A Lot Of Crime In Thailand

[Ling Kae]

It is of the very disturbing story of the Australian girl being shot in Kanchanaburi that I am pressed to write this. I have been coming to Thailand for many years and I am at present here for a further 3 Months.

What I find hard to understand is that to own a gun it is illegal and my Thai partner told me that being caught with an unlicensed weapon here can land you in prison for 3 or 4 years. I here of tit for tat shootings all the time and Thailand has the 3rd worst record for gun related murders in the world.

With such hard laws why does there seem to be so many weapons about and why do the authorities not do more about it? Surely when the police are tipped off that a gang or an individual is known to have weapons why don't they just simply arrest them and lock them away? It seems that if a cop has a private agenda to get someone they will with certainty but for some reason when the crime does not affect them personally they don't do a great deal.

My partner and I went for a walk in a fitness park at the bottom of the Buddha on the hill and when we stopped for a rest a young Thai guy on a motorbike road up. He asked my partner for 20 baht to which she replied that we were excerising and had no money, he then asked "What about the farang" to which I replied in English and said I had no money. He then threatened my partner and said he will be back with his friends soon don't go anywhere. We went straight to the Police box and reported it. We woke up one cop and the other was not really interested but they did get on their MC and go look for the guy, he was gone.

Why is it Thais are so pathetically weak on their own and always have to do things in gangs or with firearms? This was just us 2 who are almost 50 YO, give us a break. No respect for elders or even their own people, it's sad but thank God/Buddha this doesn't happen to us everyday.

[Jai Dee]

Just before people start with negative stories and comments... I thought I'd post a public warning here.

Thai-bashing and anti-Thai sentiment has no place on this forum.

Please consider carefully before posting.

[Scott]

I've been having a discussion/argument with a co-worker about crime in Thailand. The basic jest of the discussion is that one person says it's higher in the provinces, the other says it's higher in Bangkok.

Anybody know where the most crime is and where the real danger spots are? (Minus the southern provinces).

[Mighty Mouse]

Thailand is no different to anywhere else in the world.

Here in Australia we have Middle Eastern gangs, Asian gangs, Aussie gangs etc...all are armed and most can be dangerous.

In Sydney we have drive by shootings almost every week, so the Bangkok shooting is part of normal criminal behaviour.

Laws are not a deterrent to crime. Tough laws are there to ensure criminal spend a longer time in prison, if and when they are caught and convicted.

It's the same as traffic laws. They may deter some motorists, but the vast majority of motorists take their chances by driving unlawfully.

Police know straight away what the chances are of apprehending criminals. If the evidence is strong enough, they will be successful. If you only have a skinny description of an offender, the chances of locating such an offender are not great, hence the police can't do very much.

This may give you the impression that they are not interested or concerned, but realistically they don't possess superman powers. (or Mighty Mouse powers for that matter.)

There will always be more criminals numbers than police numbers. They say that crime doesn't pay, but when you look at the statistics, I'm not so sure.

[Gumballl]

In any country where there is a growing disparity between the "haves" and the "have-nots", there will be crime. Many times crime is driven by envy, hence the reason for theft. Some others attribute it to drugs, others to mere extortion (e.g. mafia).

If you think that LOS is bad, check out this report on MS-13 here in the US and Central America. Imagine if something like this gang were to exist in LOS. I really do not think the Thai police force would be up to the challenge.

[Sing_Sling]

Crime?

Almost unheard of here . . . (and when it does happen there are almost always Thais, mainland Chinese, Malaysians, Banglas involved)

Kind of a nice feeling living in a place where you really need have no fear whatsoever of something happening to you.

Majulah Singapura!

I think it's inherently a matter of not enforcing the law, and in Thailand's case where criminal activity is all around in the form of corruption - - - how can one respect the LAW, especially if the ones meant to uphold the law are abusing it.

[Donz]

Just before people start with negative stories and comments... I thought I'd post a public warning here.

Thai-bashing and anti-Thai sentiment has no place on this forum.

Please consider carefully before posting.

Nice, this should be put in the rules too.

[Thaiboxer]

Laws don't do anything unless they are enforced. On top of that, many laws simply do not make much sense. Here's an example: if a cop pulls you over anywhere in Thailand they're supposed to take your license to the local police office which means you need to go there and pay to get it back. It makes much more sense to just slip the cop a hundred baht or so and be on your way. In the States, they'll write you a ticket and give the license back; it's all computerized so whoever decides not to pay within 30 days is in trouble. With all the corruption here, many people simply buy their way out of trouble...like the guy whose son shot some other guy in a nightclub; he got away with murder for a mere 1,000 baht!

[sbk]

Just before people start with negative stories and comments... I thought I'd post a public warning here.

Thai-bashing and anti-Thai sentiment has no place on this forum.

Please consider carefully before posting.

Nice, this should be put in the rules too.

It is

I think the biggest problem Thailand faces is an underpaid, poorly trained, and under educated police force. It is difficult to attract any good people to the police when an honest person knows he won't make much money and a dishonest one knows he can make quite a bit with his dishonesty.

Also, at least where I live, the police rarely patrol and are only around after a crime has been committed (or when they can set up a roadblock to check for licenses, helmets and drugs or guns). And even then they don't seem aware of basic investigation techniques.

[camerata]

What I find strange about the current increase in youth crime in Thailand is that it hasn't come about because of increased rights for criminals, as has happened in the West. Here we have an increasingly autocratic government that arbitrarily censors the Internet, muzzles the media, ignores the Constitution, blows away suspected drug dealers and talks seriously about a 10pm curfew for kids under 18 - and yet the crime increases.

Until recently, there was hardly any graffiti in central Bangkok. Now it's everywhere.

[Stephen Cleary]

Well, if poor old Ling Kae thinks the Thais are bad - then go check out the Farangs in Chiang Mai - whole bunch of imported unfriendly delinquents up there!

For verification of this - kindly PM Mr. Kozi's Thai wife, she will give you the lowdown.

like the guy whose son shot some other guy in a nightclub; he got away with murder for a mere 1,000 baht! (Thai boxer)

1,000 baht to get away with murder? That's darned new news to me!!

[Galong]

Just before people start with negative stories and comments... I thought I'd post a public warning here.

Thai-bashing and anti-Thai sentiment has no place on this forum.

Please consider carefully before posting.

Oh please... This forum is one of the few places we can vent or frustration. If we can't say things that YOU feel are thai-bashing or anti-thai, then please remove me from this forum.

Depending on how you look at it, almost every post could be seen as thai-bashing.

[Jai Dee]

From the Forum Rules:

3) Religious or racial slurs, rude and degrading comments towards women, or extremely negative views of Thailand will not be tolerated.

I don't make the rules... but it is part of my responsibility as a moderator of ThaiVisa to enforce them.

Thanks for your understanding.

[ColPyat]

What I find strange about the current increase in youth crime in Thailand is that it hasn't come about because of increased rights for criminals, as has happened in the West. Here we have an increasingly autocratic government that arbitrarily censors the Internet, muzzles the media, ignores the Constitution, blows away suspected drug dealers and talks seriously about a 10pm curfew for kids under 18 - and yet the crime increases.

Until recently, there was hardly any graffiti in central Bangkok. Now it's everywhere.

Personally, i find nothing strange about the rise of youth crime.

It is a logic result of industrialisation without any plan to minimise the social impact. The hotspots for youth gang violence are in industrial suburbs with large amounts of migrants from upcountry. In those areas the living conditions are terrible, and in many of those areas police is clearly overwhelmed by the massive problem.

Expect a lot more in the future. We are just at the beginning.

[BongBong]

Generally it is quite safe in Thailand, that is why we are still here.

[qualtrough]

Any potential mugger who asks for a mere 20 Baht and then accepts 'No' for an answer needs to find another line of work. If you run into him again say 'Boo' and see what happens!

Agree with BongBong. Many farangs are probably safer here crime-wise than they would be back in their home countries.

[ColPyat]

Generally it is quite safe in Thailand, that is why we are still here.

Generally, it is very unsafe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones, which are highly policed by uniformed and plainclothes police. The ones who move out of those areas are mostly westerners with Thai family, who move around there within the boundaries of influence of their families, and will therefore hardly be affected by the crime and violence.

If one does not believe in international comparism very high crime statistics, please watch or read Thai news, which are far more graphic and revealing about local crime issues than the local English language media.

Or spend some time in the living areas of the industrial zones surrounding Bangkok - this might rapidly change the positive perception one has about Thailand's safety issues.

[Tarragona]

Or spend some time in the living areas of the industrial zones surrounding Bangkok - this might rapidly change the positive perception one has about Thailand's safety issues.

I do and it doesn't. That's not to say there's nothing to worry about but I don't think there is anything inherently worse here than in many western countries.

[Jai Dee]

Generally, it is very unsafe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones, which are highly policed by uniformed and plainclothes police. The ones who move out of those areas are mostly westerners with Thai family, who move around there within the boundaries of influence of their families, and will therefore hardly be affected by the crime and violence.

What a trollish post and rash generalisation.

I thought you were made of better stuff than that ColPyat.

[GuestHouse]

The problem with discussing this issue is that of “Perception”.

A foreigner (and especially one who does not speak or read Thai), will not receive the same breadth of information relating to crime and risks of crime in Thailand to the same extent as they would at home.

The truth of this can be demonstrated by asking a Foreigner who is married to a Thai about their perceived level of Crime Risk and then ask the same question of the Foreigner’s Thai spouse.

I’ll wager those of you with Thai wives have widely different views of crime in Thailand than your wife does.

As for people who claim they were more at risk of crime back home, that can be a number of things:

Firstly it can be proof of my argument above that we are more aware of crime and the risks of crime in our own society/culture.

Secondly there is the real psychological issue of adjusting to a new country where the immigrant over compensates for his new surroundings, praising his new home and denigrating his origins in a re-affirmation of his choice.

Thirdly, well it’s like those stories of how boring life was before Thailand, you sometimes have to figure some people really have had it rough in the past.

[ColPyat]

Or spend some time in the living areas of the industrial zones surrounding Bangkok - this might rapidly change the positive perception one has about Thailand's safety issues.

I do and it doesn't. That's not to say there's nothing to worry about but I don't think there is anything inherently worse here than in many western countries.

You mean, nothing worse than that Thailand has a far higher murder rate than any western country.

Which living areas do you spend your time in, if i may ask?

The walled in upper class Mu Ban's with security around the clock - or the Fat's, the slums, and the cheapo Mu Bans?

Ever been at the concerts or temple festivals of those areas, at the karaokes late night, at the illegal motorcycle races?

[ColPyat]

Generally, it is very unsafe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones, which are highly policed by uniformed and plainclothes police. The ones who move out of those areas are mostly westerners with Thai family, who move around there within the boundaries of influence of their families, and will therefore hardly be affected by the crime and violence.

What a trollish post and rash generalisation.

I thought you were made of better stuff than that ColPyat.

Trollish post? Nice...

And i thought you were made from better stuff than trowing around with accusations without any recognisable reasoning.

But what is the problem whenever the topic of crime and violence is mentioned?

Is it that for some here any mentioning of Thailand being a country with a serious crime and violence problem means a threat against their illusions having found the "Land of Smile" that is so much better than where they came from?

So, do me the favour and point out where i was wrong in my post, and why. That is generally leading to a interesting discussion. Being called a "troll" leads to unnecessary aggrevation. [Flame statement edited out. /Meadish]

[ColPyat]

The problem with discussing this issue is that of “Perception”.

A foreigner (and especially one who does not speak or read Thai), will not receive the same breadth of information relating to crime and risks of crime in Thailand to the same extent as they would at home.

The truth of this can be demonstrated by asking a Foreigner who is married to a Thai about their perceived level of Crime Risk and then ask the same question of the Foreigner’s Thai spouse.

I’ll wager those of you with Thai wives have widely different views of crime in Thailand than your wife does.

As for people who claim they were more at risk of crime back home, that can be a number of things:

Firstly it can be proof of my argument above that we are more aware of crime and the risks of crime in our own society/culture.

Secondly there is the real psychological issue of adjusting to a new country where the immigrant over compensates for his new surroundings, praising his new home and denigrating his origins in a re-affirmation of his choice.

Thirdly, well it’s like those stories of how boring life was before Thailand, you sometimes have to figure some people really have had it rough in the past.

Excellent post!

[Tarragona]

Ever been at the concerts or temple festivals of those areas, at the karaokes late night, at the illegal motorcycle races?

Yes - many many times (seen a number of fights, a couple of stabbings. I usually go to concerts with a couple of guys from the motorcy 'win'. Interestingly I have been at temple fair concerts where there was absolutely no trouble and the next day someone tells me about the mass brawl and murders etc., etc. - which just didn't happen.)

Yes - I do the karaoke bars sometimes.

No - never been to the races.

I'm not trying to argue that you don't need to take care but I also don't think there's any need to suggest that if you go to a temple fair in deepest darkest Samutprakan you likely to become a victim of violent crime.

I know about the murder rates. I would be interested to know about rates of random violence or violence against total strangers.

Edited June 21, 2006 by Tarragona

[ColPyat]

Ever been at the concerts or temple festivals of those areas, at the karaokes late night, at the illegal motorcycle races?

Yes - many many times (seen a number of fights, a couple of stabbings. I usually go to concerts with a couple of guys from the motorcy 'win'. Interestingly I have been at temple fair concerts where there was absolutely no trouble and the next day someone tells me about the mass brawl and murders etc., etc. - which just didn't happen.)

Yes - I do the karaoke bars sometimes.

No - never been to the races.

I know about the murder rates but I would be interested to know about rates of random violence or violence against total strangers.

The rates of random violence are steadily increasing. Sorry, no statistics to support it, but personal experience.

Sometimes these mass brawls only start at the concert, or fair, and will be continued and finished outside. I have seen some of those.

Have a look at the races - they are something, especially at the big nights. Best time is after 2 am.

[sriracha john]

Generally, it is very unsafe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones, which are highly policed by uniformed and plainclothes police. The ones who move out of those areas are mostly westerners with Thai family, who move around there within the boundaries of influence of their families, and will therefore hardly be affected by the crime and violence.

What a trollish post and rash generalisation.

I thought you were made of better stuff than that ColPyat.

Trollish post? Nice...

Being called a "troll" leads to unnecessary aggrevation. Especially because then the usual yapping slimeballs

Forum Rules

Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum...

The word, or its derivative, "trolling", is used to describe such messages or the act of posting them.

[Sakeopete]

Generally it is quite safe in Thailand, that is why we are still here.

Generally, it is very unsafe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones, which are highly policed by uniformed and plainclothes police. The ones who move out of those areas are mostly westerners with Thai family, who move around there within the boundaries of influence of their families, and will therefore hardly be affected by the crime and violence.

If one does not believe in international comparism very high crime statistics, please watch or read Thai news, which are far more graphic and revealing about local crime issues than the local English language media.

Or spend some time in the living areas of the industrial zones surrounding Bangkok - this might rapidly change the positive perception one has about Thailand's safety issues.

I tend to agree with you I've been living in a small village for years and the crime in the area is very high. There have been a couple of murders between the rural folk and the police tend to do nothing about it. I asked my wife why and she says the police will only put effort into investigating if the victim was influential or the family has tea money available to donate. The majority of crime I have seen and heard of has been drunken violence especially with knives and theft. I don't feel threatened because I stay clear of Thais drinking and keep a low profile not flaunting perceived wealth in their faces. Though we have new vehicles and a house my wife tells everyone that they are financed and we have several years of payments to make. Also Thais know that any violent crime against a foreigner brings media hence government attention and they are more likely to get caught.

[Jai Dee]

Generally, it is very unsafe safe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners as well as Thais are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones their usual stomping grounds, which are highly may or may not be policed by uniformed and plainclothes police.

Edited rash generalisation.

I (and I know of others like me) have walked alone through the slums of Din Daeng and Klong Toey, the back streets of Samut Prakarn, the small village sois in Isaan, Trat, Songkhla... and many other provinces, Patpong 1 and 2, Walking Street, the Cambodia-Thai border markets, the Laos-Thai border markets, the Myanmar-Thai border markets, as well as the bustling city streets of Bangkok... mostly without a policeman anywhere in sight.

Last year I went to the outdoor Linkin Park concert at Impact Arena... and when I was stationed in Bangkok I regularly went to Thai nightclubs and bars in preference to the lower Sukhumvit area. I am now a regular attendee at many of the Thai nightclubs on Pattaya's 3rd road.

I have never been accosted.

[Ling Kae]

Generally, it is very unsafe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones, which are highly policed by uniformed and plainclothes police. The ones who move out of those areas are mostly westerners with Thai family, who move around there within the boundaries of influence of their families, and will therefore hardly be affected by the crime and violence.

If one does not believe in international comparism very high crime statistics, please watch or read Thai news, which are far more graphic and revealing about local crime issues than the local English language media.

Or spend some time in the living areas of the industrial zones surrounding Bangkok - this might rapidly change the positive perception one has about Thailand's safety issues.

I tend to agree with you I've been living in a small village for years and the crime in the area is very high. There have been a couple of murders between the rural folk and the police tend to do nothing about it. I asked my wife why and she says the police will only put effort into investigating if the victim was influential or the family has tea money available to donate. The majority of crime I have seen and heard of has been drunken violence especially with knives and theft. I don't feel threatened because I stay clear of Thais drinking and keep a low profile not flaunting perceived wealth in their faces. Though we have new vehicles and a house my wife tells everyone that they are financed and we have several years of payments to make. Also Thais know that any violent crime against a foreigner brings media hence government attention and they are more likely to get caught.

Sakeopete thanks for your thoughts you seem to answering the questions I raised very well. The thing is that the Police are not stupid they know what is going on. They are getting info all the time on who is doing what but the problem seems to lie with who knows the higher up cop. Nearly everytime something goes belly up it seems that the person that can call up the highest ranking friend in the Police Force wins the fight. It is just Police corruption and we all know it goes on.

The other day I was riding my MC innocently down the highway when I came across a Police Road block. They were pulling over everybody and I was one of them. He asked for my license at which time my partner went to get it out of her handbag, the cop said his not yours but in fact she was pulling out my 5 year license. The cop thought I'd be a soft touch but after viewing my license the good cop said ok, his partner looked at me and said "money" in English. I just ignored him and looked at his partner and said OK? He said ok. The bad cop still tried to get money out of me even though I had done nothing wrong.

This is not Thai bashing, these are the facts of the Thai Police force, corruption is rife and as long as it continues the crime problem will only escalate. Thanks for your input everyone, I guess the reason we do talk about it so much is because we do love Thailand and we just want it to be an even better place.

[ProfessorFart]

Only so far westerners are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones, which are highly policed by uniformed and plainclothes police. The ones who move out of those areas are mostly westerners with Thai family, who move around there within the boundaries of influence of their families, and will therefore hardly be affected by the crime and violence.

Nonsense. You make it sound like the Wild West.

Most Thais are good, decent people the same as are found the World over. As in every country in the world, there is always a minority of fools out looking for trouble. Thailand is no different but it is certainly nowhere near as bad as some places I could mention. Try visiting an English town Centre on a Friday night then report back here.