Confirmed: Visa run crackdown effective from August 12, 2014: Thai Foreign Ministry

[Tatsujin]

Wow, the panic and worry is setting in . . . time for you guys to get legal and get a proper visa to run your (online) business on whilst you are here . . .

[TTom911]

These changes can only have very "visible" impact on some locations in Thailand... I can only imagine how many people, Thai locals AND falangs, adjusted their "way of life..." to these practices which seem to end now... a large number of people will be affected by this, farangs in the first place, but the ripples will go beyond that...

Edited July 1, 2014 by TTom911

[MrWorldwide]

@BudRight, I see where you're going with this, but let me turn it around a few degrees - if I have the option to stay in Thailand legally surely it's worth jumping through a few hoops to do so ? One recurring piece of advice on this forum is to tell no-one (not even family members) if there is any aspect of your life in Thailand that wouldnt bear official scrutiny or would leave you open to any form of blackmail. I met an English teacher in BKK a few years back who freely admitted that he had nothing more than the entry stamp in his passport from his last flight two years earlier - that just isnt a situation I would be happy with. I care about the rules to the extent that they can come back to bite me on the posterior - nothing more - although I agree that some here seem intent on a career in Thai Immigration.

To give you another frame of reference, its now officially 'tax time' in Australia and I have to lodge my final return. I couldnt give a flying fox about the Australian taxation system or how the money is spent, but I most definitely care about their powers of enforcement - this is one group of suits you just dont want to mess with and for me its the same with Thai Immigration. If I cant get the visa I want legally, then I'm left with a choice between Cambodia and Malaysia - I'm just not going to try to live my life in Thailand wondering if the next time I leave the country I wont be allowed back in. We can speculate about future crackdowns and postulate on Thai attitudes to foreigners, but it matters naught - their cricket pitch and they get to set the rules. Doesnt make it right, or fair, or honest any more than it makes it fair that the ATO will take one more pound of flesh from me - their rules, my money and they have the people to ensure they get what's coming to them.

( Any Aussie living in the belief that the ATO cant touch them needs to brush up on the Paul Hogan saga - he seems to have settled in the end but it took a long time, scores of lawyer$ and countless nights wondering if he'd be sent to jail at 70. No way to treat a living legend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hogan#Tax_problems )

[bananafish]

I have more than one passport/nationality. Which I suppose could be useful.

[TTom911]

why tight up the visa rules? it will just make more people overstay their visas..

Responding with a "then I just overstay" would be the most foolish thing you could come up with... someone is obviously determined "to change things"... and if you try to play clever and "just overstay" then they might throw the book at you that you might get a headache not to be forgotten anytime soon... if the tourist visa rules are being applied stricter you can bet that the overstayers will feel even more heat...

NO GOOD IDEA TO GO THE "OVERSTAY" ROUTE, SERIOUSLY, if you take my "just common sense" advice... !

Edited July 1, 2014 by TTom911

[TTom911]

I have more than one passport/nationality. Which I suppose could be useful.

that's why they consider (or even in the process of implementing) bio-id (finger print) scanners... sure some have legitly more than one passport, just make sure you are one of them... or otherwise have a very convincing explanation up your sleeve when the ever so polite immigration offices comes back and asks you "how may I address you , Sir, "Mr Bob" or Mr. Bill"...

Edited July 1, 2014 by TTom911

[baboon]

To give you another frame of reference, its now officially 'tax time' in Australia and I have to lodge my final return. I couldnt give a flying fox about the Australian taxation system or how the money is spent, but I most definitely care about their powers of enforcement - this is one group of suits you just dont want to mess with and for me its the same with Thai Immigration. If I cant get the visa I want legally, then I'm left with a choice between Cambodia and Malaysia - I'm just not going to try to live my life in Thailand wondering if the next time I leave the country I wont be allowed back in. We can speculate about future crackdowns and postulate on Thai attitudes to foreigners, but it matters naught - their cricket pitch and they get to set the rules. Doesnt make it right, or fair, or honest any more than it makes it fair that the ATO will take one more pound of flesh from me - their rules, my money and they have the people to ensure they get what's coming to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hogan#Tax_problems )

The problem is that the rules are made up as they go along by a multitude of umpires.

[JAS21]

This will be a Gold Mine for the companies issuing illegal visas ... well until that is clamped down on anyway. I understand that a certain company even advertises in Bangkok Post ... so that is where to look is needs be.

[p_brownstone]

I find it difficult to grasp the stupidity and hypocrisy of this. People working illegally! These people do not get tourist visas, rather they slide across the border, after, allegedly, paying the cops, and then head to Bangkok and work in the restaurant behind the scenes, or on fishing boats, or wherever. How many farang work illegally in Thailand? Damm few, and the work they do is not something that competes with Thais.

There is quite a significant "Industry" in Thailand providing transportation and related services to "Visa Runners", large Buses and smaller Vans are parked at several places in Bangkok (and in other major towns too I am sure) and simply wait for passengers. They are then driven to a particular Border and escorted across, sometimes entertained at a local Casino or Hotel Buffet whilst their paperwork is done then taken back into Thailand, back onto the bus and back to Bangkok (or wherever) the same day with a new Visa Exempt stamp.

There are literally dozens of these vehicles travelling every day and the vast majority of passengers are Farang - so it's simple to calculate that there are many hundreds of these "Visa Runners" in Bangkok alone, certainly not "Damn few"!

And the fact that (perhaps) "the work they do is not something that competes with Thais" is totally irrelevant too, it's still illegal.

Finally a lot of people seem unable to understand that the Visa policy of any Country can only be a "broad brush" approach and some individuals' circumstances make him ineligible for a long-term stay type Visa - for example those self proclaimed "rich men" able to retire but under 50 so they cannot obtain a retirement visa here. Well, tough luck old chap, that's the rule - but if you look around there are other legal options available.

Patrick

[harrry]

The letter refers to the "visa exemption scheme". This is not the same as possessing a tourist visa, so it would appear not refer to tourist visas or multiple entry tourist visas.

The letter is issued to Embassies and Consulates, and they have nothing to do with the "visa exemption scheme". It is likely to somehow address the issuing of tourist visas as well as visa exemption, as we understand it, and as The Immigration Bureau understands it.

But the info is not clear IMO. Hopefully we will get a clarification.

Note that it is not addresses to Thai Embassies and Consulates. It specifically refers to In Thailand. It looks to be a letter replying to expressions of concern (or at least questions) by the officials of foreign embassies in Thailand.

[Oziex1]

So what is the criteria for the issue of back to back tourist visa, not issued after 1 day 2 days two weeks?

I am referring to the Tourist Visa not the visa exempt 30 day on arrival. At the risk of sounding pedantic I would urge all posters to have a clear understanding of the difference between the two, and stop referring to the visa exempt as a tourist visa.

The op seems pretty clear to me, if you don't understand it stay home!

[TTom911]

having seen references to the Thai immigration's plans of introducing fingerprint scanners...

...if any immigration would find out you have more than one passport, whatever passport you would choose to present, they will certainly "pick the one THEY like"... meaning, you would still NOT get into the country if any of the passport identifying you as the entering person has too many/the wrong stamps...

The number of passports don't matter at all if they can either bio-identify you or find out about your multiple passports otherwise...

Edited July 1, 2014 by TTom911

[Living in a cartoon]

@lanatlarge:

"I mean guys supporting a Thai wife, her children from her first, Thai, marriage, and her family, and 1/2 the village."

Sounds like half a village is in danger of losing their idiot.

Sorry man, couldn't resist.

[Tolley]

So will people who fly in regularly to Thailand and get 30 day stamps be affected by the new rules or is it only land border crosses.

Lots of oil workers, Aussie FIFOs will be affected if they are monitoring at airports.

[p_brownstone]

The letter refers to the "visa exemption scheme". This is not the same as possessing a tourist visa, so it would appear not refer to tourist visas or multiple entry tourist visas.

The letter is issued to Embassies and Consulates, and they have nothing to do with the "visa exemption scheme". It is likely to somehow address the issuing of tourist visas as well as visa exemption, as we understand it, and as The Immigration Bureau understands it.

But the info is not clear IMO. Hopefully we will get a clarification.

Note that it is not addresses to Thai Embassies and Consulates. It specifically refers to In Thailand. It looks to be a letter replying to expressions of concern (or at least questions) by the officials of foreign embassies in Thailand.

The various Embassies and Consulates in Bangkok would, I imagine, be the point of contact for such announcements and the MFA is then expecting them to pass on the new Policy to all that Country's Embassies and Consulates worldwide.

I can't imagine that the MFA would do a worldwide mailing themselves.

Patrick

[MrWorldwide]

So what is the criteria for the issue of back to back tourist visa, not issued after 1 day 2 days two weeks?

I am referring to the Tourist Visa not the visa exempt 30 day on arrival. At the risk of sounding pedantic I would urge all posters to have a clear understanding of the difference between the two, and stop referring to the visa exempt as a tourist visa.

The op seems pretty clear to me, if you don't understand it stay home!

Home is Pattaya and I have a very clear understanding of the difference between the two. See you in Savannakhet next Monday morning

Hee hee, ho ho, it's off to Laos we go

And if it's all good, we come back with a Non-O !

I'll leave the August 12 deadline and the rhetoric surrounding it to the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse - plenty of time to don a sackcloth and procure some ashes later in the year. Let's get what we can and get back to enjoying life in Thailand.

[Mango Bob]

Good, either get the proper visa or stay home.

[TTom911]

So will people who fly in regularly to Thailand and get 30 day stamps be affected by the new rules or is it only land border crosses.

Lots of oil workers, Aussie FIFOs will be affected if they are monitoring at airports.

it can only have HUGE ripple effects if they all of a sudden apply the rules... too many people for too long a time "adjusted to the old ways"... I can even imagine that getting visas at embassies might become a very time consuming exercise as they would be flooded with visa applications... all this, as clean, simple and understandable it may look at first glance, can have more serious side effects than people imagine...

Somehow to me this is emblematic for what is ahead of Thailand in the years to come, I believe... it's not gonna be easy (some might say "not possible...") to fix a system, run on dodgy practices everywhere, with a simple stroke of administration... Each attempt to fix one thing will cause upheaval somewhere... it's a tangled mess...

[Jdiddy]

Kind of annoying for people like me who have the funds to do 12 month trips here but no desire to marry, study or work, just work on fitness, health and drink sugarcane and coconut juice

@BudRight, I see where you're going with this, but let me turn it around a few degrees - if I have the option to stay in Thailand legally surely it's worth jumping through a few hoops to do so ? One recurring piece of advice on this forum is to tell no-one (not even family members) if there is any aspect of your life in Thailand that wouldnt bear official scrutiny or would leave you open to any form of blackmail. I met an English teacher in BKK a few years back who freely admitted that he had nothing more than the entry stamp in his passport from his last flight two years earlier - that just isnt a situation I would be happy with. I care about the rules to the extent that they can come back to bite me on the posterior - nothing more - although I agree that some here seem intent on a career in Thai Immigration.

To give you another frame of reference, its now officially 'tax time' in Australia and I have to lodge my final return. I couldnt give a flying fox about the Australian taxation system or how the money is spent, but I most definitely care about their powers of enforcement - this is one group of suits you just dont want to mess with and for me its the same with Thai Immigration. If I cant get the visa I want legally, then I'm left with a choice between Cambodia and Malaysia - I'm just not going to try to live my life in Thailand wondering if the next time I leave the country I wont be allowed back in. We can speculate about future crackdowns and postulate on Thai attitudes to foreigners, but it matters naught - their cricket pitch and they get to set the rules. Doesnt make it right, or fair, or honest any more than it makes it fair that the ATO will take one more pound of flesh from me - their rules, my money and they have the people to ensure they get what's coming to them.

( Any Aussie living in the belief that the ATO cant touch them needs to brush up on the Paul Hogan saga - he seems to have settled in the end but it took a long time, scores of lawyer$ and countless nights wondering if he'd be sent to jail at 70. No way to treat a living legend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hogan#Tax_problems )

The Ato besides from not actually being a legal entity https://www.google.com.my/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=qhyyU5PRN9OgugS0u4LYBw&url=http://basic-fraud.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2010/10/The-ATO-is-not-a-legal-entity.pdf&cd=5&ved=0CCUQFjAE&usg=AFQjCNGaNSNgn21LJ8EmRD7L3JVoWC-Lww

...are actually pretty easy to ignore and fly under their radar unless of course your Paul Hogan who "owed" them millions and had a departure prohibition order slapped on him so he had to settle with them

[Pattszero]

The trash needs to be put out of Thailand, there is more undesirables in Thailand in the last few years than ever.

Mafia and scumbags running money lending schemes as well to desperates who cant show the funds in the bank to renew their visa. Color blind police as well, you cant tell me that 20 African girls standing in Nana area behind a policeman in suhkhomvit RD plying trade have work permits.

There is now to much scum in Thailand and they ruin it for the good people who just want to relax and enjoy the scenery.

If you get the right visa before you leave for Thailand no problems the embassy here in NZ has always been helpful and I've never had a problem only the dubious will continue to ruin it for the good people.

What makes you think getting a visa elevates you above trash?

I know wife beaters, scum sex tourists and rampant alcoholics that are on retirrment visas.

Having a visa does not indicate class, you know.

[stevenl]

I did notice that each time(2006, 2010 and now), the army or democrats grabbed the power, few weeks later they did tigthen the rules....

Maybe check the history of this announcement, and you'll notice your statement is this time not correct.

[baboon]

Good, either get the proper visa or stay home.

I have already pointed out a major flaw in that 'argument' in this thread.

[dcpo]

Wow, the panic and worry is setting in . . . time for you guys to get legal and get a proper visa to run your (online) business on whilst you are here . . .

What is the legal and proper visa for running an online business?

[kingalfred]

The party's over guys. No more back to back tourist visas in neighbouring countries.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Pattszero]

So will people who fly in regularly to Thailand and get 30 day stamps be affected by the new rules or is it only land border crosses.

Lots of oil workers, Aussie FIFOs will be affected if they are monitoring at airports.

Yes, they are affected - some of those guys are in for a shock.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Pattszero

[stevenl]

Wow, the panic and worry is setting in . . . time for you guys to get legal and get a proper visa to run your (online) business on whilst you are here . . .

What is the legal and proper visa for running an online business?

non-immigrant B plus work permit.

[stevenl]

So will people who fly in regularly to Thailand and get 30 day stamps be affected by the new rules or is it only land border crosses.

Lots of oil workers, Aussie FIFOs will be affected if they are monitoring at airports.

Yes, they are sffected - some of those guys are in for a shock.

They are not doing out-in runs, so don't think they'll be affected. But getting a proper visa meant for living in Thailand would be a good idea in stead of tourist visas/visa exempt entries.

Edited July 1, 2014 by stevenl

[phuketrichard]

So will people who fly in regularly to Thailand and get 30 day stamps be affected by the new rules or is it only land border crosses.

Lots of oil workers, Aussie FIFOs will be affected if they are monitoring at airports.

Yes, they are sffected - some of those guys are in for a shock.

i dont think they will be affected at all;

they are NOT"visa runners" they come into Thailand stay from 1 week to 4 , spend their hard earned $$$ an leave for 4 weeks to ------

they are NOT VISA RUNNERS nor are they abusing what the visa exempt is for

What is "living here" yes they might have houses/wife's/families but they are not here full time.

I guess its a fine line an we will have to wait and see.

I can't see them stopping these guys

Edited July 1, 2014 by phuketrichard

[TTom911]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So will people who fly in regularly to Thailand and get 30 day stamps be affected by the new rules or is it only land border crosses.

Lots of oil workers, Aussie FIFOs will be affected if they are monitoring at airports.

Yes, they are sffected - some of those guys are in for a shock.

i dont think they will be affected at all;

they are NOT"visa runners" they come into Thailand stay from 1 week to 4 , spend their hard earned $$$ an leave for 4 weeks to ------

they are NOT VISA RUNNERS nor are they abusing what the visa exempt is for

What is "living here" yes they might have houses/wife's/families but they are not here full time.

I guess its a fine line an we will have to wait and see.

I can't see them stopping these guys

they are not "staying in Thailand", they are working.

Sure, assuming all the paperwork is in place (WP and visa) then they will not be affected, why would they...

But that the question was raised here indicates to me that in some (many?) cases the "paper work" is NOT in place and people just hopped in and out as it was so much easier for everyone (including the Thai companies hiring them)...

[digibum]

There are many people over 50 in Thailand with a retirement visa that have very little funds so it annoys me to hear all these experts harping on about how it won't affect them . I am here on a tourist visa , I arrived on a triple entry , went to Laos got a double entry and recently Hanoi with my Thai gf but would only be issued a single entry.

The thing that annoys me is I have a lot better finances than a lot of people on retirement visas but I'm not 50 for another 9 months so it's possible I will have to leave the country in August when my current visa ends.

Why does it bother you that some people followed the rules and won't be impacted? I'm not saying you have to take glee in their misfortune but it's pretty shortsighted to bet your retirement on a loophole in the Thai immigration law. Hell, it's shortsighted to base your retirement on any Thai law. The people who have gone through the process, done things the right way, and are being rewarded, should be somewhat happy that their faith in the rule of law paid off.

And why are you annoyed that you have to wait another 9 months to be eligible for a retirement visa? It's not like that law changed. Oh, or are you just annoyed that Plan A, take advantage of a loophole in Thai immigration law, isn't viable anymore so you have to do it the way you would likely have to do it in most other countries, and wait?

You obviously missed the point I was trying to make , I know many people that have retirement visas illegally , I.e pay someone approx 15,000 and receive a visa because they have insufficient funds and or income to get one legally.

I on the other hand have been doing every thing legally and just trying to get by till I'm 50 , I don't want to pay 500,000 to get an elite card when I've only got 9 months to wait and also things are changing all the time so could possibly lose a lot of money

I missed nothing. I understand your point. I don't understand why you're annoyed because the country has a very reasonable requirement that you be 50 years of age before they grant you a retirement visa. I don't understand why you're upset that you can't live in Thailand for 9 months on a tourist visa.

Nobody said you have to get an elite card. You just have to wait 9 months until you're 50. It's not an unreasonable request by the Thai government so quit pissing and moaning about it.

The age for the retirement visa has been 50 for as long as I can remember. It's not like that fact sneaked up on you. It's just that you thought you could take advantage of loopholes in Thai immigration law until then. Oh well, that's just how life goes sometimes. Get over it.

And I do not find joy in your situation but I do find great pain in hearing you rant about it. You're not the first guy to have their plans ruined in Thailand and you won't be the last.