or after political reforms.

The red-shirt movement would respect the referendum's results, he said.

Meanwhile, Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva will raise three proposals during the second meeting, Democrat Party spokesman Chavanon Intharakomalsut said.

Chavanon said Abhisit would propose an end to all kinds of violence and the drawing up of a blueprint for carrying out political reforms before and after the next election. Abhisit would also propose that a system be put in place to guarantee that the next election is clean and fair.

The spokesman added that Abhisit would also call on all stakeholders in the conflict to sacrifice their interests so that the impasse could come to an end.

Abhisit would also call on the caretaker government to resign so that the reform and election could take place, Chavanon said.

Election Commission Chairman Supachai Somcharoen said on Thursday that he welcomed the Army Chief's role as a mediator and in organising the talks.

Supachai said the EC would participate in the second round of talks.

He said he agreed with Prayuth's statement that the new election must not lead to violence and loss of lives.

The EC chairman said it would be up to the meeting whether to have the EC organise an election or a referendum on the political disputes.

After all sides reached an agreement, the EC would be ready to organise the new election, Supachai said.

-- The Nation 2014-05-22

[ramrod711]

No, no, and no.

They cannot be trusted to not interfere.

The word your looking for is campaigning..

The Dems should try it sometime.

You should stand with the Democrats when they campaign in the north, see how you like being bombarded with feces, bottles, bricks, stones, nuts, bolts and in one case that I witnessed a potted plant. No, you wouldn't do it, I wonder why?

[h90]

Does the PTP think these meetings are not important enough to send Niwattumrong?

Or is the acting-caretaker-PM doing his round of OTOP maybe?

Weird stuff.....

here it is, why should Niwattumrong come when his boss made already his mind:

Thaksin rejects Prayuth's proposal to have caretaker govt resign

May 22, 2014 2:26 pm

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra rejected the proposal by Army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha that the Pheu Thai-led caretaker government resign, a Pheu Thai source said on Thursday.

The source said Prayuth came up with three proposals during the seven-partite meeting on Wednesday. First, he proposed that a caretaker Cabinet to resign, secondly that an interim government be formed and thirdly, that both the red-shirt movement and the People's Democratic Reform Committee end their rallies, according to the source.

The Pheu Thai representatives duly informed Thaksin of the proposals but he rejected them all and told Pheu Thai to fight to the full extent possible within the legal framework.

The Nation

[Fat Haggis]

That would be very democratic, think the democrates dont like it.

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Will be a bit expensive: 500 Baht per vote to vote no on the referendum, than another 1000 Baht per vote (thanks Buddha without reforms there are no strong laws against vote buying) to get the next Shinawatra family member in power and everything continues.

The whole point of the reforms is to get rid of vote buying and similar cheating

Where are you getting these figures from reference the vote buying? as in the 500 baht and the 1000 baht from?

Are you not one of these "The Majority of the country are behind reforms and Suthep" followers? If you have the majority, what are you worried about vote buying for, as you have the majority!! .. Or are you more worried that power of the Baht, all 500 of it is more powerful than being in the "we are the majority" gang, and it goes to show that Thais have no morals or principles when it comes to money, and that for 500 baht, your "majority" will dissappear faster than Thaksin on a flight to Dubai???

[h90]

That would be very democratic, think the democrates dont like it.

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Will be a bit expensive: 500 Baht per vote to vote no on the referendum, than another 1000 Baht per vote (thanks Buddha without reforms there are no strong laws against vote buying) to get the next Shinawatra family member in power and everything continues.

The whole point of the reforms is to get rid of vote buying and similar cheating

Where are you getting these figures from reference the vote buying? as in the 500 baht and the 1000 baht from?

Are you not one of these "The Majority of the country are behind reforms and Suthep" followers? If you have the majority, what are you worried about vote buying for, as you have the majority!! .. Or are you more worried that power of the Baht, all 500 of it is more powerful than being in the "we are the majority" gang, and it goes to show that Thais have no morals or principles when it comes to money, and that for 500 baht, your "majority" will dissappear faster than Thaksin on a flight to Dubai???

No I am not one of these "The Majority of the country.....".

I think the majority of the country don't care about politics, and most of these who care, don't care too much.

Look at the demonstrations: Red shirts without payments can mobilize something like 3000-5000.

OK PDRC has a lot more people, but these want to get the Shinawatras out. If we would have a neutral or accepted PM and PDRC would demonstrate for reforms they would have not more than 3000 people.

The reform topic is just too technical.

[RockyBeerbelly]

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No, no, and no.

They cannot be trusted to not interfere.

The word your looking for is campaigning..

The Dems should try it sometime.

You should stand with the Democrats when they campaign in the north, see how you like being bombarded with feces, bottles, bricks, stones, nuts, bolts and in one case that I witnessed a potted plant. No, you wouldn't do it, I wonder why?

Being bombarded with feces, bottles, bricks, stones, nuts and bolts are the democratic principles of the UDD gestapo. Freedom of expression they call that amongst the Shinawatra crime family.

[rubl]

That would be very democratic, think the democrates dont like it.

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That would be ignoring all problems and causes. Very dumb.

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