transam Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 to thiose naive enough to think that company info is a good source let me reiterate my post on that. I have also been unable to find any independent (or otherwise) paper that bunks or debunks these "V" fuels. the claims made by Shell and other companies are so nebulous as to be risible....... read the company slurbs - they claim vague benefits such as "cleaning" but don't point out that these also exist in their "ordinary" fuels. There is NO COMPARISON or direct claims only implication and the gullible are invited to draw inferences... Shell do sell a basic diesel similar price to others at their stations as well as V-Power. For their claims of additional additives and what they do I feel a couple of baht extra is well worth it. My truck loves the stuff, yes it is chipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchClark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 to thiose naive enough to think that company info is a good source let me reiterate my post on that. I have also been unable to find any independent (or otherwise) paper that bunks or debunks these "V" fuels. the claims made by Shell and other companies are so nebulous as to be risible....... read the company slurbs - they claim vague benefits such as "cleaning" but don't point out that these also exist in their "ordinary" fuels. There is NO COMPARISON or direct claims only implication and the gullible are invited to draw inferences... If you want to learn about "V" Power or similar synthetic diesel products then research Gas-To-Liquid (GTL) diesel fuel. You can find all the various Pros & Cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 to thiose naive enough to think that company info is a good source let me reiterate my post on that. I have also been unable to find any independent (or otherwise) paper that bunks or debunks these "V" fuels. the claims made by Shell and other companies are so nebulous as to be risible....... read the company slurbs - they claim vague benefits such as "cleaning" but don't point out that these also exist in their "ordinary" fuels. There is NO COMPARISON or direct claims only implication and the gullible are invited to draw inferences... Shell do sell a basic diesel similar price to others at their stations as well as V-Power. For their claims of additional additives and what they do I feel a couple of baht extra is well worth it. My truck loves the stuff, yes it is chipped. I'm well aware that the fuel companies sell a "standard" diesel.....these too have additives etc.....the implication is that your vehicle will not run so well on this product. Is it faulty then? Is thew manufacturer of the vehicle at fault - they all know what "standard" diesel is......???? I motor very closely he performance of my vehicles, both on the computer and keep continuous records of fuel consumption. One turbo on buying new I used V-power for about 6 months before giving up and switching to "standard" fuel...i was unable to find any significant difference. however I don't think a personal experience on one vehicle is conclusive in any way at all.....what I've bee trying to find is INDEPENDENT scientific evidence that gives any substance to the already nebulous claims of the companies. BTW - You may have noticed that Ferrari FI use v power as a sponsor. Well let me give you a thought from a member of that team.... Sponsorship from any product is worth millions; As long as it doesn't actually slow the car down, we'll stick their name on the side and might even use it....... As my vehicles are machines and don't have emotions that my diagnostic software ca detect, I would not be in a position to say whether they were happier or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Fuel additives have had a long a chequered career. They constantly fight a battle with advertising standards over their claims....can anyone remember the case against STP back in the 60s or 70s, which basically showed it was nothing more than thick oil? Despite being repeatedly shown to be of little of or no use, the oil companies and their advertising executives are well aware of the benefits that can still be gained from giving fuel a new "science-sounding" name....there are still enough gullible people with short memories out there to make it worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Some have Durex as Sponsors, thats ......Em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchClark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Fuel additives have had a long a chequered career. They constantly fight a battle with advertising standards over their claims....can anyone remember the case against STP back in the 60s or 70s, which basically showed it was nothing more than thick oil? Despite being repeatedly shown to be of little of or no use, the oil companies and their advertising executives are well aware of the benefits that can still be gained from giving fuel a new "science-sounding" name....there are still enough gullible people with short memories out there to make it worthwhile. I agree, the additives found in todays fuels are a far cry from those early days you mention. Particularly with these synthetic diesel fuels and motor oils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Fuel additives have had a long a chequered career. They constantly fight a battle with advertising standards over their claims....can anyone remember the case against STP back in the 60s or 70s, which basically showed it was nothing more than thick oil? Despite being repeatedly shown to be of little of or no use, the oil companies and their advertising executives are well aware of the benefits that can still be gained from giving fuel a new "science-sounding" name....there are still enough gullible people with short memories out there to make it worthwhile. Your sermon is all good. The lack of class action lawsuits or consumer protection wrist slapping against said multi nationals for fraud does however not strengthen your argument imo. Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Fuel additives have had a long a chequered career. They constantly fight a battle with advertising standards over their claims....can anyone remember the case against STP back in the 60s or 70s, which basically showed it was nothing more than thick oil? Despite being repeatedly shown to be of little of or no use, the oil companies and their advertising executives are well aware of the benefits that can still be gained from giving fuel a new "science-sounding" name....there are still enough gullible people with short memories out there to make it worthwhile. Your sermon is all good. The lack of class action lawsuits or consumer protection wrist slapping against said multi nationals for fraud does however not strengthen your argument imo. Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app lack of class action? Really - i think you are simply looking at it from a US perspective and have made an assumption about the "lack" of legal action. In Europe there doesn't need to be litigation....that often requires damages to be incurred, basically they withdraw there comments and product after a qui9et waring from such people as fair trading who point out their claims have no supporting evidence. End of....until they come up with another campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Fuel additives have had a long a chequered career. They constantly fight a battle with advertising standards over their claims....can anyone remember the case against STP back in the 60s or 70s, which basically showed it was nothing more than thick oil? Despite being repeatedly shown to be of little of or no use, the oil companies and their advertising executives are well aware of the benefits that can still be gained from giving fuel a new "science-sounding" name....there are still enough gullible people with short memories out there to make it worthwhile. I agree, the additives found in todays fuels are a far cry from those early days you mention. Particularly with these synthetic diesel fuels and motor oils. ....but like everyone else you cannot supply one piece of independent scientific evidence to suggest that they are in any way effective in diesel at the pump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 We all have fallen for it, at 17 i reconed anyone who didnt put Molyslip in the Gearbox was a retard,SPP, Redex, you name it ,i bought it hook line n sinker.A Peco Exhaust Booster was the biggest Con of all.The White Circles on the Doors were the only thing that added real power,along with stik on number plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Fuel additives have had a long a chequered career. They constantly fight a battle with advertising standards over their claims....can anyone remember the case against STP back in the 60s or 70s, which basically showed it was nothing more than thick oil? Despite being repeatedly shown to be of little of or no use, the oil companies and their advertising executives are well aware of the benefits that can still be gained from giving fuel a new "science-sounding" name....there are still enough gullible people with short memories out there to make it worthwhile. I agree, the additives found in todays fuels are a far cry from those early days you mention. Particularly with these synthetic diesel fuels and motor oils. ....but like everyone else you cannot supply one piece of independent scientific evidence to suggest that they are in any way effective in diesel at the pump. Wil, I think you will find that most people don't disagree that there is a certain amount of "Pumping Up" going on in the advertising industry as a whole and the general public (well some I guess) don't take everything at face value. I remember growing up and they (some national health organization) said eating bacon and eggs +++ was a healthy breakfast - only to find out decades later that people were falling over stone dead from it Go into any convenience store and you will see healthy / beauty blah blah drinks for this in that - pure BS I guess. Now back to diesel, if someone feels like it's worth spending an extra few baht on some special label brand, so be it. Maybe they just like to be seen filling up at the vpower filler instead of the normal grade lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Some have Durex as Sponsors, thats ......Em. .......and there's plenty of evidence to suggest that they work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Effective W/Pops , even some ECU Tweaks show an increase that hard to measure, yet alone a bit of added Sulphur. All in the mind Mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Fuel additives have had a long a chequered career. They constantly fight a battle with advertising standards over their claims....can anyone remember the case against STP back in the 60s or 70s, which basically showed it was nothing more than thick oil? Despite being repeatedly shown to be of little of or no use, the oil companies and their advertising executives are well aware of the benefits that can still be gained from giving fuel a new "science-sounding" name....there are still enough gullible people with short memories out there to make it worthwhile. I agree, the additives found in todays fuels are a far cry from those early days you mention. Particularly with these synthetic diesel fuels and motor oils. ....but like everyone else you cannot supply one piece of independent scientific evidence to suggest that they are in any way effective in diesel at the pump. Wil, I think you will find that most people don't disagree that there is a certain amount of "Pumping Up" going on in the advertising industry as a whole and the general public (well some I guess) don't take everything at face value. I remember growing up and they (some national health organization) said eating bacon and eggs +++ was a healthy breakfast - only to find out decades later that people were falling over stone dead from it Go into any convenience store and you will see healthy / beauty blah blah drinks for this in that - pure BS I guess. Now back to diesel, if someone feels like it's worth spending an extra few baht on some special label brand, so be it. Maybe they just like to be seen filling up at the vpower filler instead of the normal grade lol Yes - so long as they are aware especially in Thailand that companies can make a lot of claims that sound very convincing without actually having any substance......so what they are paying for is....? well what ARE they paying for. It is quite likely that the fuel itself costs little or nothing more to produce, it's just a way, in Thailand, of selling diesel over the government's 30 baht per litre price cap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Oh James, blame Bacon and Eggs killing Folk on Medical Science advances. Runts died early at one time, now they keep em live till they eat a Mans Breakfast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Effective W/Pops , even some ECU Tweaks show an increase that hard to measure, yet alone a bit of added Sulphur. All in the mind Mate. Before condoms, sulphur was a cure for syphilis too...... but that was supported by evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Why do some people feel the need to totally dominate a thread? @ wilcopops, we know how you feel about it, knew already 10 posts ago. What is the point of keeping up with it, except irritating the shit out of people? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchClark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Fuel additives have had a long a chequered career. They constantly fight a battle with advertising standards over their claims....can anyone remember the case against STP back in the 60s or 70s, which basically showed it was nothing more than thick oil? Despite being repeatedly shown to be of little of or no use, the oil companies and their advertising executives are well aware of the benefits that can still be gained from giving fuel a new "science-sounding" name....there are still enough gullible people with short memories out there to make it worthwhile. I agree, the additives found in todays fuels are a far cry from those early days you mention. Particularly with these synthetic diesel fuels and motor oils. ....but like everyone else you cannot supply one piece of independent scientific evidence to suggest that they are in any way effective in diesel at the pump. Whoa, hoss, leave me out of your pi**ing match.I simply volunteered a more generic search query than "V" Power since someone was asking. GTF. Its apples to oranges against Dino fuels and, yes, it costs more to produce. Read up on it yourself. You can't have a real discussion about the topic of synthetic diesel without acknowledging the presence and absolute necessity of fuel additives and conditioners. Thats why they add them at the refinery. I know what I know and it makes no difference to me what you want to believe or put in your truck. Cheers Edited July 11, 2014 by CharlieH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 If you post I may well respond.............. as I said ALL diesels have additives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 WARNING: dicuss the topic, agree disagree or agree to disagree but dont make personal remarks. 7) Respect fellow members by posting in a civil manner: do not launch personal attacks, or be hateful or insulting towards other members, ie No flaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 For those of you like me who are not a chemist - a good read on the subject is premium diesel worth it... http://www.oilem.com/premium-diesel-versus-standard-diesel-fuel-2/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchClark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 For those of you like me who are not a chemist - a good read on the subject is premium diesel worth it... http://www.oilem.com/premium-diesel-versus-standard-diesel-fuel-2/ BKKJames, I just dug up some additional info and this website is sponsored by the "Additive" Industry. In other words, the bastards are trying to hide that they are supplying biased claims. (8) Disclaimer (Special) Our site provides various product reviews including product reviews of items available from other suppliers. We may base our reviews, in part, on the product description and related information provided by the original manufacturers. The reviews you read may have been originally written by distributors, manufacturers, third party reviewers or by this website. You agree to hold us harmless regarding any and all product claims regardless of the source of such claims. Product claims may be based in whole or in part upon claims issued by third parties. All warranties and guarantees regarding any product mentioned or reviewed are provided solely by the original manufacturer. You agree, as a condition of accessing our product reviews, to hold us harmless regarding any claim of injury or defect from your purchase and use of any product that we review or otherwise mention. All issues of product liability are strictly between the purchaser and or user of the products mentioned herein and the original manufacturer. Please consult an independent consumers guide before purchasing or using any product mentioned or reviewed herein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 For those of you like me who are not a chemist - a good read on the subject is premium diesel worth it... http://www.oilem.com/premium-diesel-versus-standard-diesel-fuel-2/ BKKJames,I just dug up some additional info and this website is sponsored by the "Additive" Industry. In other words, the bastards are trying to hide that they are supplying biased claims. (8) Disclaimer (Special) Our site provides various product reviews including product reviews of items available from other suppliers. We may base our reviews, in part, on the product description and related information provided by the original manufacturers. The reviews you read may have been originally written by distributors, manufacturers, third party reviewers or by this website. You agree to hold us harmless regarding any and all product claims regardless of the source of such claims. Product claims may be based in whole or in part upon claims issued by third parties. All warranties and guarantees regarding any product mentioned or reviewed are provided solely by the original manufacturer. You agree, as a condition of accessing our product reviews, to hold us harmless regarding any claim of injury or defect from your purchase and use of any product that we review or otherwise mention. All issues of product liability are strictly between the purchaser and or user of the products mentioned herein and the original manufacturer. Please consult an independent consumers guide before purchasing or using any product mentioned or reviewed herein. No doubt as the pages I saw did have an awful lot of recommendations for a certain brand of additives it seems. Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 If you cant stop the petty bickering and personal comments/attacks the thread will be closed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bkkjames Posted July 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2014 If you cant stop the petty bickering and personal comments/attacks the thread will be closed. I thought we had? the above posts show no signs of bickering.... I found some website - Clutch found some interesting info about bias in it potentially, I agree with him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Oilem - bias or not the claims for premium diesel seem singularly unimpressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchClark Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Oilem - bias or not the claims for premium diesel seem singularly unimpressive. If you are a seller of retail fuel "additives" and a new fuel is marketed that promises to do many of the things your "additives" supposedly do then people stop buying your additives. In other words, there is an incentive for Oilem to come out against Premium fuels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Remember the days when every now and again you would shove an expensive bottle of injector cleaner in the tank, well I believe the premium diesel has that stuff in the fuel, so no need for anything else. Without doubt my truck is more responsive with the V-Power. You can be sure that if there was no difference I would say so here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Remember the days when every now and again you would shove an expensive bottle of injector cleaner in the tank, well I believe the premium diesel has that stuff in the fuel, so no need for anything else. Without doubt my truck is more responsive with the V-Power. You can be sure that if there was no difference I would say so here... Exactly it's not like any of us has a vested interest in stating such Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka17 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Hi. 50 odd yrs ago. we used to put 200ml of two stroke oil into an 80 ltr fuel tank. It DOES make your diesel run smoother\quieter. Extra mileage. ????? who knows, I never noticed (Diesel LandRovers. Bush. and towing trailers.) I think it's worth putting a can of Injector cleaner through the tank first though to clear some gunk. The diesel refining we get here inAust. is several levels of refining DOWN on what they sell in US and Europe.. Same with petrol powered. Old\stale petrol in tank. Add a 1\2 cup of Metho. Dissolves and burns out any water. while upping the Octane back to nearer normal again. I drop some in my diesel tank occasionally too. for the water dispersant quality. Also. Wife's Honda runs better with extra 80 plus km's per tank. Over the last 6 yrs..('08 model) when using the 98 octane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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