good news for U.S. ex-pats regarding FATCA

[mahjongguy]

Americans in Thailand, especially those who rely on the bank deposit method of qualifying for annual extensions, will be happy that the latest update to the IRS list of complying banks includes Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn Bank, and Siam Commercial.

If you have accounts at other Thai banks, you can look them up here:
http://apps.irs.gov/app/fatcaFfiList/flu.jsf

[glegolo]

Really??? What is this????? To use the bank-method it is just enough to have the money in a thaibank acoount... is that not true anymore???? I have never seen this kind of a list before during my six years here.

 

Plse somebody... explain this so one can learn from it...MAYBE???

 

Glegolo

[mahjongguy]

The U.S. Internal Revenue Service is hunting for hidden assets. Foreign banks which have U.S. citizen account holders must supply balance and transaction reports to the IRS. Any foreign bank which does not agree to do so will likely end up being forced to close those accounts. 

 

There was a lot of worry about this, especially among ex-pats. Now, for those in Thailand, the matter is settled.

[glegolo]

OK thank you,  good to know

 

Glegolo

[mahjongguy]

"You think FATCA is a good thing?"

 

No, I don't. But I think having compliant banks in Thailand is better than me having to carry a big load of cash around in a backpack.

[ubonjoe]

As I said, I do not think all banks will close American accounts, though some ultimately indeed might do that.  In that case one will have to find a bank that will take their business. I do not think local banks will be troubled by this, some local banks in Asian countries will not have to deal with the FATCA regulations, thus making them a potential tax haven, however, for Americans abroad who are not compliant these may be a better option.  I am not familar with the Thai banking system, but I am sure some banks may be immune from this nasty law or still take American clients anyway... 

It appears there should be no concern for those here from the US because it appears just about all Thai banks are compliant according to the info posted.

It is only banks that don't want to be compliant in other countries that are making problems for those from the US,

[pmarlin]

77,000 banks 70 countries, I would say most are complying.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/06/03/irs-nets-offshore-data-from-77000-banks-70-countries-in-fatca-push/

[Maestro]

In this topic we are concerned only about the banks in Thailand.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Pib]

Good news indeed...I guess the Chicken Littles can calm down now. 

 

After surfing around the IRA FATCA website a little it appears Thai banks/financial companies complied on their own versus an Inter Governmental Agreement (IGA) being established between the U.S. and Thailand.   It mentions on the FATCA website that an IGA makes the reporting requirements easier/simpler for financial organizations...but with the Thai govt in such turmoil over the last year I guess the Thai govt/Bank of Thailand didn't get around to doing an IGA based on this IRS List/webpage that shows the countries which have an IGA with the U.S.

 

Edited June 16, 2014 by Pib

[dinger]

Question as I am not familiar with all of the regulations regarding this issue.

I send money from my account in the U S to my wife's account here in Thailand. The account is not in my name but will this sort of transaction attract attention from the IRS and or Treasury Dept.

[ubonjoe]

Question as I am not familiar with all of the regulations regarding this issue.

I send money from my account in the U S to my wife's account here in Thailand. The account is not in my name but will this sort of transaction attract attention from the IRS and or Treasury Dept.

Not unless the transfer is $10,000 or more.

[mahjongguy]

- Assuming your name is not on your wife's account, there is nothing for you to report under these two new regulations.

- Further, because she is your wife, you do not need to report the money as a gift on your 1040.

- Such transfers are automatically recorded by the Treasury's computers along with many millions of others. No reason why they would draw any human attention.  

[CharlesHH]

FATCA kicks in at level of six figures, different for several categories of people.  Web has all info.

[pmarlin]

FATCA kicks in at level of six figures, different for several categories of people.  Web has all info.

Starts at $50,000 and goes from there to a complicated system of figuring out net worth and holdings.

[jmccarty]

Question as I am not familiar with all of the regulations regarding this issue.

I send money from my account in the U S to my wife's account here in Thailand. The account is not in my name but will this sort of transaction attract attention from the IRS and or Treasury Dept.

 

Good question, but isn't money already in your US account already taxed?  Can they tax it again somehow?

[mahjongguy]

"... isn't money already in your US account already taxed?  Can they tax it again somehow?"

 

One might bring money into Thailand that has already been taxed and invest it in something that generates revenue and/or capital gains. One might forget to report that income to both the Thai and U.S. revenue services.

 

Besides, the Treasury Department's interest is not limited to taxation. Detecting money laundering in support of criminal enterprise is also within their remit.

 

 

 

[arunsakda]

I just got a letter recently from Thanakhan Khrungthep confirming the balance of my fixed deposit. First ever. Assume this is being reported to IRS. No problem, I am FUBAR compliant and already pay a crapload of income tax. If they want a fraction of the pittance of interest earnings we get here have at it.

[Pib]

I just got a letter recently from Thanakhan Khrungthep confirming the balance of my fixed deposit. First ever. Assume this is being reported to IRS. No problem, I am FUBAR compliant and already pay a crapload of income tax. If they want a fraction of the pittance of interest earnings we get here have at it.

 

 

How can you relate a letter form Bangkok Bank telling you your account balance to the balance also being reported to the IRS?   Did the bank letter say that?

[mahjongguy]

Interesting. I have never gotten any mail from Bangkok Bank (nor Kbank). I'd love to get an occasional statement.

 

NOTE TO AMERICAN EX-PATS: This is the week that Thai banks pay out interest for the first half of the year. A good time to write down the amount(s) paid and save it where you can find it next Spring.

 

"I ...already pay a crapload of income tax."

 

Really? How much is a crapload? I hurt myself a bit last year by taking a bigger-than-usual withdrawal from my IRA. Still, I paid an overall tax rate of 16%. And no state tax. Compare that to the burden of our Brit and Euro friends.

 

[Pib]

Interesting. I have never gotten any mail from Bangkok Bank (nor Kbank). I'd love to get an occasional statement.

 

NOTE TO AMERICAN EX-PATS: This is the week that Thai banks pay out interest for the first half of the year. A good time to write down the amount(s) paid and save it where you can find it next Spring.

 

"I ...already pay a crapload of income tax."

 

Really? How much is a crapload? I hurt myself a bit last year by taking a bigger-than-usual withdrawal from my IRA. Still, I paid an overall tax rate of 16%. And no state tax. Compare that to the burden of our Brit and Euro friends.

 

 

Ouch on that 16%  tax rate.   I only paid 6.2% in U.S. federal taxes when the dust settled.. and no state tax.  But we've just been living on my govt retirement pensions so far and we haven't started drawing our social security yet.   But in  couple of years the wife and I will start withing some money from my 401K, a traditional IRA, our Roth IRAs, and our mutual funds investments...with the exception of our Roth IRAs all the withdrawals will be taxable to a degree...now I just need to figure out how to minimize that tax.  Use some of that money to buy another car.  The IRS won't let us die until we pay the taxes on those savings instruments....but that's OK as we both plan on hanging around as long as possible.  

[mahjongguy]

"I only paid 6.2%..."

 

I had 2 or 3 years like that. It was great. But now, taking money out of the IRA is costly and also causes 85% of the SS to be taxed.  The only thing to do is take it slow (but not too slow) year by year.

[arunsakda]

I just got a letter recently from Thanakhan Khrungthep confirming the balance of my fixed deposit. First ever. Assume this is being reported to IRS. No problem, I am FUBAR compliant and already pay a crapload of income tax. If they want a fraction of the pittance of interest earnings we get here have at it.

 
 
How can you relate a letter form Bangkok Bank telling you your account balance to the balance also being reported to the IRS?   Did the bank letter say that?

It is a letter in English and Thai dated 14 May received in the mail I did not request it.
Titled "letter of audit confirmation". Says if balance is not correct contact the bank.
I am just assuming it is reported to IRS, recently this is a topic here. I did not get a letter for my normal saving account btw. I did not get a chance to talk directly to my Tax guy this year but I assume they want your interest income reported. A US bank does not even generate a 1099 unless it is over $100.

Except for forums don't think I would have heard about "FUBAR" (FBAR). I blew it off for a couple years, my balances being small. but did it for 2013. I know they are interested in the big fish, just trying to do the right thing.

My only income is from a big US company so Uncle Sam gets his cut up front automatically every month. I won $1800 in a LV slot machine also. Casino took my SSN as well as $600 off the top for taxes as I did not have " a US address". Total bummer. I found this varies from casino to casino and whether you are registered there, but a foreigner would be able to keep all the cash by showing passport. Isn't that special? I'm still working , no mortgage , kids, dependents or deductions that beat AMT. Just no way to avoid big yearly hit. Edited June 23, 2014 by arunsakda

[lopburi3]

 A US bank does not even generate a 1099 unless it is over $100.

 

I believe that is $10 rather than $100.  But you still report the interest on tax as if they had issued the 1099.

[arunsakda]

I just got a letter recently from Thanakhan Khrungthep confirming the balance of my fixed deposit. First ever. Assume this is being reported to IRS. No problem, I am FUBAR compliant and already pay a crapload of income tax. If they want a fraction of the pittance of interest earnings we get here have at it.

 
 
How can you relate a letter form Bangkok Bank telling you your account balance to the balance also being reported to the IRS?   Did the bank letter say that?

It is a letter in English and Thai dated 14 May received in the mail I did not request it.
Titled "letter of audit confirmation". Says if balance is not correct contact the bank.
I am just assuming it is reported to IRS, recently this is a topic here. I did not get a letter for my normal saving account btw. I did not get a chance to talk directly to my Tax guy this year but I assume they want your interest income reported. A US bank does not even generate a 1099 unless it is over $100.

Except for forums don't think I would have heard about "FUBAR" (FBAR). I blew it off for a couple years, my balances being small. but did it for 2013. I know they are interested in the big fish, just trying to do the right thing.

My only income is from a big US company so Uncle Sam gets his cut up front automatically every month. I won $1800 in a LV slot machine also. Casino took my SSN as well as $600 off the top for taxes as I did not have " a US address". Total bummer. I found this varies from casino to casino and whether you are registered there, but a foreigner would be able to keep all the cash by showing passport. Isn't that special? I'm still working , no mortgage , kids, dependents or deductions that beat AMT. Just no way to avoid big yearly hit.

**getting more interesting I now realize that I had split my fixed account into 2 different orangebooks to take advantage of a promotional rate. One account just matured, the other not yet. This letter is from one of three accounts only. I'll pop by later this week.

[Pib]

 

 

I just got a letter recently from Thanakhan Khrungthep confirming the balance of my fixed deposit. First ever. Assume this is being reported to IRS. No problem, I am FUBAR compliant and already pay a crapload of income tax. If they want a fraction of the pittance of interest earnings we get here have at it.

 
 
How can you relate a letter form Bangkok Bank telling you your account balance to the balance also being reported to the IRS?   Did the bank letter say that?

It is a letter in English and Thai dated 14 May received in the mail I did not request it.
Titled "letter of audit confirmation". Says if balance is not correct contact the bank.
I am just assuming it is reported to IRS, recently this is a topic here. I did not get a letter for my normal saving account btw. I did not get a chance to talk directly to my Tax guy this year but I assume they want your interest income reported. A US bank does not even generate a 1099 unless it is over $100.

Except for forums don't think I would have heard about "FUBAR" (FBAR). I blew it off for a couple years, my balances being small. but did it for 2013. I know they are interested in the big fish, just trying to do the right thing.

My only income is from a big US company so Uncle Sam gets his cut up front automatically every month. I won $1800 in a LV slot machine also. Casino took my SSN as well as $600 off the top for taxes as I did not have " a US address". Total bummer. I found this varies from casino to casino and whether you are registered there, but a foreigner would be able to keep all the cash by showing passport. Isn't that special? I'm still working , no mortgage , kids, dependents or deductions that beat AMT. Just no way to avoid big yearly hit.

 

 

From the title of the letter it don't sound FATCA/IRA/FBAR related at all; just an internal bank action.  

 

Also, U.S. banks must generate a 1099INT for interest amounts earned of $10 or more per year; not the $100 you mention.   And for me, even when an account earns less that $10 in interest and no 1099INT was generated I still report it on my tax return...I just enter it like I did get a 1099INT.  I just use the end of year/Dec bank statement to determine what the interest amount was.  

 

And non-US banks (a.k.a., foreign banks) are not required to generate a 1099INT, which is a U.S. form.  But that does not mean you are not required to report the foreign interest...you would use foreign bank statements/ibanking data/passbook entries to determine the amount of interest paid when completing your tax return.

[moe666]

 

Interesting. I have never gotten any mail from Bangkok Bank (nor Kbank). I'd love to get an occasional statement.

 

NOTE TO AMERICAN EX-PATS: This is the week that Thai banks pay out interest for the first half of the year. A good time to write down the amount(s) paid and save it where you can find it next Spring.

 

"I ...already pay a crapload of income tax."

 

Really? How much is a crapload? I hurt myself a bit last year by taking a bigger-than-usual withdrawal from my IRA. Still, I paid an overall tax rate of 16%. And no state tax. Compare that to the burden of our Brit and Euro friends.

 

 

Ouch on that 16%  tax rate.   I only paid 6.2% in U.S. federal taxes when the dust settled.. and no state tax.  But we've just been living on my govt retirement pensions so far and we haven't started drawing our social security yet.   But in  couple of years the wife and I will start withing some money from my 401K, a traditional IRA, our Roth IRAs, and our mutual funds investments...with the exception of our Roth IRAs all the withdrawals will be taxable to a degree...now I just need to figure out how to minimize that tax.  Use some of that money to buy another car.  The IRS won't let us die until we pay the taxes on those savings instruments....but that's OK as we both plan on hanging around as long as possible.  

 

as a 401k and traditional IRA are both taxed as income how do you suppose to reduce your tax burden

[Pib]

Oh, I may not be able to do much other than watching the amount I withdraw to keep myself from being bumped into a higher tax bracket.  The Roth IRAs will most likely be the last to be touched since they are tax free and wouldn't want those withdrawals combined with traditional IRA/401K withdrawals to bump me into a higher tax bracket..  But maybe one of George W.'s relatives will be President some day, we'll have another financial crisis to also cause a big drop in the stock market, I'll sell my regular mutual funds at a loss, take credit for the loss on my tax return, and then this may allow me to reduce my tax burden on withdrawals from my 401K/traditional IRA.  Yeap, a future Bush just may help my tax burden in the future....but I don't know if the country could stand another Bush as president (not to imply Barry is doing a great job).  

[arunsakda]

Correct on the 1099INT. I do my best to comply. The maddening thing here is the big cheats will continue to use nominee entities and schemes to defraud and launder. Elites and multinational corporations with their legal methods as well succeed in paying little or nothing.

Meanwhile I have to run around liked a crazed bookkeeper on acid checking records to for the 417.75 Baht interest earned in the first 6 months of 2014. A princely sum after tax is deducted I'm sure. Maybe I can use the proceeds for a Grande Frappucino? Edited June 24, 2014 by arunsakda

[utkb]

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Question as I am not familiar with all of the regulations regarding this issue.

I send money from my account in the U S to my wife's account here in Thailand. The account is not in my name but will this sort of transaction attract attention from the IRS and or Treasury Dept.

 

 

Curious if you declare your wife on your US tax form (non-resident spouse, married filing jointly).  Does she have a tax id number?

 

If so I think she is technically considered a US person and her accounts should be included on your FATCA reporting.  

 

I don't know this for a fact (just trying to err on the side with the least issues).