Mexican football fans homophobic chant allowed at World Cup

[Jingthing]

All should be allowed it is football not PC ball.

But all is not allowed. That's the point. Double standard. Racism not OK. Homophobia OK.

[David48]

I'll leave this thread because I don't wish to be accused of ... of ...

--------------------------------------------------

So, to the quotes above ...

Again, lets look at what is the source ...

Using a Google translater to convert what the Mexician Government said ...

I couldn't even be bother to try and refute that sillyness.

--------------------------------------------------

As for the other quote.

Let's look at the source ...

'http://soccer.fusion.net' has no referance of note. The parent company, Fusion.net ... well, guess what ... it's also a Media Company, who would have thought ...

From Wiki ... Fusion is an American digital cable and satellite television network that is owned by as a joint venture between the Disney-ABC Television Group subsidiary of The Walt Disney Company ...

Launched on October 28, 2013, the network's content features news, lifestyle, pop culture, satire and entertainment ...

Gentlemen, I'll leave you all to it.

I tire of the lack of use of logic.

I tire of the use of oversize fonts as if the quote is supposed to add extra weight to the arguement.

I tire of the use of Logos which mean SFA.

Bash it out, enjoy ... see you all on the flip side.

Cheers

David48

[Jingthing]

Another interesting link.

This from a famous Mexican-American media columnist from LA mostly known for his ASK A MEXICAN meme and also a major book about Mexican food in the USA.

He agrees with government of Mexico. Puto IS most definitively a gay slur! Also he agrees that it IS homophobic to chant PUTO in the context it is used by Mexican football supporters. No ambiguity at all.

He suggests not worrying about FIFA but instead giving three beers to the chanting fans. As in "What's the difference between a straight Mexican man and a straight Mexican man? THREE beers! "

Also quotes from the video:

"Sorry guys puto IS a gay slur"

"Figuratively it means F-gg-t"

About the "coward" rationalization:

"In Mexican MACHO culture, a coward is synonymous with being a gay man"

My latest video takes on the controversy involving Mexican soccer fans chanting "PUTO!" during matches. I get it: it's so ingrained at this point that most Mexican fans don't think it's homophobic...but it is, no matter how you spin it (someone tell that to George Lopez). Enjoy, and pass it on![/size][/size][/font][/color]

Edited June 28, 2014 by CharlieH

[VocalNeal]

In Cricket it is called sledging, in Baseball trash talk, in Hockey chirping. Verbal intimidation has long been an integral part of boxing especial at the weigh in.

​It's just the same thing but on a stadium level. ..and I believe they only do it when the opposing goal keeper takes a goal kick.

​I see nothing wrong with a bit of community/fan spirit.

[Jingthing]

In Cricket it is called sledging, in Baseball trash talk, in Hockey chirping. Verbal intimidation has long been an integral part of boxing especial at the weigh in.

​It's just the same thing but on a stadium level. ..and I believe they only do it when the opposing goal keeper takes a goal kick.

​I see nothing wrong with a bit of community/fan spirit.

Sure thing.

Do you think it would be OK or FIFA would allow it if the supporters chant of a national team in that context was the N word?

I thought not.

Again why is a homophobic chant allowed and racist chants not allowed.

Nobody can answer that in a reasonable way because there is no reasonable answer.

FIFA's angle was pretending the chant wasn't an anti-gay slur.

But that's a lie. It IS.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[sustento]

In situations like this I ask myself 3 questions:

1. Can I do anything about this?

2. Will it make any difference?

3. Do I really care?

In the case of professional footballers being insulted by fans the answer to 3 is a resounding NO no matter what the insults are.

I salve my conscience a little knowing that because Jing feels so strongly about it all he's already sent a strongly worded note of protest to both Sepp Blatter and Enrique Nieto,

[Jingthing]

It's not about the goalies taking it literally. Duh. It's about the public expression of homophobia being tolerated on a major world stage when similar expressions of racism are not.

[ToddWeston]

The good news is this will just fade away.........yesterday's news is tomorrow's fish and chips paper.

Next

[rgs2001uk]

Can someone please tell me the PC way to refer to someone as a male prostitute?

Are descriptors such as rent boy or bar boy allowed or would they offend?

[sustento]

Can someone please tell me the PC way to refer to someone as a male prostitute?

Are descriptors such as rent boy or bar boy allowed or would they offend?

They wouldn't offend me. I can't vouch for anyone else though

[Jingthing]

Can someone please tell me the PC way to refer to someone as a male prostitute?

Are descriptors such as rent boy or bar boy allowed or would they offend?

The sarcasm here is as thick as a good menudo.

[ToddWeston]

Can someone please tell me the PC way to refer to someone as a male prostitute?

Are descriptors such as rent boy or bar boy allowed or would they offend?

I'll have to defer that one to the knowlegable who've used said services.

Please stand by the PC brigade will be along shortly.

[Jingthing]

The good news is this will just fade away.........yesterday's news is tomorrow's fish and chips paper.

Next

Well, it's not over yet, dude.

Expect the loudest Puto shouting in the history of Puto shouting at this upcoming match. Somewhat ironically against the Netherlands. That's because the fans have been given a pass and will now make a big show about that. You can take that prediction to the bank.

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/index.html

Sunday 29 June

29 JUN 2014 - 13:00 Local time

ROUND OF 16

Estadio Castelao

Fortaleza

NETHERLANDS

MEXICO

23:00 Thailand Time

You can watch it live at this site:

http://www.12thplayer.com/

I'm assuming they won't be editing out the Puto chant audio, but I think some broadcasters might be, so not sure.

I'm rooting for Mexico! Seriously.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

Give it up, JT: Nobody thinks this is racist, err... anti-semitic, errr... homophobic (now I got it). It's a non-issue.

[Jingthing]

Give it up, JT: Nobody thinks this is racist, err... anti-semitic, errr... homophobic (now I got it). It's a non-issue.

Think what you like. I'm pretty sure you're not Mexican. The Mexican government and the Ask a Mexican guy, being authorities on Mexican Spanish and culture, think the Puto chant is a homophobic slur.

Again, nobody here has even tried to provide a reasonable answer to the key question here. Why does FIFA think it is OK to allow a homophobic chant but not racist ones?

Well except the joker who correctly understood that the Puto chant is anti-gay hate speech and thought it was OK because he thinks people can choose not to be gay, but can't choose their race. At least that was HONEST.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

A comment from FARE:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/23/mexico-cleared-fifa-homophobic-chants-world-cup-fans

The Guardian reported that a spokesperson from Fare stated, "If the decision is that the use of the word “puto” is not homophobic then this is disappointing and contradicts the expert advice of the Mexican government's own anti-discrimination body Conapred [El Consejo Nacional para Prevenir la Discriminación] and numerous other experts. Independent academics that we have taken the time to consult also confirm what many football fans in South America have known for a long time. A genuine zero tolerance approach to all forms of discrimination will mean that Fifa will need to take some difficult decisions. In the longer term it is the only way to set out clear leadership and deal with a real issue in football."

What is FARE you might ask?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Against_Racism_in_Europe

This anti-racism in football organization also includes action against homophobia in football. Too bad FIFA isn't there yet.

Note: No poster is ever obligated to respond to off topic / baiting personal questions that are personal in nature and not about the core of the topic. The core of the topic is the DOUBLE STANDARD of the FIFA decision.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

The topic of this thread is not about me. If the actual topic doesn't interest you and you are only here to post snarky baiting personal questions and hurl personal insults, I would like to politely ask you to ignore this thread. Cheers.

Back to the topic, I think I have SOLIDLY established with strong evidence that the Puto chant is actually anti-gay hate speech. FIFA acts like it's not but that is not credible. How can FIFA act like it knows Mexican Spanish and culture better than the Mexican government? It doesn't pass the smell test.

So again the core question of this thread remains about the double standard (homophobia OK, racism not OK), and not ONE reasonable answer to it.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Scott
Deleted post edited out

[Jingthing]

If nobody cares about this topic's TOPIC, then just stop posting on this thread and it will die a natural death.

I have a theory why FIFA has not acted on the chant.

The Cup in Brazil is already politically loaded.

Macho style homophobia is very ingrained in Latin America and Brazil is in Latin America.

The action would have had to include Mexico AND Brazil as some Brazilian fans have started with the Puto chant too (they learned it from the Mexicans).

Some people don't realize that Brazil was ALSO being looked into regarding the Puto chant.

To complicate matters further, puto in Brazilian Portuguese is different than Puto in Mexican Spanish!

It's just too much of a potential spark for controversy or even worse in Brazil to take any action against the home nation and they don't want to do anything to potentially contribute to that.

Putting the games in Brazil might have been a mistake for Brazil and FIFA.

My theory assumes that FIFA knows their conclusion that the chant isn't homophobic is a politically convenient lie.

In some ways, this theory is more complementary to FIFA than bald faced hypocrisy.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I want to clarify my last post. I can't acknowledge that the Puto chant is not homophobic as FIFA asserts because it clearly is. The question really is what was behind FIFA's decision to allow the homophobic chant ,,, with the assumption that Puto really is homophobic, which of course, IT IS (with strong evidence provided). If Mr. Weston meant to suggest that the issue was resolved that Puto was not homophobic and we should just accept FIFA's opinion as the truth, that is. I can't read people's minds when they don't explicitly spell out what they really intend to communicate.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

A fascinating commentary from a self described Jewish Aztec Princess. I like the author's conclusion ... that the Puto controversy which is clearly along with the World Cup the current talk of Mexico is a potential growth opportunity for Mexicans to become more self aware of some of the homophobic and misogynistic dark sides of their culture. I fully understand some people will just say that part of the non-Mexican world is indulging in cultural imperialism to criticize Mexicans for this. But keep in mind, there are Mexicans interested in addressing these issues as well, including their GOVERNMENT.

The Problem With Puto

Mexicans are up in arms at FIFA's investigation of discriminatory misconduct by Mexican fans in Brazil, who have been heard to chant the word "puto", which means "faggot" at opposing teams. Mexicans only recently are slowly becoming aware of their own deeply ingrained prejudices, mostly thanks to the internet. We are always amazed that slurs that to us are perfectly common, such as "puto" or "blackie", are found offensive by others. "We said it in jest", or "it's a term of endearment", some of us will protest.
Mexicans will say that the word "puto" in this context was not uttered in the spirit of discriminating against any gays. This is true. The Mexican fans that were so maturely and in such a sportsmanlike fashion screaming "puto" at the opposing team were not berating any particular player because of their homosexuality. In Mexico, the word "puto" has become an all-purpose insult, not necessarily aimed at gay men. Think of Alec Baldwin or Jonah Hill hurling "faggot" at the paparazzi. People choose to neglect the fact that the original intention of both "faggot" and "puto" is to denigrate homosexuals, and when used against straight men, to disparage them by accusing them of being gay. It's the worst thing you can say to a guy (in Mexico, without mentioning his mother). Even if it is directed at the straightest man on Earth, the connotation is sissy, weakling, crybaby, coward, less than a man.

...

I can understand to a certain point the frustration of Mexicans with the solemn humorlessness of the correctness brigade. We are great at humor, but still lag in the awareness department. At the second decade of the 21st century, however, it is about time that we look into our dark little Mexican souls and simply acknowledge our deepest prejudices. It is the first step towards diminishing them.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

Another interesting link.

This from a famous Mexican-American media columnist from LA mostly known for his ASK A MEXICAN meme and also a major book about Mexican food in the USA.

He agrees with government of Mexico. Puto IS most definitively a gay slur! Also he agrees that it IS homophobic to chant PUTO in the context it is used by Mexican football supporters. No ambiguity at all.

He suggests not worrying about FIFA but instead giving three beers to the chanting fans. As in "What's the difference between a straight Mexican man and a straight Mexican man? THREE beers! "

Also quotes from the video:

"Sorry guys puto IS a gay slur"

"Figuratively it means F-gg-t"

About the "coward" rationalization:

"In Mexican MACHO culture, a coward is synonymous with being a gay man."

[embedded video snipped]

https://de-de.facebook.com/askamexicancolumn

Ask a Mexican hat einen Link geteilt.

20. Juni

My latest video takes on the controversy involving Mexican soccer fans chanting "PUTO!" during matches. I get it: it's so ingrained at this point that most Mexican fans don't think it's homophobic...but it is, no matter how you spin it (someone tell that to George Lopez). Enjoy, and pass it on!

I don't know what is wrong with the embedded video, but it starts by itself each time I come to the page.

[Jingthing]

I will not waste my time with silly semantic games here about the Mexican Spanish cultural meaning of Puto (more like f-gg-t than a polite word for whore) which is affirmed by the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT.

I am on no crusade. That's a silly insult. I started a discussion topic on an internet forum. I accept some people don't understand and have not experienced MACHO Latino culture enough to understand the homophobic nature of the Puto slur in Mexican Spanish, but I do and the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT does.

So if you others want to continue with silly arguments that Puto is NOT an anti-gay slur in MEXICAN SPANISH, be my guest, but in my view that is OFF TOPIC to the intention of this thread.

Again, really YET AGAIN, the core question posed in this thread (which as the OP it is my privilege to structure) is IF you accept that Puto in Mexican Spanish is an anti-gay slur, why is a DOUBLE STANDARD acceptable from FIFA to enforce against racist fan expression but not anti-gay fan expression?

I have no problem with others continuing the "debate" about how they think Puto is not anti-gay in the Mexican Spanish culture, but I will have nothing to do with that unless in the massively unlikely event that someone can cite a source more credible than the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT. As it stands now and is likely to remain standing, the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT is 1000 times a better source on that than anyone posting here about it, including me.

Cheers, amigos .

Edited June 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[ToddWeston]

Anyone know where I can download the chant for my ringtone ? I tried iTunes and nothing.

Would be good for a laugh during the next match.

[Jingthing]

Anyone know where I can download the chant for my ringtone ? I tried iTunes and nothing.

Would be good for a laugh during the next match.

You just gave away a million peso idea, dude.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

FIFA regulations:

Mexico World Cup Chants: Diego Luna Condemns Homophobic 'Puto' in Soccer

FIFA statutes state that discrimination -- by players, coaches or fans -- against any country, individual or group for their race, skin color, ethnic origin, nationality, sex, language, religion or other factor is prohibited.

http://www.latinpost.com/articles/15397/20140622/mexico-world-cup-chants-diego-luna-condemns-homophobic-puto-in-soccer.htm

I don't see sexual orientation or homophobia on this list.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[sustento]

FIFA regulations:

Mexico World Cup Chants: Diego Luna Condemns Homophobic 'Puto' in Soccer

FIFA statutes state that discrimination -- by players, coaches or fans -- against any country, individual or group for their race, skin color, ethnic origin, nationality, sex, language, religion or other factor is prohibited.

http://www.latinpost.com/articles/15397/20140622/mexico-world-cup-chants-diego-luna-condemns-homophobic-puto-in-soccer.htm

I don't see sexual orientation or homophobia on this list.

Better write and tell them then

Fédération Internationale de Football Association

FIFA-Strasse 20,

P.O. Box 8044 Zurich, Switzerland

Tel : +41-(0)43 222 7777,

Fax : +41-(0)43 222 7878.

[Jingthing]

To those asserting this is no longer an issue just because of FIFA's twisted and hypocritical decision, here is more evidence that it remains quite the issue. FIFA is facing a BACKLASH. Their double standard (homophobia OK and racism not OK) has been fully EXPOSED. No, it is not over.

World Cup 2014: Fifa say Brazil and Mexico fans' faggot chant is not considered homophobicFootball's world governing body refuses to sanction South Americans despite complaints over homophobic chants during Group A meeting

...

Fifa faced a backlash from anti-discrimination campaigners on Monday after deciding not to punish Brazil and Mexico for their fans’ use of the “homophobic” word ‘puto’ during the World Cup.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10920613/World-Cup-2014-Fifa-say-Brazil-and-Mexico-fans-faggot-chant-is-not-considered-homophobic.html

Edited June 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[sustento]

One of the comments from below that article by Federico Rivas:

"Very nice by the "thought police" of the corrupt media in Britain to only put one side of the story. The word "puto" in Mexico means many things. It is not exclusively used to mean a homosexual male but all the others mentioned above.. If Mexican fans wanted to throw a homophobic chant at the opposing team's goalkeeper would be "maricon"!!! But the Mexican fans are not using that word, and "puto"!! Why? Because the goalkeeper and his team are being chicken to kickoff from their own goal spot and are afraid to dribble the ball up field in fear of losing the ball and getting scored on a counter attack. The Mexican fans are taunting the opponent's goalkeeper and his team for being chicken and afraid. That is all, people are not yelling at the goalkeeper. So there was never anything to this made up homophobic claims. FARE is really losing credibility and appears that they are trying to remain relevant and keep getting funded."

[ToddWeston]

One of the comments from below that article by Federico Rivas:

"Very nice by the "thought police" of the corrupt media in Britain to only put one side of the story. The word "puto" in Mexico means many things. It is not exclusively used to mean a homosexual male but all the others mentioned above.. If Mexican fans wanted to throw a homophobic chant at the opposing team's goalkeeper would be "maricon"!!! But the Mexican fans are not using that word, and "puto"!! Why? Because the goalkeeper and his team are being chicken to kickoff from their own goal spot and are afraid to dribble the ball up field in fear of losing the ball and getting scored on a counter attack. The Mexican fans are taunting the opponent's goalkeeper and his team for being chicken and afraid. That is all, people are not yelling at the goalkeeper. So there was never anything to this made up homophobic claims. FARE is really losing credibility and appears that they are trying to remain relevant and keep getting funded."

I remember maricon now that's the word, still not offended but that's just me, those pesky "Thought Police" I've managed to avoid.

All this noise reminds me how some were hot and bothered about the Winter Olympics, a lot more noise and thankfully that event went off without any problems from the whiners.

Edited June 28, 2014 by ToddWeston

[Jingthing]

I can well understand objections to the thought police IN GENERAL. Such as saying FIFA shouldn't enforce against ANY kind of hateful expression with ANY targets. But again, which it's now clear nobody is capable of answering, how is it acceptable to value race based hate speech as more "serious" than homophobia based hate speech?

Edited June 28, 2014 by Jingthing