A Lot Of Crime In Thailand

[Phil Conners]

Sakeopete thanks for your thoughts you seem to answering the questions I raised very well. The thing is that the Police are not stupid they know what is going on. They are getting info all the time on who is doing what but the problem seems to lie with who knows the higher up cop. Nearly everytime something goes belly up it seems that the person that can call up the highest ranking friend in the Police Force wins the fight. It is just Police corruption and we all know it goes on.

The other day I was riding my MC innocently down the highway when I came across a Police Road block. They were pulling over everybody and I was one of them. He asked for my license at which time my partner went to get it out of her handbag, the cop said his not yours but in fact she was pulling out my 5 year license. The cop thought I'd be a soft touch but after viewing my license the good cop said ok, his partner looked at me and said "money" in English. I just ignored him and looked at his partner and said OK? He said ok. The bad cop still tried to get money out of me even though I had done nothing wrong.

This is not Thai bashing, these are the facts of the Thai Police force, corruption is rife and as long as it continues the crime problem will only escalate. Thanks for your input everyone, I guess the reason we do talk about it so much is because we do love Thailand and we just want it to be an even better place.

Excellent post!

Edited June 21, 2006 by madsere

[Donz]

Cops in thailand would never get a penny from me. I can get a special card

[a2396]

In general, I feel considerable safer in Thailand than in my own USA. No doubt Thais can get violent, but I think the level of "acting out" of violence is much less than back home. I think has to do some wth the importance of politeness and avoidance of confrontation that is a cultural characteristic here. These are not American traits and in my opinion the difference is evident. I am surprised at the availability of handguns in Thailand and think the regs need to tightened. Overall I feel safe here, but stay away from late night drinking and carousing places populated by the locals. I don't go out to secluded ATM's late at night and I would not do that back home either.

[Donz]

Im safe where ever I am in the world

[Ijustwannateach]

The way I see it there are laws on the books about almost everything- even more strict than many Western nations- but they rarely get enforced across the board. Instead they have these periodic "crackdowns" where they pay attention to one law or another that hasn't been enforced in a long time. If you don't hear about it or can't "get straight" before you get caught, they stand to cash in on fines, bribes, etc.

Unfortunately, this has the overall effect of making Thailand seem to be outside the "normal" rule of law- which, depending on the subject matter, it often is. No long term benefits can arise to the general population from having law enforced only by status or whim.

I'd say that random crime and violence here is less of a problem (at least for foreigners) than in many other places- but that is true in part (ironically) because certain police are indirectly or directly involved in much of the crime. If you stay out of the rackets, you don't get the attention of undesirable types.

The solution, of course, is to pay the police enough that they can have families and enjoy life while doing their jobs for the principle of it, more than the profit. A decent pruning of the unnecessary laws put on the books over the years for purposes of graft collection would also help.

I think the police have a certain "face" to maintain- no one wants murderers or psychos to rampage through the city- but their investigative skills and forensic tools are limited, to say the least. They don't even get issued their own guns. A lot of investment and training are called for, along with the higher salaries.

"Steven"

[OZONE]

Generally it is quite safe in Thailand, that is why we are still here.

I tend to agree with you I've been living in a small village for years and the crime in the area is very high.There have been a couple of murders between the rural folk and the police tend to do nothing about it. I asked my wife why and she says the police will only put effort into investigating if the victim was influential or the family has tea money available to donate. The majority of crime I have seen and heard of has been drunken violence especially with knives and theft. I don't feel threatened because I stay clear of Thais drinking and keep a low profile not flaunting perceived wealth in their faces. Though we have new vehicles and a house my wife tells everyone that they are financed and we have several years of payments to make. Also Thais know that any violent crime against a foreigner brings media hence government attention and they are more likely to get caught.

This is one of the most bogus statement made here!

What you're saying is you allowed your family to stayed in violent village and know its unsafe?..Oh pleasee.....any person with common sense would have moved their family out of there and into a safer area. And, give me a break about the police force will only investigate and protect influential family. That is such an old fairry tales. PLease provide some truth for us all to see than I'll buy into it or did you just heard that from another angry thai hating expat? "

BTW, if a violent crime were committed against a foreigner in a small muu baan, I highly doubt the media would make it a feature story. There are thousands of expat curently residing all around these so called Muu baan and the thais are so used to seeing us daily that we (foreigners) are beginning not to be that special anymore eh'.

Like anywhere else in the world, If you stay away from the troubled areas than trouble would most likely stay away from you. Common sense folks!

Edited June 21, 2006 by OZONE

[ROFL]

Im safe where ever I am in the world

You're just asking for trouble, if I were you Id knock on some wood, or burn something, or whatever it is you do to balance your KARMA because your in debt.

[tourleadersi]

I lived in the UK in a pretty posh town for 9 years of my life. During that time I was attacked twice by men with knives, had a gun held to my head as my workplace was robbed and was jumped twice on the street by random nutters. I know the joke... "and my friends call me lucky!"

I did security work at home and in Leeds, and spent a lot of time in the Middle East during times when the local population's tolerance of all things foreign was stretched to the limit. And I'm not talking about a week in Sharm El Sheikh here, try 5 months in the Yemen and 4 months on the Straits of Hormuz near Iran. All I can say is that in my time here in Thailand I have never once felt threatened and have only been hit twice, both times when I helped throw drunk westerners out of my local.

Yes, there is crime in Thailand, but from a purely personal perspective it is safer than anywhere else I have been in the world. I practice the same vigilance I do everywhere else I go. It is often better to swallow pride than blood, and as my Kung <deleted> teacher told me, "The best defence is to not be there." Dont' read that as meaning I am a coward, I have a file of x-rays to confirm I have stood my ground when needed, but it is often better to avoid confrontation at all costs rather than be a hero.

Yes there is crime here in Thailand, but what did you expect? Anyone living here thinking that the country is 100% safe and all is fine and dandy is going to get a pretty hard jolt one day. Don't live in fear, but be aware of your environment.

[ColPyat]

Generally, it is very unsafe safe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners as well as Thais are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones their usual stomping grounds, which are highly may or may not be policed by uniformed and plainclothes police.

Edited rash generalisation.

I (and I know of others like me) have walked alone through the slums of Din Daeng and Klong Toey, the back streets of Samut Prakarn, the small village sois in Isaan, Trat, Songkhla... and many other provinces, Patpong 1 and 2, Walking Street, the Cambodia-Thai border markets, the Laos-Thai border markets, the Myanmar-Thai border markets, as well as the bustling city streets of Bangkok... mostly without a policeman anywhere in sight.

Last year I went to the outdoor Linkin Park concert at Impact Arena... and when I was stationed in Bangkok I regularly went to Thai nightclubs and bars in preference to the lower Sukhumvit area. I am now a regular attendee at many of the Thai nightclubs on Pattaya's 3rd road.

I have never been accosted.

What would it help the debate that as a rescue volonteer i do collect the injured and dead in some of the areas mentioned?

Not much i fear, you appear to have made up your mind already: Thailand is safe because *you* have never been accosted.

Well, the people i collect have been accosted. I guess their perception differs slightly from yours...

[Siripon]

The problem with discussing this issue is that of “Perception”.

A foreigner (and especially one who does not speak or read Thai), will not receive the same breadth of information relating to crime and risks of crime in Thailand to the same extent as they would at home.

The truth of this can be demonstrated by asking a Foreigner who is married to a Thai about their perceived level of Crime Risk and then ask the same question of the Foreigner’s Thai spouse.

I’ll wager those of you with Thai wives have widely different views of crime in Thailand than your wife does.

As for people who claim they were more at risk of crime back home, that can be a number of things:

Firstly it can be proof of my argument above that we are more aware of crime and the risks of crime in our own society/culture.

Secondly there is the real psychological issue of adjusting to a new country where the immigrant over compensates for his new surroundings, praising his new home and denigrating his origins in a re-affirmation of his choice.

Thirdly, well it’s like those stories of how boring life was before Thailand, you sometimes have to figure some people really have had it rough in the past.

Excellent post!

The colonel can't read Thai, he depends on his wife. Thai newspapers usually have one or two stories of violence on their front page, these may be related to dreadful car accidents as in today's edition which features that terrible crash in Prachinburi where a truck piled into a school minibus , killing 5 and injuring 20 and\ or some gruesome murder which is usually related to a business conflict, robbery or is sexually motivated.

Just last week there was the terrible story of the drunk motorcycle taxi driver in Don Muang who raped and killed a Mattayom 4 schoolgirl.

But there's over 60 million people in Thailand, violent crimes are bound to occur, but I would wager there is far less 'senseless' crime in Thailand than in some western countries.

I went to England once, before mobile phones, I was in a public phone booth, no more than a minute, when some teenage girls started hammering on the door, they even opened it: ' hey chinkie, hurry up, f--- off '

Aggression to strangers-'who are you looking at?' vandalism, rudeness-you won't get that in Thailand unless you do something very foolish!

[Sing_Sling]

Generally it is quite safe in Thailand, that is why we are still here.

Somehow I don't believe that personal safety is one of the first factors taken into consideration when deciding on living in Thailand.

Edited June 21, 2006 by Sing_Sling

[Noel]

Cops in thailand would never get a penny from me. I can get a special card

Hmmm, this one...?

[English Noodles]

Cops in thailand would never get a penny from me. I can get a special card

Hmmm, this one...?

No he has this one.

[sriracha john]

The problem with discussing this issue is that of “Perception”.

A foreigner (and especially one who does not speak or read Thai), will not receive the same breadth of information relating to crime and risks of crime in Thailand to the same extent as they would at home.

The truth of this can be demonstrated by asking a Foreigner who is married to a Thai about their perceived level of Crime Risk and then ask the same question of the Foreigner’s Thai spouse.

I’ll wager those of you with Thai wives have widely different views of crime in Thailand than your wife does.

As for people who claim they were more at risk of crime back home, that can be a number of things:

Firstly it can be proof of my argument above that we are more aware of crime and the risks of crime in our own society/culture.

Secondly there is the real psychological issue of adjusting to a new country where the immigrant over compensates for his new surroundings, praising his new home and denigrating his origins in a re-affirmation of his choice.

Thirdly, well it’s like those stories of how boring life was before Thailand, you sometimes have to figure some people really have had it rough in the past.

Excellent post!

The colonel can't read Thai, he depends on his wife. Thai newspapers usually have one or two stories of violence on their front page, these may be related to dreadful car accidents as in today's edition which features that terrible crash in Prachinburi where a truck piled into a school minibus , killing 5 and injuring 20 and\ or some gruesome murder which is usually related to a business conflict, robbery or is sexually motivated.

Just last week there was the terrible story of the drunk motorcycle taxi driver in Don Muang who raped and killed a Mattayom 4 schoolgirl.

But there's over 60 million people in Thailand, violent crimes are bound to occur, but I would wager there is far less 'senseless' crime in Thailand than in some western countries.

I went to England once, before mobile phones, I was in a public phone booth, no more than a minute, when some teenage girls started hammering on the door, they even opened it: ' hey chinkie, hurry up, f--- off '

Aggression to strangers-'who are you looking at?' vandalism, rudeness-you won't get that in Thailand unless you do something very foolish!

You make the excellent point that crime frequency is relative to the population. There are more murders in single cities in the U.S. than in the whole nation of Thailand.

It also points out the shortcomings of Colpyat's points. In a city the size of Samut Prakan in a different country, there are far more ambulances transporting far more victims of crime then he would ever encounter in his stated role (leaving aside for now, the plausibility of him actually even doing this). As there's only a few of these volunteer organizations providing transport, I'm sure it may SEEM there are lots of crime victims, but in reality, given their population, there really are relatively few transportation cases due to crime. Any Western country EMT would see far more crime victims than one would here.

I think far more people have experiences more akin to Jai Dee than to the mayhem that Colpyat chooses to attempt to portray. I know my own are.

[OZONE]

Generally, it is very unsafe safe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners as well as Thais are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones their usual stomping grounds, which are highly may or may not be policed by uniformed and plainclothes police.

Edited rash generalisation.

I (and I know of others like me) have walked alone through the slums of Din Daeng and Klong Toey, the back streets of Samut Prakarn, the small village sois in Isaan, Trat, Songkhla... and many other provinces, Patpong 1 and 2, Walking Street, the Cambodia-Thai border markets, the Laos-Thai border markets, the Myanmar-Thai border markets, as well as the bustling city streets of Bangkok... mostly without a policeman anywhere in sight.

Last year I went to the outdoor Linkin Park concert at Impact Arena... and when I was stationed in Bangkok I regularly went to Thai nightclubs and bars in preference to the lower Sukhumvit area. I am now a regular attendee at many of the Thai nightclubs on Pattaya's 3rd road.

I have never been accosted.

What would it help the debate that as a rescue volonteer i do collect the injured and dead in some of the areas mentioned?

Not much i fear, you appear to have made up your mind already: Thailand is safe because *you* have never been accosted.

Well, the people i collect have been accosted. I guess their perception differs slightly from yours...

If you volunteered I'm sure you still have pictures of yourself in uniform, group photos, incidents happend, Can you please provided to us so we may finally believe you for a change? It seems with every topic, some how, some way youve "done it", did it or happend to you. Please provide us with something so to shut us (me) up.

[tourleadersi]

If you volunteered I'm sure you still have pictures of yourself in uniform, group photos, incidents happend, Can you please provided to us so we may finally believe you for a change? It seems with every topic, some how, some way youve "done it", did it or happend to you. Please provide us with something so to shut us (me) up.

Seems like your hand is being called ColPyat. Can you back up your comments that you are a volunteer?

[jdinasia]

It's clear that the outrageous level of Mayhem CONSTANTLY harped on by some people here just is not very common.

As someone in the thread pointed out way earlier ..... if you live in a dangerous place with your Thai wife .... why the FUKC wouldn't you care enough to get her into a safe® place?

I can't tell you how many times I have wandered around all over Thailand even before I spoke Thai or was able to read Thai etc .. (and not always 100% sober ) and have seen nothing worse than a couple of fights.

Life here is FAR safer than in other places I have lived and likely will continue to be regardless of what the chickens running around saying "The sky is falling" have to say about it.

[ColPyat]

Aggression to strangers-'who are you looking at?' vandalism, rudeness-you won't get that in Thailand unless you do something very foolish!

You mean like, the sort of "mong na haa luang" fights are not happening here in Thailand?

[ColPyat]

Seems like your hand is being called ColPyat. Can you back up your comments that you are a volunteer?

I can do that easily.

But not by plastering my picture over the net.

If you are really that keen to find out - then PM me, and we can meet in person (well - as long as certain conditions are met, such as keeping real life identities off the internet).

[English Noodles]

I tend to agree with Colypat here, people get in to a feeling of security which is infact false. Thai society can be an estremely violent one and there are certain sub cultures within Thai society you wont realise exsist until you fall victim to such.

I'm not saying that Thailand is anymore dangerous or safe than anywhere else but dont fool yourself in to believing that Thailand is not a violent place because it most certainly is.

[Ijustwannateach]

^I think that's part of what I was trying to say above. If you stay away from the gangs and rackets of various sorts, most people are happy to live and let live, and the general public attitude in crowds I find is apathetic to curious to positive. At least, I don't see any grumpy old men trying to stare a hole in me like in Japan (still holding grudges from the war, most likely).

If you want to get involved in gambling, smuggling, pimping, or dealing you're jumping into hot water by choice. Otherwise it's still extremely rare for anyone to get accidentally involved in crime-related violence.

I have heard of some late-night muggings of people walking home from bars downtown Bangkok, but what city of similar size avoids that completely?

If you're a relative newbie to Thailand and don't understand certain social aspects of Thai life, you can make mistakes which can lead to serious trouble if you're an unusually belligerent, confrontational sort of person (it also helps if you're drunk). Encounters between this type of person and drunk Thais in touristy bars account for over 99% of Thai-farang violence that I have known.

"Steven"

[Scott]

I work in one of the suburban-industrialized zones and I can tell you that in the past 5 to 10 years it has become increasingly dangerous --and no, I haven't been accosted. As a supervisor in charge of approximately 70 foreign staff, have seen increasing rates of violence against them. There have always been the low-level criminal activites, but in the past several years an increase in cases of bodily injury resulting in hospitalization as a result of mugging/robbery etc.

I keep track because we have insurance and have to records for them.

This information is still anecdotal, but I am much more careful than in the past and I do warn people to watch themselves.

Overall, reasonable care can avoid a great deal of problems and this is what I advise employees. If your going home after dark and live down a dark soi, take a taxi or motorbike--don't walk. On the main roads and well traveled areas there aren't too many problems.

[wilko]

Although it's very disturbing when you personally experience it , it doesn't mean that there is a lot of crime in Thailand. An idividual experience however unpleasant is not a definitive sample of the crime rate.

[Donz]

Ive never really experience crime in Thailand, the only dispute ive been into in Thailand was in Koh Samui when this loud pom started yelling at his Thai girl saying "You do what I tell you to because i paid you 800 baht" really load and I was pretty drunk and needed to have words with him. So thats the closest ive come to voilence in Thailand.

Ive seen a fight between an american and a Thai where the yank got his head kicked in, but he deserved it, so justice was done there.

Other then that I say its a very safe place. (apart from the south)

[ColPyat]

Although it's very disturbing when you personally experience it , it doesn't mean that there is a lot of crime in Thailand. An idividual experience however unpleasant is not a definitive sample of the crime rate.

Only when personal experience with a high level of crime and violence in Thailand is substantiated with comparative crime statistics that are way beyond any western country.

It only seems that many people, Thai and foreigner equally, prefer to ignore both in order to keep living in an illusionary 'Land of Smile', that most likely never existed outside the heads of romantically challenged dreamers.

[Sakeopete]

Generally it is quite safe in Thailand, that is why we are still here.

I tend to agree with you I've been living in a small village for years and the crime in the area is very high.There have been a couple of murders between the rural folk and the police tend to do nothing about it. I asked my wife why and she says the police will only put effort into investigating if the victim was influential or the family has tea money available to donate. The majority of crime I have seen and heard of has been drunken violence especially with knives and theft. I don't feel threatened because I stay clear of Thais drinking and keep a low profile not flaunting perceived wealth in their faces. Though we have new vehicles and a house my wife tells everyone that they are financed and we have several years of payments to make. Also Thais know that any violent crime against a foreigner brings media hence government attention and they are more likely to get caught.

This is one of the most bogus statement made here!

What you're saying is you allowed your family to stayed in violent village and know its unsafe?..Oh pleasee.....any person with common sense would have moved their family out of there and into a safer area. And, give me a break about the police force will only investigate and protect influential family. That is such an old fairry tales. PLease provide some truth for us all to see than I'll buy into it or did you just heard that from another angry thai hating expat? "

BTW, if a violent crime were committed against a foreigner in a small muu baan, I highly doubt the media would make it a feature story. There are thousands of expat curently residing all around these so called Muu baan and the thais are so used to seeing us daily that we (foreigners) are beginning not to be that special anymore eh'.

Like anywhere else in the world, If you stay away from the troubled areas than trouble would most likely stay away from you. Common sense folks!

I don't think any place in the world is safe and I would bet most rural areas are similar to the area I live in Thailand. I'm not about to move my family from the place they grew up in, as I stated in my post " I don't feel threatened because I stay clear of Thais drinking and keep a low profile not flaunting perceived wealth in their faces." Knowledge or lack of it is what gives us a perception of our community. The media in Thailand cetainly doesn't report what it considers petty crime and I can't remember ever reading about the murder of "Joe Farmer" but you can't honestly believe it doesn't happen. Yet most foriegner that commit suicide or are murdered make the news. Also you miss qouted me "police force will only investigate and protect". As many TV forum members have mentioned in other threads the police are less than intersted in investigating crime. I do agree with you "Like anywhere else in the world, If you stay away from the troubled areas than trouble would most likely stay away from you."

[baboon]

O.K. The only 4 bad experiences I have had.

1.Samui in 1999.A gang followed me back to my hotel clearly after something.After living in london for 15 years,not too bad.

2.1999 again.Hit by an idiot FARANG in a bar in Phuket.The next day THAI friends told me if I were to see him again,let them know and they would give him a bloody good kicking.

3.Chiang Mai last year.Was only there for a couple of days.The natives were very friendly until I went out with a Myanmar t shirt which did not go down well to say the least.

4.Saved the best till last.I was in a restaraunt in Chumphon.The owner who I am on friendly terms with was sitting with a couple of Thai guys.I went to shake hands with them.The first guy met my hand with a warm smile.The second fellah snatched his hand away and scowled.Fair enough,I thought.Later,on his way to the toilet he stopped at my table,glowered and said "Thailand dont want you." I do not know why,but that really upset me.

I am not for or against Thailand on this debate,but thought I would share my experiences with you all to further the thread.

[Donz]

Dont forget in those stats they include all of Thailand which im sure the bulk of it is done down the south near the border. Teachers and police get killed there nearly everyday by shootings etc.

[ColPyat]

Dont forget in those stats they include all of Thailand which im sure the bulk of it is done down the south near the border. Teachers and police get killed there nearly everyday by shootings etc.

Excuse me, but this is simply wrong.

I do know that a fair share of killing and maiming is done in Bangkok and suburbs because i do see the results constantly. A lot of the maiming never even makes it into the statistics as police allows in most cases the families of the opponents sort it out afterwards.

It became even so bad that most drive-by's here don't even get investigated.

Upcountry many murders never get investigated, or even declared as such as police is often reluctant to destabilise the established order between the clans.

[Siripon]

How has the colonel managed to survive all this violence?

Drive- by shootings, maimings in the suburbs of Samut Prakarn where he tirelessly works as a member of Por Tek Teung, collecting victims of spiralling violence.

Unattempted, unsolved murders in the provinces, no doubt including his own province of Chiang Rai where he is faithfully following the King's ideology of self- sufficiency economy.

Plus violence threatened by PAD members when the colonel fearlessly penetrated backstage to investigate the hidden agenda of the leaders.

I think it is high time the colonel was promoted, General or Generalising Polypat sounds far grander.