Stop Tipping The Baht Bus Drivers........

[Lucifer]

They are usually trying to lift your wallet, so no tip necessary.

Now I'm confused. My wallet is in the back pocket, but my p-thaing is in the front. What are they really looking for?

Clearly....nothing.

[Lucifer]

I farang follow wife lead:

she no take coin change back, and always for good luck charity, will donate coin back for chok dee mak. There's usually a Donation box no matter where you are, if only you actually look for it...

Yeah, funny how wives and girlfriends are quite happy to donate YOUR money for some good luck.

[TobyOliver]

yeh and stop tipping bar girls just for cracking open and bringing you a beer !!

I saw a tourist tip 500thb after sitting having 2 beers and the girl didn't even talk to him! I should have asked him if he tipped the bartender in his own country a days wages for the same service.

And what's more, I was in a peppermint the other day (never been before) just wanted to see what the main drag was like now.

One of the girls dancing leans over to me and demands a 100thb tip! What for! What am I tipping for! No money no honey . . yeh well no service no bloody tip!

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[KittenKong]

Whether the taxi drivers make a good living or not is not relevant to this topic.

I think it is. Would anyone tip a doctor or a lawyer or other professional whom they believe has a large salary? I doubt it.

Tipping is normally limited to those who are perceived to have a small income. Of course, the perception may be well off the mark.

OP claims that people tipping drives the price upwards.

It doesn't. It does drive the expectation of a tip upwards though and for this reason it is not a good idea.

I see no reason at all why any public transport following a set route for a set fare should merit a tip, unless the driver does something totally out of the ordinary like getting out of the cab to carry your luggage for you, or driving off his route to take you exactly where you need to go.

[chiang mai]

Whether the taxi drivers make a good living or not is not relevant to this topic. OP claims that people tipping drives the price upwards.

The price has been 10 Baht on route now for how many years ?

All these years tourists (and others) have been tipping the drivers so his statement is proven false.

On top af that he finds it necessary to shout (using capitals) his order to us members.

I not only find that of very bad taste but enticing to do exactly the opposite (but that's just me).

Anyway I believe that only the individuals that have the licences to operate the taxi's and from which the drivers have to rent the cars are making a lot of money, high season, low season, day shift or night shift they get paid.

Yermanee

p.s. the above is solely regarding the baht busses in Pattaya.

It is relevant if the reason for tipping is because of the belief that baht bus operators are very poor and their income should be stimulated.

[yermanee]

Whether the taxi drivers make a good living or not is not relevant to this topic. OP claims that people tipping drives the price upwards.

The price has been 10 Baht on route now for how many years ?

All these years tourists (and others) have been tipping the drivers so his statement is proven false.

On top af that he finds it necessary to shout (using capitals) his order to us members.

I not only find that of very bad taste but enticing to do exactly the opposite (but that's just me).

Anyway I believe that only the individuals that have the licences to operate the taxi's and from which the drivers have to rent the cars are making a lot of money, high season, low season, day shift or night shift they get paid.

Yermanee

p.s. the above is solely regarding the baht busses in Pattaya.

It is relevant if the reason for tipping is because of the belief that baht bus operators are very poor and their income should be stimulated.

OK this will be my last post on this topic. Read my statement and NOT only part of it.

The topic is that tipping (for whatever reason) drives the price up which it is clearly not.

That's all I'm saying.

Everyone has his/her reason for tipping or not and if you don't want to tip then don't, but don't use excuses that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

And once again what someone else does with his/her money is none of your business

I like feeling good about myself.

Yermanee

[chiang mai]

This is my first ever foray into a baht bus thread, since I don't live in Pattaya and never visit there, I never felt inclined to join the debate so my apologies if all of this is old ground that's been covered many times before.

It is suggested by some that tipping doesn't drive up the price of baht bus fares, others disagree. My memory of baht buses in Pattaya, when I did visit, many years ago, was that the exact fare was unclear, locals it seemed to me paid 10 baht and farangs paid 20 baht, that extra ten baht paid by farangs was a tip of some sort and/or part of Thailands notorious dual pricing. The same lack of clarity exists today in the minds of many although long term farang residents of Pattaya insist the local price applies to them. Personally I can't imagine paying the local price on a baht bus, why should I, I'm not native and I'm not local, a minority of others others may disagree.

The point is that the extra ten baht paid by most farangs for so many years has become very close to a defacto standard for all farangs, it is the rule rather than the exception, regardless that The City may not have formally adopted it. So I would argue that tipping does drive up prices because the tip becomes a permanent and expected part of the landscape and subsequently the price of the fare.

Perhaps the more important part of the debate however is the extent to which individuals can feel good about themselves simply by tipping others and in doing so, ignoring the impact it has on local prices and usage. "The tip" has become a part of the landscape and a considerable source of income in tourist areas where prices are far higher than in other parts of the country, as prices in key tourist areas force locals expats and tourists into less expensive areas of the country, so the process of price escalation begins anew with farang tipping being a major contributor.

[Naam]

I wonder how many people advocating tipping baht bus drivers here give tips to bus drivers back in their home country!

Not really the same, in my home country the municipal bus drivers were very well paid with benefits. People would give something for Christmas in the "spirit of giving". Always gave gifts to the school bus driver. That said, I seldom tip a baht bus driver although if I am his only fare I will give something.

The problem is that very very few westerners understand how much money baht bus operators really make, the assumption is that they are poor simply because the fare is only 20 baht. But 15 passengers per day and he's just made average daily wage, another 15 passengers and he's paid for his truck payment, another 15 passengers and his daily fuel is paid for - he only needs 45 passengers per day, But scratch all that where he lands a couple of tourists who get charged 100 baht per trip, let's say that happens three times a day, my guess is that they make over 30k a month, more than many farangs here live on, according to a recent poll!

But 15 passengers per day and he's just made average daily wage, another 15 passengers and he's paid for his truck payment, another 15 passengers and his daily fuel is paid for - he only needs 45 passengers per day,

any additional ridiculous statements like these?

[chiang mai]

Not really the same, in my home country the municipal bus drivers were very well paid with benefits. People would give something for Christmas in the "spirit of giving". Always gave gifts to the school bus driver. That said, I seldom tip a baht bus driver although if I am his only fare I will give something.

The problem is that very very few westerners understand how much money baht bus operators really make, the assumption is that they are poor simply because the fare is only 20 baht. But 15 passengers per day and he's just made average daily wage, another 15 passengers and he's paid for his truck payment, another 15 passengers and his daily fuel is paid for - he only needs 45 passengers per day, But scratch all that where he lands a couple of tourists who get charged 100 baht per trip, let's say that happens three times a day, my guess is that they make over 30k a month, more than many farangs here live on, according to a recent poll!

But 15 passengers per day and he's just made average daily wage, another 15 passengers and he's paid for his truck payment, another 15 passengers and his daily fuel is paid for - he only needs 45 passengers per day,

any additional ridiculous statements like these?

More pearls of wisdom from the old sage!

I'm certain we can dream up loads, but first you have to tell us all why you think they are ridiculous, albeit they are based on a 20 baht fare.

[Pattaya46]

Whether the taxi drivers make a good living or not is not relevant to this topic.

OP claims that people tipping drives the price upwards. //

All these years tourists (and others) have been tipping the drivers so his statement is proven false. //

Certainly not false.

Bahtbus as a bus is still 10 baht only because price is imposed by Pattaya City Hall, not by the taxi drivers association.

Bahtbus as a taxi have show prices double in about 5 years. They were more than happy to bring you up the hill to Big Buddha for 100 Baht. Now you have to bargain to find one who will bring you there for 200 baht!

[Jingthing]

Years ago Thais paid 5 and others paid 10.

Now all pay 10.

Those paying 20 are not the de facto norm.

20 is required for longer trips but longer is not defined.

Spreading false info that most non Thais are paying 20 is not helpful at all because some people might believe that and think that is now needed. No. It is not.

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Edited June 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[chiang mai]

I will be most interested to learn how much other people are paying, part of the reason for that is because the Chiang Mai equivalent of the BB for farangs is now a defacto 20 baht. I's difficult to imagine that CM and Pattaya, both operating near identical "bus" systems (but with the latter being a prime tourist destination) allows Pattaya to be the cheaper of the two for public transport!

And quit the spreading false info rubbish, this is a debate, if a statement is incorrect, say so, don't go all girly and overreact.

[Jingthing]

There is zero controversy. The fare is 10 baht and most people are paying 10 baht. 20 baht is for very long rides only. Chiang Mai transport is irrelevant here and no way is it an identical service as people who know both cities are well aware.

Stating the truth and calling out blatantly false rumor mongering has nothing to do with gender. It is not girly any more than it is boyly.

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Edited June 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[Dancer Schmancer]

TIP THE BAHT BUS DRIVERS.

They give you an invaluable service for next to nothing.

Stop being so tight.

[chiang mai]

So "longer is not defined", hmmm! Methinks 20 baht is more likely to be closer to what most visitors will pay but who knows. As for CM and BB systems not being similar, perhaps you can elaborate for the benefit of the rest of us?

PS: JT, 'tis a turn of phrase, nothing more, don't get your knickers in a twist.

Edited June 19, 2014 by chiang mai

[BugJackBaron]

Why not tip the bus driver's in Bangkok too? 8 - 12 Baht a ride is peanuts!(depending on which line you choose)

Seriously, it's only 10 Baht if you go in a straight line most of the time. If they turn and go far or

you need to tranfer, it will be 20 Baht. ]

In Bankok 11 Baht for a city bus and you can go much further. I don't think it is unfair to pay 10 Baht.

[chiang mai]

I also tip the bin men. That service costs something like 100b every 3 months.

How dare I.

Since you do that in your home country it's only right that you continue the tradition here, you do tip the bin men in your home country, don't you?

[Jingthing]

So "longer is not defined", hmmm! Methinks 20 baht is more likely to be closer to what most visitors will pay but who knows. As for CM and BB systems not being similar, perhaps you can elaborate for the benefit of the rest of us?

PS: JT, 'tis a turn of phrase, nothing more, don't get your knickers in a twist.

Again, wrong. Who knows? Dude ... I know. Most are paying 10. Not worth my time discussing CM on this forum. Off topic as well.

The long ride thing has been discussed here many times. Don't see much value in a replay.

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Edited June 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[chiang mai]

So "longer is not defined", hmmm! Methinks 20 baht is more likely to be closer to what most visitors will pay but who knows. As for CM and BB systems not being similar, perhaps you can elaborate for the benefit of the rest of us?

PS: JT, 'tis a turn of phrase, nothing more, don't get your knickers in a twist.

Again wrong. Who knows? Dude ... I know. Most are paying 10. Not worth my time discussing CM on this forum. Off topic as well.

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Oh come now, the scope of the topic is tipping baht bus drivers, it's only fair and reasonable to compare like systems against other provinces in the same country. As for your assertion that 10 baht is the what most pay, I can agree that is your view which is not fact, Dude!

[Dancer Schmancer]

I also tip the bin men. That service costs something like 100b every 3 months.

How dare I.

Since you do that in your home country it's only right that you continue the tradition here, you do tip the bin men in your home country, don't you?

Yes I do, usually in the form of gifts. Cash at Christmas time.

[chiang mai]

I also tip the bin men. That service costs something like 100b every 3 months.

How dare I.

Since you do that in your home country it's only right that you continue the tradition here, you do tip the bin men in your home country, don't you?

Yes I do, usually in the form of gifts. Cash at Christmas time.

That's great, I can recall my dear mum doing similar back in the 1960's, it was accepted tradition in the UK amongst certain classes, which sadly (or not, unsure) mostly died out, binmen, milkman, coal man etc. Hence the term Boxing Day, the day to give boxed gifts to servants, odd that the concept should be carried through to today in Pattaya and reiterated many times on a daily basis.

[Dancer Schmancer]

Not the same tradition. The same sentiment.

Giving a small amount to people doing a reasonably unpleasant and menial job to give an invaluable and cheap service to us.

What sort of angry, unpleasant people would attack someone for doing so, I can only imagine.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Dancer Schmancer

[chiang mai]

That's funny, I almost want to ask where your boundaries of, "an unpleasant job" are but I'll refrain!.

I am also tempted to ask where is your threshold that defines the difference between debate and discussion on a particular subject, and, an attack, but again I will refrain.

My view is that in socio/economic terms, tipping by westerners in "third world" countries stresses the local economy and puts the local population at a disadvantage, everyone suffers as a result of the ensuing price increases - if people want to give their money away, give it to organized charities who understand a better wealth distribution process.

[ThaiBob]

........

My view is that in socio/economic terms, tipping by westerners in "third world" countries stresses the local economy and puts the local population at a disadvantage, everyone suffers as a result of the ensuing price increases....

I have no idea what you are talking about, for the 15-20 years I have been here the bb rate has been 10 baht, still is, no increase for a foreigner. I give to charity too and if someone wants to be generous, so be it.... it's not for me to judge. Their generosity, tipping habits, lack of local knowledge, whatever, has no impact.

[Tywais]

Off topic argumentative posts removed.

[chiang mai]

........

My view is that in socio/economic terms, tipping by westerners in "third world" countries stresses the local economy and puts the local population at a disadvantage, everyone suffers as a result of the ensuing price increases....

I have no idea what you are talking about, for the 15-20 years I have been here the bb rate has been 10 baht, still is, no increase for a foreigner. I give to charity too and if someone wants to be generous, so be it.... it's not for me to judge. Their generosity, tipping habits, lack of local knowledge, whatever, has no impact.

OK well it's been 5 baht during the past fifteen years but no matter.

And in case you missed it, I was trying to extend the concept of tipping to cover the broader argument of the effect on social and economic aspects of life in Thailand. I'm not trying to be clever or sexy in my direction or my arguments but too few people look at the impact of throwing away a few baht for this or that in an environment where they view locals as being impoverished, this simply because they earn western salaries or they feel sorry for what think they see around them, it's very misguided.

[Pattaya46]

Methinks 20 baht is more likely to be closer to what most visitors will pay but who knows.

As for your assertion that 10 baht is the what most pay, I can agree that is your view which is not fact, Dude!

Sorry ChiangMai but I am with JingThing and others here: "The fare is 10 baht and most people are paying 10 baht".

Nearly everybody I see pay 10 baht, at the exception of some schoolchildren who still pay 5 baht

The only few people I saw pay 20 baht were some Russian coming from Jomtien, but rare, as most know the price: 10 baht.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Pattaya46

[chiang mai]

Methinks 20 baht is more likely to be closer to what most visitors will pay but who knows.

As for your assertion that 10 baht is the what most pay, I can agree that is your view which is not fact, Dude!

Sory ChiangMai but I am with JingThing and others here: "The fare is 10 baht and most people are paying 10 baht".

Nearly everybody I see pay 10 baht, at the exception of some schoolchildren who still pay 5 baht

The only few people I saw pay 20 baht were some Russian coming from Jomtien, but rare, as most know the price: 10 baht.

No need to be sorry, if that's your view then great, I don't live there, you do.

[ThaiBob]

Methinks 20 baht is more likely to be closer to what most visitors will pay but who knows.

As for your assertion that 10 baht is the what most pay, I can agree that is your view which is not fact, Dude!

Sory ChiangMai but I am with JingThing and others here: "The fare is 10 baht and most people are paying 10 baht".

Nearly everybody I see pay 10 baht, at the exception of some schoolchildren who still pay 5 baht

The only few people I saw pay 20 baht were some Russian coming from Jomtien, but rare, as most know the price: 10 baht.

No need to be sorry, if that's your view then great, I don't live there, you do.

It's not a view, it is a fact.

[chiang mai]

As for your assertion that 10 baht is the what most pay, I can agree that is your view which is not fact, Dude!

Sory ChiangMai but I am with JingThing and others here: "The fare is 10 baht and most people are paying 10 baht".

Nearly everybody I see pay 10 baht, at the exception of some schoolchildren who still pay 5 baht

The only few people I saw pay 20 baht were some Russian coming from Jomtien, but rare, as most know the price: 10 baht.

No need to be sorry, if that's your view then great, I don't live there, you do.

It's not a view, it is a fact.

What is certainly a fact is that you do not speak for the entire population of Pattaya, ergo, yours is a view.