Phuket Brit in amazing escape from spectacular crash

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Iceman

 

As I have posted in the past I respect your honest outlook and the candour of your posts.

 

But you have got it wrong this time around.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2014 by Bulldozer Dawn

[NamKangMan]

@ ArranP

 

It's a great story, but that's all I see it as, "a story."  :)

 

Of course, if the blood test proves positive and you make a complaint to police, and the last bar you attended is raided and investigated, that would give you some credibility. :)

 

Of course, the drug would have to take effect on you in the VERY short window period from getting into your car, and the accident, since you say, "I can recall I was fine, in charge of myself leaving the last place I frequented that night, which is the place I believe the spiking takes place." 

 

These are oral drugs, not intravenous drugs.  They take time to enter the blood stream.  To say you went from "fine" to falling asleep, 15 to 20 minutes later, is long bow to draw.

 

Of course, the effects of these drugs are increased with the consumption of alcohol, so we go back to your alcohol intake, again.

[SDM0712]

Driving whilst drunk can explain the crashing of a car, what it does not explain is falling asleep at the wheel whilst driving a car, nor does the quantity of alcohol I had consumed..........

The nurse mentioned my blood pressure, it was abnormally low on arrival to the hospital , something like 40 over 20.

 

Glad you're on the mend.

I think if anything driving when drunk makes many less likely to fall asleep since they are paranoid about being caught by the rozzers and since so many of the bar owners drive smashed over the mountain every night to Kathu you would think this road, normally dangerous anyway, would be littered with wrecks in the morning. If not Patong Hill itself then the roads at the back of Family or the other racetrack, the secret ones or so we think.

Normally falling asleep is the result of extreme tiredness and at home extreme tiredness plus a hot car.

There could be one other explanation. Have you hit the bottom of the car recently, or reversed and smashed the back of the pipe? If so there could have been a crack in the exhaust manifold or one of the boxes. Carbon monoxide is odorless and will certainly make you drowsy and could easily put you to sleep if you were a bit tired anyway. That's why it's such a popular choice for people wanting to top themselves. A nice warm sleep, that they never wake up from.

Are you sure about that blood pressure reading 40/20 is through the floor and normally the first reading would be higher than the second for example a normal reading for someone in their 40's would be around 130/70 with a pulse of around 70. You must have heard it wrong, but it will be on your entry notes. I suffer from occasional low blood pressure myself and if it drops too much you will pass out for sure. Normally a drug, perhaps something like marijuana can cause hypotension (low blood pressure) and you will pass out. Happened to me in Amsterdam, not a pleasant experience. Something like diabetes can also cause your blood pressure levels to fall rapidly and unexpectedly if your sugar levels are too low.

SDM Edited July 2, 2014 by SDM0712

[ArranP]

@ ArranP

 

It's a great story, but that's all I see it as, "a story." 

 

Of course, if the blood test proves positive and you make a complaint to police, and the last bar you attended is raided and investigated, that would give you some credibility.

 

Of course, the drug would have to take effect on you in the VERY short window period from getting into your car, and the accident, since you say, "I can recall I was fine, in charge of myself leaving the last place I frequented that night, which is the place I believe the spiking takes place." 

 

These are oral drugs, not intravenous drugs.  They take time to enter the blood stream.  To say you went from "fine" to falling asleep, 15 to 20 minutes later, is long bow to draw.

 

Of course, the effects of these drugs are increased with the consumption of alcohol, so we go back to your alcohol intake, again.

 

30 to 40 minutes.

 

I'ts not a priority for me to ascertain the results of the drug test as it will only back what I already know to be.  I will not be taking action against the establishment where I know this to be happening, I will simply go on my own way, live and let live.  Let this be someone elses fight, I know what I need to do, stop going to that establishment.

 

Whats more pertinent to me is half a metre more to the left and I would not be here today, this is what weighs on my mind, its frightened me, I had no control over where that car hit the pole, its pure chance I am alive and my children still have a father, this is my priority and what is important to me.

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2014 by ArranP

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>
He may not have been wearing his seat belt, but who does in Thailand.
<snip>

Me. Every trip. Every day.

[NamKangMan]

I can't believe how poisonous Thai Visa has become.

 

Why on earth do you all need to accuse this guy of being drunk, or speeding, or heaven forbid wearing flip flops while driving.

 

You are like a pathetic murder of crows pecking at an injured sparrow.  Truly pathetic.

 

This guy lives in Ban Charoensuk off Soi Wat Tah Ruea.

 

He is a quiet family guy (recently divorced with a couple of kids) and had moved to Phuket to start over.  He has a good deal of coin and has a property business back in the UK.

 

He takes good care of his previous Thai wife and loog krueng kids.

 

In fact, notwithstanding the divorce I understand that he has just paid for a new home to be built for them.

 

Why do all you losers have to paint the worst possible picture of this guy.

 

If there were more expats here like him Thailand would be a much better place.

 

As for the details of the accident, what I do know is that that stretch of road just south of Soi Wat Tah Ruea is very dangerous and there are also random power poles that are set in the actual tarmac of the road a good metre out from the curb. 

 

As with a lot of serious accidents, it would appear that this one happened just a few minutes away from his house.  Perhaps he fell into a microsleep and awoke with one of those ridiculous power poles in his way.   As a father and business man, perhaps he was fatigued.

 

Arran, if you read this I hope you make a swift recovery and that your family life is not disrupted.

 

To the pathetic poisonous Thai Visa crows...you sicken me.

 

 

"As for the details of the accident" - yes, that is what the thread is about.  The rest of your post reads like a character reference to a Judge.

 

I doubt your glowing report of Arran would be the same, if he crashed into you, or killed a relative or friend of yours, or perhaps even a stranger, and he was in gaol now for drink driving causing death.

 

As for "Thaivisa" - it's the internet, where all are allowed to comment, within forum rules.  If you can't handle it, don't read it.

 

Also, if you haven't noticed, someone claiming to be Arran has been posting.  He has no problem debating the facts of the night in question - why do you?

[ArranP]

Guys and Girls,

 

Please don't argue over me, I know pretty much know what happened to me and what I need to change.

 

Wishing you a good night.

Arran.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

No Iceman.

 

This thread is about a fellow expat (and father) who had a very lucky escape.

 

If you want to go down the I would never drive while tired, or after a few drinks rabbit hole...good for you.

 

I won't be following you down as I am not a suitable candidate to cast the first stone.

 

Perhaps you are, if so, power to you for never driving when tired or after a few drinks.

 

 

[NamKangMan]

Guys and Girls,

 

Please don't argue over me, I know pretty much know what happened to me and what I need to change.

 

Wishing you a good night.

Arran.

 

It's all just internet banter.  You are lucky to be alive. All the best. 

 

I guarantee if you wiped out a family in another car, you would have been persecuted on this thread, and prosecuted by the police. 

 

You are lucky in so many ways.  Take it as a warning to change some things in your life, other than your car.  :)

[Chainsaw]

I can't believe how poisonous Thai Visa has become.

 

Why on earth do you all need to accuse this guy of being drunk, or speeding, or heaven forbid wearing flip flops while driving.

 

You are like a pathetic murder of crows pecking at an injured sparrow.  Truly pathetic.

 

This guy lives in Ban Charoensuk off Soi Wat Tah Ruea.

 

He is a quiet family guy (recently divorced with a couple of kids) and had moved to Phuket to start over.  He has a good deal of coin and has a property business back in the UK.

 

He takes good care of his previous Thai wife and loog krueng kids.

 

In fact, notwithstanding the divorce I understand that he has just paid for a new home to be built for them.

 

Why do all you losers have to paint the worst possible picture of this guy.

 

If there were more expats here like him Thailand would be a much better place.

 

As for the details of the accident, what I do know is that that stretch of road just south of Soi Wat Tah Ruea is very dangerous and there are also random power poles that are set in the actual tarmac of the road a good metre out from the curb. 

 

As with a lot of serious accidents, it would appear that this one happened just a few minutes away from his house.  Perhaps he fell into a microsleep and awoke with one of those ridiculous power poles in his way.   As a father and business man, perhaps he was fatigued.

 

Arran, if you read this I hope you make a swift recovery and that your family life is not disrupted.

 

To the pathetic poisonous Thai Visa crows...you sicken me.

 

I agree 100%. There are some sad souls on TV who love to kick a man when he's down. 

Arran I wish you a speedy recovery, ignore the saddos.

 

[NamKangMan]

No Iceman.

 

This thread is about a fellow expat (and father) who had a very lucky escape.

 

If you want to go down the I would never drive while tired, or after a few drinks rabbit hole...good for you.

 

I won't be following you down as I am not a suitable candidate to cast the first stone.

 

Perhaps you are, if so, power to you for never driving when tired or after a few drinks.

 

 

 

"I am not a suitable candidate to cast the first stone" - sounds like your character reference would not be as good as Arran's.

 

Will we be reading about you on TV one day?

[Bulldozer Dawn]

 

No Iceman.

 

This thread is about a fellow expat (and father) who had a very lucky escape.

 

If you want to go down the I would never drive while tired, or after a few drinks rabbit hole...good for you.

 

I won't be following you down as I am not a suitable candidate to cast the first stone.

 

Perhaps you are, if so, power to you for never driving when tired or after a few drinks.

 

 

 

"I am not a suitable candidate to cast the first stone" - sounds like your character reference would not be as good as Arran's.

 

Will we be reading about you on TV one day?

 

 

You already have.  You just don't know it.

[NamKangMan]

 

 

No Iceman.

 

This thread is about a fellow expat (and father) who had a very lucky escape.

 

If you want to go down the I would never drive while tired, or after a few drinks rabbit hole...good for you.

 

I won't be following you down as I am not a suitable candidate to cast the first stone.

 

Perhaps you are, if so, power to you for never driving when tired or after a few drinks.

 

 

 

"I am not a suitable candidate to cast the first stone" - sounds like your character reference would not be as good as Arran's.

 

Will we be reading about you on TV one day?

 

 

You already have.  You just don't know it.

 

 

 

Were you labelled "another quality expat/tourist?"
 

[ChoakMyDee]

 

He's lost one of his flip flops.

 

I found it :-)

 

 

I'm glad you're OK. I had a near-death experience a couple years ago and it shook me to the core. Life is precious, take care of yourself.

[ArranP]

 

Driving whilst drunk can explain the crashing of a car, what it does not explain is falling asleep at the wheel whilst driving a car, nor does the quantity of alcohol I had consumed..........

The nurse mentioned my blood pressure, it was abnormally low on arrival to the hospital , something like 40 over 20.

 

Glad you're on the mend.

I think if anything driving when drunk makes many less likely to fall asleep since they are paranoid about being caught by the rozzers and since so many of the bar owners drive smashed over the mountain every night to Kathu you would think this road, normally dangerous anyway, would be littered with wrecks in the morning. If not Patong Hill itself then the roads at the back of Family or the other racetrack, the secret ones or so we think.

Normally falling asleep is the result of extreme tiredness and at home extreme tiredness plus a hot car.

There could be one other explanation. Have you hit the bottom of the car recently, or reversed and smashed the back of the pipe? If so there could have been a crack in the exhaust manifold or one of the boxes. Carbon monoxide is odorless and will certainly make you drowsy and could easily put you to sleep if you were a bit tired anyway. That's why it's such a popular choice for people wanting to top themselves. A nice warm sleep, that they never wake up from.

Are you sure about that blood pressure reading 40/20 is through the floor and normally the first reading would be higher than the second for example a normal reading for someone in their 40's would be around 130/70 with a pulse of around 70. You must have heard it wrong, but it will be on your entry notes. I suffer from occasional low blood pressure myself and if it drops too much you will pass out for sure. Normally a drug, perhaps something like marijuana can cause hypotension (low blood pressure) and you will pass out. Happened to me in Amsterdam, not a pleasant experience. Something like diabetes can also cause your blood pressure levels to fall rapidly and unexpectedly if your sugar levels are too low.

SDM

 

 

It was 40 / 20 or 50 / 30, the nurse noted it and brought it to my attention, she said shock and left it at that, my blood pressure is normally 110 / 80 and is pretty stable.

 

I think the abnormally low blood pressure maybe a sign of the drug from the drink spiking and hence the reason my falling alseep at the wheel.

[SDM0712]

 
It was 40 / 20 or 50 / 30, the nurse noted it and brought it to my attention, she said shock and left it at that, my blood pressure is normally 110 / 80 and is pretty stable.
 
I think the abnormally low blood pressure maybe a sign of the drug from the drink spiking and hence the reason my falling alseep at the wheel.

That would do it.

Where do you think you were spiked ? I'm also down there a lot and it would useful to know where.

SDM

[ArranP]

 

 
It was 40 / 20 or 50 / 30, the nurse noted it and brought it to my attention, she said shock and left it at that, my blood pressure is normally 110 / 80 and is pretty stable.
 
I think the abnormally low blood pressure maybe a sign of the drug from the drink spiking and hence the reason my falling alseep at the wheel.

That would do it.

Where do you think you were spiked ? I'm also down there a lot and it would useful to know where.

SDM

 

 

I don't want to name the establishment for fear for retaliation, however I will update you personally.

[ArranP]

 

Guys and Girls,

 

Please don't argue over me, I know pretty much know what happened to me and what I need to change.

 

Wishing you a good night.

Arran.

 

It's all just internet banter.  You are lucky to be alive. All the best. 

 

I guarantee if you wiped out a family in another car, you would have been persecuted on this thread, and prosecuted by the police. 

 

You are lucky in so many ways.  Take it as a warning to change some things in your life, other than your car. 

 

 

Thank you and unfortunately you are most likely right.

 

In previous generations alcohol was the problem, it is that experience that learning which has been carried forward through the generations to us today as the number one substance to blame where auto vehicle incidents are concerned.  

 

However now, we need to take care not to stop learning, in today's society it is an oversight to assume alcohol alone as being the only cause for loss of self control.  

 

Current society has moved on, substances other than alcohol are now available which were not before.  These substances are being put into peoples drinks, the effects from which we ourselves have no control over and bring about the same drastic consequences as alcohol where auto vehicles are concerned.

 

More learnings, more awareness, "drink spiking" has arrived is as dangerous as alcohol, raise awareness.

Edited July 3, 2014 by ArranP

[NamKangMan]

 

 

Guys and Girls,

 

Please don't argue over me, I know pretty much know what happened to me and what I need to change.

 

Wishing you a good night.

Arran.

 

It's all just internet banter.  You are lucky to be alive. All the best. 

 

I guarantee if you wiped out a family in another car, you would have been persecuted on this thread, and prosecuted by the police. 

 

You are lucky in so many ways.  Take it as a warning to change some things in your life, other than your car. 

 

 

Thank you and unfortunately you are most likely right.

 

In previous generations alcohol was the problem, it is that experience that learning which has been carried forward through the generations to us today as the number one substance to blame where auto vehicle incidents are concerned.  

 

However now, we need to take care not to stop learning, in today's society it is an oversight to assume alcohol alone as being the only cause for loss of self control.  

 

Current society has moved on, substances other than alcohol are now available which were not before.  These substances are being put into peoples drinks, the effects from which we ourselves have no control over and bring about the same drastic consequences as alcohol where auto vehicles are concerned.

 

More learnings, more awareness, "drink spiking" has arrived is as dangerous as alcohol, raise awareness.

 

 

Here's a tip for you, the first step to fixing the problem, is recognising you have a problem.  Stop living in denial. :)   

[ArranP]

 

 

 

Guys and Girls,

 

Please don't argue over me, I know pretty much know what happened to me and what I need to change.

 

Wishing you a good night.

Arran.

 

It's all just internet banter.  You are lucky to be alive. All the best. 

 

I guarantee if you wiped out a family in another car, you would have been persecuted on this thread, and prosecuted by the police. 

 

You are lucky in so many ways.  Take it as a warning to change some things in your life, other than your car. 

 

 

Thank you and unfortunately you are most likely right.

 

In previous generations alcohol was the problem, it is that experience that learning which has been carried forward through the generations to us today as the number one substance to blame where auto vehicle incidents are concerned.  

 

However now, we need to take care not to stop learning, in today's society it is an oversight to assume alcohol alone as being the only cause for loss of self control.  

 

Current society has moved on, substances other than alcohol are now available which were not before.  These substances are being put into peoples drinks, the effects from which we ourselves have no control over and bring about the same drastic consequences as alcohol where auto vehicles are concerned.

 

More learnings, more awareness, "drink spiking" has arrived is as dangerous as alcohol, raise awareness.

 

 

Here's a tip for you, the first step to fixing the problem, is recognising you have a problem.  Stop living in denial.   

 

 

Equally, from my perspective your statement describes you. You choose to deny anything other than alcohol was the cause.

 

Do you think drink spiking does not or rarely happens ?  I put it to you, drink spiking is more prevalent than you seem give it credit,  I think your your believes are based on facts of a previous era, you consider that "now" is not any different from the days 20 or 30 years ago.

 

[Chainsaw]

 

 

 

Guys and Girls,

 

Please don't argue over me, I know pretty much know what happened to me and what I need to change.

 

Wishing you a good night.

Arran.

 

It's all just internet banter.  You are lucky to be alive. All the best. 

 

I guarantee if you wiped out a family in another car, you would have been persecuted on this thread, and prosecuted by the police. 

 

You are lucky in so many ways.  Take it as a warning to change some things in your life, other than your car. 

 

 

Thank you and unfortunately you are most likely right.

 

In previous generations alcohol was the problem, it is that experience that learning which has been carried forward through the generations to us today as the number one substance to blame where auto vehicle incidents are concerned.  

 

However now, we need to take care not to stop learning, in today's society it is an oversight to assume alcohol alone as being the only cause for loss of self control.  

 

Current society has moved on, substances other than alcohol are now available which were not before.  These substances are being put into peoples drinks, the effects from which we ourselves have no control over and bring about the same drastic consequences as alcohol where auto vehicles are concerned.

 

More learnings, more awareness, "drink spiking" has arrived is as dangerous as alcohol, raise awareness.

 

 

Here's a tip for you, the first step to fixing the problem, is recognising you have a problem.  Stop living in denial.   

 

 

Here's a tip for you nkm.

Stop being so pedantic and patronising just to score points. First step in fixing the problem is to recognise that YOU have a problem.

Arran has been totally upfront and honest with everyone on the forum even though he's answerable to none of us, but you're like a dog with a bone. Get over yourself.

 

[NamKangMan]

@ Chainsaw

 

"Arran has been totally upfront and honest with everyone on the forum" - no, he is claiming to be a victim of crime, rather than the perpertrator of one.  Big difference.

 

His story reminds me of Thai's blaming "brake failure." 

[NamKangMan]

@ ArranP

 

Of course drink spiking happens, I just don't believe it happened to you on the night, for some reasons I have already posted.  Simple as that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame you for coming up with the story.  It makes you the victim, and not the offender.  

 

Like I said, if you killed someone else, your "drink spiking" claim would be worth zero to police, and you would have been persecuted on this forum, and in gaol now.

 

I'm not saying you are an alcoholic.  We all know what you problem is - you couldn't get a metered taxi home, because there aren't any on Phuket, so had to drive. 

 

Many drive whilst intoxicated on Phuket.  It's no secret. Or, do you think all the accidents in the earlier hours of the morning on Phuket are the result of "drink spiking."

[ArranP]

I'm not claiming to bit have a a drink that evening, I am saying the amount consumed does not warrant they loss of control, something else was added.

Fact Blood pressure, I think anyone with a blood pressure of 40 over 20 would be unconscious. What is your opinion here ? It was not caused by internal bleeding as due to the lie blood pressure they looked meticulously for it but found none.

[ArranP]

Also thus isn't the first occasion drink spiking has happened to me, 2007 was the first time my Thai girl friend at the time insulted the lady bar tender, I recall being delerious that night, waking up alone in my bungalow with blood everywhere over the walls from a gash in my fire head. All because of an argument between to Thai girls.

Another time, it was like a TV set simply switched off, then switched back in again and I was at home very strange.

It's happened to me a lot of times in Patong, because of argument or need of money. This is he first time there has been as serious consequences from it as this. And this is where I have had enough, no longer can I go out in Patong alone, not because of alcohol but because of how prevalent drink spiking is in Patong

[Chainsaw]

@ Chainsaw

 

"Arran has been totally upfront and honest with everyone on the forum" - no, he is claiming to be a victim of crime, rather than the perpertrator of one.  Big difference.

 

His story reminds me of Thai's blaming "brake failure." 

 

...and you have no information to prove your alternative theory but you keep banging on about it as if your 'humble' opinion has some merit and is the only one worth listening to.

 You've made your opinion very clear, and that's all it is, your opinion.

Now do you see what I mean about being pedantic and patronising?

 

His story reminds me of Thai's blaming "brake failure."  - What a low comment. How far will you go to get your digs in at this man?

 

I've made my point.

 

[NamKangMan]

I'm not claiming to bit have a a drink that evening, I am saying the amount consumed does not warrant they loss of control, something else was added.

Fact Blood pressure, I think anyone with a blood pressure of 40 over 20 would be unconscious. What is your opinion here ? It was not caused by internal bleeding as due to the lie blood pressure they looked meticulously for it but found none.

 

 

Which one came first, the alcohol, or you falling asleep?  I would say the alcohol caused you to fall asleep.

 

As for your blood pressure, probably a faulty sphygmomanometer and/or nurse. :)

[NamKangMan]

Also thus isn't the first occasion drink spiking has happened to me, 2007 was the first time my Thai girl friend at the time insulted the lady bar tender, I recall being delerious that night, waking up alone in my bungalow with blood everywhere over the walls from a gash in my fire head. All because of an argument between to Thai girls.

Another time, it was like a TV set simply switched off, then switched back in again and I was at home very strange.

It's happened to me a lot of times in Patong, because of argument or need of money. This is he first time there has been as serious consequences from it as this. And this is where I have had enough, no longer can I go out in Patong alone, not because of alcohol but because of how prevalent drink spiking is in Patong

 

 

"no longer can I go out in Patong alone, not because of alcohol but because of how prevalent drink spiking is in Patong" - great idea, and make sure they do not drink. 

 

They can drive you, and your new car home, safely.  I've heard about something like this before, I think it's called having a "designated driver." :)

 

Hopefully, a drunk will not crash into you and your friend, on the way home, and claim their drink was spiked.  :)   

[NamKangMan]

 

@ Chainsaw

 

"Arran has been totally upfront and honest with everyone on the forum" - no, he is claiming to be a victim of crime, rather than the perpertrator of one.  Big difference.

 

His story reminds me of Thai's blaming "brake failure." 

 

...and you have no information to prove your alternative theory but you keep banging on about it as if your 'humble' opinion has some merit and is the only one worth listening to.

 You've made your opinion very clear, and that's all it is, your opinion.

Now do you see what I mean about being pedantic and patronising?

 

His story reminds me of Thai's blaming "brake failure."  - What a low comment. How far will you go to get your digs in at this man?

 

I've made my point.

 

 

 

What information do YOU have to suggest alcohol was not a factor?

 

My opinion is worth the same as yours on TV - zero.  :) 

 

"pedantic and patronising" - no one forces you to read this thread.  If you can't handle it - don't read it.

 

So, when a Thai blames "brake failure" the forum lights up with sarcastic comments about the drivers BS story, but when a foreigner blames "drink spiking" we have to believe it.

 

Well, I don't believe it, and have told Arran I don't believe him, and have given him my reasons.  He seems fine to debate it with me.  I don't know what your problem is with it. 

 

You see, if he had died, the mods would say, "have respect for the family who may be reading this" and remove any post that suggests the deceased foreigner was drunk at the time of the accident.

 

Since the driver is still alive, I/we are able to say, "the accident happened because you were drunk" and that's all I am saying. :) 

 

Anyway, this thread will make Arran a celebrity.  Next time he is in the bar/s - people are going to ask him, "So, what really did happen that night?"    

[Chainsaw]

 

 

@ Chainsaw

 

"Arran has been totally upfront and honest with everyone on the forum" - no, he is claiming to be a victim of crime, rather than the perpertrator of one.  Big difference.

 

His story reminds me of Thai's blaming "brake failure." 

 

...and you have no information to prove your alternative theory but you keep banging on about it as if your 'humble' opinion has some merit and is the only one worth listening to.

 You've made your opinion very clear, and that's all it is, your opinion.

Now do you see what I mean about being pedantic and patronising?

 

His story reminds me of Thai's blaming "brake failure."  - What a low comment. How far will you go to get your digs in at this man?

 

I've made my point.

 

 

 

What information do YOU have to suggest alcohol was not a factor?

 

My opinion is worth the same as yours on TV - zero. 

 

"pedantic and patronising" - no one forces you to read this thread.  If you can't handle it - don't read it.

 

So, when a Thai blames "brake failure" the forum lights up with sarcastic comments about the drivers BS story, but when a foreigner blames "drink spiking" we have to believe it.

 

Well, I don't believe it, and have told Arran I don't believe him, and have given him my reasons.  He seems fine to debate it with me.  I don't know what your problem is with it. 

 

You see, if he had died, the mods would say, "have respect for the family who may be reading this" and remove any post that suggests the deceased foreigner was drunk at the time of the accident.

 

Since the driver is still alive, I/we are able to say, "the accident happened because you were drunk" and that's all I am saying.

 

Anyway, this thread will make Arran a celebrity.  Next time he is in the bar/s - people are going to ask him, "So, what really did happen that night?"    

 

 

I made my point. Try reading it again slowly.

I gave no opinion about whether Arran was drunk or not because I don't know! Neither do you.

My point was about you being patronising and pedantic. I'm not going to keep explaining it to you.