Laptop problem: sudden shutdown

[arminbkk]

I have a problem with my laptop: when I turn it on, it starts until I see the boot line, then it shuts down/turns off completely, by itself. I then push the button again to turn it on, it starts, shows boot line, then jumps to a black/white screen where I have to select between 2 start up options: a repair option and normal start up. I select the ‘normal start up’, it starts, then it shuts down again completely. I push the button again, it starts, goes to that black/white selection screen, I select the normal start up, it briefly starts, then shuts down again. I repeat this 4, 5 sometimes 6 times again, before it finally “catches on”, continues and completes start up. It then works fine from there on, although sometimes it might shut down suddenly after a long time, 8-10 hours, probably because it got hot. By the way, when I say ‘shut down’, I don’t mean it goes through a normal complete shutdown procedure, it just turns off. I don’t have a battery in it, but use an adaptor. It will just turn off, same as when I would suddenly pull the plug.

I once did the ‘repair’ option: started at 9pm, couldn’t turn it off at 11pm, left it running during the night, it was finished at about 5am. It only started up correctly 1 time after that, then back to what I described above.

What is the problem?

I have a Samsung laptop, model R468, bought in Thailand in 2009.

Windows 7 Professional (activated), SP1, Intel Core Duo CPU, P7350 @2.00 GHz 32-bit OS 4GB RAM

I have about 3GB left on a 149 GB C-drive.

I have AVG Anti-virus installed, free edition 2012.

Anyone any idea what could be wrong and what I could do about it?

Thanks!!

[RichCor]

Probably one of the hardware components is bad/flaky, though 3GB free space isn't a lot and could have an effect on successful boot process -- especially if the drive is fragmented.

Think about deleting unnecessary user files (unneeded downloads, installers, temp files, browser cache, etc). If this helps, consider buying a larger drive.

You could also try swapping the RAM modules with each other.

But if it is a hardware issue then you're looking at replacing the laptop.

[Gsxrnz]

Agree re the nearly full drive. Strip some stuff out and put it onto a remote drive, do a defrag and see how it goes. Get it down to less than 80% if you can. Run CCleaner also to clean up your registry - it's probably a mess if you've never cleaned it up be before. Also, deinstall all unnecessary programs that you may have installed over the years.

I'm guessing it will improve somewhat but if it's a dodgy piece of hardware you may have to go further.

re the shutting down after extended use due to overheating - get a fan for it to sit on and install something like Speedfan to monitor your temperatures.

[arminbkk]

^^ Thanks for the replies!!

I will see what I can remove.

I already did CCleaner earlier today, removing temp files, cookies, browser cache etc and wiping free disk space.

Will see later if it starts up better because of that

How does one swap RAM modules?

[Gsxrnz]

^^ Thanks for the replies!!

I will see what I can remove.

I already did CCleaner earlier today, removing temp files, cookies, browser cache etc and wiping free disk space.

Will see later if it starts up better because of that

How does one swap RAM modules?

Open it up and remove/replace them. If unsure, a techi at Tukcom or similar will probably do it for 2-300B. Get it cleaned out while they're inside it - that will help your overheating issue as well.

[arminbkk]

@Gsxrnz thanks

Where is there a tukcom in BKK?

[Display]

I am 90% sure its a Hard drive failure without seeing the laptop, Why this happening is because there is some bad sectors on your Hard drive and at any minute your hard drive could fail completely and you could loss all your data.

Most Hard-drives only last 3-4 years of heavy use before they start to slow down and become problematic. Some may last twice that.

If you have any Data that is essential back it up! You need a new hard drive!

I used to work in a Computer repair shop....

[Gsxrnz]

@Gsxrnz thanks

Where is there a tukcom in BKK?

Unsure if there is one, but any decent looking repair shop should do it cheap enough. But concentrate on freeing up space and defragging first as this is more than likely the issue.

EDIT: Just had a thought - the defrag will take a very long time so make sure you keep the unit cool. Aircon and a fan blowing at it should help considerably. You don't want it to shut down part way through a defrag.

[arminbkk]

I am 90% sure its a Hard drive failure without seeing the laptop, Why this happening is because there is some bad sectors on your Hard drive and at any minute your hard drive could fail completely and you could loss all your data.

Most Hard-drives only last 3-4 years of heavy use before they start to slow down and become problematic. Some may last twice that.

If you have any Data that is essential back it up! You need a new hard drive!

I used to work in a Computer repair shop....

I keep data on a D-drive also, where I still have 119 GB free space now, out of 315 GB.

Just moved 5GB of data from C to D drive.

I have a lot backed up on Google Drive as well, but will do an update on that just in case.

Thanks.

Still hope my hard drive will not fail of course.

[arminbkk]

@Gsxnrz

I've moved 5 GB from C to D-drive now.

Have 8GB free space on C-drive now.

Will consider doing a defrag.

After that, if problem still exists, will take it to a repair shop.

Thanks for your suggestions!!

[Display]

I am 90% sure its a Hard drive failure without seeing the laptop, Why this happening is because there is some bad sectors on your Hard drive and at any minute your hard drive could fail completely and you could loss all your data.

Most Hard-drives only last 3-4 years of heavy use before they start to slow down and become problematic. Some may last twice that.

If you have any Data that is essential back it up! You need a new hard drive!

I used to work in a Computer repair shop....

I keep data on a D-drive also, where I still have 119 GB free space now, out of 315 GB.

Just moved 5GB of data from C to D drive.

I have a lot backed up on Google Drive as well, but will do an update on that just in case.

Thanks.

Still hope my hard drive will not fail of course.

Just a note - Your C and D drive are on the same Hard Drive so if your hard-drive completely fails you will lose both C and D drive data.

I am just cautious as I cant tell you the amount of students/business people used to come to our shop with hard drive Failures and losing months if not years of work as they didn't back their data up! Seen some sorry faces in my time working there.

[rhythmworx]

I've had this problem before and would also recommend you get a new drive.

[NeverSure]

I would not only buy a new HD, I'd also buy a new external HD for backups. Your OS can be scheduled to make a complete image of your main disk onto the external at intervals you choose. I like to do it every night. In addition I use Cobian Backup (free) to back up files and folders that I choose, mostly so that I can replace any files I ruin or accidentally delete without doing a complete image.

If you'll buy the two HD's, you can image your existing HD onto the external. Then you can install the new HD in your laptop and image it from your external, and be right back where you were losing nothing. I would guess it would take about 20 minutes to image and about that to restore to a different disk.

Just google "image and restore HD in Win 7" to save me a lot of typing please. Be sure to make the recovery disk so google that too.

[alfalfa19]

There is a free program called windir stat. it will show you, in numerical, and graphical form, what is taking up space on your drives. You might be surprised at how much space unneeded files are taking up.

[Bpuumike]

Agree re the nearly full drive. Strip some stuff out and put it onto a remote drive, do a defrag and see how it goes. Get it down to less than 80% if you can. Run CCleaner also to clean up your registry - it's probably a mess if you've never cleaned it up be before. Also, deinstall all unnecessary programs that you may have installed over the years.

I'm guessing it will improve somewhat but if it's a dodgy piece of hardware you may have to go further.

re the shutting down after extended use due to overheating - get a fan for it to sit on and install something like Speedfan to monitor your temperatures.

It could be as simple as overheating. Apparently the motherboard will have a maximum temp at which it shuts the machine down.

Per another suggestion, I understand that Win 7 automatically defrags the hard drive.

Well, that's the limits of my expertise. Good luck.

[NeverSure]

This may be crazy, but I wonder if not having a battery in it affects the direction of air flow and causes overheating. ??

Every computer will have at least one fan, and it will at the least flow outside air onto the CPU. Cases and fans are designed like a tunnel to pull fresh air in at one place, and direct it over heated parts, and then exhaust that air on the opposite end or side of the case.

Is the case still sealed when the battery is out, or could it cause a "leak" where air would be expelled there instead of where it's supposed to go?

My laptop wouldn't leak air with the battery out, but my last one would have.

Another thing. Even when connected to wall power, the laptop still runs off the battery. The battery works like an uninterrupted power supply, keeping the power stable and consistent regardless of what's happening at the wall. The charger keeps the battery charged while you're using the computer. If the power in the house goes out the laptop keeps running.

I wonder if you are getting any power surges that are kicking the computer off.

[NeverSure]

I would open the laptop enough that I could see the CPU, fan, and motherboard. I'd check for excessive dust, especially on the fan, but everywhere. I'd get a can of compressed gas that's made for blowing off electronics without building up static. excessive dust on the fan, CPU and/or motherboard will cause overheating.

Opening the laptop and removing the keyboard etc. isn't hard at all. Just google it for your make and model.

Download the free SpeedFan proggy and it will monitor the temp of your CPU and other important parts.

[cnx355]

My 2 years old Acer notebook was doing something similar to what you mentioned.

I saved my document folder on a external drive and when to Acer service.

The hard drive was defective and I had a new one installed with original Windows 7 .

[balo]

This sounds like a typical harddrive problem. I used to be an IT technician so I have seen a lot of these problems.

I would try to boot with an external CD / usb stick and check your harddrive for errors, it's possible to repair sectors and also do a repair with Win 7 boot kit if you have it. It could also be caused by an overheated component but most likely its your HD .

If you have used this computer daily since 2009 your HD will be tired and defragmentation will not help in this case , only make things worse if you already got several errors on your drive.

[RichCor]

This may be crazy, but I wonder if not having a battery in it affects [...]

[...]

Even when connected to wall power, the laptop still runs off the battery. The battery works like an uninterrupted power supply, keeping the power stable and consistent regardless of what's happening at the wall. The charger keeps the battery charged while you're using the computer. If the power in the house goes out the laptop keeps running.

I wonder if you are getting any power surges that are kicking the computer off.

@NeverSure, you may have just found the answer. Yes, a flaky power supply, lose connector, or wonky circuit board on a laptop without a battery would cause these exact symptoms AND sounds very likely to be the culprit.

OP,

Purchasing an OEM or 3rd-party Power Supply might solve the problem for little money.

Acquiring a replacement battery likewise might also solve the issue well enough (see NeverSure's 'batter as a UPS' explanation).

Though, if it's a laptop circuit-board issue then you might want to sidestep any other future issues and consider replacing the laptop altogether.

[sirchai]

A friend of mine, who's got various computer shops from Surin to Sisaket told me once that little animals like ants are causing many problems.

I had aclean up at my notebook a few weeks ago due overheating issues and you wouldn't believe how many ants there were.

They blocked the cooling system and a clean up was 300 baht. That doesn't explain the shut down. A bad contact of the memory card(s), virus(es), Trojans, etc could be the answer. Can you boot it in save mode?

If so a system restore could help you.

[wandasloan]

@Gsxrnz thanks

Where is there a tukcom in BKK?

In Bangkok, the best bet is to head for Pantip Plaza. First, search around in the rear of the ground floor, there are numerous shops there.

I agree from all of the above it seems to be a hard drive problem. It is never wrong to delete unneeded programs and big files, to defrag and to gain more space. But 3GB should be plenty to start your computer. Since it's not starting smoothly, it's more likely that the hard drive is in the process of failing.

Only a hands-on inspection can confirm that, or maybe point to something else. Pantip is on Phetchaburi Road, in the Pratunam area. It is open every day, and every taxi driver knows it.

.

[WhizBang]

If I was in your situitation, I would wipe the drive and start over with a fresh install.

Option 2 would be to buy a new larger drive and do a fresh install.

That assumes, of course, that your shutdown issues are not being caused by hardware problems.

[arminbkk]

Thanks for all the replies above!!

@Bpuumike post #15: the problem occurs when I start up the laptop after it has been off for 8 hours or more, so it does not shutdown just because of overheating.

@NeverSure post #17: my laptop battery has been 'dead' for months already. I took it out just recently to see if that would make a difference re the shutdown problem,

but it did not.

I've had this problem for about 2 weeks now.

@Sirchai post #21: I don't get the 'safe mode' option, only the 'repair option' and 'normal start-up' option.

I did the repair option today and after about 25 minutes it concluded that it could not 'repair the system automatically' and asked whether I wanted to

send a report to Microsoft or not. I choose not to, after which the laptop did continue with an uninterrupted start-up.

I tried to do a disk defragmentation analysis, but after 1 hour it was still only showing "1%" so I cancelled that.

I think I will first get some external hard drive and copy all important stuff on it and then take it to a shop.

Hopefully the laptop will breakdown not just yet, before I have copied everything.

Thanks for all replies!

[Display]

Thanks for all the replies above!!

@Bpuumike post #15: the problem occurs when I start up the laptop after it has been off for 8 hours or more, so it does not shutdown just because of overheating.

@NeverSure post #17: my laptop battery has been 'dead' for months already. I took it out just recently to see if that would make a difference re the shutdown problem,

but it did not.

I've had this problem for about 2 weeks now.

@Sirchai post #21: I don't get the 'safe mode' option, only the 'repair option' and 'normal start-up' option.

I did the repair option today and after about 25 minutes it concluded that it could not 'repair the system automatically' and asked whether I wanted to

send a report to Microsoft or not. I choose not to, after which the laptop did continue with an uninterrupted start-up.

I tried to do a disk defragmentation analysis, but after 1 hour it was still only showing "1%" so I cancelled that.

I think I will first get some external hard drive and copy all important stuff on it and then take it to a shop.

Hopefully the laptop will breakdown not just yet, before I have copied everything.

Thanks for all replies!

Again its your hard drive that is failing! If it wont Defrag obliviously it a problem with your Hard Drive! now I am 100% sure.

[Display]

Also I would recommend 4TH floor in MBK outside Power city their is a guy there that does all the work for Power city as they surprisingly don't have any Technicians working there.

He is in front of the Samsung store. He will back-up everything for you and fix your Laptop so its running perfectly!

Pan-tip is dodge!

[RichCor]

arminbkk Posted Yesterday, 17:16

I have a problem with my laptop: when I turn it on, it starts until I see the boot line, then it shuts down/turns off completely, by itself. I then push the button again to turn it on, it starts, shows boot line, then jumps to a black/white screen where I have to select between 2 start up options: a repair option and normal start up. I select the ‘normal start up’, it starts, then it shuts down again completely. I push the button again, it starts, goes to that black/white selection screen, I select the normal start up, it briefly starts, then shuts down again. I repeat this 4, 5 sometimes 6 times again, before it finally “catches on”, continues and completes start up. It then works fine from there on,

I wish you hadn't used the term 'shuts down' to describe a power-off or power-loss event. They are two very different processes.

While the system can power off after a successful shutdown process, I've only seen power-off occur during boot or runtime with

• failing/bad memory or other significant i/o component
• incompatible video drivers
• extreme heat issues
• Loose DC Power Jack, Failing Power Adapter or Battery issues

The error screens you're encountering are NORMAL. When the boot process is interrupted the OS is unable to write a successful boot flag to the drive and the next boot attempt will recognize this and detour to the recovery boot menu.

[Sandman77]

Maybe run to hot check fan and temperature in bios

Drill some wholes in a table and put a patlom on the underside to cool down

[arminbkk]

@RichCor, thanks, yes, power-loss event would be a better term.

I think it is probably the first possibility you mention.

As I said before, it will happen when I turn it on in the morning, after it has been off for some 8 to 10 hours, so it's not a heat issue at that moment.

But, overheating in the past will likely have attributed to the wear of the components.

[arminbkk]

Thanks for all the replies above!!

@Bpuumike post #15: the problem occurs when I start up the laptop after it has been off for 8 hours or more, so it does not shutdown just because of overheating.

@NeverSure post #17: my laptop battery has been 'dead' for months already. I took it out just recently to see if that would make a difference re the shutdown problem,

but it did not.

I've had this problem for about 2 weeks now.

@Sirchai post #21: I don't get the 'safe mode' option, only the 'repair option' and 'normal start-up' option.

I did the repair option today and after about 25 minutes it concluded that it could not 'repair the system automatically' and asked whether I wanted to

send a report to Microsoft or not. I choose not to, after which the laptop did continue with an uninterrupted start-up.

I tried to do a disk defragmentation analysis, but after 1 hour it was still only showing "1%" so I cancelled that.

I think I will first get some external hard drive and copy all important stuff on it and then take it to a shop.

Hopefully the laptop will breakdown not just yet, before I have copied everything.

Thanks for all replies!

Again its your hard drive that is failing! If it wont Defrag obliviously it a problem with your Hard Drive! now I am 100% sure.

I also did a disk check: that did not move along either. I let it run for 4 hours, when I came it was still at 0%!!