Several retired senior police officers summoned in move to curb influence

[AleG]

Disappointing to see so many TV members support the removal of the constitution, human rights, freedom of speech, press and protest, in the face of world wide condemnation.

The only mention to those issues and the supposed supporters is on your post, a clear example of a strawman argument.

Why don't you mention the topic of this thread, the removal of Thaksin's network controlling the police force? Do you think that was good for the country? having law enforcement working for one man and his crooked clan instead than working for society as a whole?

[AleG]

More and more, it is becoming apparent that the Thaksin structure and underpinnings are being dismantled.

Yes the army is trying to prevent terrorism by the reds, I am happy they do so, imagine bombs going off in Bangkok targeting innocent people. The reds have shown time and again that they are violent so a preemptive strike like this may have prevent a lot of trouble.

I wonder how many from the red posters would support an armed uprising. I am curious about that one.

Imagine schzmagine, you just have to read the news from the past several months, no need to use the imagination!

[The Deerhunter]

Disappointing to see so many TV members support the removal of the constitution, human rights, freedom of speech, press and protest, in the face of world wide condemnation.

And that's not all we support the removal of.. And, 4 days after Mr Yim's post, the general seems to be getting through the list quite nicely. Mr Yim, I suggest you sit back and enjoy the ride,. unless you have personal reasons to be nervous, of course..............

[Gweiloman]

It is interesting that those posters whom, not so long ago, were critical of the apparent lack of checks and balances under the PT government now seems to celebrate the complete absence of any (checks and balances).

[EyesWideOpen]

Seems like a lot of TV posters are really happy with things now that the general has taken control. For all your talk of how the Shinawatra family and those around them have raped the country, none of you are really in the know about anything that goes on. Most of the allegations made by you people are nothing more than the rumor mill that goes around and around and around. While I am not at all of the belief that things have not happened which were dishonest, deceitful, and corrupt, how is it you seem to believe that the PDRC, Democrats, or Army generals are any better? How many poor generals do you know? Where did Suthep get his money? You are so happy that the general is going after people supporting the PTP, you are oblivious to the fact that the general has rounded up a large group of people without warrant and without lawful justification, had detained them in a manner which in any other country would be unlawful. Probably okay with you if he shoots them too. I would not be so happy at the course of events just because you dislike the Shinawatras, PTP, Reds or whomever. You all forget how the Democrats came to power under dubious means, how the government of Ahbisit caused the death of over a hundred people. There is almost glee among the anti-Thaksin bunch here and it's all okay because the general is against the side you vehemently hate so much. Doesn't matter that the man dissolved the senate, put aside the constitution and with military power just took over everything. That is interesting thinking to me. So much for the rule of law as long as it is for the "right" side.

The King of Thailand has just given his blessing to General Prayuth. What does that mean to you ?

Do you work in some sort of red shirt defense internet boiler room ? Anyone who actually lives here and understands the harm Thaksin and his puppets have inflicted upon the country has absolute contempt for him. Which includes a whole lot of TV people, and myself...

Edited May 28, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[baboon]

Disappointing to see so many TV members support the removal of the constitution, human rights, freedom of speech, press and protest, in the face of world wide condemnation.

Extreme conditions require an extreme response. Are you seriously saying that just on principle, you would like to see the continued raping of the country by the Shinawatra family and friends and the continued corruption of police and others? Also the continued chaos, injuries and deaths caused by the warring political factions? And do you really believe that human rights and the constitution were being upheld by Yingluck and her cronies?

And do you think a series of rhetorical questions further the debate?

Do you not think you could save resources just by posting 'No. I am right and you are wrong. End of discussion'?

[northernjohn]

Why don't these people just retire gracefully and prune their roses like other old men do ? Until all these old farts are removed from the political scene to be replaced by young men with fresh idea's, this country will never move forward in a constructive way.

I believe that is what is happening now. Thailand is being given a chance to be great. I have never served in the armed forces in any country but I salute what the General has done and is trying to do.

[beautifulthailand99]

For Thaksin, the Thai police were like the Gestapo, acting as his enforcement arm and revenue

collection. Clearly Prayuth knows this, and will start trimming at the roots of the tree....

If he is able to rein in the cancerous mafia of the Thai police, Thai people will indeed sing

his praises.....

I invoke Godwin's Law ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[BigC]

Disappointing to see so many TV members support the removal of the constitution, human rights, freedom of speech, press and protest, in the face of world wide condemnation.

Funny how the media in the west are pro coup in Ukraine but not in Thailand

Double standards

In other words it can be justified as long as it is in the interests of the west such as America

I am sure if Thailand were anti Russian then America would give its full support

Just think of it this way, if Taksin had not included himself in the amnesty this all would not have happened. The poor 2010 red protesters would be free now. But no PTP wanted to have it all.

Ad to that the power misuse and corruption and this is the best thing.

The world condemns this because they think that Thai democracy is like their democracy, it is not. It is riddled with power abuse and nepotism and corruption by the PTP if they really studied it they would come to the same conclusion many of the smarter TV posters have come too.

If there is an other red government and they don't try to remove checks and balances don't try to remove civil servants and with nepotism get their man in place and play honest with less corruption I am all for it. But as the leader is the most corrupt money hungry guy alive this wont happen unless checks and balances are made stronger.

Sorry PTP Taksin brought this on your head.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[beautifulthailand99]

[EyesWideOpen]

For Thaksin, the Thai police were like the Gestapo, acting as his enforcement arm and revenue

collection. Clearly Prayuth knows this, and will start trimming at the roots of the tree....

If he is able to rein in the cancerous mafia of the Thai police, Thai people will indeed sing

his praises.....

I invoke Godwin's Law ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Haha nice one !! I learn something every day. However my point of view is still valid, as

the police were doing whatever Thaksin wanted them to do. I personally witnessed one

of the executions by the police during the " war on drugs" program instituted by Thaksin,

so perhaps I have a dimmer view than most people here....

[EyesWideOpen]

Actually the simple usage of odds would certainly indicate there should be a few tough

people on TV.......

[beautifulthailand99]

Actually the simple usage of odds would certainly indicate there should be a few tough

people on TV.......

You're right some must be going to those gyms that are continuously blaring out advertisements for lifetime memberships the gyms in Pattaya.I wouldn't mess with those guys. But they are probably too busy working out and bangin' the babes to be spending much time here ! Might is of course right as current circumstances confirm.

[phutoie2]

For Thaksin, the Thai police were like the Gestapo, acting as his enforcement arm and revenue

collection. Clearly Prayuth knows this, and will start trimming at the roots of the tree....

If he is able to rein in the cancerous mafia of the Thai police, Thai people will indeed sing

his praises.....

I invoke Godwin's Law ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Haha nice one !! I learn something every day. However my point of view is still valid, as

the police were doing whatever Thaksin wanted them to do. I personally witnessed one

of the executions by the police during the " war on drugs" program instituted by Thaksin,

so perhaps I have a dimmer view than most people here....

big deal, we had a soi of the scumbags taken out in this town by the BIB, the place has been never better.

Please do not include me in your amateur survey on who is supporting who. Looks like we are all going to be living under the junta for some time.

[beautifulthailand99]

For Thaksin, the Thai police were like the Gestapo, acting as his enforcement arm and revenue

collection. Clearly Prayuth knows this, and will start trimming at the roots of the tree....

If he is able to rein in the cancerous mafia of the Thai police, Thai people will indeed sing

his praises.....

I invoke Godwin's Law ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Haha nice one !! I learn something every day. However my point of view is still valid, as

the police were doing whatever Thaksin wanted them to do. I personally witnessed one

of the executions by the police during the " war on drugs" program instituted by Thaksin,

so perhaps I have a dimmer view than most people here....

big deal, we had a soi of the scumbags taken out in this town by the BIB, the place has been never better.

Please do not include me in your amateur survey on who is supporting who. Looks like we are all going to be living under the junta for some time.

As His Majesty quite rightly publically pointed out in his 2003 Birthday Speech "Victory in the War on Drugs is good. They may blame the crackdown for more than 2,500 deaths, but this is a small price to pay. If the prime minister failed to curb [the drug trade], over the years the number of deaths would easily surpass this toll".

[EyesWideOpen]

As His Majesty quite rightly publically pointed out in his 2003 Birthday Speech "Victory in the War on Drugs is good. They may blame the crackdown for more than 2,500 deaths, but this is a small price to pay. If the prime minister failed to curb [the drug trade], over the years the number of deaths would easily surpass this toll".

I had not heard that before, an interesting point of view. I suspect current drug use in the kingdom is higher than in 2003, so that make the " war on drugs" a failure. Besides , I believe the police are heavily involved in the drug trade, so a lot of people thought the " war on drugs" was mostly about cleaning out the completion. There are countless stories about the police being in the drug trade, here is just one of them....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/homeTwo-police-among-drug-arrests-30188134.html

[rametindallas]

Disappointing to see so many TV members support the removal of the constitution, human rights, freedom of speech, press and protest, in the face of world wide condemnation.

It's OK. Thaksin and his puppet government weren't using them anyway.

[rametindallas]

Disappointing to see so many TV members support the removal of the constitution, human rights, freedom of speech, press and protest, in the face of world wide condemnation.

Just think of it this way, if Taksin had not included himself in the amnesty this all would not have happened. The poor 2010 red protesters would be free now. But no PTP wanted to have it all.

Ad to that the power misuse and corruption and this is the best thing.

The world condemns this because they think that Thai democracy is like their democracy, it is not. It is riddled with power abuse and nepotism and corruption by the PTP if they really studied it they would come to the same conclusion many of the smarter TV posters have come too.

If there is an other red government and they don't try to remove checks and balances don't try to remove civil servants and with nepotism get their man in place and play honest with less corruption I am all for it. But as the leader is the most corrupt money hungry guy alive this wont happen unless checks and balances are made stronger.

Sorry PTP Taksin brought this on your head.

The attempted amnesty bill was shouted down and defeated...as it should have been. The removal of a civil servant for political reasons was ruled wrong by the courts and the man restored to his position...as it should have been. So, the checks and balances in the system worked in these instances. Nepotism is the name of the game in Thailand, wish it were less, I agree with you, the checks and balances need to be stronger.

I take a step further back, Thaksin would not have happened had the wealthy initiated a fairer distribution of government projects and funding outside of Bangkok. That was the cause of Thaksin's election and re-election ( OK, with substantial help from the political manuvering by Thaksin's first administration). You have to give the devil his due, as previously pointed out he made reforms benefitting a vast number of Thai citizens. Buying votes? Or dealing seriously with the needs of the people. Political goals were part of these moves? Undoubtedly, but needs of the people ended up being addressed. Unfortunately, he, like so many before him in history got caught up in the idea that only he had the answers and he overstepped.

Either you have surmised wrongly or someone has told you wrongly how Thaksin came to political power. Thailand has many remnants of the old feudal system and one of them is the client/patron system of village heads and the villagers, district heads and the village head, provincial heads and the district heads. What Dr. Thaksin did was buy off the provincial, and district heads and fund them to buy off the village heads. Any villager who wants city services needs to cooperate with the village head. This gives the village head enormous influence among the villagers. Their votes need to show their loyalty to the village heads. After that, Dr. Thaksin initiated a million Baht village fund for tens of thousands of villages and the villagers were told it came from Thaksin's own wealth (great way to use the public treasury to instill loyalty), he took a Democrat plan for cheap, government health care and mad it his own. He handed out thousand Baht notes whenever he visited villages. He became their patron. With this loyal base behind him, and with the collusion of other corrupt political parties, Thaksin began systematically looting the country, dis-empowering the NGOs, intimidating the press through outrageously high lawsuits, eliminating oversight, and consolidating power in a way that only army-backed coup generals had before him.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

[rametindallas]

Seems like a lot of TV posters are really happy with things now that the general has taken control. For all your talk of how the Shinawatra family and those around them have raped the country, none of you are really in the know about anything that goes on. Most of the allegations made by you people are nothing more than the rumor mill that goes around and around and around. While I am not at all of the belief that things have not happened which were dishonest, deceitful, and corrupt, how is it you seem to believe that the PDRC, Democrats, or Army generals are any better? How many poor generals do you know? Where did Suthep get his money? You are so happy that the general is going after people supporting the PTP, you are oblivious to the fact that the general has rounded up a large group of people without warrant and without lawful justification, had detained them in a manner which in any other country would be unlawful. Probably okay with you if he shoots them too. I would not be so happy at the course of events just because you dislike the Shinawatras, PTP, Reds or whomever. You all forget how the Democrats came to power under dubious means, how the government of Ahbisit caused the death of over a hundred people. There is almost glee among the anti-Thaksin bunch here and it's all okay because the general is against the side you vehemently hate so much. Doesn't matter that the man dissolved the senate, put aside the constitution and with military power just took over everything. That is interesting thinking to me. So much for the rule of law as long as it is for the "right" side.

Us? You seem to be just fine with a string of puppet governments, voting in lockstep, run by a fugitive, convicted felon from Dubai via Skype. Yeah, that's the epitome of a modern democracy. \sarc

[rametindallas]

It is interesting that those posters whom, not so long ago, were critical of the apparent lack of checks and balances under the PT government now seems to celebrate the complete absence of any (checks and balances).

The army hasn't broken my trust the way Thaksin and his puppet governments have.

[cloghead]

Disappointing to see so many TV members support the removal of the constitution, human rights, freedom of speech, press and protest, in the face of world wide condemnation.

Just think of it this way, if Taksin had not included himself in the amnesty this all would not have happened. The poor 2010 red protesters would be free now. But no PTP wanted to have it all.

Ad to that the power misuse and corruption and this is the best thing.

The world condemns this because they think that Thai democracy is like their democracy, it is not. It is riddled with power abuse and nepotism and corruption by the PTP if they really studied it they would come to the same conclusion many of the smarter TV posters have come too.

If there is an other red government and they don't try to remove checks and balances don't try to remove civil servants and with nepotism get their man in place and play honest with less corruption I am all for it. But as the leader is the most corrupt money hungry guy alive this wont happen unless checks and balances are made stronger.

Sorry PTP Taksin brought this on your head.

The attempted amnesty bill was shouted down and defeated...as it should have been. The removal of a civil servant for political reasons was ruled wrong by the courts and the man restored to his position...as it should have been. So, the checks and balances in the system worked in these instances. Nepotism is the name of the game in Thailand, wish it were less, I agree with you, the checks and balances need to be stronger.

I take a step further back, Thaksin would not have happened had the wealthy initiated a fairer distribution of government projects and funding outside of Bangkok. That was the cause of Thaksin's election and re-election ( OK, with substantial help from the political manuvering by Thaksin's first administration). You have to give the devil his due, as previously pointed out he made reforms benefitting a vast number of Thai citizens. Buying votes? Or dealing seriously with the needs of the people. Political goals were part of these moves? Undoubtedly, but needs of the people ended up being addressed. Unfortunately, he, like so many before him in history got caught up in the idea that only he had the answers and he overstepped.

Either you have surmised wrongly or someone has told you wrongly how Thaksin came to political power. Thailand has many remnants of the old feudal system and one of them is the client/patron system of village heads and the villagers, district heads and the village head, provincial heads and the district heads. What Dr. Thaksin did was buy off the provincial, and district heads and fund them to buy off the village heads. Any villager who wants city services needs to cooperate with the village head. This gives the village head enormous influence among the villagers. Their votes need to show their loyalty to the village heads. After that, Dr. Thaksin initiated a million Baht village fund for tens of thousands of villages and the villagers were told it came from Thaksin's own wealth (great way to use the public treasury to instill loyalty), he took a Democrat plan for cheap, government health care and mad it his own. He handed out thousand Baht notes whenever he visited villages. He became their patron. With this loyal base behind him, and with the collusion of other corrupt political parties, Thaksin began systematically looting the country, dis-empowering the NGOs, intimidating the press through outrageously high lawsuits, eliminating oversight, and consolidating power in a way that only army-backed coup generals had before him.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

Right on, dallas. Dr T took Cliff Notes from Dick Cheney's playbook. He pretty much replicated all of the Dark Prince's moves

And who sez he didn't learn nothing at East Kentucky and Sam Houston State Uni's???

[EyesWideOpen]

Either you have surmised wrongly or someone has told you wrongly how Thaksin came to political power. Thailand has many remnants of the old feudal system and one of them is the client/patron system of village heads and the villagers, district heads and the village head, provincial heads and the district heads. What Dr. Thaksin did was buy off the provincial, and district heads and fund them to buy off the village heads. Any villager who wants city services needs to cooperate with the village head. This gives the village head enormous influence among the villagers. Their votes need to show their loyalty to the village heads. After that, Dr. Thaksin initiated a million Baht village fund for tens of thousands of villages and the villagers were told it came from Thaksin's own wealth (great way to use the public treasury to instill loyalty), he took a Democrat plan for cheap, government health care and mad it his own. He handed out thousand Baht notes whenever he visited villages. He became their patron. With this loyal base behind him, and with the collusion of other corrupt political parties, Thaksin began systematically looting the country, dis-empowering the NGOs, intimidating the press through outrageously high lawsuits, eliminating oversight, and consolidating power in a way that only army-backed coup generals had before him.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

Right on, dallas. Dr T took Cliff Notes from Dick Cheney's playbook. He pretty much replicated all of the Dark Prince's moves

And who sez he didn't learn nothing at East Kentucky and Sam Houston State Uni's???

I personally believe that Thaksin has carefully studied the Perons in Argentinian, and how

they took the concept of populism to the final level. Fling cash out of cars, everybody loves

you, then start systematically looting the country.

[animatic]

Disappointing to see so many TV members support the removal of the constitution, human rights, freedom of speech, press and protest, in the face of world wide condemnation.

Just think of it this way, if Taksin had not included himself in the amnesty this all would not have happened. The poor 2010 red protesters would be free now. But no PTP wanted to have it all.

Ad to that the power misuse and corruption and this is the best thing.

The world condemns this because they think that Thai democracy is like their democracy, it is not. It is riddled with power abuse and nepotism and corruption by the PTP if they really studied it they would come to the same conclusion many of the smarter TV posters have come too.

If there is an other red government and they don't try to remove checks and balances don't try to remove civil servants and with nepotism get their man in place and play honest with less corruption I am all for it. But as the leader is the most corrupt money hungry guy alive this wont happen unless checks and balances are made stronger.

Sorry PTP Taksin brought this on your head.

The attempted amnesty bill was shouted down and defeated...as it should have been. The removal of a civil servant for political reasons was ruled wrong by the courts and the man restored to his position...as it should have been. So, the checks and balances in the system worked in these instances. Nepotism is the name of the game in Thailand, wish it were less, I agree with you, the checks and balances need to be stronger.

I take a step further back, Thaksin would not have happened had the wealthy initiated a fairer distribution of government projects and funding outside of Bangkok. That was the cause of Thaksin's election and re-election ( OK, with substantial help from the political manuvering by Thaksin's first administration). You have to give the devil his due, as previously pointed out he made reforms benefitting a vast number of Thai citizens. Buying votes? Or dealing seriously with the needs of the people. Political goals were part of these moves? Undoubtedly, but needs of the people ended up being addressed. Unfortunately, he, like so many before him in history got caught up in the idea that only he had the answers and he overstepped.

Either you have surmised wrongly or someone has told you wrongly how Thaksin came to political power. Thailand has many remnants of the old feudal system and one of them is the client/patron system of village heads and the villagers, district heads and the village head, provincial heads and the district heads. What Dr. Thaksin did was buy off the provincial, and district heads and fund them to buy off the village heads. Any villager who wants city services needs to cooperate with the village head. This gives the village head enormous influence among the villagers. Their votes need to show their loyalty to the village heads. After that, Dr. Thaksin initiated a million Baht village fund for tens of thousands of villages and the villagers were told it came from Thaksin's own wealth (great way to use the public treasury to instill loyalty), he took a Democrat plan for cheap, government health care and mad it his own. He handed out thousand Baht notes whenever he visited villages. He became their patron. With this loyal base behind him, and with the collusion of other corrupt political parties, Thaksin began systematically looting the country, dis-empowering the NGOs, intimidating the press through outrageously high lawsuits, eliminating oversight, and consolidating power in a way that only army-backed coup generals had before him.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power

Perfectly put:

A modern, amoral demagogue, used the the fundal system and found an untapped, ignored route to power.

Using an ignore demographic he found numbers to take power, but the legend he built was a chimera.

And the only thing that has proved to the people of Issan that " the emperor had no clothes",

was the complete collapse of the rice scheme, it was a massive con job at public expense,

that could ONLY work in good times and bankrupted the country in bad times.

They gave him and his puppets just enough rope in the last 2.5 years, to hang themselves in the eyes of their base of up country farmers. We are now seeing the dismantling and removal of his information and patronage control mechanism, the police underlings passing the graft up stream to his coffers, and the neutering of his red shirt street action branch. There will be blips during the process, but as the last coup did not do the dismantling, imagining like past Thai despots Thaksin would go to ground for 15 years and return as elder statesmen, he didn't and this is the redo chance to force him out of the game.

His lose, by some, has been seen as a loss for the poor, but his misanthropy has caused a lose for them substantially, and now that they are seen by all as the potential and power they are, they can and will no longer be ignored. Being ignored in the past is the cudgel that has been used by the reds as a lever to bring in numbers, but Pandoras Box is opened and will not close. Remove this Shinawatra clan cancer from Thailand, and all will prosper again. And the poor much more from before, in reality, not a faux legend of a demagogue who harnessed their votes with lies and a world class con job.

But I digress.

Chock dee Thailand, best of luck moving forward finally.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[taiwanatoa]

Why don't these people just retire gracefully and prune their roses like other old men do ? Until all these old farts are removed from the political scene to be replaced by young men with fresh idea's, this country will never move forward in a constructive way.

"young men with fresh idea's,"

Oh yes, you young men are always so full of fresh ideas (wink wink).

No, but you ARE full of something else if you fall for such meaningless nonsense.

Edited May 29, 2014 by taiwanatoa

[Jay Sata]

Poor old Thaksin.

In his blindness for power and face he lost both.

All his money is now worthless as he is trapped in a gilded cage with no prospect to return to his homeland and enjoy his vast wealth and family.

He faces old age as the man who had it all and lost.

[AleG]

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

Right on, dallas. Dr T took Cliff Notes from Dick Cheney's playbook. He pretty much replicated all of the Dark Prince's moves

And who sez he didn't learn nothing at East Kentucky and Sam Houston State Uni's???

I personally believe that Thaksin has carefully studied the Perons in Argentinian, and how

they took the concept of populism to the final level. Fling cash out of cars, everybody loves

you, then start systematically looting the country.

I think you give him too much credit. However I'm sure the multiple PR firms he employs are well aware of the tactics of Peron and his historical ilk; as well as well versed in modern propaganda and perception management techniques.

[wwest5829]

Disappointing to see so many TV members support the removal of the constitution, human rights, freedom of speech, press and protest, in the face of world wide condemnation.

Just think of it this way, if Taksin had not included himself in the amnesty this all would not have happened. The poor 2010 red protesters would be free now. But no PTP wanted to have it all.

Ad to that the power misuse and corruption and this is the best thing.

The world condemns this because they think that Thai democracy is like their democracy, it is not. It is riddled with power abuse and nepotism and corruption by the PTP if they really studied it they would come to the same conclusion many of the smarter TV posters have come too.

If there is an other red government and they don't try to remove checks and balances don't try to remove civil servants and with nepotism get their man in place and play honest with less corruption I am all for it. But as the leader is the most corrupt money hungry guy alive this wont happen unless checks and balances are made stronger.

Sorry PTP Taksin brought this on your head.

The attempted amnesty bill was shouted down and defeated...as it should have been. The removal of a civil servant for political reasons was ruled wrong by the courts and the man restored to his position...as it should have been. So, the checks and balances in the system worked in these instances. Nepotism is the name of the game in Thailand, wish it were less, I agree with you, the checks and balances need to be stronger.

I take a step further back, Thaksin would not have happened had the wealthy initiated a fairer distribution of government projects and funding outside of Bangkok. That was the cause of Thaksin's election and re-election ( OK, with substantial help from the political manuvering by Thaksin's first administration). You have to give the devil his due, as previously pointed out he made reforms benefitting a vast number of Thai citizens. Buying votes? Or dealing seriously with the needs of the people. Political goals were part of these moves? Undoubtedly, but needs of the people ended up being addressed. Unfortunately, he, like so many before him in history got caught up in the idea that only he had the answers and he overstepped.

Either you have surmised wrongly or someone has told you wrongly how Thaksin came to political power. Thailand has many remnants of the old feudal system and one of them is the client/patron system of village heads and the villagers, district heads and the village head, provincial heads and the district heads. What Dr. Thaksin did was buy off the provincial, and district heads and fund them to buy off the village heads. Any villager who wants city services needs to cooperate with the village head. This gives the village head enormous influence among the villagers. Their votes need to show their loyalty to the village heads. After that, Dr. Thaksin initiated a million Baht village fund for tens of thousands of villages and the villagers were told it came from Thaksin's own wealth (great way to use the public treasury to instill loyalty), he took a Democrat plan for cheap, government health care and mad it his own. He handed out thousand Baht notes whenever he visited villages. He became their patron. With this loyal base behind him, and with the collusion of other corrupt political parties, Thaksin began systematically looting the country, dis-empowering the NGOs, intimidating the press through outrageously high lawsuits, eliminating oversight, and consolidating power in a way that only army-backed coup generals had before him.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Too often we see only short nonsensical replies here on TV. I apologise for taking some time in replying. I wished to give some thought to your words. I think we agree that Thaksin returning to Thai politics would not serve the Thai people best. I agree with Khun Surathian when he observed, “Such absolute power has a tendency to eat away at that person’s good qualities….then one day…he will change into a bad manager who is a threat to his organisation, and will ultimately have to be driven out”. (Surathian, 2003)

I did watch the Youtube video you cited. I find no surprises. As you covered, patronage and vote buying has been long ingrained in Thailand. Dr. Thaksin, however, raised political organisation to new levels. I give the devil his due, Thaksin promised much to gain votes, as many others had done before him. A large difference was that he delivered more to the people outside Bangkok than ever had been done before. I do not disagree with you some of these later ideas for subsidising rice or rubber or first car purchase (the latter to give a jump start to the car industry severely hit by the 2011 floods), were not well thought out nor implemented. As regards the “Democrat plan for cheap, gov’t health care”, an idea is only a dream unless brought into fruition. No previous gov’t had instituted the plan, Thaksin did. Overall my reading and study over the last 7 years has led me to be able to see both the positives and negatives of Dr. Thaksin’s unprecedented popularity and policies while in office. I will continuing my reading of Thailand’s history and society as there is still much to learn. Again, we no doubt agree that Thailand is better off with Dr. Thaksin out of Thailand. We may disagree on his historic role and importance of moving Thailand ahead to address the needs of the vast majority of the Thai people.

[rametindallas]

The attempted amnesty bill was shouted down and defeated...as it should have been. The removal of a civil servant for political reasons was ruled wrong by the courts and the man restored to his position...as it should have been. So, the checks and balances in the system worked in these instances. Nepotism is the name of the game in Thailand, wish it were less, I agree with you, the checks and balances need to be stronger.

I take a step further back, Thaksin would not have happened had the wealthy initiated a fairer distribution of government projects and funding outside of Bangkok. That was the cause of Thaksin's election and re-election ( OK, with substantial help from the political manuvering by Thaksin's first administration). You have to give the devil his due, as previously pointed out he made reforms benefitting a vast number of Thai citizens. Buying votes? Or dealing seriously with the needs of the people. Political goals were part of these moves? Undoubtedly, but needs of the people ended up being addressed. Unfortunately, he, like so many before him in history got caught up in the idea that only he had the answers and he overstepped.

Either you have surmised wrongly or someone has told you wrongly how Thaksin came to political power. Thailand has many remnants of the old feudal system and one of them is the client/patron system of village heads and the villagers, district heads and the village head, provincial heads and the district heads. What Dr. Thaksin did was buy off the provincial, and district heads and fund them to buy off the village heads. Any villager who wants city services needs to cooperate with the village head. This gives the village head enormous influence among the villagers. Their votes need to show their loyalty to the village heads. After that, Dr. Thaksin initiated a million Baht village fund for tens of thousands of villages and the villagers were told it came from Thaksin's own wealth (great way to use the public treasury to instill loyalty), he took a Democrat plan for cheap, government health care and mad it his own. He handed out thousand Baht notes whenever he visited villages. He became their patron. With this loyal base behind him, and with the collusion of other corrupt political parties, Thaksin began systematically looting the country, dis-empowering the NGOs, intimidating the press through outrageously high lawsuits, eliminating oversight, and consolidating power in a way that only army-backed coup generals had before him.

How Thai tycoon Thaksin bought his way to power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KEwNQMQrw

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Too often we see only short nonsensical replies here on TV. I apologise for taking some time in replying. I wished to give some thought to your words. I think we agree that Thaksin returning to Thai politics would not serve the Thai people best. I agree with Khun Surathian when he observed, “Such absolute power has a tendency to eat away at that person’s good qualities….then one day…he will change into a bad manager who is a threat to his organisation, and will ultimately have to be driven out”. (Surathian, 2003)

I did watch the Youtube video you cited. I find no surprises. As you covered, patronage and vote buying has been long ingrained in Thailand. Dr. Thaksin, however, raised political organisation to new levels. I give the devil his due, Thaksin promised much to gain votes, as many others had done before him. A large difference was that he delivered more to the people outside Bangkok than ever had been done before. I do not disagree with you some of these later ideas for subsidising rice or rubber or first car purchase (the latter to give a jump start to the car industry severely hit by the 2011 floods), were not well thought out nor implemented. As regards the “Democrat plan for cheap, gov’t health care”, an idea is only a dream unless brought into fruition. No previous gov’t had instituted the plan, Thaksin did. Overall my reading and study over the last 7 years has led me to be able to see both the positives and negatives of Dr. Thaksin’s unprecedented popularity and policies while in office. I will continuing my reading of Thailand’s history and society as there is still much to learn. Again, we no doubt agree that Thailand is better off with Dr. Thaksin out of Thailand. We may disagree on his historic role and importance of moving Thailand ahead to address the needs of the vast majority of the Thai people.

Thaksin really was a decent fellow (for a politician) when he became PM but he was unable to handle that strong drink called power. I have a dear friend who was a close associate of Dr. Thaksin from his police days, knows and done business with his brother, and visited him in HK as recently as last March. He is loyal to his friend, Dr. T to a fault, which is the honorable way to be if you are Thai. We have had many frank conversations about Dr. Thaksin. There is no disagreement that Thaksin has changed. With money comes power and power, in Thailand, gets you even more money. Thaksin fell under the power of the devil named Greed. He also envied the power of his neighbor Hun Sen who also distorted democracy.He simply reached too far, too fast, both in 2005 (tax free sale of 49%+++ of ShinCorp to foreigners) and in 2013 (blanket Amnesty Bill). The 2006 coup caused him great loss of face from which there was only one way to recover; return in triumph. History has now made this impossible. If he were to disengage himself from all political machinations in Thailand for a few years, he could, as the infamous Richard Nixon did, rehabilitate his reputation and return to Thailand as an elder statesman. Many former, and even the once disgraced, PMs enjoy that status in Thailand today.

Despite Thaksin's huge voter base, he made three serious sets of enemies during his tenure as PM. First the supporters of the Royal Household believed (rightly or wrongly) that he wanted to displace the king as head of state and turn Thailand into a Republic. Secondly, he was perceived (rightly or wrongly) as raising corruption and nepotism to a level Thailand had not witnessed before, and Third, he threatened the long-term influence of the amataya who own this country's wealth and felt he was stealing their birthright (rightly or wrongly). He simply made too many enemies for popular vote to overcome. Twice he dissolved Parliament (the second time through his sister) intending to use the popular vote to give him a new mandate and twice the opposition Democrats blocked him by boycotting the elections and prevented him from getting a new mandate. Those dissolutions were his biggest mistakes, IMO, if he wanted to retain power. Ironically, the first man to win two elections in a row is also the first man to be overthrown by the military twice (second time by proxy). He can come back to Thailand but he cannot come back to power ever again. It would be too violent and would rip Thailand apart if he tried. Read my post #87 to see my vision of the future for Thailand

^{http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/729935-technical-glitch-blamed-for-facebook-blocking-thailand/page-4}

[Robby nz]

While on curbing influence. I see in the news that after being released by the military one of the North's 'leaders' has said he will now retire from politics and enjoy life.

Enjoy life with the millions he has earned as a political activist which would appear to be a very lucrative profession in this country given that others have also reached the millionaire state of financial comfort while engaged in that profession, one even being able to start his own airline.

But then I suppose you must have the correct boss.

Could it be that there were words of wisdom spoken while he was a guest of the army that helped to influence that decision ?

Or could it be that like his benefactor who has said on many occasions he is finished with politics these are just meaningless words meant to prevent him being watched ?

If the latter I suspect the new authority is not so gullible as to believe everything they hear.

[AleG]

While on curbing influence. I see in the news that after being released by the military one of the North's 'leaders' has said he will now retire from politics and enjoy life.

Enjoy life with the millions he has earned as a political activist which would appear to be a very lucrative profession in this country given that others have also reached the millionaire state of financial comfort while engaged in that profession, one even being able to start his own airline.

But then I suppose you must have the correct boss.

Could it be that there were words of wisdom spoken while he was a guest of the army that helped to influence that decision ?

Or could it be that like his benefactor who has said on many occasions he is finished with politics these are just meaningless words meant to prevent him being watched ?

If the latter I suspect the new authority is not so gullible as to believe everything they hear.

Would be nice of him to tell his Red Shirts followers, which he incited to rise up in arms, to fold back into civil society.