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Barring a raid on shared work facilities, it will most likely be Thai Immigration who would tell someone they are working without the proper documentation. If they want to do it, it is easy enough for them to do so at a border point. Up to them.

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Barring a raid on shared work facilities, it will most likely be Thai Immigration who would tell someone they are working without the proper documentation. If they want to do it, it is easy enough for them to do so at a border point. Up to them.

This does happen; I have been questioned several times as to where I am working - even with a non-o...

I am on an African passport though, which used to be the reason for extra scrutiny. Now I think everyone is subject to the same level of checks.

Exactly how does one prove you are not working in Thailand, if accused?

For the past two years I have a Malaysian WP in my passport which made things a lot easier both in obtaining a non-o (multi) and at the border. Prior to that it was always 'suggested' that I am working illegally, both at border and in country.

Edited by ParadiseLost
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I am guessing you are telling the OP that he can't live here because although he can work from anywhere... not Thailand because it's illegal?

Please tell me where it is legal to do so - I will be on the first flight...

I just see many people doing it....1 guy I know in my condo sells on ebay...been here for years..another is a programmer on a education visa.& many more ie.

I certainly wouldn't be telling them they can't do it because it's illegal.

As I said I think it's a gray area...if funds deposited in a foreign bank and they not taking money from Thai business.....

Not for me to say it's illegal........Kinda same to tell someone not to buy illegal software or take a prostitute..."It's illegal don't ya know don't do it" ... although getting laughed at is kinda fun.

And to most people if they could do it..they probably would.

Nobody is telling the OP he can't move here, they are simply stating that if he works at his internet business, he will be doing so illegally

Just because you know lots of others working with no permit doesn't make it legal.

Laws are laws, not opinions. I don't tell people to not buy illegal software or download pirate movies either, but it's still illegal

The only gray area that matters is the one where a Thai immigration officer says it's illegal or not.

.

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Exactly how does one prove you are not working in Thailand, if accused? When asked by a Thai IMM official, one gives an answer as to one's source of funds while living in Thailand which may be sufficient. If one gives an answer that is not sufficient, then the IMM official may make a note in the passport and on the computer that they were not satisfied with the answer and that the non-Thai person should have a better answer next time.

It is not a matter of proof -- it is only a matter of giving an answer that satisfies the IMM official at the point of entry. If one IS working in Thailand, my guess would be that they have already heard most all the explanations one might use to claim the contrary.
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I am guessing you are telling the OP that he can't live here because although he can work from anywhere... not Thailand because it's illegal?

Please tell me where it is legal to do so - I will be on the first flight...

I just see many people doing it....1 guy I know in my condo sells on ebay...been here for years..another is a programmer on a education visa.& many more ie.

I certainly wouldn't be telling them they can't do it because it's illegal.

As I said I think it's a gray area...if funds deposited in a foreign bank and they not taking money from Thai business.....

Not for me to say it's illegal........Kinda same to tell someone not to buy illegal software or take a prostitute..."It's illegal don't ya know don't do it" ... although getting laughed at is kinda fun.

And to most people if they could do it..they probably would.

Nobody is telling the OP he can't move here, they are simply stating that if he works at his internet business, he will be doing so illegally

Just because you know lots of others working with no permit doesn't make it legal.

Laws are laws, not opinions. I don't tell people to not buy illegal software or download pirate movies either, but it's still illegal

The only gray area that matters is the one where a Thai immigration officer says it's illegal or not.

.

I didn't say because I know people doing it that it is legal...

actually I don't know the law...and probably most people here don't...or am I a Immigration Officer to determine.

Maybe the law says one can't work online while in Thailand..I really don't know.

I'm guessing it's more to do with having a business or working in Thailand & taking work that a Thai should have... Again I don't know.

Maybe there are documented cases of people being charged for this offense .. I don't know.

The OP says he's coming here for 6 months ..in my opinion it's not an issue..but again maybe I am wrong.

I still think it's a gray area but if someone can enlighten me with facts then my opinion is as nonsensical as those that say it is illegal & trying to scare the poor guy.

The OP has a dream...maybe she's a Thai woman he met..I say go for it if one can..

We all do dumb things.....

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...

I didn't say because I know people doing it that it is legal...

actually I don't know the law...and probably most people here don't...or am I a Immigration Officer to determine.

Maybe the law says one can't work online while in Thailand..I really don't know.

I'm guessing it's more to do with having a business or working in Thailand & taking work that a Thai should have... Again I don't know.

Maybe there are documented cases of people being charged for this offense .. I don't know.

The OP says he's coming here for 6 months ..in my opinion it's not an issue..but again maybe I am wrong.

I still think it's a gray area but if someone can enlighten me with facts then my opinion is as nonsensical as those that say it is illegal & trying to scare the poor guy.

The OP has a dream...maybe she's a Thai woman he met..I say go for it if one can..

We all do dumb things.....

There are many posts here on TV that provide the Thai immigration definition of working...

The amazing thing is everyone does know; it is so widely discussed and even if you are an illiterate hermit - you know you cannot simply move to ANY country in the world and use tourist visas to pursue your career..

For ####s sake - even volunteers need a WP so where do people get the notion that living and earning money here is a 'grey area'?

Similar to what another poster wrote, I don't preach to people about what they can or can't do - but please don't try to justify illegal activities (not you personally).

Edited by ParadiseLost
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I am guessing you are telling the OP that he can't live here because although he can work from anywhere... not Thailand because it's illegal?


Please tell me where it is legal to do so - I will be on the first flight...



I just see many people doing it....1 guy I know in my condo sells on ebay...been here for years..another is a programmer on a education visa.& many more ie.

I certainly wouldn't be telling them they can't do it because it's illegal.

As I said I think it's a gray area...if funds deposited in a foreign bank and they not taking money from Thai business.....

Not for me to say it's illegal........Kinda same to tell someone not to buy illegal software or take a prostitute..."It's illegal don't ya know don't do it" ... although getting laughed at is kinda fun.

And to most people if they could do it..they probably would.


Nobody is telling the OP he can't move here, they are simply stating that if he works at his internet business, he will be doing so illegally

Just because you know lots of others working with no permit doesn't make it legal.

Laws are laws, not opinions. I don't tell people to not buy illegal software or download pirate movies either, but it's still illegal

The only gray area that matters is the one where a Thai immigration officer says it's illegal or not.
.


I didn't say because I know people doing it that it is legal...

actually I don't know the law...and probably most people here don't...or am I a Immigration Officer to determine.

Maybe the law says one can't work online while in Thailand..I really don't know.

I'm guessing it's more to do with having a business or working in Thailand & taking work that a Thai should have... Again I don't know.

Maybe there are documented cases of people being charged for this offense .. I don't know.

The OP says he's coming here for 6 months ..in my opinion it's not an issue..but again maybe I am wrong.

I still think it's a gray area but if someone can enlighten me with facts then my opinion is as nonsensical as those that say it is illegal & trying to scare the poor guy.

The OP has a dream...maybe she's a Thai woman he met..I say go for it if one can..

We all do dumb things.....


Go and read upon the enquiry phuket DOL was sent by Aussie guy who wanted to live in Thailand for 3 months and continue working on his Aussie based on line business, and his money was earned and deposited outside of Thailand, DOL response, if you do this while in Thailand, your working and without a WP this is illegal and they recommended he didn't do it

Nothing grey in their comments, very definitive me thinks Edited by ubonjoe
fixed broken quotes
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<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Exactly how does one prove you are not working in Thailand, if accused? When asked by a Thai IMM official, one gives an answer as to one's source of funds while living in Thailand which may be sufficient. If one gives an answer that is not sufficient, then the IMM official may make a note in the passport and on the computer that they were not satisfied with the answer and that the non-Thai person should have a better answer next time.

It is not a matter of proof -- it is only a matter of giving an answer that satisfies the IMM official at the point of entry. If one IS working in Thailand, my guess would be that they have already heard most all the explanations one might use to claim the contrary.

I disagree with you completely , why would immigration care about where you get the money from outside of Thailand?

I have invested in condos here so I can show them the blue book. Money transfered from my home country to a thai bank . Do you think immigration will ask me how I earned that money so I could buy a condo ?

No they are only looking for people working illegally in Thailand , having a Thai business inside Thailand is very different trom having a business outside Thailand.

As I am selfemployed , my business is in Europe. When I fill out the TM card on the airplane to Bangkok I write that I'm selfemployed. Where I get the money from is not interesting for immigration as long as the money has not been earned in Thailand. Any questions at the border and I can show them 100k cash if they want .

If they knew I had some emails and talks with customers in Europe from my laptop whle I was living in Thailand , they probably wouldn't care about it anyway. I invest in Thailand and they should be happy about the money I give to businesses in Thailand.

Now law is the law but we all know what that means. Internet opened up the world for most people , if they want to stop it they need to block the internet line at my condo so I can't access it.

Today in Pattaya , I can have a business conversation with a friend on Facebook where we agree on a contract for a customer in Europe. Who wants to stop me?

Edited by balo
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There are people that are living in Thailand on a tourist visa...I think legally they are not tourists...they are living here..maybe they own or rent a condo/apartment.

Each time at the border they say that they are tourists....it's kinda obvious they are not & probably the reason for the crackdown on consistent border runs....but in my case months ago they said I would need proof of income. They didn't say I couldn't get another tourist visa...just they wanted proof I have the funds to live here.

Luckily I am on pension & have the funds...They don't ask..although they could ....where I get my funds from...I go to my embassy show them my bank records and I get a letter from them stating how much money every month is coming in.

Someone that works online and in Thailand for 1 week, 1 month, 3 months or 6 months is under the same scrutiny I am guessing.

You might think it's illegal and I am guessing you don't work online... so to you it's wrong.

The reality is people are doing it...might be the businessman on holiday checking on business back home, a freelance programmer, website owner or whatever.

There are people on tourist visas buying goods in Thailand to sell back home..technically they are working in Thailand.

This doesn't really concern me as I don't need to work..

But I still stick to this being a gray area if a online business outside of Thailand is working in Thailand..or what is a tourist for that matter.

To the OP, my opinion it's not really an issue..

I'd be more concerned about avoiding overstay and not falling in love with a bargirl while he's here.

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There are people that are living in Thailand on a tourist visa...I think legally they are not tourists...they are living here..maybe they own or rent a condo/apartment.

So what?

Does somebody on a double or triple entry tourist visa HAVE to stay in a hotel paying through the nose for what could potentially be a 9 month stay? Why wouldn't you rent a condo or an apartment on a 6 month lease?

If you're on one of those visas, then, to all intents and purposes, you ARE living here.

I've yet to hear of an online worker with income derived from sources other than Thailand being hauled off to court, deported and blacklisted. That happens to people who are caught, bang to rights, at a place of work with a telephone receiver in their hands not to the bloke writing articles, trading stocks or doing web design for clients in the US or Europe from his laptop in his apartment.

Sorry but that's the reality of the situation and I wouldn't be surprised if the Thai authorites realise that it might be better to come up with a visa option that allows these folks to work legally and pay some bloody tax.

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The money the Thai Government might gain from allowing lone wolf on line workers to work legally may pale in comparison to the money they might lose from big time investors who don't want the fly-by-nighters around -- and my guess is that they realize this right now and the status quo is just fine with them.

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There are people that are living in Thailand on a tourist visa...I think legally they are not tourists...they are living here..maybe they own or rent a condo/apartment.

So what?

Does somebody on a double or triple entry tourist visa HAVE to stay in a hotel paying through the nose for what could potentially be a 9 month stay? Why wouldn't you rent a condo or an apartment on a 6 month lease?

If you're on one of those visas, then, to all intents and purposes, you ARE living here.

I've yet to hear of an online worker with income derived from sources other than Thailand being hauled off to court, deported and blacklisted. That happens to people who are caught, bang to rights, at a place of work with a telephone receiver in their hands not to the bloke writing articles, trading stocks or doing web design for clients in the US or Europe from his laptop in his apartment.

Sorry but that's the reality of the situation and I wouldn't be surprised if the Thai authorites realise that it might be better to come up with a visa option that allows these folks to work legally and pay some bloody tax.

That was the point I was trying to make..so what?

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If I could just ping your profiles to let You know how much I love this discussion..

j.l., cypress, franz..and what's the point, dude..

Pricless..

Can You belive I'm stuck in Hawaii with no money.. [on my own forest land] and I'm reading this..out of all the world's knowledge, I choose this! Pricless.

alohz

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It's clear that the OP "Would like to return to Thailand with the option of staying 6 months to indefinitely and work from Thailand" (his words) for which, if he wishes to be 100% legal, he needs a work permit (Black & White, no shades of grey) so discussions about Business men answering the odd phone call/email would be irrelevant here.

Yes he probably would never get caught using Back-2-Back Tourist/Education Visas But I get the impression that the OP is someways of hitting 50 so how long would these last (ED 3 years max) and it only takes one Immigration official to #Suspect# (no proof required) that he's working in Thailand for it all to be over.

I've read that there is scope via a BOI/Umbrella company to get legal, this comes with a 20-25% "Tax" burden, but that's the price you need to pay if you want to be legal in these circumstances & should be able to offset it against Tax payable in your own country (assuming tax is being paid).

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I just noticed post #98 that starts out I disagree with you completely. People who are working on line on their business or for clients outside of Thailand keep saying such activities should be made legit as that is today the way-of-the-interconnected-world. The Thai government hasn't made such changes because IMHO they want to tell the big investors in online and software support/services that they are not encouraging lots of smaller persons getting by with no investment.

As to what a Thai IMM official might want to see to 'prove' one is not working in Thailand -- they ask you; you give an answer; if they like your answer OK and if not it goes down the chain.

Edited by JLCrab
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I just noticed post #98 that starts out I disagree with you completely. People who are working on line on their business or for clients outside of Thailand keep saying such activities should be made legit as that is today the way-of-the-interconnected-world. The Thai government hasn't made such changes because IMHO they want to tell the big investors in online and software support/services that they are not encouraging lots of smaller persons getting by with no investment.

As to what a Thai IMM official might want to see to 'prove' one is not working in Thailand -- they ask you; you give an answer; if they like your answer OK and if not it goes down the chain.

Let's suppose they did allow it and made legit, would said on liners be prepared to pay tax in thailand, pay into the unemployment fund, pay for their own medical insurances, pay for monthly accounting services, pay for their own WP's , pay for company registration etc

My money is on the vast majority wouldn't, simply because they are only just masking enough money to finance their lives in Thailand as it is now

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I just noticed post #98 that starts out I disagree with you completely. People who are working on line on their business or for clients outside of Thailand keep saying such activities should be made legit as that is today the way-of-the-interconnected-world. The Thai government hasn't made such changes because IMHO they want to tell the big investors in online and software support/services that they are not encouraging lots of smaller persons getting by with no investment.

As to what a Thai IMM official might want to see to 'prove' one is not working in Thailand -- they ask you; you give an answer; if they like your answer OK and if not it goes down the chain.

Let's suppose they did allow it and made legit, would said on liners be prepared to pay tax in thailand, pay into the unemployment fund, pay for their own medical insurances, pay for monthly accounting services, pay for their own WP's , pay for company registration etc

My money is on the vast majority wouldn't, simply because they are only just masking enough money to finance their lives in Thailand as it is now

Well, gosh darn it. Of course not.

Under those conditions, I could go someplace much nicer.

Edited by impulse
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<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I just noticed post #98 that starts out I disagree with you completely. People who are working on line on their business or for clients outside of Thailand keep saying such activities should be made legit as that is today the way-of-the-interconnected-world. The Thai government hasn't made such changes because IMHO they want to tell the big investors in online and software support/services that they are not encouraging lots of smaller persons getting by with no investment.

As to what a Thai IMM official might want to see to 'prove' one is not working in Thailand -- they ask you; you give an answer; if they like your answer OK and if not it goes down the chain.


Let's suppose they did allow it and made legit, would said on liners be prepared to pay tax in thailand, pay into the unemployment fund, pay for their own medical insurances, pay for monthly accounting services, pay for their own WP's , pay for company registration etc

My money is on the vast majority wouldn't, simply because they are only just masking enough money to finance their lives in Thailand as it is now

No that's what you'd LIKE to think.

I think most people would be happy to pay up for legitimacy.

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I just noticed post #98 that starts out I disagree with you completely. People who are working on line on their business or for clients outside of Thailand keep saying such activities should be made legit as that is today the way-of-the-interconnected-world. The Thai government hasn't made such changes because IMHO they want to tell the big investors in online and software support/services that they are not encouraging lots of smaller persons getting by with no investment.

As to what a Thai IMM official might want to see to 'prove' one is not working in Thailand -- they ask you; you give an answer; if they like your answer OK and if not it goes down the chain.

Let's suppose they did allow it and made legit, would said on liners be prepared to pay tax in thailand, pay into the unemployment fund, pay for their own medical insurances, pay for monthly accounting services, pay for their own WP's , pay for company registration etc

My money is on the vast majority wouldn't, simply because they are only just masking enough money to finance their lives in Thailand as it is now

No that's what you'd LIKE to think.

I think most people would be happy to pay up for legitimacy.

Well yes of course...... its my opinion, I did say "my money is on"

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I just noticed post #98 that starts out I disagree with you completely. People who are working on line on their business or for clients outside of Thailand keep saying such activities should be made legit as that is today the way-of-the-interconnected-world. The Thai government hasn't made such changes because IMHO they want to tell the big investors in online and software support/services that they are not encouraging lots of smaller persons getting by with no investment.

As to what a Thai IMM official might want to see to 'prove' one is not working in Thailand -- they ask you; you give an answer; if they like your answer OK and if not it goes down the chain.

Let's suppose they did allow it and made legit, would said on liners be prepared to pay tax in thailand, pay into the unemployment fund, pay for their own medical insurances, pay for monthly accounting services, pay for their own WP's , pay for company registration etc

My money is on the vast majority wouldn't, simply because they are only just masking enough money to finance their lives in Thailand as it is now

That's right, most of the people I know only stay in Thailand a few months every year and the small income they get from their online business will pay for the food and rent, not much more. Or if you live here 12 months , same same.

And working freelance can be tough, some months you earn almost nothing, yes I have some knowledge about this

A freelancer working abroad can always move to a new country. But as long as there is access to an internet line we will stay here , until something really bad happens to this country.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited by balo
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I just noticed post #98 that starts out I disagree with you completely. People who are working on line on their business or for clients outside of Thailand keep saying such activities should be made legit as that is today the way-of-the-interconnected-world. The Thai government hasn't made such changes because IMHO they want to tell the big investors in online and software support/services that they are not encouraging lots of smaller persons getting by with no investment.

As to what a Thai IMM official might want to see to 'prove' one is not working in Thailand -- they ask you; you give an answer; if they like your answer OK and if not it goes down the chain.

Let's suppose they did allow it and made legit, would said on liners be prepared to pay tax in thailand, pay into the unemployment fund, pay for their own medical insurances, pay for monthly accounting services, pay for their own WP's , pay for company registration etc

My money is on the vast majority wouldn't, simply because they are only just masking enough money to finance their lives in Thailand as it is now

That's right, most of the people I know only stay in Thailand a few months every year and the small income they get from their online business will pay for the food and rent, not much more. Or if you live here 12 months , same same.

And working freelance can be tough, some months you earn almost nothing, yes I have some knowledge about this

A freelancer working abroad can always move to a new country. But as long as there is access to an internet line we will stay here , until something really bad happens to this country.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Ok so let me ask you this suppose Thailand would let you have a work permit if you set up say a THB 1 million Ltd company, paid a withholding tax (assuming income earned outside Thailand) paid your unemployment, private medical, monthly/ annual accounting. Fees, company fees etc.....do you believe the vast majority of on liners would get legal ?

I don't think so personally

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I just noticed post #98 that starts out I disagree with you completely. People who are working on line on their business or for clients outside of Thailand keep saying such activities should be made legit as that is today the way-of-the-interconnected-world. The Thai government hasn't made such changes because IMHO they want to tell the big investors in online and software support/services that they are not encouraging lots of smaller persons getting by with no investment.

As to what a Thai IMM official might want to see to 'prove' one is not working in Thailand -- they ask you; you give an answer; if they like your answer OK and if not it goes down the chain.

Let's suppose they did allow it and made legit, would said on liners be prepared to pay tax in thailand, pay into the unemployment fund, pay for their own medical insurances, pay for monthly accounting services, pay for their own WP's , pay for company registration etc

My money is on the vast majority wouldn't, simply because they are only just masking enough money to finance their lives in Thailand as it is now

That's right, most of the people I know only stay in Thailand a few months every year and the small income they get from their online business will pay for the food and rent, not much more. Or if you live here 12 months , same same.

And working freelance can be tough, some months you earn almost nothing, yes I have some knowledge about this

A freelancer working abroad can always move to a new country. But as long as there is access to an internet line we will stay here , until something really bad happens to this country.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Ok so let me ask you this suppose Thailand would let you have a work permit if you set up say a THB 1 million Ltd company, paid a withholding tax (assuming income earned outside Thailand) paid your unemployment, private medical, monthly/ annual accounting. Fees, company fees etc.....do you believe the vast majority of on liners would get legal ?

I don't think so personally

No chance , unless you decide to live in Thailand for a long time and have a good business to take care of.

Most people, maybe 90% of the people working online stay here temporarily, and then move on.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited by balo
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Have you heard about the Norwegian author Jon Nesbo ? He wrote a worldwide bestseller while he was staying in Thailand on a tourist visa. So he wrote a book in Thailand and earned millions on it. Yes this is a grey area, if someone tipped the immigration about this he might be in trouble or maybe not.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited by balo
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I live in Thailand, but work outside of Thailand on a rotational basis. Occasionally my company sends me to our office in Thailand. While there, I check emails and do company business. I do this on a "B" visa. The company I work for uses a very large international law firm. They indicated I am not breaking any Thai immigration or labor laws.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

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I live in Thailand, but work outside of Thailand on a rotational basis. Occasionally my company sends me to our office in Thailand. While there, I check emails and do company business. I do this on a "B" visa. The company I work for uses a very large international law firm. They indicated I am not breaking any Thai immigration or labor laws.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Let's just say this is a bit of a grey area even for immigration, in similar circumstances some of MNC,s get people temporary WP so there is no debate, but strictly speaking one suspects your working illegally

BTW the law firm can only offer an opinion your not breaking the law, its not definitive, only the DOL can answer that question

Edited by Soutpeel
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If the OP chooses to do what you sound like you want to do, you’ll be one of thousands of foreigners making their living on the interweb in Thailand. They’re working illegally, but as it stands they have very low probability of getting caught and deported as long as they keep it on the interweb.

...

And sooner or later, Thailand is going to do a deal with the NSA (and the IRS) to catch all the interweb guys working illegally from Thailand- if only to get the taxes they should have been paying.

What is the 'interweb'?

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If the OP chooses to do what you sound like you want to do, you’ll be one of thousands of foreigners making their living on the interweb in Thailand. They’re working illegally, but as it stands they have very low probability of getting caught and deported as long as they keep it on the interweb.

...

And sooner or later, Thailand is going to do a deal with the NSA (and the IRS) to catch all the interweb guys working illegally from Thailand- if only to get the taxes they should have been paying.

What is the 'interweb'?

More to the point, The NSA and IRS have no jurisdiction over non US citizens, so maybe impulse should rephrase his comment, and say they will go after US citizens working illegally from Thailand, all other nationalities can tell the IRS to kiss their posteriors

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I know there is no point in it if you think about things changing.

Nothing is changing in Thailand in the near future regarding this topic since there is no political will to do so.

In my opinion this is a big mistake ... especially in regards to ASEAN and upcoming neighboring countries with more small-business-friendly politics.

Still, it is an interesting topic. And why should we not argue about it.

Non-Amercians are arguing about the US weapon laws for example and compaing them to Europe. Can they change them? No.

So we talk about many things we cannot change every day. Thanks god we still do.

These 'ASEAN and upcoming neighbouring countries' wouldn't be Myanmar and Cambodia would it? They are years and years behind Thailand and light-years behind the west but certainly could be a home to the self-supporting, savvy, experienced and businesslike web entrepreneur. Somehow I doubt that many of the nouveau webworkers have all those prerequisites.

When Thailand does loosen the controls, there will be enough semi-skilled but fast-learning and overwhelmingly CHEAPER than American and European online businessmen from 'ASEAN and upcoming neighbouring countries' to take up any slack. The time to be the western whiz kid making millions on the internet in the Orient has passed already.

Edited by NanLaew
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