Suthep defends his riot control role in 2010

[Morch]

I guess the soldiers who fired below the knees were not sharpshooters. There sites must have been off a meter or so.

Most surely weren't.

Most weren't ready for this anyway.

Even when shooting instructions are to aim overhead, at the sky, at the ground or wherever, people end up dead.

Happens all over the world. Only way to counter this is to send the troops in without ammo...but then it could have

ended with a different casualty list.

Bear in mind there was something like 700k rounds allegedly fired, and about 160 people in total that were hit(including shots fired by the heavily armed red ronins). In short, a blind, dumb and deaf kid with his hands cuffed behind his back could have out-performed the army in terms of accurate shooting. Unless of course, the army was NOT actually shooting at the rampaging reds, which I suspect is more likely. I'd say the vast majority of deaths were simply friendly fire by team rouge. If they backed off on the yabba and lao khao their accuracy would likely improve.

Not familiar with the 700K figure - seems excessive (I think the USA used around 250k/day in Iraq, the IDF around 1-1.5 million

(not daily) over the first few months of the 2000 Intifada). Could be wrong, but doesn't sound right.

I think that you have no basis for the claim that is likely most of the death were the result of friendly dire by the red shirts. At

least I don't think that there is any halfway credible version that says anything of the sort, the yabba and lao khao images, while

adding color, do not necessarily make this claim any stronger. It is probably true that some death can be attributed to what

you described, however calling it a vast majority is a stretch of imagination.

Most of the firepower was clearly with the army, and the army was obviously ill prepared for the task at hand.

This is not really blaming the army or having a go at them - it is simply not part of their designated tasks.

[pisico]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

fortunatley your not a judge with a pre-planned verdict eh

I know this is a cynical question but: who appointed those judges and when were they appointed?

Funny that his lawsuit was heard so quickly.... I wonder why Wink, wink, nudge, nudge!!

[Fat Haggis]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Any you would stop reds trying to set fire to a petrol truck just how? Blowing air?

Baton rounds (Plastic/Rubber bullets) they worked alright for us in Northern Ireland, I can't recall live ammo having ever been used when we were Duty Internal Security Company. I believe that the ROE's changed significantly in NI after Bloody Sunday.

The Army and their Commanders on the ground during these riots in 2010 have been given immunity from prosecution, they're the ones who changed their ROE's when live rounds were used.

It's very easy to sit and quarter back what various people should have done, I'm basing my post on past experience, but I can assure you, as an 18 year old, getting petrol bombed and rocks thrown at you by thousands of pissed off protesters is a very scary and intimidating experience, and the Young Thai soldiers would have felt the same fear and apprehension I did during the 1980's with nothing but a perspex 6 foot shield in your hands (rifles were slung over our backs)

It's very easy to sit in judgement, and there's a saying in the Military, it's better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.

The Red Shirts were armed with things that carried a lot more punch than molotovs and rocks, so you may try to extrapolate from your experience what the Thai conscripts had to deal with.

yes, and the PIRA and the INLA were always in the wings with a lot more than rocks and petrol bombs too in Northern Ireland, did I say that the red shirts were not armed ? I'm putting it into context that being on the front line, is not a place many can handle, it's terrifying, it's the unknown that is the greatest fear, now knowing if you're up to the job in the first place, it's the unknown that you can't see that cause the biggest fears.

I'm not sure if you're having a dig here or pointing out the similarities of having been there done that ?

[Thait Spot]

Its interesting to note that he uses the word "shotguns" but the dead and wounded were shot with high calibre rounds

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[whybother]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

fortunatley your not a judge with a pre-planned verdict eh

I know this is a cynical question but: who appointed those judges and when were they appointed?

Funny that his lawsuit was heard so quickly.... I wonder why Wink, wink, nudge, nudge!!

This court appearance is very early in proceedings and is basically just acknowledgement of the charges. The case itself will start in 2 or 3 (or 10) years.

[Dr Bruce]

I think that everybody needs to re-read the OP.

This is not the case where Suthep and Abist are being prosecuted, that case will take years before being quietly dropped.

"He testified in the court for a case he filed against Department of Special Investigation (DSI) former director-general Tarit Pengdit and three other DSI senior officials of malfeasance and power abuse for indicting murder and attempted murder charges on former premier Abhisit Vejjajiva and him in connection with the legitimate crackdown of rioters between April and May 2010."

The aim of this case which is being very quickly rushed through the courts is to prosecute Tarit and others for bringing charges against the Dear Leader.

Talking about his testemony now. He said that he ordered shot guns fired and aimed below the knees, anybody who has used shotguns will tell you that they are useful because the pellets spread out quickely depending on the choke of the barrel.

[kuiburi]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

Ever been in chaos with bombs , fire and bullets flying around and ur buddies dropping down , this goes for both sides army and reds

[Bernard Flint]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

The elite yellow farangs, forget about this

Its a nice counter balance to hubbies of ex bar girl red shirt families, and their lost cause. The yin and the yang. Elite thinkers and bar fly drinkers, hahaha.

I am not red or yellow, but i can see from your abusive post that you are a <deleted>, more than anything politicaly. want to meet some guys from Issan, they would love to meet you

[love1012]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Yes what an honest man - to admit it and take the consequences - now if only your tin pot demi god in dubai had the cahoonas to do the same we could all get on with our lives - oh and well done red shirts for supporting the coward!!

[Dr Bruce]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

fortunatley your not a judge with a pre-planned verdict eh

I know this is a cynical question but: who appointed those judges and when were they appointed?

Funny that his lawsuit was heard so quickly.... I wonder why Wink, wink, nudge, nudge!!

This court appearance is very early in proceedings and is basically just acknowledgement of the charges. The case itself will start in 2 or 3 (or 10) years.

Wrong case, the case against Suthep is the one he is avoiding. This is Suthep's case against Tarit.

Suthep was taken to court after he was released by the military to answer the charges on the case against him. He was bailed imediatly without saying anything to answer the charges.

Case against Suthep is going to be very slow. Case against Tarit for bringing charges against Suthep will be quick.

[Morch]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

As small correction to your first line - this is Suthep's version of events. I don't think they are quite through with him yet.

I think the casualties has more to do with the RTA not being up for the task of crowd control and dispersal. You cannot

seriously claim that all those killed were armed, or even wore black shirts.

I'm sure they're far from being done with questioning Suthep, but the fact remains he and he alone has claimed responsibility for the order being given. Case closed unless they magically find some piece of paper with Abhisit's signature on it ordering the shootings.

And again, please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't make any claim that all that were killed were armed. The facts are however very clear, there was a large Thaksin-sponsored mob that took over large areas of Bangkok for months, the residents of Bangkok and the infrastructure were being shot, bombed and burned daily, warnings were given, opprtunities were given for people to leave, and labeling them as terrorists was more than warranted and justified. They should have known what was coming. Exactly what Thaksin had planned from day 1.

Well, there should be a paper somewhere with someone's signature and that ought to settle it. If there isn't (which might be

a case worth investigating by itself), then the generals receiving the order could confirm whichever version. Wonder is Suthep

is just taking the fall for this, as doesn't seem likely he'll be back anytime soon in any official capacity. Other thing I wonder

about is that as Abhisit was the PM, wouldn't the authority to make such decisions lie with him? He certainly knew or should

have known - either option isn't too great. The other thing is back to the Yingluck responsibility precedent (as per the rice

scam) - where does the buck stop?

I am not trying to say Abhisit is guilty, not even sure Suthep is. Some decisions need to be taken, consequences not always

go as planned. Just saying that still a way to go before its clear what happened, and being Thailand, maybe not even then.

No argument about the red shirts taking over the center of Bangok etc. I was here at the time. My only reservation is that

whatever they are tagged as, not all present were terrorists, armed or even violent. Some wish to say all or most were, that's

fine - personally don't subscribe to this view. The armed and willing element in most groups isn't that large, really.

[love1012]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

.....shot by red shirts - FACT!!! Like the thai lady shopping in Silom was killed by a red shirt grenade fired from Lumphini park!! - get a life learn the facts!!

Edited June 9, 2014 by love1012

[tullynagardy]

Seem to be clearing the way to bring Mark back in as an unelected PM once more. (hence why he has kept such a low profile in all this.) Suthep from the word go seem to have been the fall guy, willing to take the hit, presumably for a huge sum of money. His politics days will be over but he can retire in his mansion down south with his millions now in billions, most of it stolen from the state.

Then once "the" event happens which this whole charade has been about and they install the "democrats" once more as government, it will be back to square one and the cycle can begin again.

Groundhog day

[Bernard Flint]

Seem to be clearing the way to bring Mark back in as an unelected PM once more. (hence why he has kept such a low profile in all this.) Suthep from the word go seem to have been the fall guy, willing to take the hit, presumably for a huge sum of money. His politics days will be over but he can retire in his mansion down south with his millions now in billions, most of it stolen from the state.

Then once "the" event happens which this whole charade has been about and they install the "democrats" once more as government, it will be back to square one and the cycle can begin again.

Groundhog day

good post and correct

[love1012]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

The elite yellow farangs, forget about this

Its a nice counter balance to hubbies of ex bar girl red shirt families, and their lost cause. The yin and the yang. Elite thinkers and bar fly drinkers, hahaha.

I am not red or yellow, but i can see from your abusive post that you are a <deleted>, more than anything politicaly. want to meet some guys from Issan, they would love to meet you

I am not red or yellow - bernard flintoooooh he's threatening us with his friends!!!!! maybe we could introduce you to some nice Army officers who'll wave you off from the airport

Edited June 9, 2014 by love1012

[fab4]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

80 plus civilians were killed before any buildings were set alight or looting occurred. Still what's a few dead civilians when the Bangkok Bank building is being threatened.......

Where do you people get your moral sense from?

[love1012]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

80 plus civilians were killed before any buildings were set alight or looting occurred. Still what's a few dead civilians when the Bangkok Bank building is being threatened.......

Where do you people get your moral sense from?

RUBBISH - you either have a short memory or your a liar!! over 60 were killed by red shirts and thaksins hired Cambodians. DONT presume to tell me about 2010 i was there and saw it myself - you need to sort the facts out in your mind and stop blaming others for the demise of your tin pot Dubai demi god!!

[Thailand]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

The elite yellow farangs, forget about this

Its a nice counter balance to hubbies of ex bar girl red shirt families, and their lost cause. The yin and the yang. Elite thinkers and bar fly drinkers, hahaha.

I thought this was a post from the ex Miss Thailand Universe.

[love1012]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

As small correction to your first line - this is Suthep's version of events. I don't think they are quite through with him yet.

I think the casualties has more to do with the RTA not being up for the task of crowd control and dispersal. You cannot

seriously claim that all those killed were armed, or even wore black shirts.

They were idiots raising hell, shooting and rioting, and paid and dressed in red, told to go home, fought troops, who got what they certainly sought & deserved; that we can claim.

I do not believe all were paid, all were shooting and all fought troops.

Certainly some were. Probably quite a few were a mirror image of the PDRC crowd.

Guess that the casualty list includes both sorts.

A mirror image of the PDRC crowd???? N~O the PDRC protested without killing ANYO~NE but 28 of them wee murdered by YOUR TEAM!! Think about what your spouting before you post

[whybother]

<snip>

Talking about his testemony now. He said that he ordered shot guns fired and aimed below the knees, anybody who has used shotguns will tell you that they are useful because the pellets spread out quickely depending on the choke of the barrel.

So these shot guns that Suthep authorised for live fire wouldn't be the ones that killed anyone, since the courts have said that those killed that they have ruled on were killed by military weaponry, specifying the type of bullet.

[fab4]

I guess the soldiers who fired below the knees were not sharpshooters. There sites must have been off a meter or so.

Most surely weren't.

Most weren't ready for this anyway.

Even when shooting instructions are to aim overhead, at the sky, at the ground or wherever, people end up dead.

Happens all over the world. Only way to counter this is to send the troops in without ammo...but then it could have

ended with a different casualty list.

Bear in mind there was something like 700k rounds allegedly fired, and about 160 people in total that were hit(including shots fired by the heavily armed red ronins). In short, a blind, dumb and deaf kid with his hands cuffed behind his back could have out-performed the army in terms of accurate shooting. Unless of course, the army was NOT actually shooting at the rampaging reds, which I suspect is more likely. I'd say the vast majority of deaths were simply friendly fire by team rouge. If they backed off on the yabba and lao khao their accuracy would likely improve.

"Unless of course, the army was NOT actually shooting at the rampaging reds, which I suspect is more likely. I'd say the vast majority of deaths were simply friendly fire by team rouge. If they backed off on the yabba and lao khao their accuracy would likely improve."

Possibly the most pathetic attempt at justification I've seen on this forum - absolutely beyond belief.

[Morch]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

.....shot by red shirts - FACT!!! Like the thai lady shopping in Silom was killed by a red shirt grenade fired from Lumphini park!! - get a life learn the facts!!

It is by no means a fact, not even if you use caps.

Unless you have any new evidence on these cases, I do not believe there was any clear indication that they were killed by

red-shirts.

While Suthep did say that Fabio Polenghi died as a result of M79 fired by red shirts, autopsy results showed he

was actually shot, and the reporter next to him testified they were running away from advancing soldiers who were shooting.

Circumstances surrounding Hiro Muramoto's death may somewhat more vague, but not a "fact" as you alluded to.

[icare999]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

and what on earth did you expect a government to do when red thugs were firing and killing soldiers and others thyeh ad plenty of warning that it was a live fire zone. Its amazing more were not killed and government bent over backwards tao try and avoid any killing

I guess people like you would think its fine for a mob to kill army people who were trying to keep order and fine for them to have grenades guns and burn down parts of bangkok

Your pathetic

[WhizBang]

I guess the soldiers who fired below the knees were not sharpshooters. There sites must have been off a meter or so.

If that were the case, there would have been many many more dead.

[Morch]

I do not believe all were paid, all were shooting and all fought troops.

Certainly some were. Probably quite a few were a mirror image of the PDRC crowd.

Guess that the casualty list includes both sorts.

A mirror image of the PDRC crowd???? N~O the PDRC protested without killing ANYO~NE but 28 of them wee murdered by YOUR TEAM!! Think about what your spouting before you post

Lose the caps, please.

And I do not have a team. Guess you're one of them people that cannot comprehend the notion that someone does not wholly

support a side.

What I meant was that some of the red-shirt demonstrators are in many ways similar to those seen in the PDRC demonstrations.

I have been to both, by the way. Not everyone that attends a demonstration is necessarily armed, violent or a bad person, even

if he happens to uphold different views. Most people are just people.

It's a novel concept, I know. Take some time to mull it over.

[ramrod711]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

The elite yellow farangs, forget about this

I suppose the men in black fired rubber bullets in the air so as not to injure anyone. Please.

[marcusd]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

fortunatley your not a judge with a pre-planned verdict eh

Look folks. its OK to bag and complain about everything but look overseas.

BANG BANG go the Police then they scream STOP OR I WILL SHOOT. After the gun has already done its damage. And that is usually when not even in a protest. Thailand had serious troubles back then.

A case a few years ago had Police in Melbourne Australia shoot a mentally retarded 16 year old who looked and acted like a 10 year old. They shot him because he had a knife in his hands. BIG STRONG POLICE could not handle that? i was taught that in self defense at SCHOOL! they could have used ropes to bring him down.

SO there is NO DIFFERENCE here.

[Morch]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

80 plus civilians were killed before any buildings were set alight or looting occurred. Still what's a few dead civilians when the Bangkok Bank building is being threatened.......

Where do you people get your moral sense from?

RUBBISH - you either have a short memory or your a liar!! over 60 were killed by red shirts and thaksins hired Cambodians. DONT presume to tell me about 2010 i was there and saw it myself - you need to sort the facts out in your mind and stop blaming others for the demise of your tin pot Dubai demi god!!

You were running around ground zero with all this mayhem going on, and seen with your own eyes red-shirts and Cambodians

killing people (with apparently some of them killing their own)?

Is there any official or half official line of inquiry that suggests this?

[fab4]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

80 plus civilians were killed before any buildings were set alight or looting occurred. Still what's a few dead civilians when the Bangkok Bank building is being threatened.......

Where do you people get your moral sense from?

RUBBISH - you either have a short memory or your a liar!! over 60 were killed by red shirts and thaksins hired Cambodians. DONT presume to tell me about 2010 i was there and saw it myself - you need to sort the facts out in your mind and stop blaming others for the demise of your tin pot Dubai demi god!!

I wouldn't normally grace your posts with a reply but calling me a liar and insisting that over 60 civilians were killed by Red Shirts and that Thaksin hired Cambodians is not what one would expect from someone who claims she/he is an intelligent Thai wife.

Perhaps your "husband" could refresh your memory on just what happened in 2010?

[Tatsujin]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

As small correction to your first line - this is Suthep's version of events. I don't think they are quite through with him yet.

I think the casualties has more to do with the RTA not being up for the task of crowd control and dispersal. You cannot

seriously claim that all those killed were armed, or even wore black shirts.

I'm sure they're far from being done with questioning Suthep, but the fact remains he and he alone has claimed responsibility for the order being given. Case closed unless they magically find some piece of paper with Abhisit's signature on it ordering the shootings.

And again, please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't make any claim that all that were killed were armed. The facts are however very clear, there was a large Thaksin-sponsored mob that took over large areas of Bangkok for months, the residents of Bangkok and the infrastructure were being shot, bombed and burned daily, warnings were given, opprtunities were given for people to leave, and labeling them as terrorists was more than warranted and justified. They should have known what was coming. Exactly what Thaksin had planned from day 1.

Well, there should be a paper somewhere with someone's signature and that ought to settle it. If there isn't (which might be

a case worth investigating by itself), then the generals receiving the order could confirm whichever version. Wonder is Suthep

is just taking the fall for this, as doesn't seem likely he'll be back anytime soon in any official capacity. Other thing I wonder

about is that as Abhisit was the PM, wouldn't the authority to make such decisions lie with him? He certainly knew or should

have known - either option isn't too great. The other thing is back to the Yingluck responsibility precedent (as per the rice

scam) - where does the buck stop?

I am not trying to say Abhisit is guilty, not even sure Suthep is. Some decisions need to be taken, consequences not always

go as planned. Just saying that still a way to go before its clear what happened, and being Thailand, maybe not even then.

No argument about the red shirts taking over the center of Bangok etc. I was here at the time. My only reservation is that

whatever they are tagged as, not all present were terrorists, armed or even violent. Some wish to say all or most were, that's

fine - personally don't subscribe to this view. The armed and willing element in most groups isn't that large, really.

Suthep doesn't need to take the fall for anything. We've been over this many times before. Under the SoE in place at the time, the PM is immune to prosecution.

And that small armed and willing element? I call bullshit. It was a very large and well armed element being sheltered willingly by everyone else. I call a spade a spade.